I wonder why those charged with improving homeland security don't
employ professionals to advise them.

I say that tongue-in-cheek: professionals are not known for P.C.

We must work with the system we have, but I'm dismayed by the
incompentence.

The trigger here is the recent ban against a carryon BIC lighter.
Good grief! I suppose a BIC could be used as a weapon, but
prohibiting them doesn't present even a minor nuisance to a
professional.

In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:

I wonder why those charged with improving homeland security don't
employ professionals to advise them.

I say that tongue-in-cheek: professionals are not known for P.C.

We must work with the system we have, but I'm dismayed by the
incompentence.

We have no system that gives any security, just hasseling to convince
low IQ voters that SOMETHING is being done. 9/11 would never have
happened if there were NO airport security.


The trigger here is the recent ban against a carryon BIC lighter.
Good grief! I suppose a BIC could be used as a weapon, but
prohibiting them doesn't present even a minor nuisance to a
professional.



--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:53:39 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

I wonder why those charged with improving homeland security don't
employ professionals to advise them.

I say that tongue-in-cheek: professionals are not known for P.C.

We must work with the system we have, but I'm dismayed by the
incompentence.

The trigger here is the recent ban against a carryon BIC lighter.
Good grief! I suppose a BIC could be used as a weapon, but
prohibiting them doesn't present even a minor nuisance to a
professional.


AND you can still carry on book matches. It is a joke. How many metal
barrel ballpoint pens are run through the scanner? Ever wonder what's
inside?

A Navy Seal could walk on a plane naked and find a hundred things to
use as weapons.

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:27:07 GMT, Andy Asberry
wrote:


A Navy Seal could walk on a plane naked and find a hundred things to
use as weapons.

Yes, and it is quite easy to make very small deadly weapons containing
no metal that are transparent to Xray. I'm not talking silly baggie
bombes here. That's my point: retaining some professional consult
could result in greatly improved effectiveness at much lower wasted
cost of employing the inept to inspect the inconsequential. I think
focus is badly lacking and badly needed.

In article , Andy Asberry says...

A Navy Seal could walk on a plane naked and find a hundred things to
use as weapons.

Don't start. That'll be the next step. All passengers must
strip to the skin and be anesthetized before takeoff....

I remember when flying used to be fun.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

You are SO missing the point.

The main purpose is not to increase "security".

As the original poster pointed out, if there were abso-freakin-lutely
NO security at all 9/11 would never have happened, someone would
have greased those ragheads before they even got on the plane! The
MAIN reason the camel-jockeys suceeded is the attitude of don't do
anything yourself, just cooperate and let the government handle the
situation and everything will be O.K. Result? 4,000 U.S. dead and
war in Afghanistan and Iraq. To prevent people from thinking about
protecting themselves the government is saying, O.K. we made a little
mistake but now we have Heimatland Sicherheitsdienst so just follow
orders and do what we say and everything will be O.K. but whatever
you do NEVER think about protecting yourself because that's just
nonsense and if you do we'll make sure you regret it, if you survive.


Don Foreman wrote in
:

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:27:07 GMT, Andy Asberry
wrote:


A Navy Seal could walk on a plane naked and find a hundred
things to use as weapons.

Yes, and it is quite easy to make very small deadly weapons
containing no metal that are transparent to Xray. I'm not
talking silly baggie bombes here. That's my point:
retaining some professional consult could result in greatly
improved effectiveness at much lower wasted cost of employing
the inept to inspect the inconsequential. I think focus is
badly lacking and badly needed.

In article , H.C. Minh says...

... but now we have Heimatland Sicherheitsdienst so just follow
orders...

OK, ya got a laugh out of me there.

... and do what we say and everything will be O.K. but whatever
you do NEVER think about protecting yourself because that's just
nonsense and if you do we'll make sure you regret it, if you survive.

Interestingly that's a pretty good description of what happened
in the one plane that was going to hit the white house. a)They
thought about protecting themselves, b) they didn't survive.
Too bad the other planes didn't have the same end.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Don Foreman says...

... That's my point: retaining some professional consult
could result in greatly improved effectiveness at much lower wasted
cost of employing the inept to inspect the inconsequential. I think
focus is badly lacking and badly needed.

"Employing the Inept, to inspect the Inconsequential."

You have just made a defining statement, Don!

I like this.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:27:07 GMT, Andy Asberry
wrote:


The trigger here is the recent ban against a carryon BIC lighter.
Good grief! I suppose a BIC could be used as a weapon, but
prohibiting them doesn't present even a minor nuisance to a
professional.


AND you can still carry on book matches. It is a joke. How many metal
barrel ballpoint pens are run through the scanner? Ever wonder what's
inside?

A Navy Seal could walk on a plane naked and find a hundred things to
use as weapons.


Not only Seals.

Gunner

"The Democratic Party is the party of this popular corruption.
The heart of the Democratic Party and its activist core is
made up of government unions, government dependent professions
(teachers, social workers, civil servants); special interest and
special benefits groups (abortion rights, is a good example) that
feed off the government trough; and ethnic constituencies,
African Americans being the most prominent, who are
disproportionately invested in government jobs and
in programs that government provides.

" The Democratic Party credo is 'Take as much of the people's money as politically feasible, and use that money to buy as many of the people's votes as possible'.
Tax cuts are a threat to this Democratic agenda.
Consequently, Democrats loathe and despise them."
-Semi-reformed Leftist David Horowitz

On 17 Apr 2005 06:19:37 -0700, the inscrutable jim rozen
spake:

In article , Andy Asberry says...

A Navy Seal could walk on a plane naked and find a hundred things to
use as weapons.

Don't start. That'll be the next step. All passengers must
strip to the skin and be anesthetized before takeoff....

You haven't seen this airline?
http://www.naked-air.com/


I remember when flying used to be fun.

Ditto. No more, though. Maybe I'll Fly Naked next time.


-------------------------------------------------------
"i" before "e", except after "c", what a weird society.
----
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On 17 Apr 2005 06:19:37 -0700, the inscrutable jim rozen
spake:

In article , Andy Asberry
says...

A Navy Seal could walk on a plane naked and find a hundred things to
use as weapons.

Don't start. That'll be the next step. All passengers must
strip to the skin and be anesthetized before takeoff....

You haven't seen this airline?
http://www.naked-air.com/


I remember when flying used to be fun.

Ditto. No more, though. Maybe I'll Fly Naked next time.

Or you can just phuket, on Phuket Air. The BBC says it's the worst airline
in the world:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4407767.stm

--
Ed Huntress

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Andy Asberry
wrote back on Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:27:07 GMT in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:53:39 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

I wonder why those charged with improving homeland security don't
employ professionals to advise them.

I say that tongue-in-cheek: professionals are not known for P.C.

We must work with the system we have, but I'm dismayed by the
incompentence.

The trigger here is the recent ban against a carryon BIC lighter.
Good grief! I suppose a BIC could be used as a weapon, but
prohibiting them doesn't present even a minor nuisance to a
professional.

AND you can still carry on book matches. It is a joke. How many metal
barrel ballpoint pens are run through the scanner? Ever wonder what's
inside?

A Navy Seal could walk on a plane naked and find a hundred things to
use as weapons.

"I am the weapon. The gun is just a tool."

tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

From what it sounded like, the folks on the fourth plane figured out
from cell phone conversations that they had nothing to lose.

Never leave people with no options and their back against the wall.

I also consider the airport security we have today to be a joke.

Considering that fact, it makes one wonder why we haven't seen other
terrorist attempts yet.

My guess the next terrorist incident when and not if it happens will
make 9/11 look insignificant in comparsion.

TMT

On 17 Apr 2005 21:56:40 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

From what it sounded like, the folks on the fourth plane figured out
from cell phone conversations that they had nothing to lose.

Never leave people with no options and their back against the wall.

A number of unruly passengers learned that no one on airplanes takes
it very well anymore when they act up. Seems the passengers tend to
stomp the **** out of them.


I also consider the airport security we have today to be a joke.

Considering that fact, it makes one wonder why we haven't seen other
terrorist attempts yet.

My guess the next terrorist incident when and not if it happens will
make 9/11 look insignificant in comparsion.

TMT

How so? There are no WMDs. Ask any Liberal.

Gunner


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

jim rozen writes:

In article , Don Foreman says...

... That's my point: retaining some professional consult
could result in greatly improved effectiveness at much lower wasted
cost of employing the inept to inspect the inconsequential. I think
focus is badly lacking and badly needed.

"Employing the Inept, to inspect the Inconsequential."

You have just made a defining statement, Don!

I like this.

I just connected thru JFK from Athens towards Baltimore- bloody amateur
hour. Still have to take off the shoes for some crap reason. I sure
wish the Homeland Security brass had to fly coach with the rest of us
slobs, it would improve the situation right away.

Gregm

In article . com,
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote:

From what it sounded like, the folks on the fourth plane figured out
from cell phone conversations that they had nothing to lose.

Never leave people with no options and their back against the wall.

I also consider the airport security we have today to be a joke.

Considering that fact, it makes one wonder why we haven't seen other
terrorist attempts yet.

My guess the next terrorist incident when and not if it happens will
make 9/11 look insignificant in comparsion.

TMT


We have seen no other terrorist attempts because there are no terrorists
in the US. When DC needs a terrorist act for new legislation the
terrorists will strike again.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:02:49 -0400, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article . com,
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote:

From what it sounded like, the folks on the fourth plane figured out
from cell phone conversations that they had nothing to lose.

Never leave people with no options and their back against the wall.

I also consider the airport security we have today to be a joke.

Considering that fact, it makes one wonder why we haven't seen other
terrorist attempts yet.

My guess the next terrorist incident when and not if it happens will
make 9/11 look insignificant in comparsion.

TMT


We have seen no other terrorist attempts because there are no terrorists
in the US. When DC needs a terrorist act for new legislation the
terrorists will strike again.


Right. The Illuminati, or the DNC, or the Keebler Elves will hire
some contractors and do it up proud.

http://usability.typepad.com/confusa...um_foil_d.html

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:56:01 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 17 Apr 2005 21:56:40 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

My guess the next terrorist incident when and not if it happens will
make 9/11 look insignificant in comparsion.

How so? There are no WMDs. Ask any Liberal.

Well now, they only say that when they want to attack Bush. Before, they
were in agreement. Ah well.

How can you say this. No more fingernail clippers, tweezers or
lighters on the planes. Makes me feel more secure just to type
this.

GmcD
On 17 Apr 2005 21:56:40 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

From what it sounded like, the folks on the fourth plane figured out
from cell phone conversations that they had nothing to lose.

Never leave people with no options and their back against the wall.

I also consider the airport security we have today to be a joke.

Considering that fact, it makes one wonder why we haven't seen other
terrorist attempts yet.

My guess the next terrorist incident when and not if it happens will
make 9/11 look insignificant in comparsion.

TMT

Andy Asberry wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:53:39 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:


I wonder why those charged with improving homeland security don't
employ professionals to advise them.

I say that tongue-in-cheek: professionals are not known for P.C.

We must work with the system we have, but I'm dismayed by the
incompentence.

The trigger here is the recent ban against a carryon BIC lighter.
Good grief! I suppose a BIC could be used as a weapon, but
prohibiting them doesn't present even a minor nuisance to a
professional.



AND you can still carry on book matches. It is a joke. How many metal
barrel ballpoint pens are run through the scanner? Ever wonder what's
inside?

A Navy Seal could walk on a plane naked and find a hundred things to
use as weapons.

No kidding! Do you know that there are about four (varies with aircraft
type) fire axes in overhead compartments in the passenger cabin of all
passenger aircraft? Well, actually they are more like hatchets, the
real fire axe is in the cockpit. But, those things look REALLY deadly
to me!

If you doubt it, look into the overhead compartment where the flight
attendant gets the sample oxygen mask and seat belt for the cabin
safety demonstration. There's a lot of pretty dangerous stuff in there
that they wouldn't even let you check for the luggage compartment.

Jon

Don Foreman wrote:

snipped

The trigger here is the recent ban against a carryon BIC lighter.
Good grief! I suppose a BIC could be used as a weapon, but
prohibiting them doesn't present even a minor nuisance to a
professional.




But just think how happy it must make the decendents of Baron Marcel
Bich. I bet a lot of travelers are going to be buying replacements for
their confiscated or left at home BIC lighters after they reach their
destinations.

http://www.bicworld.com/inter_en/cor...hist_baron.asp

***

It's always seemed to me one of these knives could be pretty easy to
sneak through security without a strip search:

http://www.metrokitchen.com/store/d-...arch=KJ-OK-100

***

The first time I flew after 9-11 I forgot what was on my key ring and
lost the powdwerless and primerless .44 Magnum "Dirty Harry" souvenir
round which had resided there longer than I could remember.

It had an inch of bead chain coming right out of the primer hole linking
it to my keyring, but the oafs at airport security confiscated it anyway.

***

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:05:02 -0400, the inscrutable Jeff Wisnia
spake:

Don Foreman wrote:

snipped

The trigger here is the recent ban against a carryon BIC lighter.
Good grief! I suppose a BIC could be used as a weapon, but
prohibiting them doesn't present even a minor nuisance to a
professional.

Howzbout 2" pocket knives, which are also banned? I walked on board
right past the DHS inspector (his eyes were 18" from my pocket) with a
9' sharpened pencil sticking out of my shirt pocket. A 9" wood/lead
weapon is OK, but a 1" steel is not? Logic comes into contact with the
DHS regs at no point in time.


But just think how happy it must make the decendents of Baron Marcel
Bich. I bet a lot of travelers are going to be buying replacements for
their confiscated or left at home BIC lighters after they reach their
destinations.

Ditto knives, fingernail files, non-rounded scissors, etc.
sigh


It's always seemed to me one of these knives could be pretty easy to
sneak through security without a strip search:

http://www.metrokitchen.com/store/d-...arch=KJ-OK-100

I have one of those (different brand, Eagle) and LOVE IT!
I wouldn'teven think of taking it on a plane with me, though.


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