Ignoramus21810 wrote:

Anthony Matonak wrote:

Ignoramus21810 wrote:
...
Well, to put the engine under full load, I would turn on a 4.5 kW
water heater, dropped into a bucket of water. I did that to test my
generator and I can make it a little more robust for everyday use.

So, yes it would be easy to use, and yes, I expect my house to be a
light load for most of the time.
...
Excuse me if this sounds like a wild, implausible idea, but
perhaps it would work better if you had a smaller generator
to handle the majority of the light loads most of the time?

You would only need to fire up the big generator for the
occasional big loads. I know it would be additional expense
but it would also give you a better chance of still having
power even if one of the generators went down.

First, it is expensive, second, I do not like the idea of maintaining
two generators, and third, loads are intermittent. Think about my
refrigerators, range, etc, I cannot run out and switch from one genset
to another every time someone wants to boil a teapot of water.

This points to a need for a small demand management system for off-grid homes
with limited instantaneous power capacity from generators and inverters. We
might turn the fridge off while the range runs, turn the range off for a few
seconds while the well pump runs, and so on, with Insteon/X10 hardware and
a wireless controller to implement a priority scheme. If someone turns on
a teapot with the switch on the handle, the AC receptacle senses that and
signals the controller, which delays applying full teapot power until the
controller turns off something else in the house. Small on-grid businesses
with demand meters could also use boxes like this.

On a larger scale, a few years ago I met a negawatt trader who made money
in New York State on-line power auctions by meeting predicted utility grid
demands on peak summer days by turning off central AC systems in large
apartment buildings for an hour or so in the afternoon. He got paid the same
as an energy provider, and only bid when the instantaneous auction price
got up to about $1/kWh, but he got more valuable credits, since reducing
demand creates no pollution. The smallest practical load for him was
1 megawatt, and he seemed excited about the chance to control 1 kW loads
automatically.

Nick

Ignoramus30876 wrote:
On 24 Feb 2005 06:17:36 -0500, wrote:

Ignoramus21810 wrote:


Anthony Matonak wrote:

Ignoramus21810 wrote:
...

Well, to put the engine under full load, I would turn on a 4.5 kW
water heater, dropped into a bucket of water. I did that to test my
generator and I can make it a little more robust for everyday use.

So, yes it would be easy to use, and yes, I expect my house to be a
light load for most of the time.

...
Excuse me if this sounds like a wild, implausible idea, but
perhaps it would work better if you had a smaller generator
to handle the majority of the light loads most of the time?

You would only need to fire up the big generator for the
occasional big loads. I know it would be additional expense
but it would also give you a better chance of still having
power even if one of the generators went down.

First, it is expensive, second, I do not like the idea of maintaining
two generators, and third, loads are intermittent. Think about my
refrigerators, range, etc, I cannot run out and switch from one genset
to another every time someone wants to boil a teapot of water.

This points to a need for a small demand management system for off-grid homes
with limited instantaneous power capacity from generators and
inverters.


I think that with my 7-7.5 kW output from my generator, I should be
fine for most situations, sans use of central AC. There is no need,
for me, to control power use except for the most common sense things
(run hot tub for short time at night, do not use too many range
burners at the same time, use electric heater sparsely).

Rather tham managing too high power requirements, which I do not
expect to be a big issue, the bigger issue is managing too low power
and its impact on a diesel generator. Here it is:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/


We might turn the fridge off while the range runs, turn the range
off for a few seconds while the well pump runs, and so on, with
Insteon/X10 hardware and a wireless controller to implement a
priority scheme. If someone turns on a teapot with the switch on the
handle, the AC receptacle senses that and signals the controller,
which delays applying full teapot power until the controller turns
off something else in the house. Small on-grid businesses with
demand meters could also use boxes like this.


I am a little confused by your wording. (English is not my native
language). Are you describing some existing setup, or are you
referring to a potential application?


On a larger scale, a few years ago I met a negawatt trader who made
money in New York State on-line power auctions by meeting predicted
utility grid demands on peak summer days by turning off central AC
systems in large apartment buildings for an hour or so in the
afternoon. He got paid the same as an energy provider, and only bid
when the instantaneous auction price got up to about $1/kWh, but he
got more valuable credits, since reducing demand creates no
pollution. The smallest practical load for him was 1 megawatt, and
he seemed excited about the chance to control 1 kW loads
automatically.


That's interesting.

What I have in mind for myself is some sort of a control box, that
senses low power usage of the generator (should not be difficult), and
if usage is indeed low, it would turn up some resistive loads like
space heaters or water heaters.

i

Have you considered using a battery bank and inverter set to supply the
lighter loads? Controllers are available that will start the generator
only when the inverter capacity is exceeded or the batteries supplying
it are running low. I worked as a remote power installer for a couple
of years and batteries were almost always part of the engineering teams
load shifting and buffering strategy.
--
Tom H

More toruble than it is worth. Just let it run!

Jameyu


"Ignoramus30876" wrote in message
...
On 24 Feb 2005 06:17:36 -0500,
wrote:
Ignoramus21810 wrote:

Anthony Matonak wrote:

Ignoramus21810 wrote:
...
Well, to put the engine under full load, I would turn on a 4.5 kW
water heater, dropped into a bucket of water. I did that to test my
generator and I can make it a little more robust for everyday use.

So, yes it would be easy to use, and yes, I expect my house to be a
light load for most of the time.
...
Excuse me if this sounds like a wild, implausible idea, but
perhaps it would work better if you had a smaller generator
to handle the majority of the light loads most of the time?

You would only need to fire up the big generator for the
occasional big loads. I know it would be additional expense
but it would also give you a better chance of still having
power even if one of the generators went down.

First, it is expensive, second, I do not like the idea of maintaining
two generators, and third, loads are intermittent. Think about my
refrigerators, range, etc, I cannot run out and switch from one genset
to another every time someone wants to boil a teapot of water.

This points to a need for a small demand management system for off-grid
homes
with limited instantaneous power capacity from generators and
inverters.

I think that with my 7-7.5 kW output from my generator, I should be
fine for most situations, sans use of central AC. There is no need,
for me, to control power use except for the most common sense things
(run hot tub for short time at night, do not use too many range
burners at the same time, use electric heater sparsely).

Rather tham managing too high power requirements, which I do not
expect to be a big issue, the bigger issue is managing too low power
and its impact on a diesel generator. Here it is:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

We might turn the fridge off while the range runs, turn the range
off for a few seconds while the well pump runs, and so on, with
Insteon/X10 hardware and a wireless controller to implement a
priority scheme. If someone turns on a teapot with the switch on the
handle, the AC receptacle senses that and signals the controller,
which delays applying full teapot power until the controller turns
off something else in the house. Small on-grid businesses with
demand meters could also use boxes like this.

I am a little confused by your wording. (English is not my native
language). Are you describing some existing setup, or are you
referring to a potential application?

On a larger scale, a few years ago I met a negawatt trader who made
money in New York State on-line power auctions by meeting predicted
utility grid demands on peak summer days by turning off central AC
systems in large apartment buildings for an hour or so in the
afternoon. He got paid the same as an energy provider, and only bid
when the instantaneous auction price got up to about $1/kWh, but he
got more valuable credits, since reducing demand creates no
pollution. The smallest practical load for him was 1 megawatt, and
he seemed excited about the chance to control 1 kW loads
automatically.

That's interesting.

What I have in mind for myself is some sort of a control box, that
senses low power usage of the generator (should not be difficult), and
if usage is indeed low, it would turn up some resistive loads like
space heaters or water heaters.

i