Hi,

I live in a confined space where excessive noise will not be tollerated
by neigbours. I need a tool to grind mosaic tiles.

My current considerations a
OPTION 1
Foredom 1/3 flex shaft tool with all the diamond bits. Around $400

OPTION 2
Ingersoll Rand mini die grinder PLUS dentist/laboratory type "quiet"
compressor. I found a shop that sells a second hand "rotary vane" quite
compressor delivering 4CFM @ 10 bar with only 62 dBa noise ! Total
outlay around $1000 (new it would be around $2000). ouch.

I would prefer the Foredom as the outlay will be significantly less.
However will it drive my neigbours mad? Does the sound travel through
walls like my 1HP 4 1/2" Bosch angel grinder?

Thanks for your thoughts

Guido

the noise will come mostly from the cutting wheel, not the tool, so I would
say (without taking measurements) that the foredom type tool will be no
noiser than the air powered tool - but you will find the mini-die grinder
gives you faster cutting and is a little easier to use (at least that's what
I find with the 200,000 rmp micro carver I have versus a flexible shaft
machine that is like the foredom)

by the way, I have some suitable rotary vane pumps for a whole lot less,
used - build your own sound cancelling enclosure - see my web,
www.wbnoble.com if you want to check that option out.


"GCN" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I live in a confined space where excessive noise will not be tollerated
by neigbours. I need a tool to grind mosaic tiles.

My current considerations a
OPTION 1
Foredom 1/3 flex shaft tool with all the diamond bits. Around $400

OPTION 2
Ingersoll Rand mini die grinder PLUS dentist/laboratory type "quiet"
compressor. I found a shop that sells a second hand "rotary vane" quite
compressor delivering 4CFM @ 10 bar with only 62 dBa noise ! Total
outlay around $1000 (new it would be around $2000). ouch.

I would prefer the Foredom as the outlay will be significantly less.
However will it drive my neigbours mad? Does the sound travel through
walls like my 1HP 4 1/2" Bosch angel grinder?

Thanks for your thoughts

Guido

On 4 Jun 2005 06:14:46 -0700, "GCN" wrote:

I live in a confined space where excessive noise will not be tollerated
by neigbours. I need a tool to grind mosaic tiles.

My current considerations a
OPTION 1
Foredom 1/3 flex shaft tool with all the diamond bits. Around $400

OPTION 2
Ingersoll Rand mini die grinder PLUS dentist/laboratory type "quiet"
compressor. I found a shop that sells a second hand "rotary vane" quite
compressor delivering 4CFM @ 10 bar with only 62 dBa noise ! Total
outlay around $1000 (new it would be around $2000). ouch.

I suspect the noise problems would be less with the air die grinder
IF it has a remote exhaust tube fitting on the butt of the tool.
Sending the exhaust through a few feet of tubing before it exhausts
will cut the noise coming out the exhaust port.

And you move the noise frequency higher, where it's far easier to
attenuate. Low-frequency sound shakes the walls and conducts easier.

I would prefer the Foredom as the outlay will be significantly less.
However will it drive my neigbours mad? Does the sound travel through
walls like my 1HP 4 1/2" Bosch angel grinder?

Nothing is going to quiet down an angle grinder short of a sealed
and soundproofed box. Especially if it's square-cut gears. ;-)

Speaking of boxes, you could get a standard DeWalt Emglo contractor
style oil-lubed portable compressor, build a foam lined soundproofing
plywood box with two labyrinth sound traps for cooling air intake and
exhaust, and a muffin fan or two for cooling air. You can do this for
a whole lot less than one of those special super-quiet compressors.
It will give you more air, and be more reliable to boot.

Or you build a silenced compressor box as described above (even if
it gets big) then stick it down in your garage, up on the roof, in the
bedroom closet, out on the patio, stain it and use it as a TV stand -
you can run 1000 feet of air hose (or pipe) and hide the compressor
almost anywhere with very little loss.

How are you handling the grinding dust produced? You should have
some sort of a "fume hood" workbench with an outside exhaust fan and
fine dust filters to catch the dust before the air is exhausted. If
you don't control the dust properly you (or one of the neighbors) can
come down with serious lung problems...

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

"GCN" wrote in message
oups.com...

I live in a confined space where excessive noise will not be tollerated
by neigbours. I need a tool to grind mosaic tiles.


You might want to consider lining a small sandblast cabinit [such as
http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,1102.html ] with 1" styrofoam to
give yourself a "soundproofed" workstation.

Before making your final decision, you might want to _hear_ both options in
a confined area.

From the "sounds" of it, I'm thinking that you're trying to work in an
apartment.

Another aspect you might want to consideration is operational cost.
Compressing air is probably more costly than the few amps it takes to run
the Foredom.

You might also consider an electric die grinder, like the Makita I have. A
Foredom is not the tool of choice, IMO, when you are putting strong side
loads on it. You can snap the drive shaft if the wheel gets pinched. A die
grinder (air or electric) will either keep cutting or stop.

Noise from cutting will vary depending on the bit or cutter you are using
and the material you cut.

"GCN" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I live in a confined space where excessive noise will not be tollerated
by neigbours. I need a tool to grind mosaic tiles.

My current considerations a
OPTION 1
Foredom 1/3 flex shaft tool with all the diamond bits. Around $400

OPTION 2
Ingersoll Rand mini die grinder PLUS dentist/laboratory type "quiet"
compressor. I found a shop that sells a second hand "rotary vane" quite
compressor delivering 4CFM @ 10 bar with only 62 dBa noise ! Total
outlay around $1000 (new it would be around $2000). ouch.

I would prefer the Foredom as the outlay will be significantly less.
However will it drive my neigbours mad? Does the sound travel through
walls like my 1HP 4 1/2" Bosch angel grinder?

Thanks for your thoughts

Guido

On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 17:14:28 -0500, RAM^3 wrote:

"GCN" wrote in message
oups.com...

I live in a confined space where excessive noise will not be tollerated
by neigbours. I need a tool to grind mosaic tiles.


You might want to consider lining a small sandblast cabinit [such as
http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,1102.html ] with 1" styrofoam to
give yourself a "soundproofed" workstation.

Now that's very smart indeed! It'd also contain dust and grit for
easier clean up.

Say... That sounds like a good idea for a grinding wheel in a small
shop with machine tools that you don't want to get abrasive grit
on.

Thanks for the replies.

I think my fear is that my 1HP angle grinder makes a hell-o-va noise
even if it is just free running with zero load.

on this example chart of SPL
http://home.new.rr.com/trumpetb/audio/dBexamp.html
I would put it at around 90-100dB ?

If the main problem with the 1/3HP Foredom or the air die grinder (+
muffled air compressor) is the actual sound from cutting then the
foredom sounds like a winner (being cheaper overall in this instance)

BTW where, in decibel, would you guess the 1/3HP Foredom, free running
with zero load? (maybe refer back to the chart?)

Yes I want to do daily work in my appartment flat.

Thanks again

Guido



AHS wrote:
Another aspect you might want to consideration is operational cost.
Compressing air is probably more costly than the few amps it takes to run
the Foredom.

You might also consider an electric die grinder, like the Makita I have. A
Foredom is not the tool of choice, IMO, when you are putting strong side
loads on it. You can snap the drive shaft if the wheel gets pinched. A die
grinder (air or electric) will either keep cutting or stop.

Noise from cutting will vary depending on the bit or cutter you are using
and the material you cut.

"GCN" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I live in a confined space where excessive noise will not be tollerated
by neigbours. I need a tool to grind mosaic tiles.

My current considerations a
OPTION 1
Foredom 1/3 flex shaft tool with all the diamond bits. Around $400

OPTION 2
Ingersoll Rand mini die grinder PLUS dentist/laboratory type "quiet"
compressor. I found a shop that sells a second hand "rotary vane" quite
compressor delivering 4CFM @ 10 bar with only 62 dBa noise ! Total
outlay around $1000 (new it would be around $2000). ouch.

I would prefer the Foredom as the outlay will be significantly less.
However will it drive my neigbours mad? Does the sound travel through
walls like my 1HP 4 1/2" Bosch angel grinder?

Thanks for your thoughts

Guido

Air die-grinders aren't exactly quiet... regardless of what compressor
you use.
I have one of these little IR 1/3hp die grinders, which is rated at 95db
(plus the compressor noise):
http://www.westerntool.com/product.htm?pid=420964
I don't really pay too much attention to air consumptions because we
have plenty... but I would be surprised if that 4 cfm compressor would even
come close to running this thing.
The 85/97db "mini" isn't any more air efficient:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/brandspl...6-ir-307a.html
In comparison, my Foredom SR 1/8hp flex-shaft tool is about 1/3 as loud
as the fan over my stove at home. I don't have a sound pressure meter, but
from your chart I would guess it might be 60db - 70db at most... it wouldn't
even come close to interrupting normal conversation when running wide-open
at 18k rpm.
http://www.woodcarvingstore.com/Fore...carvingKit.asp
With the Foredom, the noise from the cutting bit is definitely louder
than the tool itself... with the IR die-grinder it's the other way around.
Anyway, I don't have a 1/3hp Foredom to compare to... but I would expect
it to be about 1/4 as loud as the compressor/die grinder combination (just
my guess based on what I do have).
David




http://pstuning.com/ "GCN" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the replies.

I think my fear is that my 1HP angle grinder makes a hell-o-va noise
even if it is just free running with zero load.

on this example chart of SPL
http://home.new.rr.com/trumpetb/audio/dBexamp.html
I would put it at around 90-100dB ?

If the main problem with the 1/3HP Foredom or the air die grinder (+
muffled air compressor) is the actual sound from cutting then the
foredom sounds like a winner (being cheaper overall in this instance)

BTW where, in decibel, would you guess the 1/3HP Foredom, free running
with zero load? (maybe refer back to the chart?)

Yes I want to do daily work in my appartment flat.

Thanks again

Guido

Even $400 for the Foredom is a "Yowie!" in my book. Unless this is
going to be a business.

I have a Makita electric die grinder ($70 ?) and a bunch of 1/4" carbide
bits that I got on eBay (10 for $10 ?). For cutting tile, I mounted
the grinder upside down under a table with the bit sticking through
(think table mounted router). This way I only have to hold the tile,
and I have the table to hold it on. Very stable. Holding a grinder in
one hand and the tile in the other is asking for trouble. I have a hook
up to my shop vac for dust. And I have a 1/4 - 1/8 adapter for Dremel bits.

This doesn't address your noise concerns, but I hope it helps.

Bob

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
Even $400 for the Foredom is a "Yowie!" in my book. Unless this is going
to be a business.

I have a Makita electric die grinder ($70 ?) and a bunch of 1/4" carbide
bits that I got on eBay (10 for $10 ?). For cutting tile, I mounted the
grinder upside down under a table with the bit sticking through (think
table mounted router). This way I only have to hold the tile, and I have
the table to hold it on. Very stable. Holding a grinder in one hand and
the tile in the other is asking for trouble. I have a hook up to my shop
vac for dust. And I have a 1/4 - 1/8 adapter for Dremel bits.

This doesn't address your noise concerns, but I hope it helps.

Bob

If the OP is starting from scratch, why not simply _begin_ with a
table-mounted router and a set of inexpensive diamond bits?

http://www.homier.com/detail.asp?dpt=&cat=&sku=04606 is a 10-bit set for $5
with 1/4" shanks...

Of course, for noise abatement, he could put the table inside a "glove
box" - even use the router to cut the holes - lined with sound-absorbant
material.