I'm in the process of getting quotes for a new boiler to replace a 25
year old Burnham. The new boiler will have an indirect hot water tank
(presently a heating coil in the boiler). I've gotten several quotes
and it looks like there's a ~$1500-$2000 premium to be paid for the
Energy Kinetics System 2000 or the Buderus unit.

The Bedurus so far as I can tell is just an extremely well built
conventional boiler with a great control unit.

I am leaning towards the System 2000.

- well engineered
- great control unit that's much less expensive than the $700 Buderus
Log control
- efficiency
- sealed combustion
- outside air for combustion
- US built (all things being equal, I always buy made in USA)

So far, the independent heating/plumbing contractors love this boiler
while the oil companies (who also quoted on this job) hate them... The
oil companies claim that the system 2000 is

- infefficient
- needs to be cleaned/maintained more often (given the construction, I
can't believe this)
- bad repair history
- parts hard to obtain
- steel boilers are unreliable

Now the plumbers tell me confidently that I will see a 30% or more
savings on oil usage. If true, I can't blame the oil guys for talking
me out of the System 2000. But it is a unique boiler and I do have
concerns about the reliability. Particularly with the steel boiler.

So does anyone have a System 2000 in their house? Happy with it? Is
the $2000 premium worth it? Thanks!

Get efficiency ratings from the manufacturers
www.heatinghelp.com then go to "the wall" it is a friendly group not
like althvac haks

"ellhc" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm in the process of getting quotes for a new boiler to replace a 25
year old Burnham. The new boiler will have an indirect hot water tank
(presently a heating coil in the boiler). I've gotten several quotes
and it looks like there's a ~$1500-$2000 premium to be paid for the
Energy Kinetics System 2000 or the Buderus unit.

The Bedurus so far as I can tell is just an extremely well built
conventional boiler with a great control unit.

I am leaning towards the System 2000.

- well engineered
- great control unit that's much less expensive than the $700 Buderus
Log control
- efficiency
- sealed combustion
- outside air for combustion
- US built (all things being equal, I always buy made in USA)

So far, the independent heating/plumbing contractors love this boiler
while the oil companies (who also quoted on this job) hate them... The
oil companies claim that the system 2000 is

- infefficient
- needs to be cleaned/maintained more often (given the construction, I
can't believe this)
- bad repair history
- parts hard to obtain
- steel boilers are unreliable

Now the plumbers tell me confidently that I will see a 30% or more
savings on oil usage. If true, I can't blame the oil guys for talking
me out of the System 2000. But it is a unique boiler and I do have
concerns about the reliability. Particularly with the steel boiler.

So does anyone have a System 2000 in their house? Happy with it? Is
the $2000 premium worth it? Thanks!


Steel boilers can last as long as cast iron as long as air is purged and
kept out of the system.
It's the free oxygen in the air bubbles that aids in corrosion.

I've seen many steel boilers (there are quite a few Columbia steel oil fired
boilers in my area)
that have lasted 30 to 40 years. Like most things, maintenance is a factor
in achieving good longevity.

Aside from the above comment, I have no knowledge of the efficiency of th
System 2000 except to say
that it has to be more efficient than your old boiler. Newer USA
government regulations, as of 1991, I believe,
require a minimum efficiency of 80% (78% with standing pilot) for
residential oil and gas fired heating systems.
Your old Burnham is probably 70% at best. The manufactoorer must list the
seasonal AFUE.
What figures does System 2000 give for their unit?

Doug

System 2000 AFUE is ~86% but they make the claim that this is a poor
measure of real efficiency. Check them out...

http://www.energykinetics.com/

I'm not a thermal or HVAC engineer but technically what they claim
makes sense. I'm just about sold but need to know how reliable they
are before paying the significant premium.

Oh and thanks to m Ransley for pointing me to www.heatinghelp.com.
I've already found a wealth of information. My conclusion thus far is
that the Energy Kinetics System 2000 does operate as advertized
provided that it is installed and adjusted and maintained properly and
there's no problems with the rwliability. However, they are more
difficult to install, adjust and maintain...

I have had one in my house for about 12 years. No major problems.

Some things to keep in mind though.

The internal boards will fry if lightning strikes near your house have
good surge suppression on you house.

Have the installer give you the emergency board so the system will
operate as a normal boiler if the board goes bad.

Have the system cleaned regularly

Are you going to use a chimney or use the power vent kit? If you use
the power vent kit make certain that the power vent is in a location
where it does not trap heat. Had to replace the blower once due to
this.

The zone valves sometimes stick in the open position, ask your
installer to add the proper lubricant additive to the boiler water.

Funny thing is that our oil supplier was the one who recommended the
system, now they don't sell this as it does save oil use. We went from
2000 gal to about 1800 gal of oil used per year for our house. This
includes domestic hot water as well.

wrote:
I have had one in my house for about 12 years. No major problems.

Some things to keep in mind though.

The internal boards will fry if lightning strikes near your house
have
good surge suppression on you house.

Have the installer give you the emergency board so the system will
operate as a normal boiler if the board goes bad.

Hmmm... maybe I'll wire in an isolation transformer.

Have the system cleaned regularly

once a year wheather it needs it or not...

Are you going to use a chimney or use the power vent kit? If you use
the power vent kit make certain that the power vent is in a location
where it does not trap heat. Had to replace the blower once due to
this.

Chimney.. no problems here...

The zone valves sometimes stick in the open position, ask your
installer to add the proper lubricant additive to the boiler water.

They don't use standard Honeywell zone valves?

Funny thing is that our oil supplier was the one who recommended the
system, now they don't sell this as it does save oil use. We went
from
2000 gal to about 1800 gal of oil used per year for our house. This
includes domestic hot water as well.

My oil supplier is absolutely adament that this boiler is tough to
adjust and not reliable. But your savings of 10% is far less than the
30% claim that Energy Kinetics is making. Did your old boiler make hot
water as well?

They don't use standard Honeywell zone valves?
They are not the thermal zone valves but moterized and somtimes the
return spring will stick.

Can't say about the savings as our house is about 100 years old and the
old boiler was just about as old. previous owners gave us the oil
bills from the year they moved out. Before replacement we had an
electric water heater after new system the EK provied hot water.

As for adjustment and relilablity never had a problem, sounds like he
doesn't want to send his crew to the traiining EK provides.

For what it's worth...

I can't comment specifically on the boilers you're looking at. But that claim of "30% savings" seems awfully suspicious.

An old boiler (and by "old" I mean 40+ years) might be 70% efficient. Even with a boiler of this age, to obtain a 30%
reduction in oil usage the new one would have to be 100% efficient which is impossible except in the case of a heat pump.

I suspect more realistic numbers might be 75% for the old one and 95% for the new one, giving a 20% savings. That's *if* the
new one is 95% efficient - that's an awfully high number.

Eric Law

If you look at Energy Kinetics comparisons of gas to oil operating cost
savings their numbers are even more unbeliveable. For one gas furnaces
go to 94.5 % vs 87% for energy kinetics . Im sure it is a good unit ,
but run your own numbers first.

replying to ellhc, Satisfied Customer wrote:
leejackp wrote:

I'm in the process of getting quotes for a new boiler to replace a 25
year old Burnham. The new boiler will have an indirect hot water tank
(presently a heating coil in the boiler). I've gotten several quotes
and it looks like there's a ~$1500-$2000 premium to be paid for the
Energy Kinetics System 2000 or the Buderus unit.
The Bedurus so far as I can tell is just an extremely well built
conventional boiler with a great control unit.
I am leaning towards the System 2000.
- well engineered
- great control unit that's much less expensive than the $700 Buderus
Log control
- efficiency
- sealed combustion
- outside air for combustion
- US built (all things being equal, I always buy made in USA)
So far, the independent heating/plumbing contractors love this boiler
while the oil companies (who also quoted on this job) hate them... The
oil companies claim that the system 2000 is
- infefficient
- needs to be cleaned/maintained more often (given the construction, I
can't believe this)
- bad repair history
- parts hard to obtain
- steel boilers are unreliable
Now the plumbers tell me confidently that I will see a 30% or more
savings on oil usage. If true, I can't blame the oil guys for talking
me out of the System 2000. But it is a unique boiler and I do have
concerns about the reliability. Particularly with the steel boiler.
So does anyone have a System 2000 in their house? Happy with it? Is
the $2000 premium worth it? Thanks!



We built a house in 2001 and installed a System 2000. Couldn't be more
satisfied with it. During the first couple years a fuel jet had to be
replaced and that is the only repair we've had to do. Runs quiet, burns
more efficiently and you get plenty of hot water. The only down side is
that we put in a power vent instead of venting into a chimney. The fan
needs to be cleaned at least once a year - it's starts getting very loud
and vibrates when dirty. If you can vent into a chimney I bet you'd never
know it is running.

--

On 8/18/2015 2:44 PM, Satisfied Customer wrote:
replying to ellhc, Satisfied Customer wrote:
leejackp wrote:

I'm in the process of getting quotes for a new boiler to replace a 25
year old Burnham. The new boiler will have an indirect hot water tank
(presently a heating coil in the boiler). I've gotten several quotes
and it looks like there's a ~$1500-$2000 premium to be paid for the
Energy Kinetics System 2000 or the Buderus unit.
The Bedurus so far as I can tell is just an extremely well built
conventional boiler with a great control unit.
I am leaning towards the System 2000.
- well engineered
- great control unit that's much less expensive than the $700 Buderus
Log control
- efficiency
- sealed combustion
- outside air for combustion
- US built (all things being equal, I always buy made in USA)
So far, the independent heating/plumbing contractors love this boiler
while the oil companies (who also quoted on this job) hate them... The
oil companies claim that the system 2000 is
- infefficient
- needs to be cleaned/maintained more often (given the construction, I
can't believe this)
- bad repair history
- parts hard to obtain
- steel boilers are unreliable
Now the plumbers tell me confidently that I will see a 30% or more
savings on oil usage. If true, I can't blame the oil guys for talking
me out of the System 2000. But it is a unique boiler and I do have
concerns about the reliability. Particularly with the steel boiler.
So does anyone have a System 2000 in their house? Happy with it? Is
the $2000 premium worth it? Thanks!



We built a house in 2001 and installed a System 2000. Couldn't be more
satisfied with it. During the first couple years a fuel jet had to be
replaced and that is the only repair we've had to do. Runs quiet, burns
more efficiently and you get plenty of hot water. The only down side is
that we put in a power vent instead of venting into a chimney. The fan
needs to be cleaned at least once a year - it's starts getting very loud
and vibrates when dirty. If you can vent into a chimney I bet you'd never
know it is running.

I've posted here before about mine. My oil savings run 38% to 40% over
my old 1978 model boiler it replaced. I've been tracking by degree days
for comparisons year t years. Going on 4 years now. Not a problem.