Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old May 2nd 05, 02:10 AM
Grant Erwin
 
Posts: n/a
Default designs for a better shop crane?

I use an engine hoist in my shop to move machines around. I originally rented
them as I needed them for about $35/day but that got old. Then I got a 2-ton
old-school import engine hoist. It worked OK but took up a ton of room in
my shop. Next I moved to a 2-ton folding model, which I have now. It works
OK but there is less room between the legs than the non-folding model, and
really, there isn't enough room between the legs. Also, it's built very
lightly and so to lift 2 tons you have to retract the boom fully, and I
need the capability to lift 2 tons with a boom as long as mine is fully
extended. The answer is to fabricate one, which I can certainly do. I'm
wondering if other guys have "been there done that" and can give me any
pointers. I have a bit of steel in my scrap rack at present that I'd like
to use up, and this would be a useful way to do it.

GWE

  #2   Report Post  
Old May 2nd 05, 02:34 AM
ATP*
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I use an engine hoist in my shop to move machines around. I originally
rented
them as I needed them for about $35/day but that got old. Then I got a
2-ton
old-school import engine hoist. It worked OK but took up a ton of room in
my shop. Next I moved to a 2-ton folding model, which I have now. It works
OK but there is less room between the legs than the non-folding model, and
really, there isn't enough room between the legs. Also, it's built very
lightly and so to lift 2 tons you have to retract the boom fully, and I
need the capability to lift 2 tons with a boom as long as mine is fully
extended. The answer is to fabricate one, which I can certainly do. I'm
wondering if other guys have "been there done that" and can give me any
pointers. I have a bit of steel in my scrap rack at present that I'd like
to use up, and this would be a useful way to do it.

GWE


I saw a hinged I-beam on a column at an auction. It was a beam with a
trolley on it but one end was hinged and the other was free. Sort of like a
swinging gantry crane. I'm probably not describing it clearly enough,
essentially it gave you freedom to pick up, move and lower objects anywhere
within a semicircle of about ten foot radius. IIRC it was at least one ton
capacity, maybe two. It looked like the ideal solution to me if you could
set up a strong enough column. A simpler way would be a rolling gantry
crane, if you have the room in the shop, or an I-beam that extends the
length of the shop and outside to a point where you can unload treasures.


  #3   Report Post  
Old May 2nd 05, 04:42 AM
Roger Shoaf
 
Posts: n/a
Default

How about something simple like an A frame? If you designed this right, you
could rig it to do the lifting, then slip dollies under what ever you needed
to move. When not needed, You could fold it up and stow it.


--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.


"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I use an engine hoist in my shop to move machines around. I originally

rented
them as I needed them for about $35/day but that got old. Then I got a

2-ton
old-school import engine hoist. It worked OK but took up a ton of room in
my shop. Next I moved to a 2-ton folding model, which I have now. It works
OK but there is less room between the legs than the non-folding model, and
really, there isn't enough room between the legs. Also, it's built very
lightly and so to lift 2 tons you have to retract the boom fully, and I
need the capability to lift 2 tons with a boom as long as mine is fully
extended. The answer is to fabricate one, which I can certainly do. I'm
wondering if other guys have "been there done that" and can give me any
pointers. I have a bit of steel in my scrap rack at present that I'd like
to use up, and this would be a useful way to do it.

GWE



  #4   Report Post  
Old May 2nd 05, 05:05 AM
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It's called a Jib Crane. --Doozer

  #5   Report Post  
Old May 2nd 05, 05:34 AM
Richard J Kinch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Grant Erwin writes:

The answer is to fabricate one, which I can certainly do. I'm
wondering if other guys have "been there done that" and can give me any
pointers.


I've bookmarked this for a while:

http://www.plansandprojects.com/portable.htm

The problem with this type of thing is that any error in design or
execution is a potential disaster, assuming you use it at the capacities
you're describing.

The problem is one of engineering, so I would be leery of any design that
wasn't "engineered" in the strictest sense of carefully calculated and
tested, not just guessed at or overbuilt.


  #6   Report Post  
Old May 2nd 05, 07:26 AM
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 01 May 2005 22:34:24 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Grant Erwin writes:

The answer is to fabricate one, which I can certainly do. I'm
wondering if other guys have "been there done that" and can give me any
pointers.


I've bookmarked this for a while:

http://www.plansandprojects.com/portable.htm

The problem with this type of thing is that any error in design or
execution is a potential disaster, assuming you use it at the capacities
you're describing.

The problem is one of engineering, so I would be leery of any design that
wasn't "engineered" in the strictest sense of carefully calculated and
tested, not just guessed at or overbuilt.



Around here, most of the serious motorheads have a shop crane..nothing
more than a pair of A legs with a 10' piece of 4" pipe across them.
The fancy ones use a pair of stubs welded as sockets below the 4" pipe
so you can push it over and break it down. Few do though.

Mine is an H frame made of 3" oilfield pipe, , but with A legs,
carrying a piece of 8" I beam 10 foot long. Its 12 ft tall. Socketed
so I can break it down if I wanted to. I actually put the I beam up
with my Carolina 2 ton engine hoist and a short extention added to the
already extended boom.

I needed the height to remove tall machines from my trailer and have
overhead room to lift with the 2 ton Yale electric hoist on I beam
trolly car.

Some of the guys here make theirs in the A frame style, and then put
dollys under them using small boat tires. Move to where you want, jack
it up a couple inches, remove the dolly and set it down, repeat on the
other side. Half the time, they never remove the tires, just block em
so they dont roll.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke
  #7   Report Post  
Old May 2nd 05, 09:11 AM
Grant Erwin
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm obviously not writing clearly. I need to move machines INSIDE my
shop, under an 8 foot ceiling. The heavy ones are a Bridgeport mill and
a KO Lee surface grinder. I want to clone an engine hoist but with a
design modified to be more suitable to my application. For example, it
needn't be light weight to move from one site to another easily.

I bookmarked Ron Thompson's A-frame idea years ago. It's pretty simple,
which often means it makes a lot of sense. But I want to stick with
hydraulics especially since I invested in a nice air over hydraulic 8 ton
long throw cylinder so now to use my hoist I just hook up shop air and
push a button.

Grant

Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2005 22:34:24 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:


Grant Erwin writes:


The answer is to fabricate one, which I can certainly do. I'm
wondering if other guys have "been there done that" and can give me any
pointers.


I've bookmarked this for a while:

http://www.plansandprojects.com/portable.htm

The problem with this type of thing is that any error in design or
execution is a potential disaster, assuming you use it at the capacities
you're describing.

The problem is one of engineering, so I would be leery of any design that
wasn't "engineered" in the strictest sense of carefully calculated and
tested, not just guessed at or overbuilt.




Around here, most of the serious motorheads have a shop crane..nothing
more than a pair of A legs with a 10' piece of 4" pipe across them.
The fancy ones use a pair of stubs welded as sockets below the 4" pipe
so you can push it over and break it down. Few do though.

Mine is an H frame made of 3" oilfield pipe, , but with A legs,
carrying a piece of 8" I beam 10 foot long. Its 12 ft tall. Socketed
so I can break it down if I wanted to. I actually put the I beam up
with my Carolina 2 ton engine hoist and a short extention added to the
already extended boom.

I needed the height to remove tall machines from my trailer and have
overhead room to lift with the 2 ton Yale electric hoist on I beam
trolly car.

Some of the guys here make theirs in the A frame style, and then put
dollys under them using small boat tires. Move to where you want, jack
it up a couple inches, remove the dolly and set it down, repeat on the
other side. Half the time, they never remove the tires, just block em
so they dont roll.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

  #8   Report Post  
Old May 2nd 05, 10:04 AM
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 02 May 2005 00:11:11 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:

I'm obviously not writing clearly. I need to move machines INSIDE my
shop, under an 8 foot ceiling. The heavy ones are a Bridgeport mill and
a KO Lee surface grinder. I want to clone an engine hoist but with a
design modified to be more suitable to my application. For example, it
needn't be light weight to move from one site to another easily.

I bookmarked Ron Thompson's A-frame idea years ago. It's pretty simple,
which often means it makes a lot of sense. But I want to stick with
hydraulics especially since I invested in a nice air over hydraulic 8 ton
long throw cylinder so now to use my hoist I just hook up shop air and
push a button.

Grant


oooops.

Thats going to be a good trick with an 8' ceiling. I think you would
be better off with dollys. Shrug. Ill cogitate on this a bit.

Gunner


Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2005 22:34:24 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:


Grant Erwin writes:


The answer is to fabricate one, which I can certainly do. I'm
wondering if other guys have "been there done that" and can give me any
pointers.

I've bookmarked this for a while:

http://www.plansandprojects.com/portable.htm

The problem with this type of thing is that any error in design or
execution is a potential disaster, assuming you use it at the capacities
you're describing.

The problem is one of engineering, so I would be leery of any design that
wasn't "engineered" in the strictest sense of carefully calculated and
tested, not just guessed at or overbuilt.




Around here, most of the serious motorheads have a shop crane..nothing
more than a pair of A legs with a 10' piece of 4" pipe across them.
The fancy ones use a pair of stubs welded as sockets below the 4" pipe
so you can push it over and break it down. Few do though.

Mine is an H frame made of 3" oilfield pipe, , but with A legs,
carrying a piece of 8" I beam 10 foot long. Its 12 ft tall. Socketed
so I can break it down if I wanted to. I actually put the I beam up
with my Carolina 2 ton engine hoist and a short extention added to the
already extended boom.

I needed the height to remove tall machines from my trailer and have
overhead room to lift with the 2 ton Yale electric hoist on I beam
trolly car.

Some of the guys here make theirs in the A frame style, and then put
dollys under them using small boat tires. Move to where you want, jack
it up a couple inches, remove the dolly and set it down, repeat on the
other side. Half the time, they never remove the tires, just block em
so they dont roll.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke
  #9   Report Post  
Old May 2nd 05, 03:30 PM
Pete C.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 02 May 2005 00:11:11 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:

I'm obviously not writing clearly. I need to move machines INSIDE my
shop, under an 8 foot ceiling. The heavy ones are a Bridgeport mill and
a KO Lee surface grinder. I want to clone an engine hoist but with a
design modified to be more suitable to my application. For example, it
needn't be light weight to move from one site to another easily.

I bookmarked Ron Thompson's A-frame idea years ago. It's pretty simple,
which often means it makes a lot of sense. But I want to stick with
hydraulics especially since I invested in a nice air over hydraulic 8 ton
long throw cylinder so now to use my hoist I just hook up shop air and
push a button.

Grant


oooops.

Thats going to be a good trick with an 8' ceiling. I think you would
be better off with dollys. Shrug. Ill cogitate on this a bit.

Gunner


Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2005 22:34:24 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:


Grant Erwin writes:


The answer is to fabricate one, which I can certainly do. I'm
wondering if other guys have "been there done that" and can give me any
pointers.

I've bookmarked this for a while:

http://www.plansandprojects.com/portable.htm

The problem with this type of thing is that any error in design or
execution is a potential disaster, assuming you use it at the capacities
you're describing.

The problem is one of engineering, so I would be leery of any design that
wasn't "engineered" in the strictest sense of carefully calculated and
tested, not just guessed at or overbuilt.



Around here, most of the serious motorheads have a shop crane..nothing
more than a pair of A legs with a 10' piece of 4" pipe across them.
The fancy ones use a pair of stubs welded as sockets below the 4" pipe
so you can push it over and break it down. Few do though.

Mine is an H frame made of 3" oilfield pipe, , but with A legs,
carrying a piece of 8" I beam 10 foot long. Its 12 ft tall. Socketed
so I can break it down if I wanted to. I actually put the I beam up
with my Carolina 2 ton engine hoist and a short extention added to the
already extended boom.

I needed the height to remove tall machines from my trailer and have
overhead room to lift with the 2 ton Yale electric hoist on I beam
trolly car.

Some of the guys here make theirs in the A frame style, and then put
dollys under them using small boat tires. Move to where you want, jack
it up a couple inches, remove the dolly and set it down, repeat on the
other side. Half the time, they never remove the tires, just block em
so they dont roll.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke


How about doing the rolling gantry style, but using the adjustable
height design and using the hydraulics to telescope both sides of the
gantry. That way you don't need to use any of the headroom to
accommodate a chain hoist. Just lower the gantry beam to an inch above
the item, chain with as many points as needed and then telescope the
whole thing up.

The air-hydraulic jacks would sync you on the up stroke, but down would
be a bit tricky. Probably work best with two basic cylinders and a
separate manual or air-over pump so you have a single lowering valve.
You could probably dig a cable/chain leveling mechanism if needed.

Pete C.
  #10   Report Post  
Old May 2nd 05, 03:46 PM
jim rozen
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , Gunner says...

Around here, most of the serious motorheads have a shop crane..nothing
more than a pair of A legs with a 10' piece of 4" pipe across them.
The fancy ones use a pair of stubs welded as sockets below the 4" pipe
so you can push it over and break it down. Few do though.

Mine is an H frame made of 3" oilfield pipe, , but with A legs,
carrying a piece of 8" I beam 10 foot long. Its 12 ft tall. Socketed
so I can break it down if I wanted to. I actually put the I beam up
with my Carolina 2 ton engine hoist and a short extention added to the
already extended boom.


I want to build a setup like this - the riggers here use just such
an A-frame.

A steel I beam that spans pipe legs. They made up a plate for each
end out of U-channel, with 2.5 inch pipe sockets welded on at a slightly
compund angle (so the legs splay slightly to the sides) and they use
2 inch pipe as the legs.

Each plate is held to the I beam end with threaded rod, going up to
another plain flat steel plate. The whole setup breaks down quite
nicely, they run a hoist on a trolley on the beam.

I figured when I make it, I'll try to tie the legs together across
the sides to stiffen it, with a bolt-on connection.

Basically I'm waiting for the local voc-tech school welding class
to kick in. Wed nites, 6 to 9 every week. I might be close to
knowing how to arc weld after a few months!

But the knock-down feature is nice, that way I can store it in the
back of the garage as a bunch of linear sticks until needed.

Jim


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JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
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