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| Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#41
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On 25 May 2005 04:52:56 -0700, jim rozen
wrote: In article , Gunner says... So which group of nations is big enough to take us down? The last time we didn't even know the answer to that question before it happened. Are you sure you want to keep on asking it? So which group took us down? Nukeing Mecca was something of a personal fantasy..but the day may not be all that far in the furture. Its called A Last Resort. They got pretty riled up when we flushed a koran. Just think if the same thing happened to the Kaba. They started killing each other over the rumor we had flushed a qu'ran. If we nuked the Black Stone, perhaps they would wipe each other out? Jim Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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On Tue, 24 May 2005 17:52:15 -0400, "Proto" wrote:
They by and large should have done as their forebearers did..and planned ahead. So what you are saying then they should be penalized for this. Gunner probably inherited a lot of money. -- Cliff |
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:42:35 -0500, Rex B wrote:
They by and large should have done as their forebearers did..and planned ahead. So what you are saying then they should be penalized for this. I do believe all should plan ahead and save for the years when they cannot earn a living. I am currently, at 53, saving 1/3 of my gross income toward retirement. I've been at 15% or more since my early 30s. But I'm a long way from having enough to retire and live on in 10 years. I also know that a devastating illness or a big lawsuit at any time could make me penniless. Rex And SS was intended for exactly that..those that for various reasons either lost it all or couldnt make it. Not as something to replace all other means. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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#44
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On 25 May 2005 02:58:19 GMT, (Frank White)
wrote: Bush says we NEED the Patriot Act to fight terrorists; and even though there's little evidence that the Patriot Act has actually been effective against terrorist activities Looks like a large number of the military & "homeland insecurtty" employees are known criminals or illegal aliens or working on fake social security numbers in any case. Herr shrubbie's "port security" spending is less than ~5% of what everyone that knows about such things says is needed. Fake IDs seem easy to get & nobody checks much anyway .... Nifty boondoggle. -- Cliff "...a terrorist would have to be really stupid to attack George's office, because the odds of George being there are so slim. " Ben Tripp |
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On 25 May 2005 02:58:19 GMT, (Frank White)
wrote: I have no wish to see the US go from the world's policeman to Nazi Germany II overnight and the world preparing to put us down like a rabid dog. The EU (among others) may already have long range plans in motion, just in case. They are not stupid. -- Cliff |
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On 25 May 2005 02:58:19 GMT, (Frank White)
wrote: "Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown And THIS is another problem! I haven't been able to Google it - I may be remembering it wrong - but I recall the counter quote that "Nations are at their most arrogant when they are in decline". Spain, England, France, several of the Chinese dynasties before they fall... I don't know if we're in decline but I see worrisome signs: A crumbling infrastructure, lack of focus on education, an increasing divide between rich and poor, You probably are a little better off now in the US IF you make over US$ 200,000 per year or inherited your wealth. political/social/religious divisiveness on a scale seldom seen before... -- Cliff |
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 04:53:27 GMT, Gunner
wrote: What do you classify your proposal that we nuke Mecca in retaliation for further terrorist attacks as? Have you actually THOUGHT of what the consequences of that would be, international, economic, political, social, internal, humanitarian? I have no wish to see the US go from the world's policeman to Nazi Germany II overnight and the world preparing to put us down like a rabid dog. If your plan is not a bull**** idea, I don't know what is... So which group of nations is big enough to take us down? Nukeing Mecca was something of a personal fantasy..but the day may not be all that far in the furture. Its called A Last Resort. Not YOUR religion, eh, gummer? BTW, Do you have ANY clue what nation Mecca is in? (He's often quite confused by maps & suchlike too.) -- Cliff |
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 04:35:54 GMT, Gunner
wrote: But Roosevelt had indeed proposed a plan under which all workers would have been allowed to make periodic voluntary payments in exchange for certificates representing the amounts they had deposited. At 65, workers would have been able to trade in their certificates for annuities that paid up to $100 a month (the 1935 equivalent of some $1,300 today) based on their total deposits plus interest. In fact, Roosevelt expressly cited the need for private plans to become available as the worst of the Depression passed: And now we have IRAs, 401Ks, etc. Gunner's just demented. -- Cliff |
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 04:49:34 GMT, Gunner
wrote: How does their being able to collect money from another pension have anything to do with the SS trust fund? First..there is NO trust fund. Sure there is. YOU just have to pay increased taxes to pay it back as the republicans borrowed it all. "Full faith & credit". Do YOU recall those words? OTOH The neocons think that it's meaningless and all tey have to do is BOROW another two trillion ++ US dollars (from what fool?) to add to their already staggering deficits .... President Participates in Social Security Roundtable in Ohio ...... [ THE PRESIDENT: By the way, I went to West Virginia the other day and saw the asset base of the so-called Social Security trust: You know what, it was about four or five file cabinets full of paper. (Laughter.) It was the IOU left behind from one hand of government to the other hand of government. ] Plan A is to let/make you buy ("invest in") those worthless bonds .... a "conservative investment" ..... -- Cliff |
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On 25 May 2005 02:58:19 GMT, the inscrutable
(Frank White) spake: In article , says... I don't think Gunner's a nutjob. But I have no idea what's wrong with him, these days.  FW Ditto, see below. What are you referring to? That I dont share your view on the war in Iraq? Well, that, in part. But it goes deeper. Up until recently I would have said that the tenets of your life were "Work hard, play fair, follow the rules no matter what the other guy does, and don't trust government (aka if someone from the government comes up and says "We're here to help you", run for your life)". But now... Bush says we need to invade other countries in the name of national security, you not only jump on the bandwagon, you attack - without discussion or an explaination of why you support him - anyone who says this was a BAD idea. Bush says we should privatize Social Security, you accept his proposal as Gospel, ignoring even the Republican economists who point out problems. Like that it may well cost TRILLIONS (yes, the "T" word) to implement his plan at a time when the government is already facing record deficets. And that there's little popular support for such an idea. Bush says we NEED the Patriot Act to fight terrorists; and even though there's little evidence that the Patriot Act has actually been effective against terrorist activities; and even though your challenge to name one innocent person who's been hurt by the law has been answered repeatedly and extensively in the positive; and even though folks from all over the spectrum worry about it endangering civil liberties, you insist anyone who wants this act repealed is a leftist whack- hole. It's like you've chucked the fourth tenet and become, not just a Bush supporter, but a Saturday Night Live parody of a Bush supporter. Or the guy in "1984" who was reprogrammed to love Big Brother... I assume the first two tenets are still in place. But some of your comments make me think you've also tossed "Follow the rules" (or international law, the Golden Rule, basic humanity, etc) for "kill them all and let God sort them out". Wrath, I would point out, is one of the Seven Deadly Sins... Or that I tend to not let bull**** remain unanswered? You don't? What do you classify your proposal that we nuke Mecca in retaliation for further terrorist attacks as? Have you actually THOUGHT of what the consequences of that would be, international, economic, political, social, internal, humanitarian? I have no wish to see the US go from the world's policeman to Nazi Germany II overnight and the world preparing to put us down like a rabid dog. If your plan is not a bull**** idea, I don't know what is... I don't know who's doing your thinking for you thse days, but you should fire them. They're not doing a good job. Or that my capacity for being nice to buffoons has gotten smaller and smaller? Gunner "Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown And THIS is another problem! I haven't been able to Google it - I may be remembering it wrong - but I recall the counter quote that "Nations are at their most arrogant when they are in decline". Spain, England, France, several of the Chinese dynasties before they fall... I don't know if we're in decline but I see worrisome signs: A crumbling infrastructure, lack of focus on education, an increasing divide between rich and poor, political/social/religious divisiveness on a scale seldom seen before... Decline CAN be reversed, but it takes people willing to work together, identify the problems, and figure out how to fix them. Finding such people isn't easy... AMEN, Frank. I didn't snip any of it because it was so good. The Shrub (or RNC) has somehow thoroughly brainwashed poor Gunner into believing their every twisted thought, no matter how liberal or sick it may be. It's downright scary! Maybe Big Brother is trying another one of those "LSD-in-the-public-water" experiments in California.  Let's hope he recovers soon, before Shrub and followers push more than a billion otherwise mellow Arabs (and/or the hundreds of millions of sheeple here in the US) over the edge. Without the ****-stirring, the few Arab terrorists don't have the societal backing they need to continue their crap on nearly as large a front as they have now. -- REMEMBER: First you pillage, then you burn. --- http://diversify.com Full Service Website Development |
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#51
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On 25 May 2005 13:28:29 GMT, (Frank White)
wrote: In a perfect world the first part of Marx's little ditty would be the truth of our income tax system. "Philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it." Karl Marx --Theses on Feuerbach ?? -- Cliff |
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#52
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Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 17:52:15 -0400, "Proto" wrote: The reason so many people have only Social Security, as they by and large, were told that SS would be there to bail them out when they retired. A Retirement account. Something it was NEVER intended to be. This is what I am trying to find out. Where does it say just WHAT it was intended to be? I have heard many say what it was not intended to be. Who can explain to me their idea of what it is supposed to be. "Columnist Ellen Goodman claimed that conservatives were saying "that FDR himself endorsed personal accounts." James Roosevelt, a grandson of the former president, called it an "outrageous distortion" that might warrant Mr. Hume's firing. Former labor secretary Robert Reich called the citing of Roosevelt's interest in private annuities "just one example of how the Republican propaganda machine is lying to the American people about Bush's plan for Social Security, just as it has lied about so much else." But Roosevelt had indeed proposed a plan under which all workers would have been allowed to make periodic voluntary payments in exchange for certificates representing the amounts they had deposited. At 65, workers would have been able to trade in their certificates for annuities that paid up to $100 a month (the 1935 equivalent of some $1,300 today) based on their total deposits plus interest. In fact, Roosevelt expressly cited the need for private plans to become available as the worst of the Depression passed: "I am greatly hoping that repeated promises of private investment and private initiative to relieve the government in the immediate future of much of the burden it has assumed will be fulfilled." But Congress balked. In an article this month titled "When Congress Killed Private Accounts," National Journal notes that Rep. Frederick Vinson of Kentucky, who later became Treasury secretary under President Truman, helped kill the private annuity plan, saying he saw no "particular need" for it at that time. But he also told his House colleagues, "Many of us think the time will come when the voluntary annuity plan, which rounds out the security program for the aged, will be written into law." Yes, the plan proposed by Roosevelt and rejected by Congress in 1935 is substantially different from the one Mr. Bush is advocating. But taking into account 70 years of progress in financial instruments, there are also many similarities. No one really knows how FDR would have thought about fixing Social Security today, 70 years after he brought it into existence and 60 years after his death. That's because Roosevelt was anything but an ideologue. The historian Eric Goldman wrote of FDR that "he trusted no system except the system of endless experimentation." FDR himself said in a speech at Oglethorpe University that "this country needs . . . bold, persistent experimentation. It is common sense to take a method and try it: If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something." I suspect that, whatever his views might be on personal accounts today, FDR would have little use for liberals who attack them without any suggestions of their own on how to "try something." http://www.lewrockwell.com/bresiger/bresiger6.html this may answer your questions I have no questions. I just want someone of the ones that repeat what they hear about SS to explain in their own words what it was intended for if not a supplementary income. It is very easy to repeat something and to post links but to explain it means that you understand what you are saying. "The reason so many people have only Social Security, as they by and large, were told that SS would be there to bail them out when they retired. A Retirement account. Something it was NEVER intended to be." Who told these people is what I want to know. Are they the same ones that are now saying it is not a retirement account? I bet they are. Can you say "Bait and Switch". |
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#53
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Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 04:53:27 GMT, Gunner wrote: What do you classify your proposal that we nuke Mecca in retaliation for further terrorist attacks as? Have you actually THOUGHT of what the consequences of that would be, international, economic, political, social, internal, humanitarian? I have no wish to see the US go from the world's policeman to Nazi Germany II overnight and the world preparing to put us down like a rabid dog. If your plan is not a bull**** idea, I don't know what is... So which group of nations is big enough to take us down? Nukeing Mecca was something of a personal fantasy..but the day may not be all that far in the furture. Its called A Last Resort. Not YOUR religion, eh, gummer? BTW, Do you have ANY clue what nation Mecca is in? (He's often quite confused by maps & suchlike too.) it in Texas? What about Utah? Ike.. |
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#54
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:37:35 -0400, "Proto" wrote:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/bresiger/bresiger6.html this may answer your questions I have no questions. I just want someone of the ones that repeat what they hear about SS to explain in their own words what it was intended for if not a supplementary income. It is very easy to repeat something and to post links but to explain it means that you understand what you are saying. "The reason so many people have only Social Security, as they by and large, were told that SS would be there to bail them out when they retired. A Retirement account. Something it was NEVER intended to be." Who told these people is what I want to know. Are they the same ones that are now saying it is not a retirement account? I bet they are. Can you say "Bait and Switch". Perhaps you should ask the politicians of the past 60 yrs? Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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#55
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:59:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: Let's hope he recovers soon, before Shrub and followers push more than a billion otherwise mellow Arabs (and/or the hundreds of millions of sheeple here in the US) over the edge. Without the ****-stirring, the few Arab terrorists don't have the societal backing they need to continue their crap on nearly as large a front as they have now. Bush has been president since 1979? Your bias, your hate and your spew is noted. As is your apparent attempt at revisionism November 4, 1979 Teran, Iran U.S. Embassy Taken Over A group of Iranian students who were angry at the United States attacked and seized its embassy in Tehran, Iran. They were supported by the countries leader, Ayatollah Khomeini. Details 1982 - 1991 Lebanon 18 Americans Kidnapped David Dodge was the president of the American University in Beirut. He was kidnapped the first time while he was on his way home from work. He was released, but he was kidnapped again. This time he was killed. His murder was called the most gruesome abduction, torture, and killing of a United States citizen. The terrorists videotaped his torture and murder. A group called the Organization of the Oppressed on Earth claimed responsibility, but the real suspects are the Hezbollah guerillas. Details April 18, 1983 Beirut, Lebanon Truck Bombing of U.S. Embassy A large vehicle packed with explosives is driven quickly into the U.S. Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes it kills 63 people. A group of terrorists called the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility. Details October 23, 1983 Beirut, Lebanon Truck Bombing of U.S. Marine Barracks A large truck bomb with 2,500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the U.S. Marine headquarters in Beirut. 241 U.S. servicement are killed when it expoldes. A French paratrooper base is blown up just a few minutes later and 58 French soldiers are killed. A terrorist group called the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility. Details December 12, 1983 Kuwait City, Kuwait U.S. Embassy Annex Attacked A truck loaded with explosives crashed into the U.S. Embassy anex in Kuwait. Four people were killed and at least 62 were injured. A terrorist group called the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility. Details September 20, 1984 Beirut, Lebanon U.S. Embassy Compound Attacked A van filled with explosives sped through several barriers and groups of U.S. soldiers and stopped about 30 feet in front of the embassy annex. The driver of the van and 12 soldiers and visitors to the annex were killed. A terrorist group called the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility. Details April 12, 1985 Madrid, Spain Restaurant Bombing A bomb exploded in a restaurant where U.S. soldiers liked to eat. The explosion killed 18 Spaniard citizens and injured 82 other people. Only 15 of the Americans were injured, but none were killed. Details June 13, 1985 Beirut, Lebanon/ Algiers, Algeria TWA Flight 847 This airliner took off in Rome, Italy, but was hijacked and forced to fly to Beirut, Lebanon. Mohammed Hamadei from the terrorist group Hezbollah, Hassan Izz-al-Din from Lebanon, and Ali Atwa another terrorist hijacked the plane. Details August 8, 1985 Frankfurt, Germany Rhein-Main Airbase Bombing Two Americans and 20 others are injured when a Volkswagon car loaded with explosives blew up at the U.S. Rhein-Main air base in Frankfurt, Germany. Two terrorist groups, West German Red Army faction and the French Direct Action, claimed responsibility for the bombing. Details October 7, 1985 Port Said, Egypt The Ship Achille Lauro is Hijacked Achille Lauro cruise ship hijacked by four Palistinian men who are members of the Palestine Liberation Organization. They murder a handicapped man from New York and throw his body overboard. Details November 23, 1985 Valeta, Malta Egyptair Flight 648 Hijacked Three Arab men from the terrorist group Abu Nidal Organization hijacked this plane and forced it to land in Valletta, Malta. There was a 30 hour standoff between the hijackers and the Egyptian comandos. Details December 27, 1985 Rome, Italy and Vienna, Austria Grenades and Guns are used to Massacre Passengers at Rome and Vienna Airport At the same time two groups of terrorists, one in Rome and one in Vienna, charge up to the counters of Israel's El Air airline. They throw grenades at the tourists getting ready to fly on the airline. Details April 02, 1986 Athens, Greece TWA Flight 840 Bombed As the plane was beginning to land in Athens a plastic explosive bomb exploded under the seat of the passenger sitting in seat 10F. Four people were killed and nine others were wounded. The terrorist group called Ezzedine Kassam Unit of the Arab Revolutionary Cells claimed responsibility.Details April 05, 1986 West Berlin La Belle Disco in Berlin Bombed The La Belle is a nightclub that was popular with the United States servicemen. Two United States soldiers and one Turkish woman were killed in the explosion December 21, 1988 Lockerbie, Scotland Pan Am Flight 103 Bombing The bomb that blew up this flight was packed in a small radio case. It was left on the plane by a terrorist that got off of the plane at an earlier stop. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terrorist group claimed responsibility. The bombing was carried out so that they could take revenge on America when one of its warships accidentally mistook a Palestinian passenger plane as a war plane and shot it down. Details January 25, 1993 Langley, Virginia CIA Employees in Langley, VA are Shot A Pakisini man, Mir Aimal Kasi, who lived in Virginia drove up to the CIA building in Langley, Virginia and shot two CIA agents. He was angry because he believed that the United States were mistreating Muslims who lived in the Middle East. Details February 26, 1993 New York, New York 1993 World Trade Center in New York Bombed A group of Muslim terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives and driven into the World Trade Center's underground parking garage. Six people were killed and more than 1,000 are injured in this terrorist attack Details November 13, 1995 Riyadh, Saudi Arabia U.S. Military Complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia is Bombed Seven people are killed when a powerful car bomb explodes in front of a military center run by the United States military. Three terrorist groups: Islamic Movement for Change, the Tigers of the Gulf, and the Combatant Partisans of God claim responsibility for the bombing of this military center. Details June 25, 1996 Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia are Bombed A fuel truck was parked 35 yards away from a United States military compound. When the truck blew up 19 American soldiers were killed and 500 more people were wounded. The Movement for Islamic Change claimed responsibility for the bombing. Details August 07, 1998 Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania U.S. Embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania are Bombed These terrorist attacks happened almost at the same time. More than 5,000 people were injured and 224 were killed when the buildings that they were working in collapsed during the explosions. Details October 12, 2000 Aden, Yemen USS Cole Bombed The USS Cole was docked in Aden Yemen for refueling. A small craft pulled alongside the ship and two terrorists set off the bomb. The two terrorists were killed and so were 17 U.S. Navy seamen when the explosion blew a 20 by 40 foot hole in the side of the ship. Details September 11, 2001 New York City, Washington, D.C. World Trade Center is Destroyed and the Pentagon is Attacked Terrorists hijack 4 domestic flights from Boston airport. Two of the planes slam in to the two World Trade Center towers, causing them to collapse. A third flight crashes into the Pentagon, and a fourth crashes in Pennsylvania. Details "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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#56
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:37:35 -0400, "Proto" wrote:
I have no questions. Then why did you ask so many? Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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#57
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Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:37:35 -0400, "Proto" wrote: I have no questions. Then why did you ask so many? I only asked one and never got the answer. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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#58
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 05:30:23 -0400, "Proto" wrote:
Gunner wrote: On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:37:35 -0400, "Proto" wrote: I have no questions. Then why did you ask so many? I only asked one and never got the answer. sure you did. Gunner Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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#60
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 07:45:48 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner
spake: On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:59:43 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: Let's hope he recovers soon, before Shrub and followers push more than a billion otherwise mellow Arabs (and/or the hundreds of millions of sheeple here in the US) over the edge. Without the ****-stirring, the few Arab terrorists don't have the societal backing they need to continue their crap on nearly as large a front as they have now. Bush has been president since 1979? Q: Have global anti-American feelings increased or decreased since Shrub was put into office? A: Anyone but the blind or biased can see that the increase. Yes, we have been attempting to push the Arabs around longer and have had bases in their countries (which they hate with a religious ferver), but it wasn't until Shrub was in office that they (through bin Laden) categorically stated their main problems with us. By "they", I mean the relatively few terrorists, not all 1.5B Arabs. We've done nothing to appease their major objections: They want US bases off their soil, they want us to stop telling them what to do, etc. While removing these objections probably won't stop the terrorism, it will go a long way to removing their growing fears and anger and should stop most of it. The crazies will do as they've always done, but we have to stop giving them reasons to attack us. So, what do YOU do when a large bully pushes you around, Gunner? Your bias, your hate and your spew is noted. As is your apparent attempt at revisionism That bloody tape has been played so often for so long that I can now hear -scratches- on it. The hate is in Shrub's corner. I haven't killed 150+ thousand souls, putting at least that many families (if not 1000% more) into the growing armies of those who want to see us dead. Why do we _knowingly_ continue to fuel that flame? You and a few D.C. consultants & generals believe that (a few hard-core) Muslim leaders want our extinction. The rest of us, including the majority of D.C. consultants (from what I've read), don't. Who's right? Nobody will know until those in power here stop stirring the **** and fanning the flames. Biased, hatefully, and spewingly yours, LJ. -- REMEMBER: First you pillage, then you burn. --- http://diversify.com Full Service Website Development |
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#62
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On 26 May 2005 14:24:28 GMT, (Frank White)
wrote: I think for myself thank you veddyveddymuch. I still believe and practice personal responsiblity and adherence to honor, truth and justice. I refuse to believe this. You're an intelligent man and some of the things you've said recently are definately NOT intelligent. Somebody's influencing you. Somebody not too bright... You sound like you get your daily arguments via Fax from the DNC. (EXTREMELY heavy sigh) You're DOING it again! Insisting that anyone who disagrees with you is a leftist whack-hole! Or a Democrat, which you seem to think is the same thing. Listen. Listen carefully. I have something important to tell you. There is NO damn difference between Republicians and Democrats, these days! It's all cosmetic! They're both, at the core, power hungry nutbars whose answer to everything is to spend and spend YOUR money on THEIR pet projects, regardless of whether the money is coming from record deficits, record taxes, or both! If Kerry were in office he'd be doing EXACTLY the same things as Bush, except that instead of wanting to spend trillions privatizing Social Security, he'd probably want to spend trillions on national health insurance. THEY ARE THE SAME JERKS!!!!!!!!! You might want to take a red hot poker and burn 'No Difference' into your forehead so you don't keep forgetting that... Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner AGAIN with the 'older brother engaging in behavior modification through violence' motif! What are you trying to say here???? FW Your opinions are noted. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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#63
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 06:35:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: Bush has been president since 1979? Q: Have global anti-American feelings increased or decreased since Shrub was put into office? A: Anyone but the blind or biased can see that the increase. Yes, we have been attempting to push the Arabs around longer and have had bases in their countries (which they hate with a religious ferver), but it wasn't until Shrub was in office that they (through bin Laden) categorically stated their main problems with us. By "they", I mean the relatively few terrorists, not all 1.5B Arabs. We've done nothing to appease their major objections: They want US bases off their soil, they want us to stop telling them what to do, etc. While removing these objections probably won't stop the terrorism, it will go a long way to removing their growing fears and anger and should stop most of it. The crazies will do as they've always done, but we have to stop giving them reasons to attack us. So, what do YOU do when a large bully pushes you around, Gunner? Your bias, your hate and your spew is noted. As is your apparent attempt at revisionism That bloody tape has been played so often for so long that I can now hear -scratches- on it. The hate is in Shrub's corner. I haven't killed 150+ thousand souls, putting at least that many families (if not 1000% more) into the growing armies of those who want to see us dead. Why do we _knowingly_ continue to fuel that flame? You and a few D.C. consultants & generals believe that (a few hard-core) Muslim leaders want our extinction. The rest of us, including the majority of D.C. consultants (from what I've read), don't. Who's right? Nobody will know until those in power here stop stirring the **** and fanning the flames. Biased, hatefully, and spewingly yours, LJ. You snipped out all the attacks on the US that you claim are Bush's fault. Ill put them back in, just to be fair: November 4, 1979 Teran, Iran U.S. Embassy Taken Over A group of Iranian students who were angry at the United States attacked and seized its embassy in Tehran, Iran. They were supported by the countries leader, Ayatollah Khomeini. Details 1982 - 1991 Lebanon 18 Americans Kidnapped David Dodge was the president of the American University in Beirut. He was kidnapped the first time while he was on his way home from work. He was released, but he was kidnapped again. This time he was killed. His murder was called the most gruesome abduction, torture, and killing of a United States citizen. The terrorists videotaped his torture and murder. A group called the Organization of the Oppressed on Earth claimed responsibility, but the real suspects are the Hezbollah guerillas. Details April 18, 1983 Beirut, Lebanon Truck Bombing of U.S. Embassy A large vehicle packed with explosives is driven quickly into the U.S. Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes it kills 63 people. A group of terrorists called the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility. Details October 23, 1983 Beirut, Lebanon Truck Bombing of U.S. Marine Barracks A large truck bomb with 2,500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the U.S. Marine headquarters in Beirut. 241 U.S. servicement are killed when it expoldes. A French paratrooper base is blown up just a few minutes later and 58 French soldiers are killed. A terrorist group called the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility. Details December 12, 1983 Kuwait City, Kuwait U.S. Embassy Annex Attacked A truck loaded with explosives crashed into the U.S. Embassy anex in Kuwait. Four people were killed and at least 62 were injured. A terrorist group called the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility. Details September 20, 1984 Beirut, Lebanon U.S. Embassy Compound Attacked A van filled with explosives sped through several barriers and groups of U.S. soldiers and stopped about 30 feet in front of the embassy annex. The driver of the van and 12 soldiers and visitors to the annex were killed. A terrorist group called the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility. Details April 12, 1985 Madrid, Spain Restaurant Bombing A bomb exploded in a restaurant where U.S. soldiers liked to eat. The explosion killed 18 Spaniard citizens and injured 82 other people. Only 15 of the Americans were injured, but none were killed. Details June 13, 1985 Beirut, Lebanon/ Algiers, Algeria TWA Flight 847 This airliner took off in Rome, Italy, but was hijacked and forced to fly to Beirut, Lebanon. Mohammed Hamadei from the terrorist group Hezbollah, Hassan Izz-al-Din from Lebanon, and Ali Atwa another terrorist hijacked the plane. Details August 8, 1985 Frankfurt, Germany Rhein-Main Airbase Bombing Two Americans and 20 others are injured when a Volkswagon car loaded with explosives blew up at the U.S. Rhein-Main air base in Frankfurt, Germany. Two terrorist groups, West German Red Army faction and the French Direct Action, claimed responsibility for the bombing. Details October 7, 1985 Port Said, Egypt The Ship Achille Lauro is Hijacked Achille Lauro cruise ship hijacked by four Palistinian men who are members of the Palestine Liberation Organization. They murder a handicapped man from New York and throw his body overboard. Details November 23, 1985 Valeta, Malta Egyptair Flight 648 Hijacked Three Arab men from the terrorist group Abu Nidal Organization hijacked this plane and forced it to land in Valletta, Malta. There was a 30 hour standoff between the hijackers and the Egyptian comandos. Details December 27, 1985 Rome, Italy and Vienna, Austria Grenades and Guns are used to Massacre Passengers at Rome and Vienna Airport At the same time two groups of terrorists, one in Rome and one in Vienna, charge up to the counters of Israel's El Air airline. They throw grenades at the tourists getting ready to fly on the airline. Details April 02, 1986 Athens, Greece TWA Flight 840 Bombed As the plane was beginning to land in Athens a plastic explosive bomb exploded under the seat of the passenger sitting in seat 10F. Four people were killed and nine others were wounded. The terrorist group called Ezzedine Kassam Unit of the Arab Revolutionary Cells claimed responsibility.Details April 05, 1986 West Berlin La Belle Disco in Berlin Bombed The La Belle is a nightclub that was popular with the United States servicemen. Two United States soldiers and one Turkish woman were killed in the explosion December 21, 1988 Lockerbie, Scotland Pan Am Flight 103 Bombing The bomb that blew up this flight was packed in a small radio case. It was left on the plane by a terrorist that got off of the plane at an earlier stop. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terrorist group claimed responsibility. The bombing was carried out so that they could take revenge on America when one of its warships accidentally mistook a Palestinian passenger plane as a war plane and shot it down. Details January 25, 1993 Langley, Virginia CIA Employees in Langley, VA are Shot A Pakisini man, Mir Aimal Kasi, who lived in Virginia drove up to the CIA building in Langley, Virginia and shot two CIA agents. He was angry because he believed that the United States were mistreating Muslims who lived in the Middle East. Details February 26, 1993 New York, New York 1993 World Trade Center in New York Bombed A group of Muslim terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives and driven into the World Trade Center's underground parking garage. Six people were killed and more than 1,000 are injured in this terrorist attack Details November 13, 1995 Riyadh, Saudi Arabia U.S. Military Complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia is Bombed Seven people are killed when a powerful car bomb explodes in front of a military center run by the United States military. Three terrorist groups: Islamic Movement for Change, the Tigers of the Gulf, and the Combatant Partisans of God claim responsibility for the bombing of this military center. Details June 25, 1996 Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia are Bombed A fuel truck was parked 35 yards away from a United States military compound. When the truck blew up 19 American soldiers were killed and 500 more people were wounded. The Movement for Islamic Change claimed responsibility for the bombing. Details August 07, 1998 Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania U.S. Embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania are Bombed These terrorist attacks happened almost at the same time. More than 5,000 people were injured and 224 were killed when the buildings that they were working in collapsed during the explosions. Details October 12, 2000 Aden, Yemen USS Cole Bombed The USS Cole was docked in Aden Yemen for refueling. A small craft pulled alongside the ship and two terrorists set off the bomb. The two terrorists were killed and so were 17 U.S. Navy seamen when the explosion blew a 20 by 40 foot hole in the side of the ship. Details September 11, 2001 New York City, Washington, D.C. World Trade Center is Destroyed and the Pentagon is Attacked Terrorists hijack 4 domestic flights from Boston airport. Two of the planes slam in to the two World Trade Center towers, causing them to collapse. A third flight crashes into the Pentagon, and a fourth crashes in Pennsylvania. "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 15:37:36 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner
spake: On Thu, 26 May 2005 06:35:18 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: Bush has been president since 1979? Q: Have global anti-American feelings increased or decreased since Shrub was put into office? A: Anyone but the blind or biased can see that the increase. Yes, we have been attempting to push the Arabs around longer and have had bases in their countries (which they hate with a religious ferver), but it wasn't until Shrub was in office that they (through bin Laden) categorically stated their main problems with us. By "they", I mean the relatively few terrorists, not all 1.5B Arabs. We've done nothing to appease their major objections: They want US bases off their soil, they want us to stop telling them what to do, etc. While removing these objections probably won't stop the terrorism, it will go a long way to removing their growing fears and anger and should stop most of it. The crazies will do as they've always done, but we have to stop giving them reasons to attack us. So, what do YOU do when a large bully pushes you around, Gunner? Your bias, your hate and your spew is noted. As is your apparent attempt at revisionism That bloody tape has been played so often for so long that I can now hear -scratches- on it. The hate is in Shrub's corner. I haven't killed 150+ thousand souls, putting at least that many families (if not 1000% more) into the growing armies of those who want to see us dead. Why do we _knowingly_ continue to fuel that flame? You and a few D.C. consultants & generals believe that (a few hard-core) Muslim leaders want our extinction. The rest of us, including the majority of D.C. consultants (from what I've read), don't. Who's right? Nobody will know until those in power here stop stirring the **** and fanning the flames. Biased, hatefully, and spewingly yours, LJ. You snipped out all the attacks on the US that you claim are Bush's fault. I did no such thing. Reread my post without your twisting it this time, Gunner. I acknowledged that terrorists had been active prior to Shrub's reign but I'm worried about his causing a critical mass in the Islamic people which would ensure global wipeout of us OR them. Why have we failed to heed their pleas, requests, and finally warnings? Why has the US continued a known antagonistic policy with the Arab nations? Have you read "Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror" yet? (They're available inexpensively from www.Amazon.com, $0.64 paperback, $7.30 hardcover) Scheuer points out that it's our actions, not our values, that they hate. Why doesn't Washington take the bloody hint? Ill put them back in, just to be fair: If you didn't want to discuss it, why not say so? Why the silly games? OTOH, why didn't you address any of my questions or statements? November 4, 1979 Teran, Iran --tragic news snipped once again-- Going back to a time before we were trying to run Arab countries for them, how many terrorist attacks were there by them on us? Any? I don't recall any, but feel free to prove me wrong. Back to the immediate future, (when this "war" fails, and you know it's going to) the next war will be a downright nastyass job compared to this cakewalk. Got several years worth of stored food, water, and air yet? -- REMEMBER: First you pillage, then you burn. --- http://diversify.com Full Service Website Development |
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Gunner wrote:
On 26 May 2005 14:24:28 GMT, (Frank White) wrote: I think for myself thank you veddyveddymuch. I still believe and practice personal responsiblity and adherence to honor, truth and justice. I refuse to believe this. You're an intelligent man and some of the things you've said recently are definately NOT intelligent. Somebody's influencing you. Somebody not too bright... You sound like you get your daily arguments via Fax from the DNC. (EXTREMELY heavy sigh) You're DOING it again! Insisting that anyone who disagrees with you is a leftist whack-hole! Or a Democrat, which you seem to think is the same thing. Listen. Listen carefully. I have something important to tell you. There is NO damn difference between Republicians and Democrats, these days! It's all cosmetic! They're both, at the core, power hungry nutbars whose answer to everything is to spend and spend YOUR money on THEIR pet projects, regardless of whether the money is coming from record deficits, record taxes, or both! If Kerry were in office he'd be doing EXACTLY the same things as Bush, except that instead of wanting to spend trillions privatizing Social Security, he'd probably want to spend trillions on national health insurance. THEY ARE THE SAME JERKS!!!!!!!!! You might want to take a red hot poker and burn 'No Difference' into your forehead so you don't keep forgetting that... Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner AGAIN with the 'older brother engaging in behavior modification through violence' motif! What are you trying to say here???? FW Your opinions are noted. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner Hey Gunner, what kind of cat? |
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"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 May 2005 17:52:15 -0400, "Proto" wrote: Now we have high income pensioners with one or more pension fund drawing SS at the same time. This puts one hell of a drain on the system. How does their being able to collect money from another pension have anything to do with the SS trust fund? In a real sense this is true, just like there is no "retirement fund" at companies that have retirement plans (though employee-owned plans, such as 401K, actually do have retirement funds). Dan -- "...a terrorist would have to be really stupid to attack George's office, because the odds of George being there are so slim. " Ben Tripp |
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"Frank White" wrote Somebody's influencing you. Somebody not too bright... Don't fall into the trap that someone disseminating stupidity is therefore stupid. P. T. Barnum was a very intelligent person. Dan -- "...a terrorist would have to be really stupid to attack George's office, because the odds of George being there are so slim. " Ben Tripp |
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"Cliff" wrote in message ... On Sun, 22 May 2005 17:24:55 -0500, "shu" wrote: Shu, PLEASE LEARN HOW TO POST !!! REMOVE PRIOR CUTLINED SIGS !! THEN TRY NOT TOP-POSTING CUTLINES. awww, is the posting nazi upset with me, do you think i actually *care* what you think about the way i post?? You have far too much time on your hands. *bunch of moronic replies from cliff deleted here* BTW, Your spelling & suchlike seems to have improved. On the wagon? LOL ... sod off, ******. It was of very limited duration anyway it seems. Who REALLY wrote it? Cliff, I actually did it for you. I can write very well when I want to. I just love to (hear) you bitch about grammer, and spelling. Some of us have jobs, in the case of posts to CNC machines I generally have very little time to write anything at all, so your lucky to get what I give you. If you don't like the way I write, Stop reading it. ^_^ It's really that simple... ******** shu BTW, Have you considered getting an education? I've heard that some of the more liberal schools will allow you to wear your jackboots ... -- Cliff Btw have you considored getting your head examined? you have a mental disease of some sort.. a personality disorder at best. I'm thinking of sticking you back on ignore, your creeping back towards ad hominem. ********** shu |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:36:39 -0500, "shu" wrote:
"Cliff" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 22 May 2005 17:24:55 -0500, "shu" wrote: Shu, PLEASE LEARN HOW TO POST !!! REMOVE PRIOR CUTLINED SIGS !! THEN TRY NOT TOP-POSTING CUTLINES. awww, is the posting nazi upset with me, do you think i actually *care* what you think about the way i post?? You have far too much time on your hands. Well, I don't... plink with prejudice |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:36:39 -0500, "shu" wrote:
BTW, Have you considered getting an education? I've heard that some of the more liberal schools will allow you to wear your jackboots ... -- Cliff Such a slow learner, like most whining wingers. [ Shu, PLEASE LEARN HOW TO POST !!! REMOVE PRIOR CUTLINED SIGS !! THEN TRY NOT TOP-POSTING CUTLINES. ] Btw have you considored getting your head examined? you have a mental disease of some sort.. a personality disorder at best. I'm thinking of sticking you back on ignore, your creeping back towards ad hominem. Was it the jackboots? What color are they? Red? -- Cliff |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 15:50:16 -0400, "Proto" wrote:
Gunner wrote: On 26 May 2005 14:24:28 GMT, (Frank White) wrote: I think for myself thank you veddyveddymuch. I still believe and practice personal responsiblity and adherence to honor, truth and justice. I refuse to believe this. You're an intelligent man and some of the things you've said recently are definately NOT intelligent. Somebody's influencing you. Somebody not too bright... You sound like you get your daily arguments via Fax from the DNC. (EXTREMELY heavy sigh) You're DOING it again! Insisting that anyone who disagrees with you is a leftist whack-hole! Or a Democrat, which you seem to think is the same thing. Listen. Listen carefully. I have something important to tell you. There is NO damn difference between Republicians and Democrats, these days! It's all cosmetic! They're both, at the core, power hungry nutbars whose answer to everything is to spend and spend YOUR money on THEIR pet projects, regardless of whether the money is coming from record deficits, record taxes, or both! If Kerry were in office he'd be doing EXACTLY the same things as Bush, except that instead of wanting to spend trillions privatizing Social Security, he'd probably want to spend trillions on national health insurance. THEY ARE THE SAME JERKS!!!!!!!!! You might want to take a red hot poker and burn 'No Difference' into your forehead so you don't keep forgetting that... Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner AGAIN with the 'older brother engaging in behavior modification through violence' motif! What are you trying to say here???? FW Your opinions are noted. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner Hey Gunner, what kind of cat? Any kind. They are all good. Particularly with a good white wine. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:38:23 -0500, "shu" wrote:
Ed, do you seriously think you're going to get out, what you put in to social security? do you think social security is an issue to be ignored? Don't you trip over the jackboots with your head screwed on backwards? Do you expect to make a profit on your health or term life insurance? If we, the taxpayers, do not pay a bit for all who will? The neocons will just do it with their deficits, right? And who, in the end, will pay for those? -- Cliff |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 23:49:46 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote: On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:36:39 -0500, "shu" wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message . .. On Sun, 22 May 2005 17:24:55 -0500, "shu" wrote: Shu, PLEASE LEARN HOW TO POST !!! REMOVE PRIOR CUTLINED SIGS !! THEN TRY NOT TOP-POSTING CUTLINES. awww, is the posting nazi upset with me, do you think i actually *care* what you think about the way i post?? You have far too much time on your hands. Well, I don't... plink with prejudice Aw, Bob, she's really not that bad. Probably even kind of cute in those boots ..... -- Cliff |
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On Fri, 27 May 2005 02:25:03 -0400, Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 23:49:46 -0400, Bob Brock wrote: On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:36:39 -0500, "shu" wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message ... On Sun, 22 May 2005 17:24:55 -0500, "shu" wrote: Shu, PLEASE LEARN HOW TO POST !!! REMOVE PRIOR CUTLINED SIGS !! THEN TRY NOT TOP-POSTING CUTLINES. awww, is the posting nazi upset with me, do you think i actually *care* what you think about the way i post?? You have far too much time on your hands. Well, I don't... plink with prejudice Aw, Bob, she's really not that bad. Probably even kind of cute in those boots ..... No enough time to waste on children and/or fools Cliff. Since he doesn't mind being foolish and I don't have too much time on my hands, I'll ignore him. Now, bummer being both a fool and childish is a pet project. Him I will make time for, but not too much. His posts do more to make the neo-cons and bush look like a close minded and foolish sect that has taken over the white house than most people could do if they tried. I hope he keeps up the good work. |
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