Just a cautionary note - let's say you did rewind the motor as you
describe. You still wouldn't be finished. The machine's switch is
likely only sized for the (much smaller) current that would be
drawn with a 660V motor. By rewinding to 220V you are now going to
need 3 times as much current. So if you had (e.g.) a switch that
could pass 10A max. it would now need to be sized to 30A max. And
replacing the switching electrics can be quite expensive. So be
sure to think through and completely price out your project before
you start.

By the way, it is very possible to use a different motor on a BP
head. You just have to make an adapter. I have a spare head with
a 3hp Dayton motor on it which has an adapter which was machined
from aluminum plate. I'm going to replace that motor (wrong RPM)
with a new one I got on ebay. Real Soon Now. I'll probably write
that project up when I do it.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

"Brian" wrote:


I'm in Canada, where commerical power is just about always 550/600 volt
three phase. My shop, of course, is 220 single phase. I'm looking at a
Bridgeport type mill, and all of the used ones have this type of motor.
I've asked the vendors if these types of motors are typically able to be
re-wired to 220 volt three phase, so that I can use a normal phase
converter, but I don't get answers.

So, can a 550 volt three phase motor found on a Bridgeport J head typically,
or in some cases, be wired as a 220 volt motor? (actually, I suspect that I
would get 200 volt three phase out of a phase converter, but I have little
grasp of the detail of this ). Any ideas?

Brian

Thanks, Michael. I'm on your side! I honestly thought that the machines
that I would find available for sale in the 1.5 - 2 hp range would be set up
for the lower voltage, but they are all, so far, 550 volt. Maybe step down
transformers are less common than they used to be or something. So far I've
called on two Excello's, two Bridgeports, a First, and several tiawan
machines, and that's what I've found.

Where are you, how do you like your Excello, is about $4500cdn reasonable
for a 42" XLO in decent shape, w/DRO, no tooling? are parts an issue? Can
you recommend anyone I can call in the Toronto/Hamilton/Brantford area as a
dealer?


"Michael" wrote in message
...
Brian,

I don't know what's on your B-port, but while commercial mains are 550,
most
buildings have step down transformers to 220 to run lighting, machines
etc,
so while commercial power may be 550, a lot (most?) (all?) machines are
going to be 220. My XLO came out of an industrial building and is 220
three
phase. For a couple 'o hundred bucks @ KBC you can buy a Phasomatic,
electronic phase converter and run it off the 220 in your shop. Those
more
knowledgeable that I can describe why rotary is better, but for something
like this where the transmission puts a good load on it, its a low cost
solution that has worked just fine for me.



"Brian" wrote in message
...
I'm in Canada, where commerical power is just about always 550/600 volt
three phase. My shop, of course, is 220 single phase. I'm looking at a
Bridgeport type mill, and all of the used ones have this type of motor.
I've asked the vendors if these types of motors are typically able to be
re-wired to 220 volt three phase, so that I can use a normal phase
converter, but I don't get answers.

So, can a 550 volt three phase motor found on a Bridgeport J head
typically,
or in some cases, be wired as a 220 volt motor? (actually, I suspect
that
I
would get 200 volt three phase out of a phase converter, but I have
little
grasp of the detail of this ). Any ideas?

Brian

Brian

Brian wrote:

If you have put new motors on BP's before, what frame and shaft size motor
is required? Different for a J-head to a varispeed head? What RPM, for
that matter

Use the same frame number as the motor it now has. When I replaced mine, I
goofed and bought a 184T when I needed a 182T or vise versa. All that
meant was that the shaft on the motor I bought was a little big for the
BP step pulley. So I'm going to bore, ream and re-key the step pulley as
part of the project. (Note: I'll do this on a lathe, and I'll stroke the
key as has been described on this NG in detail. Note that you don't have
to get it dialed in dead nuts - the spec allows .010" of runout radially
which is a whole lot.) Basically, the motor on a Bridgeport just sits up
there on its adapter plate, you can loosen it and slide it around all you
want. It's an easy motor mount. The hard part is matching the pulley. And
you should be able to reuse your pulley.

I'm told a J-head uses a 1760 rpm motor for 60Hz power. I can't remember
if Canada uses 50Hz power (I just got back from overseas a few hours ago
and my head is polluted with continental specs) but if it does then you
look for a 1500 rpm motor or whatever is commonly spec'd for a 4-pole
motor.

My head is a J-head, don't know anything at all about a 2J head (varispeed).

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

Brian,

I don't know what's on your B-port, but while commercial mains are 550, most
buildings have step down transformers to 220 to run lighting, machines etc,
so while commercial power may be 550, a lot (most?) (all?) machines are
going to be 220. My XLO came out of an industrial building and is 220 three
phase. For a couple 'o hundred bucks @ KBC you can buy a Phasomatic,
electronic phase converter and run it off the 220 in your shop. Those more
knowledgeable that I can describe why rotary is better, but for something
like this where the transmission puts a good load on it, its a low cost
solution that has worked just fine for me.



"Brian" wrote in message
...
I'm in Canada, where commerical power is just about always 550/600 volt
three phase. My shop, of course, is 220 single phase. I'm looking at a
Bridgeport type mill, and all of the used ones have this type of motor.
I've asked the vendors if these types of motors are typically able to be
re-wired to 220 volt three phase, so that I can use a normal phase
converter, but I don't get answers.

So, can a 550 volt three phase motor found on a Bridgeport J head
typically,
or in some cases, be wired as a 220 volt motor? (actually, I suspect that
I
would get 200 volt three phase out of a phase converter, but I have little
grasp of the detail of this ). Any ideas?

Brian

Brian

In article ,
Grant Erwin wrote:
Brian wrote:

If you have put new motors on BP's before, what frame and shaft size motor
is required? Different for a J-head to a varispeed head? What RPM, for
that matter

Use the same frame number as the motor it now has. When I replaced mine, I

[ ... ]

My head is a J-head, don't know anything at all about a 2J head (varispeed).

There, you get into a motor which is more specialized. I've got
a 2J head on my Series-I BOSS-3 CNC machine, and it uses a motor which
is special in at least two ways:

1) The motor is rather wider than it is long, TEFC, and on the CNC
version at least, it mounts below the head (a real pain to get
it mounted with everything else right, BTW. :-) If the motor
were on top (as it is on at least some manual vari-speed heads),
it could be longer and smaller in diameter, if it won't hit the
ceiling.

2) This one is the one which is harder to get around by mounting
the motor on top of the head. The shaft has to be large, long,
and have a long key in it. The vari-speed pulley mounts
directly onto the shaft, with the moving part sliding on a
Delrin-covered steel key. There is a nasty spring to fight to
get the whole thing together, and a spring clip to get in place
while holding the spring compressed. There is a threaded hole
in the end of the shaft (which is the same thread as the bolts
holding the cover on the head), which can be used with a square
'U'-shaped bracket with a hole through it to compress and hold
the spring while you get the circlip in place.

If you let it run too long without replacing the delrin sleeve
and the delrin-covered key, you'll wind up wearing the keyway
badly, and have difficulty varying the speed through the whole
range. If it *ever* starts making more noise -- get the
replacement sleeves and key and install them before you use it
again. Otherwise, you are out a significant amount of money to
replace the motor shaft and rotor, as well as parts of the
pulley.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article ,
Brian wrote:
Thanks, Michael. I'm on your side! I honestly thought that the machines
that I would find available for sale in the 1.5 - 2 hp range would be set up
for the lower voltage, but they are all, so far, 550 volt. Maybe step down
transformers are less common than they used to be or something. So far I've
called on two Excello's, two Bridgeports, a First, and several tiawan
machines, and that's what I've found.

At least *my* Bridgeport (a Series-I BOSS-3 CNC machine) has a
2HP motor which can be wired for either 220V three phase or 440V three
phase. Take a look at the nameplate on the motor -- it should show a
list of terminal numbers to wire for the lower or the higher voltage.

550V seems a bit high for a 440V machine, so these may be a
special winding for the voltage you have. There are advantages to
running on the higher voltage -- lower current, so smaller wire can be
used when connecting the machine.

If it is a Bridgeport, there are places which specialize in
aftermarket repair parts for them, and I had to get a replacement
rotor/shaft for mine -- thanks to some lack of preventive maintenance by
the previous owner. :-( They list a lot of different repair parts for
the head and motor, and if all else failed, you could probably get a
replacement stator, with the lower voltage windings -- or you could get
the existing stator re-wound for 220/440V. Either route would probably
be cheaper than getting a transformer to step 220V up to 550V followed
by a (more expensive) VFD for 550V operation. (Or a rotary converter
made from a 550V motor, with more expensive capacitors because of the
higher voltage requirements.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In T.O. didn't mean to imply that you weren't able to read the label on the
motor I spent 14 years in industrial real estate and most if not every
building I've seen does have a step down transformer, if for nothing else to
power the photocopier - I quickly get out of my depth with electrical stuff,
more just wanted to point out that because the mains are 550 doesn't mean
all the equipment is going to be (as you probably knew).

Been very happy with the XLO. The only disadvantage compared to a B-port is
parts, which may not be a big deal. Some have told me its preferable
because its heavier but I can't confirm or deny. I've been told you want a
low serial number as earlier ones have noticeably heavier castings. Also
spindle tapers may vary, most I've seen are R8, but make sure what you get
works with your existing tooling. Mine has power feed quill works and
table, its worth the wait to find one so equiped imo.

My own gloat is picking up the XLO & and a lathe with tooling for 1500 cdn.
I was moving a distribution company who'd shut down manufacturing years
before and wanted to get rid of the iron. 1500 was what a scrap dealer told
them it was worth (yea right!). For one in really great shape with DRO 4200
is not unreasonable, sounds like the type of price you'd pay at a dealer -
but as frugality is an important skill in our hobby you may be able to do
better. Then again it can be a lot of work networking to do so, if you
really like the machine and have the money sometimes its nice to get what
you want .

My other gloat is filling up the rest of my shop with stuff coming out
school shops being closed I think the run on this is mostly over. My main
contact into this space is now retired and unfortunately infirm. However
his sometime partner is still active - Carnel Anderson @ Anderson Machine -
he's north of the city near Sutton/Keswick. I think very highly of Carnel,
he's a great machinist with a love for tools, his main business is machining
but he can't help himself from buying almost every machine is stumbles over.
imo an honourable guy, I've bought, sold and made chips with him. Tell him
I referred you.

Another source is Ford Machinery in Richmond Hill. This businesses is a
resurrection of the original Queen Street temple by the son. Never bought a
machine from him, couldn't see eye to eye on price and I've never seen a
mill in the place. But I have bought bits and pieces of which he has a lot.

I can't recommend any other dealers, you're going to have to call/visit a
bunch and chat them up. I went this route when I was putting my shop
together - its spotty, presumably they all want to move inventory so you've
got to keep in touch with them and keep a close eye on your wallet.
Auctions are another great source, but you've got to have a lot of time to
do this. Also auctions are a big game with lots of tricks but bargains can
be had.

Parts have not been an issue (touch wood) most stuff can be made/repaired
or if you are really flush sent out for. There is a guy in TO who worked
for XLO who bought a bunch of the parts (i guess when they closed down) and
sells them out of his basement. I made a new cross feed screw (yes I'm very
proud of that) and bought a new nut from him years ago, but I don't know if
today I'd even know where to start to track him down, but he's out there.

Hope that helps, keep us posted

Michael Ward

"Brian" wrote in message
...
Thanks, Michael. I'm on your side! I honestly thought that the machines
that I would find available for sale in the 1.5 - 2 hp range would be set
up
for the lower voltage, but they are all, so far, 550 volt. Maybe step
down
transformers are less common than they used to be or something. So far
I've
called on two Excello's, two Bridgeports, a First, and several tiawan
machines, and that's what I've found.

Where are you, how do you like your Excello, is about $4500cdn reasonable
for a 42" XLO in decent shape, w/DRO, no tooling? are parts an issue? Can
you recommend anyone I can call in the Toronto/Hamilton/Brantford area as
a
dealer?


"Michael" wrote in message
...
Brian,

I don't know what's on your B-port, but while commercial mains are 550,
most
buildings have step down transformers to 220 to run lighting, machines
etc,
so while commercial power may be 550, a lot (most?) (all?) machines are
going to be 220. My XLO came out of an industrial building and is 220
three
phase. For a couple 'o hundred bucks @ KBC you can buy a Phasomatic,
electronic phase converter and run it off the 220 in your shop. Those
more
knowledgeable that I can describe why rotary is better, but for
something
like this where the transmission puts a good load on it, its a low cost
solution that has worked just fine for me.



"Brian" wrote in message
...
I'm in Canada, where commerical power is just about always 550/600
volt
three phase. My shop, of course, is 220 single phase. I'm looking at
a
Bridgeport type mill, and all of the used ones have this type of
motor.
I've asked the vendors if these types of motors are typically able to
be
re-wired to 220 volt three phase, so that I can use a normal phase
converter, but I don't get answers.

So, can a 550 volt three phase motor found on a Bridgeport J head
typically,
or in some cases, be wired as a 220 volt motor? (actually, I suspect
that
I
would get 200 volt three phase out of a phase converter, but I have
little
grasp of the detail of this ). Any ideas?

Brian

Brian

"Brian" wrote in message ...
Thanks, Michael. I'm on your side! I honestly thought that the machines
that I would find available for sale in the 1.5 - 2 hp range would be set up
for the lower voltage, but they are all, so far, 550 volt. Maybe step down
transformers are less common than they used to be or something. So far I've
called on two Excello's, two Bridgeports, a First, and several tiawan
machines, and that's what I've found.

Where are you, how do you like your Excello, is about $4500cdn reasonable
for a 42" XLO in decent shape, w/DRO, no tooling? are parts an issue? Can
you recommend anyone I can call in the Toronto/Hamilton/Brantford area as a
dealer?


"Michael" wrote in message
...
Brian,

I don't know what's on your B-port, but while commercial mains are 550,
most
buildings have step down transformers to 220 to run lighting, machines
etc,
so while commercial power may be 550, a lot (most?) (all?) machines are
going to be 220. My XLO came out of an industrial building and is 220
three
phase. For a couple 'o hundred bucks @ KBC you can buy a Phasomatic,
electronic phase converter and run it off the 220 in your shop. Those
more
knowledgeable that I can describe why rotary is better, but for something
like this where the transmission puts a good load on it, its a low cost
solution that has worked just fine for me.



"Brian" wrote in message
...
I'm in Canada, where commerical power is just about always 550/600 volt
three phase. My shop, of course, is 220 single phase. I'm looking at a
Bridgeport type mill, and all of the used ones have this type of motor.
I've asked the vendors if these types of motors are typically able to be
re-wired to 220 volt three phase, so that I can use a normal phase
converter, but I don't get answers.

So, can a 550 volt three phase motor found on a Bridgeport J head
typically,
or in some cases, be wired as a 220 volt motor? (actually, I suspect
that
I
would get 200 volt three phase out of a phase converter, but I have
little
grasp of the detail of this ). Any ideas?

Brian

Brian

Hi Brian, I came across the exact same problem when I bought my
mill and asked the same questions. My mill happens to be the Ex-Cell-O
602 and yes it has a 550V motor, I bought it anyway because I fell in
love with it when I ran it and found it to be heavier built than the
bridgeports with superior features plus it compliments my lathe
"Standard Modern" also built in Canada.I believe that the easiest way
to overcome this problem is simply to change motors and be done with
it assuming you feel that spending the extra money is worth it. As for
parts they are available, and they are out of Ontario. If you need a
phone and name e-mail )
Regards
George