A while back I posted about my experience building a smallish
heat treating oven ( read it @
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...0?&q=rashid111
)

Upgraded the same days ago to a larger size (2x increase), about 18"
long, 4.5" wide, 4" tall. Welded (brazed) a cage, the rest of
construction is
the same: firebricks, HD mortar, tin. Also used ceramic insulating
blanket this time around for better insulation.

Wired my breaker panel for a dedicated 240V circuit. 120V won't get
you to reqd temperatures in this size oven in any reasonable amt of
time. Resonable for heat treating of metals that is, it will be just
fine for ceramics. For example, after pre-heating A2 to 1400F, you want
to go to 1750F in minutes, not 1/2 of hour (heavy decarb, scale will
result if you do).

Kept all of the old electronics: K-couple, Omega PID controller, SSR.

Went with Kanthal A1 (resistancewire.com). 17 gage wire, .432 Ohm/foot.
They do have a min order of $50, but this much wire will last you a
lifetime (or, if you can wind spirals, you can try Ebay'ing the excess
to pay for the whole thing ).

Really like the results - the oven goes to 1200F in about a minute !
I guess larger surface area of wire pays off here.

Will see if I can flood the interior with argon to eliminate need
for wrapping up steel in foil ( 1095 and likes, that harden @ 1450F,
wont need it much, but A2 and other tool steel that need to go close to
1800F and above, will loose carbon like crazy at this temp). I
exchanged emails with a well-known knife maker that uses this
particular method with great success.

You'd want to bring the oven to 1850F on first firing and hold it there
for 30m to have Kanthal build nice'n'strong layer of Aluminum Oxide -
it will protect the element for quite some time. Be aware that the wire
will become very brittle past that firing, so make sure the spiral is
placed into the groove the right way before you fire it up.

Like the previous time, I used my mini lathe to make the spiral, total
of 12.5 Ohm, so it stays a bit under 20A load.

Easy does it, slowest RPM, work gloves, go 20-30 turns at a time,
release/unwind more wire, repeat. The 17 gage Kanthal is real easy to
work with, but gloves are a must, so is the eye protection.

Measure the perimiter of the GROOVE and stretch the coil to be that
exact length. Easiest way - crimp one end of spiral in a vise, pull
the other end, while having tape measure extended alongside. This way
you get an even stretch - as opposed to stretching a small section at a
time with your hands.

As you tuck the spiral into the groove, double check to make sure there
are no shorts between coils. Also, there should be no stress
in the spiral - especially compression-type. As the spiral softens
when it heats up, such stress can cause shorts.


Have the groove made at an angle, so that the spiral doesn't fall out.
I hand-guided firebricks into the end mill at slowest rpm, while
tilting
one side of the brick to get that angle. I put a piece of 1/2" thich
piece wood under one edge of the brick to accomplish that. Mini mill of
course.

Hey Rashid,

Pix at 11?? Be nice if you do!

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On 23 Sep 2005 17:04:11 -0700, "rashid111" wrote:

A while back I posted about my experience building a smallish
heat treating oven ( read it @
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...0?&q=rashid111
)

Upgraded the same days ago to a larger size (2x increase), about 18"
long, 4.5" wide, 4" tall. Welded (brazed) a cage, the rest of
construction is
the same: firebricks, HD mortar, tin. Also used ceramic insulating
blanket this time around for better insulation.

Wired my breaker panel for a dedicated 240V circuit. 120V won't get
you to reqd temperatures in this size oven in any reasonable amt of
time. Resonable for heat treating of metals that is, it will be just
fine for ceramics. For example, after pre-heating A2 to 1400F, you want
to go to 1750F in minutes, not 1/2 of hour (heavy decarb, scale will
result if you do).

Kept all of the old electronics: K-couple, Omega PID controller, SSR.

Went with Kanthal A1 (resistancewire.com). 17 gage wire, .432 Ohm/foot.
They do have a min order of $50, but this much wire will last you a
lifetime (or, if you can wind spirals, you can try Ebay'ing the excess
to pay for the whole thing ).

Really like the results - the oven goes to 1200F in about a minute !
I guess larger surface area of wire pays off here.

Will see if I can flood the interior with argon to eliminate need
for wrapping up steel in foil ( 1095 and likes, that harden @ 1450F,
wont need it much, but A2 and other tool steel that need to go close to
1800F and above, will loose carbon like crazy at this temp). I
exchanged emails with a well-known knife maker that uses this
particular method with great success.

You'd want to bring the oven to 1850F on first firing and hold it there
for 30m to have Kanthal build nice'n'strong layer of Aluminum Oxide -
it will protect the element for quite some time. Be aware that the wire
will become very brittle past that firing, so make sure the spiral is
placed into the groove the right way before you fire it up.

Like the previous time, I used my mini lathe to make the spiral, total
of 12.5 Ohm, so it stays a bit under 20A load.

Easy does it, slowest RPM, work gloves, go 20-30 turns at a time,
release/unwind more wire, repeat. The 17 gage Kanthal is real easy to
work with, but gloves are a must, so is the eye protection.

Measure the perimiter of the GROOVE and stretch the coil to be that
exact length. Easiest way - crimp one end of spiral in a vise, pull
the other end, while having tape measure extended alongside. This way
you get an even stretch - as opposed to stretching a small section at a
time with your hands.

As you tuck the spiral into the groove, double check to make sure there
are no shorts between coils. Also, there should be no stress
in the spiral - especially compression-type. As the spiral softens
when it heats up, such stress can cause shorts.


Have the groove made at an angle, so that the spiral doesn't fall out.
I hand-guided firebricks into the end mill at slowest rpm, while
tilting
one side of the brick to get that angle. I put a piece of 1/2" thich
piece wood under one edge of the brick to accomplish that. Mini mill of
course.

Lotta words, few pix .. :-(

rashid111 wrote:

A while back I posted about my experience building a smallish
heat treating oven ( read it @
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...0?&q=rashid111
)

Upgraded the same days ago to a larger size (2x increase), about 18"
long, 4.5" wide, 4" tall. Welded (brazed) a cage, the rest of
construction is
the same: firebricks, HD mortar, tin. Also used ceramic insulating
blanket this time around for better insulation.

Wired my breaker panel for a dedicated 240V circuit. 120V won't get
you to reqd temperatures in this size oven in any reasonable amt of
time. Resonable for heat treating of metals that is, it will be just
fine for ceramics. For example, after pre-heating A2 to 1400F, you want
to go to 1750F in minutes, not 1/2 of hour (heavy decarb, scale will
result if you do).

Kept all of the old electronics: K-couple, Omega PID controller, SSR.

Went with Kanthal A1 (resistancewire.com). 17 gage wire, .432 Ohm/foot.
They do have a min order of $50, but this much wire will last you a
lifetime (or, if you can wind spirals, you can try Ebay'ing the excess
to pay for the whole thing ).

Really like the results - the oven goes to 1200F in about a minute !
I guess larger surface area of wire pays off here.

Will see if I can flood the interior with argon to eliminate need
for wrapping up steel in foil ( 1095 and likes, that harden @ 1450F,
wont need it much, but A2 and other tool steel that need to go close to
1800F and above, will loose carbon like crazy at this temp). I
exchanged emails with a well-known knife maker that uses this
particular method with great success.

You'd want to bring the oven to 1850F on first firing and hold it there
for 30m to have Kanthal build nice'n'strong layer of Aluminum Oxide -
it will protect the element for quite some time. Be aware that the wire
will become very brittle past that firing, so make sure the spiral is
placed into the groove the right way before you fire it up.

Like the previous time, I used my mini lathe to make the spiral, total
of 12.5 Ohm, so it stays a bit under 20A load.

Easy does it, slowest RPM, work gloves, go 20-30 turns at a time,
release/unwind more wire, repeat. The 17 gage Kanthal is real easy to
work with, but gloves are a must, so is the eye protection.

Measure the perimiter of the GROOVE and stretch the coil to be that
exact length. Easiest way - crimp one end of spiral in a vise, pull
the other end, while having tape measure extended alongside. This way
you get an even stretch - as opposed to stretching a small section at a
time with your hands.

As you tuck the spiral into the groove, double check to make sure there
are no shorts between coils. Also, there should be no stress
in the spiral - especially compression-type. As the spiral softens
when it heats up, such stress can cause shorts.


Have the groove made at an angle, so that the spiral doesn't fall out.
I hand-guided firebricks into the end mill at slowest rpm, while
tilting
one side of the brick to get that angle. I put a piece of 1/2" thich
piece wood under one edge of the brick to accomplish that. Mini mill of
course.

rashid111 wrote:

Really like the results - the oven goes to 1200F in about a minute !

I really like your work! But also, I really would like to see some pics
of what you did! Also, a BOM etc. I really would like to build an oven
like yours.

Please!


TIA,
Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de

"rashid111" wrote:

A while back I posted about my experience building a smallish
heat treating oven ( read it @
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...0?&q=rashid111
)

Once upon a time I passed on a 20.00 heat treat oven. It was fine, my
uncle used it just before my plant went bankrupt. I wish I'd have
bought it from the guy that only wanted the table it was sitting on
during the auction.

As others mentioned, please post pictures. If you can't as in no
webserver, email me some and I'll host them for you on my server
space.

Thanks,

Wes

--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Alpha Charlie Echo Golf Romeo Oscar Paul dot Charlie Charlie
Lycos address is a spam trap.

Pics are he

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/sh...hp?tid/752668/

And somewhat of a BOM:

So now here's what you'd need to build the thing:

- Firebricks: K23 @ your local ceramics store. About 20 to be safe.

- Home Depot high temp mortar: 2 tubes, @ $4 or so per (it is in the
caulks section, blackish tube, rated to something like 2000F)

- Omega temperature controller or alike: Ebay,
for $40 or thereabouts you should be able to score one any day of the
week

here's an example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Universal-Digital-PID-Temperat...

Omega is most widely recognized name in temp controllers, even though
they mostly OEM other makes


- High temp K-type thermocouple: $4 is about going price on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/Type-K-High-Temperature-Thermo...


- an SSR, a Solid State Relay:


$10, or less if you're willing to play ebay game:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CRYDOM-SSR-Solid-State-Relay-2...


- some heating wire, Kanthal A1 strongly preferred


Here's how it all works, simplified:

1 the wire heats up the interior

2 when SSR relay lets current flow through the wire

3 when controller tells it to let the current flow

4 when controller senses, from the thermocouple temperature probe, that
temperature needs to go up

5 to reach whatever temperature you set up on the said controller