Tuesday nights Breaking Vegas was on counterfeiting slot tokens with and EDM
and a big press. First ten minutes have the metal part. It should repeat
later in the week.
Karl

I saw it. It was interesting. First thing he learned was that the
form was only part of the problem. He needed to get an exact duplicate
of the material as well.

If you caught the trailer, they noted that they don't know how many of
his "dupes" are still in circulation. The mint that makes the real
tokens couldn't even tell which ones were fake for sure.

The only way they figured out that someone was counterfeiting tokens
was that they were way over inventory on tokens. During the monthly
audits to determine how many had been lost or damaged they instead came
$24,000 over. Big red flag.

JW

"jw" wrote in message
oups.com...
I saw it. It was interesting. First thing he learned was that the
form was only part of the problem. He needed to get an exact duplicate
of the material as well.

If you caught the trailer, they noted that they don't know how many of
his "dupes" are still in circulation. The mint that makes the real
tokens couldn't even tell which ones were fake for sure.

The only way they figured out that someone was counterfeiting tokens
was that they were way over inventory on tokens. During the monthly
audits to determine how many had been lost or damaged they instead came
$24,000 over. Big red flag.

JW

Would they take you into a back room and crush body parts if they suspected
you were minting your own tokens?

"Karl Vorwerk" wrote in message
...
Tuesday nights Breaking Vegas was on counterfeiting slot tokens with and
EDM
and a big press. First ten minutes have the metal part. It should repeat
later in the week.
Karl


I liked the part of him becoming an advisor to the US Mint while he was in
jail. Pretty good show...

In article , Karl
Vorwerk says...

Tuesday nights Breaking Vegas was on counterfeiting slot tokens with and EDM
and a big press.

One can fabricate a pretty realistic immitation of a parking lot
token with only a turret lathe. Fits the local hospital 'five
bucks to part here' machine. So I've been told.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Karl Vorwerk wrote:

... counterfeiting slot tokens with and EDM ...

I thought it was interesting that they showed him cutting the dies with
the EDM, but didn't say anything about he drove the EDM. I.e., how he
measured/scanned the "real" token to get the digital representation.
Maybe the EDM has a built-in scanner, for copying parts. Anybody know?

Bob

On 6 Apr 2005 08:07:35 -0700, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Karl
Vorwerk says...

Tuesday nights Breaking Vegas was on counterfeiting slot tokens with and EDM
and a big press.

One can fabricate a pretty realistic immitation of a parking lot
token with only a turret lathe. Fits the local hospital 'five
bucks to part here' machine. So I've been told.

I also heard somewhere that a Belgian 5 Franc piece is the same size as
a US quarter, but is only worth about 8 cents. So I've been told.
I also have heard that parking meters have little windows where you can
see the last two coins put in. Not mentioning this for any reason, nope.

In article , Dave Hinz says...

I also heard somewhere that a Belgian 5 Franc piece is the same size as
a US quarter, but is only worth about 8 cents.

Wasn't that the famous CT turnpike toll scam?

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 6 Apr 2005 09:29:23 -0700, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Dave Hinz says...

I also heard somewhere that a Belgian 5 Franc piece is the same size as
a US quarter, but is only worth about 8 cents.

Wasn't that the famous CT turnpike toll scam?

I don't know, it's just something I noticed afer I returned from a trip
to Belgium as an exchange student.

Dave Hinz wrote:
On 6 Apr 2005 08:07:35 -0700, jim rozen wrote:

In article , Karl
Vorwerk says...

Tuesday nights Breaking Vegas was on counterfeiting slot tokens with and EDM
and a big press.

One can fabricate a pretty realistic immitation of a parking lot
token with only a turret lathe. Fits the local hospital 'five
bucks to part here' machine. So I've been told.


I also heard somewhere that a Belgian 5 Franc piece is the same size as
a US quarter, but is only worth about 8 cents. So I've been told.
I also have heard that parking meters have little windows where you can
see the last two coins put in. Not mentioning this for any reason, nope.


The one I heard was New York, in which you put a subway tolken in a box
to pass through the turnstyle. The coin went in, but didn't drop until
the rider went through. So the scumballs figgured out that you could run
up behind the guy in the turnstyle, and *suck* the coin out of the slot.

Yechh !

I was wondering that as well.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On 6 Apr 2005 08:07:35 -0700, jim rozen wrote:
In article ,
Karl
Vorwerk says...

Tuesday nights Breaking Vegas was on counterfeiting slot tokens with and
EDM
and a big press.

One can fabricate a pretty realistic immitation of a parking lot
token with only a turret lathe. Fits the local hospital 'five
bucks to part here' machine. So I've been told.

I also heard somewhere that a Belgian 5 Franc piece is the same size as
a US quarter, but is only worth about 8 cents. So I've been told.
I also have heard that parking meters have little windows where you can
see the last two coins put in. Not mentioning this for any reason, nope.

Isn't a Belgian 5 Franc piece worth nothing as they have been using the Euro
for several years now?
Martin
--
martindot herewhybrowat herentlworlddot herecom

In article , Dave Hinz says...

On 6 Apr 2005 09:29:23 -0700, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Dave Hinz says...

I also heard somewhere that a Belgian 5 Franc piece is the same size as
a US quarter, but is only worth about 8 cents.

Wasn't that the famous CT turnpike toll scam?

I don't know, it's just something I noticed afer I returned from a trip
to Belgium as an exchange student.

At one point the CT turnpike issued tokens worth something like
fifty cents or so. Turned out that some foreign coin was an
exact match and they began turning up in large numbers in the
collection buckets.

Eventually they realized they were only making enough money to
pay for staffing the toll plazas, and maintainting them. So they
finally got smart and tore them out, and stopped collecting the
tolls. They were only supposed to be "until the highway is
paid for" but of course the tolls lingered on for decades after
that.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

With an EDM you would mold the face of the electrode as a mirror image of
the finished part. EDMers have tricks they use to accomplish this. It could
be something like copper plating an existing chip and using that as the
electrode, or using a chip to form an investment cast mold, and then cast
the electrode. They also use an abrading method, where a part is charged
with grit, a special tool applies an orbiting motion and it crush forms the
graphite electrode, there is also ultrasonic machining with an abrasive
slurry that produces good detail.

I once mounted a old copper penny as a cheap test electrode and sank it into
a block of aluminum, didn't get great results because the copper eroded too
quickly, but then again i'm a noob EDMer.

Tony

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
Karl Vorwerk wrote:

... counterfeiting slot tokens with and EDM ...

I thought it was interesting that they showed him cutting the dies with
the EDM, but didn't say anything about he drove the EDM. I.e., how he
measured/scanned the "real" token to get the digital representation.
Maybe the EDM has a built-in scanner, for copying parts. Anybody know?

Bob

On 6 Apr 2005 15:25:34 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Dave Hinz says...

On 6 Apr 2005 09:29:23 -0700, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Dave Hinz says...

I also heard somewhere that a Belgian 5 Franc piece is the same size as
a US quarter, but is only worth about 8 cents.

Wasn't that the famous CT turnpike toll scam?

I don't know, it's just something I noticed afer I returned from a trip
to Belgium as an exchange student.

At one point the CT turnpike issued tokens worth something like
fifty cents or so. Turned out that some foreign coin was an
exact match and they began turning up in large numbers in the
collection buckets.

Eventually they realized they were only making enough money to
pay for staffing the toll plazas, and maintainting them. So they
finally got smart and tore them out, and stopped collecting the
tolls. They were only supposed to be "until the highway is
paid for" but of course the tolls lingered on for decades after
that.

Jim
"Income tax in Canada is only a temporary measure to cover wartime
expenses"
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

In article ,
Gerald Miller wrote:

On 6 Apr 2005 15:25:34 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Dave Hinz says...

On 6 Apr 2005 09:29:23 -0700, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Dave Hinz says...

I also heard somewhere that a Belgian 5 Franc piece is the same size as
a US quarter, but is only worth about 8 cents.

Wasn't that the famous CT turnpike toll scam?

I don't know, it's just something I noticed afer I returned from a trip
to Belgium as an exchange student.

At one point the CT turnpike issued tokens worth something like
fifty cents or so. Turned out that some foreign coin was an
exact match and they began turning up in large numbers in the
collection buckets.

Eventually they realized they were only making enough money to
pay for staffing the toll plazas, and maintainting them. So they
finally got smart and tore them out, and stopped collecting the
tolls. They were only supposed to be "until the highway is
paid for" but of course the tolls lingered on for decades after
that.

Jim
"Income tax in Canada is only a temporary measure to cover wartime
expenses"
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Change "Canada" to "the USA", and the statement is just as "true"...

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

jim rozen wrote in
:

In article , Dave Hinz says...

On 6 Apr 2005 09:29:23 -0700, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Dave Hinz says...

I also heard somewhere that a Belgian 5 Franc piece is the same size as
a US quarter, but is only worth about 8 cents.

Wasn't that the famous CT turnpike toll scam?

I don't know, it's just something I noticed afer I returned from a trip
to Belgium as an exchange student.

At one point the CT turnpike issued tokens worth something like
fifty cents or so. Turned out that some foreign coin was an
exact match and they began turning up in large numbers in the
collection buckets.

Eventually they realized they were only making enough money to
pay for staffing the toll plazas, and maintainting them. So they
finally got smart and tore them out, and stopped collecting the
tolls. They were only supposed to be "until the highway is
paid for" but of course the tolls lingered on for decades after
that.

As I remember it the real driving force behind getting rid of the tolls in
CT. was a horrible crash and fire at a toll plaza (Stratford maybe?). I
don't remember the details clearly but it involved a big rig whose driver
fell asleep and plowed into the cars waiting to pay the toll full tilt.
Something like twelve people were killed including a bunch of little kids
that were in a station wagon.



--

Dan

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:10:05 -0400, "ATP*" wrote:


"jw" wrote in message
roups.com...
I saw it. It was interesting. First thing he learned was that the
form was only part of the problem. He needed to get an exact duplicate
of the material as well.

If you caught the trailer, they noted that they don't know how many of
his "dupes" are still in circulation. The mint that makes the real
tokens couldn't even tell which ones were fake for sure.

The only way they figured out that someone was counterfeiting tokens
was that they were way over inventory on tokens. During the monthly
audits to determine how many had been lost or damaged they instead came
$24,000 over. Big red flag.

JW

Would they take you into a back room and crush body parts if they suspected
you were minting your own tokens?

No. One way trip to the desert.

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

Eventually they realized they were only making enough money to
pay for staffing the toll plazas, and maintainting them. So they
finally got smart and tore them out, and stopped collecting the
tolls. They were only supposed to be "until the highway is
paid for" but of course the tolls lingered on for decades after
that.

Jim
"Income tax in Canada is only a temporary measure to cover wartime
expenses"
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Yep ! Same thing here in Auz

In article , D Murphy says...

Eventually they realized they were only making enough money to
pay for staffing the toll plazas, and maintainting them. So they
finally got smart and tore them out, and stopped collecting the
tolls. They were only supposed to be "until the highway is
paid for" but of course the tolls lingered on for decades after
that.

As I remember it the real driving force behind getting rid of the tolls in
CT. was a horrible crash and fire at a toll plaza (Stratford maybe?). I
don't remember the details clearly but it involved a big rig whose driver
fell asleep and plowed into the cars waiting to pay the toll full tilt.
Something like twelve people were killed including a bunch of little kids
that were in a station wagon.

Stamford? I recall that being the last straw, somebody finally woke
up and said, 'enough.'

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:16:16 GMT, Martin Whybrow wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...

I also heard somewhere that a Belgian 5 Franc piece is the same size as
a US quarter, but is only worth about 8 cents. So I've been told.
I also have heard that parking meters have little windows where you can
see the last two coins put in. Not mentioning this for any reason, nope.

Isn't a Belgian 5 Franc piece worth nothing as they have been using the Euro
for several years now?

Dunno. Was the mid 1980's when I "noticed" it.

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:10:05 -0400, "ATP*" wrote:


"jw" wrote in message
groups.com...
I saw it. It was interesting. First thing he learned was that the
form was only part of the problem. He needed to get an exact duplicate
of the material as well.

If you caught the trailer, they noted that they don't know how many of
his "dupes" are still in circulation. The mint that makes the real
tokens couldn't even tell which ones were fake for sure.

The only way they figured out that someone was counterfeiting tokens
was that they were way over inventory on tokens. During the monthly
audits to determine how many had been lost or damaged they instead came
$24,000 over. Big red flag.

JW

Would they take you into a back room and crush body parts if they
suspected
you were minting your own tokens?

No. One way trip to the desert.

Gunner

Sounds fair enough.

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , D Murphy says...

Eventually they realized they were only making enough money to
pay for staffing the toll plazas, and maintainting them. So they
finally got smart and tore them out, and stopped collecting the
tolls. They were only supposed to be "until the highway is
paid for" but of course the tolls lingered on for decades after
that.

As I remember it the real driving force behind getting rid of the tolls in
CT. was a horrible crash and fire at a toll plaza (Stratford maybe?). I
don't remember the details clearly but it involved a big rig whose driver
fell asleep and plowed into the cars waiting to pay the toll full tilt.
Something like twelve people were killed including a bunch of little kids
that were in a station wagon.

Stamford? I recall that being the last straw, somebody finally woke
up and said, 'enough.'

Jim

The whole toll collection system is a terribly inefficient and wasteful way
to collect revenue. Aside from the cost of operating the system, the
increased fuel usage, air pollution, wasted time and traffic accidents, as
illustrated above, make it a socially expensive system as well. The EZ-Pass
is an improvement but will unfortunately probably keep toll collection
alive.