How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you apply the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?

"habbi" wrote in message
...
How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you apply the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the
engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?


I have read about such systems on cars but haven't seen them. I imagine
that golf carts are maintained better than cars and aren't used in winter.
Can you imagine hundreds of motorists stalled at every light? If the system
is ever used, I want stock in the starter motor companies.

In article ,
says...
How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you apply the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?



Test-drive a Honda Civic hybrid...
The behavior is pretty close...

Henry Bibb

I think it is because most humans are stupid. You can't expect a
mindless drone to be able to drive a vehicle at 60Mph if torque is
applied / removed during driving. Engine RPM has to be matched to
transmission input RPM when it is started back up.

Rich

It has been used, but not efficiently. You have to realize that golf carts
are driven for a couple of minutes and then parked for a few minutes. Cars
on the other hand are usually not parked for that long, or not for a
predictable time while in traffic. It also takes quite a bit of energy to
start a large motor and I'm not sure if current technology in the battery/
starter system would prove much more energy efficient than idling. There
would also be a hit on overall pollution. A cold cylinder will not
efficiently burn the fuel charge, the rich mixture to start the engine will
wash the cylinder walls and promote wear. Many things involved in this idea
that need to be overcome to make it better than idling for a short time.
lg
no neat sig line

"habbi" wrote in message
...
How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you apply the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the
engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?

Tom Gardner (nospam) wrote:
"habbi" wrote in message
...
How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you apply the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the
engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?

Actually, GM had a truck on the road to prove this technique out. It
had a large battery pack/bank, and the truck actually ran on
Electricity initially or to get going. The key part of this system was
not a traditional Starter, but a completely reworked starting system
hat virtually was built around the trucks flywheel. It in itself was
both an AC generator that put out common household voltage, AND a
Starter. Having those large dimensions really made it more or less
equivilent to being an electric only vehicle if necessary, but
electronics allowed the engine to start as soon as possible because the
design did not use an "endless" source of DC power from a large battery
bank similar to what would be found on electric only vehicles.

To me, that system looked to be as good as anything, and it would have
been a real benefit to have that 120V AC built in !

Back to Golf Carts, most use a simple belt driven "Starter/Generator"
similar to what was found on older Lawn tractors. You can do an Ebay
search on the two words together and see plenty of them. Garden Tractor
ones usually only put out 15 amps tops, while I think the Golf Cart
ones do around 30 amps.

These things make nifty DC charging systems in Motorhomes, as you can
cobble together some electronics that will make a motor "autoStart"
when the batteries are low, and shut down after charge float time or
pure timer functions. Very nice if you have an RV or Tool Truck set up
with 12v to Inverters rather than relying on AC generation all the
time.

Grummy

I've heard of standby generators that had a flywheel starter. The flywheel
was kept spinning by a mains powered motor. When the power failed,a clutch
engaged the flywheel to the genset and it was up and generating power in
seconds. I suspect that there may have been a few crankshaft failures as it
would be a pretty heavy shock load on start up.


wrote in message
oups.com...


Tom Gardner (nospam) wrote:
"habbi" wrote in message
...
How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you apply
the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the
engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?

Actually, GM had a truck on the road to prove this technique out. It
had a large battery pack/bank, and the truck actually ran on
Electricity initially or to get going. The key part of this system was
not a traditional Starter, but a completely reworked starting system
hat virtually was built around the trucks flywheel. It in itself was
both an AC generator that put out common household voltage, AND a
Starter. Having those large dimensions really made it more or less
equivilent to being an electric only vehicle if necessary, but
electronics allowed the engine to start as soon as possible because the
design did not use an "endless" source of DC power from a large battery
bank similar to what would be found on electric only vehicles.

To me, that system looked to be as good as anything, and it would have
been a real benefit to have that 120V AC built in !

Back to Golf Carts, most use a simple belt driven "Starter/Generator"
similar to what was found on older Lawn tractors. You can do an Ebay
search on the two words together and see plenty of them. Garden Tractor
ones usually only put out 15 amps tops, while I think the Golf Cart
ones do around 30 amps.

These things make nifty DC charging systems in Motorhomes, as you can
cobble together some electronics that will make a motor "autoStart"
when the batteries are low, and shut down after charge float time or
pure timer functions. Very nice if you have an RV or Tool Truck set up
with 12v to Inverters rather than relying on AC generation all the
time.

Grummy

GM announced plans for a similar action in their full size p/u. The engine
shuts off automatically when idling i.e. at stop lights. Claims to have
significant fuel savings.


"habbi" wrote in message
...
How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you apply the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the
engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?

"habbi" skrev i en meddelelse
...
How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you apply the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the
engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?

Volkswagen used this in their Lupo 3L with a small turbodiesel engine.. In
economy mode it would stop the engine at red lights... They got it to run
about 33 km / litre on diesel.. I think this was the record at the time..

/peter

Not much of a shock load, the clutch slips to reduce the shock load. The
mass of the flywheel is so sigificant that the voltage never did a noticable
dip when AC mains was lost.

Saw one of these in an old hospital years ago. It looked like it may have
been a steam driven gen set at one time. The flywheel was huge and was the
generator. It had an electric motor on one side to drive it during normal
use and a diesel on the other side with a mechanical clutch that was
controlled by loss of incoming power.

As I understood it the flywheel only powered part of the OR (1 or 2 rooms)
where they did open heart surgery. The flywheel stored enough energy to let
them finish a open heart procedure using a heart lung pump. The time frame
would have been early 1950's at a major univerisity medical center..

It was still in use in the middle 60's. I am sure it was from the late
1800's to early 1900's. I suspect they just torched off the steam cylinders
and removed the connecting rod to make the conversion.


Hugh



"Tom Miller" wrote in message
...
I've heard of standby generators that had a flywheel starter. The flywheel
was kept spinning by a mains powered motor. When the power failed,a clutch
engaged the flywheel to the genset and it was up and generating power in
seconds. I suspect that there may have been a few crankshaft failures as
it
would be a pretty heavy shock load on start up.


wrote in message
oups.com...


Tom Gardner (nospam) wrote:
"habbi" wrote in message
...
How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you
apply
the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal
the
engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?

Actually, GM had a truck on the road to prove this technique out. It
had a large battery pack/bank, and the truck actually ran on
Electricity initially or to get going. The key part of this system was
not a traditional Starter, but a completely reworked starting system
hat virtually was built around the trucks flywheel. It in itself was
both an AC generator that put out common household voltage, AND a
Starter. Having those large dimensions really made it more or less
equivilent to being an electric only vehicle if necessary, but
electronics allowed the engine to start as soon as possible because the
design did not use an "endless" source of DC power from a large battery
bank similar to what would be found on electric only vehicles.

To me, that system looked to be as good as anything, and it would have
been a real benefit to have that 120V AC built in !

Back to Golf Carts, most use a simple belt driven "Starter/Generator"
similar to what was found on older Lawn tractors. You can do an Ebay
search on the two words together and see plenty of them. Garden Tractor
ones usually only put out 15 amps tops, while I think the Golf Cart
ones do around 30 amps.

These things make nifty DC charging systems in Motorhomes, as you can
cobble together some electronics that will make a motor "autoStart"
when the batteries are low, and shut down after charge float time or
pure timer functions. Very nice if you have an RV or Tool Truck set up
with 12v to Inverters rather than relying on AC generation all the
time.

Grummy

Well how does it work in a golf cart anyway? Does thge brake ground out the
ignition and the accelerator activate a relay to power the generator/starter
or something?

"Q" wrote in message
...

"habbi" skrev i en meddelelse
...
How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you apply
the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the
engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?

Volkswagen used this in their Lupo 3L with a small turbodiesel engine.. In
economy mode it would stop the engine at red lights... They got it to run
about 33 km / litre on diesel.. I think this was the record at the time..

/peter

Well how does it work in a golf cart anyway? Does thge brake ground out the
ignition and the accelerator activate a relay to power the generator/starter
or something?
The ones I've seen use a regular brake pedal for stopping (with a lock
bar on it for a parking brake). The gas pedal has a microswitch on it
to start cranking the starter/generator in the direction the
"forward-neutral-reverse" switch is in. As I understand it, the
engine timing is set for 0 degrees (TDC) so the engine will run either
direction.
Ken.

habbi wrote:
How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you apply the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?


I understand that Detriot will be moving to 42 volt electrical systems
soon. They will build the starter/generator into the flywheel. It
would be a short hop in technology then to turn the engine on and off
with the throttle. At 42 volts the current will be lower and with no
moving parts, reliability should be high.

Pete Stanaitis

spaco wrote:

habbi wrote:

How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you apply
the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the
engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?


I understand that Detriot will be moving to 42 volt electrical systems
soon. They will build the starter/generator into the flywheel. It
would be a short hop in technology then to turn the engine on and off
with the throttle. At 42 volts the current will be lower and with no
moving parts, reliability should be high.

And you can arc weld with jumper cables (:

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
spaco wrote:
I understand that Detriot will be moving to 42 volt electrical systems
soon. They will build the starter/generator into the flywheel. It would
be a short hop in technology then to turn the engine on and off with the
throttle. At 42 volts the current will be lower and with no moving
parts, reliability should be high.

And you can arc weld with jumper cables (:

I've arc welded on a 12 volt system --- *inadvertantly*

Hope the OEMs print a caution label near the battery on the 2007 cars.

If you try and draw 80 amps out the battery at every red light you will
kill it in no time.It takes longer to charge up than drain.Cart engines
stop so that you can reverse the starter to backup.

Jim Stewart wrote:
spaco wrote:

habbi wrote:

How do the gas powered golf carts starting system work. When you
apply the
brakes the engine shuts off and then when you press the gas pedal the
engine
starts and you drive away. Why hasn't this technology been used in
automobiles?


I understand that Detriot will be moving to 42 volt electrical systems
soon. They will build the starter/generator into the flywheel. It
would be a short hop in technology then to turn the engine on and off
with the throttle. At 42 volts the current will be lower and with no
moving parts, reliability should be high.


And you can arc weld with jumper cables (: