Question here for the group. My Janitrol (Heat Pump)system is 13 years
old. The compressor shorted out to ground and needs to be replaced. I am
getting two different stories on how I should precede.

One side saids that the whole unit has to be replace because the new
compressor will not match up with the Heat Exchanger.

The other side saids that Goodman manufactures a comparable Compressor
that will match up with the older Heat Exchager.

The model numbers are Outdoor Compressor CPE18-1AB (1 1/2 ton) the heat
exchanger is model No. A24-10.

Any help would be great.

Jm

"J Mickler" wrote in message
...
Question here for the group. My Janitrol (Heat Pump)system is 13 years
old. The compressor shorted out to ground and needs to be replaced. I am
getting two different stories on how I should precede.

One side saids that the whole unit has to be replace because the new
compressor will not match up with the Heat Exchanger.

The other side saids that Goodman manufactures a comparable Compressor
that will match up with the older Heat Exchager.

The model numbers are Outdoor Compressor CPE18-1AB (1 1/2 ton) the heat
exchanger is model No. A24-10.

Any help would be great.

Jm

Janitrol = Junk

Any money you put into repairs on this unit will be wasted. Check the
consumer reports.

On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:26:03 -0500, "Kathy"
wrote:


"J Mickler" wrote in message
...
Question here for the group. My Janitrol (Heat Pump)system is 13 years
old. The compressor shorted out to ground and needs to be replaced. I am
getting two different stories on how I should precede.

One side saids that the whole unit has to be replace because the new
compressor will not match up with the Heat Exchanger.

The other side saids that Goodman manufactures a comparable Compressor
that will match up with the older Heat Exchager.

The model numbers are Outdoor Compressor CPE18-1AB (1 1/2 ton) the heat
exchanger is model No. A24-10.

Any help would be great.

Jm

Janitrol = Junk

Any money you put into repairs on this unit will be wasted. Check the
consumer reports.


First, where in consumer reports? Couldn't find any reports on this
manufacture.

Second, 13 years is above average for a heat pump, so I'm guessin it
worked a-ok.

Just saying......


later,

tom @ www.CarFleaMarket.com

"J Mickler" wrote in message
...
My Janitrol (Heat Pump)system is 13 years old. The compressor shorted out
to ground and needs to be replaced.
I am getting two different stories on how I should precede.

One side says that the whole unit has to be replace because the new
compressor will not match up with the Heat Exchanger. [?]

The other side says that Goodman manufactures a comparable Compressor
that will match up with the older Heat Exchanger. [?]

The model numbers are Outdoor Compressor CPE18-1AB (1 1/2 ton) the heat
exchanger is model No. A24-10. Any help would be great. Jm
=========
That is a Copeland compressor. It should not be difficult to get the same
BTUH match as the original!

How did the tech check for the short to ground? Did he remove all of the
leads from the compressor and them do an ohm check to a copper line from the
compressor's terminals? Did you verify that it was done correctly?

I have seen them condemn the compressor when it was the "run capacitor" that
was bad. Did both parties do a proper ohms test and then condemn the
compressor?

I lot of things could have caused the compressor failure that have nothing
to do with the quality of the Goodman equipment! I saw the most expensive
equipment fail early. Goodman equipment installed properly and maintained
properly in my 25 years experience in Oklahoma, lasted as good or better
that the most expensive equipment that I did service work on! It is usually
human errors and failures that leads to the failure of equipment. Yes, some
components can be faulty in any make of equipment. I witnessed some of that
in most brands of equipment. ( udarrell )
http://www.udarrell.com/my_pages2.ht...ITIONING_PAGES
--
Shooting Skills - Hitting Running Coyotes - Ballistic Charts
http://www.udarrell.com/hunting_shoo...ics_frames.htm

"J Mickler" wrote in message
...
Question here for the group. My Janitrol (Heat Pump)system is 13 years
old. The compressor shorted out to ground and needs to be replaced. I am
getting two different stories on how I should precede.

One side saids that the whole unit has to be replace because the new
compressor will not match up with the Heat Exchanger.

The other side saids that Goodman manufactures a comparable Compressor
that will match up with the older Heat Exchager.

The model numbers are Outdoor Compressor CPE18-1AB (1 1/2 ton) the heat
exchanger is model No. A24-10.

Any help would be great.

Jm


It depends on if the compressor fried internally what you should do. If the
freon is burned you could be facing a complete replacement. At least I would
cause you would never be sure if you got out all of the commintantants
before you started it up.

At 13 years old it would be a good time to update both the air handler and
compressor into the highest seer that you can afford.
http://198.147.238.24/ac_calc/default.asp
play what if at this site, maybe it can help you decide.

After reading the replies up to Darrels....this post makes sense
now....inserts below.

"J Mickler" wrote in message
...
Question here for the group. My Janitrol (Heat Pump)system is 13 years
old. The compressor shorted out to ground and needs to be replaced. I am
getting two different stories on how I should precede.


Average life is 12 to 15 years on a unit. Its time to replace it all anyway.

Now, before everyone else jumps in and starts screaming cap, cap cap....
A short to ground in a compressor winding is NOT even close to a bad cap.
How did the tech test the unit to insure that the unit was indeed shorted to
ground and was the fuse/breaker tripping or blowing what told you as the
homeowner you had a problem?


One side saids that the whole unit has to be replace because the new
compressor will not match up with the Heat Exchanger.

The compressor, or the CONDENSOR??
That Copeland compressor is still out there, its still being made. The only
change to it really is the location of the suction and discharge lines.
A swage tool and a 90 degree fitting changes that so its not an issue.

If they are talking about the condensor itself, then there is more to
replace than just the air handler indoors as well, as you prob need a new
lineset as well, unless hes willing to warranty it and clean it out
correctly, AND the size of the lines are the same as the new equipment.


The other side saids that Goodman manufactures a comparable Compressor
that will match up with the older Heat Exchager.

Think you are getting your terms mixed up here.

Compressor or Condensor?

Heat pumps do not have, technically, a heat exchanger. They have an air
handler, with a coil in it.


The model numbers are Outdoor Compressor CPE18-1AB (1 1/2 ton) the heat
exchanger is model No. A24-10.

Yup...you are mixing terms up here.
The numbers you post...the CPE18 is an older 1.5 ton (18,000 BTU) 10 SEER
condensing unit heat pump. NOT a compressor.

The A24 is an old 2 ton, 10 SEER , 24,000 BTU rated air handler. NOT a heat
exchanger.

The outdoor unit, mated to that indoor unit, only gave you a total cooling
total of 17,400 BTU, with a sensible cooling BTU total of only 13,000.
The COP, at 47F was 3,, and you only had a HSPF rating of 7.00.
Total SEER with that mis match....10.5

In other words, shop for a newer unit MATCHED properly. Higher SEER units
will use a larger air handler..thats normal, but they will require in most
cases a metering device change to get them to work properly.

IF the compressor, (the actual compressor, inside the condensor) is shorted
to ground, you can normally replace the entire outer unit for less than the
compressor.
Given that, it makes sense to install a properly mated air handler with the
new unit. You might ask whoever is installing the new system to get you
total cooling numbers, and sensible cooling numbers, along with the HSPF
ratings for the unit in question.
Also, make sure you see the numbers not written down by the tech, but on the
spec sheet for the make of the unit you are looking at.

With the 13SEER rule going into effect in less than a year, you might want
to go ahead and shop for a 13 or 14 SEER unit. Go with the unit that has the
highest HSPF rating you can find.
Also, insure that the installers are installing a set of heat strips that
are large enough to supply you with enough heat during the defrost cycles
and if the compressor fails so that you can switch to emer setting on your
thermostat and still stay warm.


Insure that whoever is installing the unit, is licenced, and insured. Make
damn sure that if permits and inspections are required in your area, that
they are pulling the permits and getting the inspectors out.
This protects you greatly.


Get more than two quotes, and might I also suggest that since
Goodman/Janitrol just changed hands again, that the quality of the units
they make today is still crap, and we dont have a clue what the new ones are
gonna be like, other than as the owner of a HVAC company, the brand spanking
new ones, (I dont install the crap) still make us tons of money on the
repair side.

Also, if that Goodman/Janijunk lifetime warranty on the compressor is making
you think that way, consider this..all makes offer that, and have.
Most before Goodman jumped on board with it. In most cases as well, its
worthless to anyone but you, and then, unless you read all the fine print ,
it might be worthless to you as well.



Any help would be great.

Jm

"Kathy" wrote in message
...

"J Mickler" wrote in message
...
Question here for the group. My Janitrol (Heat Pump)system is 13 years
old. The compressor shorted out to ground and needs to be replaced. I am
getting two different stories on how I should precede.

One side saids that the whole unit has to be replace because the new
compressor will not match up with the Heat Exchanger.

The other side saids that Goodman manufactures a comparable Compressor
that will match up with the older Heat Exchager.

The model numbers are Outdoor Compressor CPE18-1AB (1 1/2 ton) the heat
exchanger is model No. A24-10.

Any help would be great.

Jm

Janitrol = Junk

Any money you put into repairs on this unit will be wasted. Check the
consumer reports.


This is Turtle.

Kathy , You have been listening to too much of the advertisement of the brand
names. Brand now a days has very little meaning if installed incorrectly. I
would find me a Good installer and then have him put me a Mickey Mouse Brand in
my house if he was a good installer. The Brands with out a good installer is all
the same equipment.

TURTLE

"Steve@carolinabreezehvac" wrote in
message ...
After reading the replies up to Darrels....this post makes sense
now....inserts below.

"J Mickler" wrote in message
...
Question here for the group. My Janitrol (Heat Pump)system is 13 years
old. The compressor shorted out to ground and needs to be replaced. I am
getting two different stories on how I should precede.


Average life is 12 to 15 years on a unit. Its time to replace it all anyway.

Now, before everyone else jumps in and starts screaming cap, cap cap....
A short to ground in a compressor winding is NOT even close to a bad cap.
How did the tech test the unit to insure that the unit was indeed shorted to
ground and was the fuse/breaker tripping or blowing what told you as the
homeowner you had a problem?


One side saids that the whole unit has to be replace because the new
compressor will not match up with the Heat Exchanger.

The compressor, or the CONDENSOR??
That Copeland compressor is still out there, its still being made. The only
change to it really is the location of the suction and discharge lines.
A swage tool and a 90 degree fitting changes that so its not an issue.

If they are talking about the condensor itself, then there is more to
replace than just the air handler indoors as well, as you prob need a new
lineset as well, unless hes willing to warranty it and clean it out
correctly, AND the size of the lines are the same as the new equipment.


The other side saids that Goodman manufactures a comparable Compressor
that will match up with the older Heat Exchager.

Think you are getting your terms mixed up here.

Compressor or Condensor?

Heat pumps do not have, technically, a heat exchanger. They have an air
handler, with a coil in it.


The model numbers are Outdoor Compressor CPE18-1AB (1 1/2 ton) the heat
exchanger is model No. A24-10.

Yup...you are mixing terms up here.
The numbers you post...the CPE18 is an older 1.5 ton (18,000 BTU) 10 SEER
condensing unit heat pump. NOT a compressor.

The A24 is an old 2 ton, 10 SEER , 24,000 BTU rated air handler. NOT a heat
exchanger.

The outdoor unit, mated to that indoor unit, only gave you a total cooling
total of 17,400 BTU, with a sensible cooling BTU total of only 13,000.
The COP, at 47F was 3,, and you only had a HSPF rating of 7.00.
Total SEER with that mis match....10.5

In other words, shop for a newer unit MATCHED properly. Higher SEER units
will use a larger air handler..thats normal, but they will require in most
cases a metering device change to get them to work properly.

IF the compressor, (the actual compressor, inside the condensor) is shorted
to ground, you can normally replace the entire outer unit for less than the
compressor.
Given that, it makes sense to install a properly mated air handler with the
new unit. You might ask whoever is installing the new system to get you
total cooling numbers, and sensible cooling numbers, along with the HSPF
ratings for the unit in question.
Also, make sure you see the numbers not written down by the tech, but on the
spec sheet for the make of the unit you are looking at.

With the 13SEER rule going into effect in less than a year, you might want
to go ahead and shop for a 13 or 14 SEER unit. Go with the unit that has the
highest HSPF rating you can find.
Also, insure that the installers are installing a set of heat strips that
are large enough to supply you with enough heat during the defrost cycles
and if the compressor fails so that you can switch to emer setting on your
thermostat and still stay warm.


Insure that whoever is installing the unit, is licenced, and insured. Make
damn sure that if permits and inspections are required in your area, that
they are pulling the permits and getting the inspectors out.
This protects you greatly.


Get more than two quotes, and might I also suggest that since
Goodman/Janitrol just changed hands again, that the quality of the units
they make today is still crap, and we dont have a clue what the new ones are
gonna be like, other than as the owner of a HVAC company, the brand spanking
new ones, (I dont install the crap) still make us tons of money on the
repair side.

Also, if that Goodman/Janijunk lifetime warranty on the compressor is making
you think that way, consider this..all makes offer that, and have.
Most before Goodman jumped on board with it. In most cases as well, its
worthless to anyone but you, and then, unless you read all the fine print ,
it might be worthless to you as well.



This is Turtle.

I did read the fine Print on that lifetime warranty of the compressor. Here is
what i got out of it.

1) You must have it serviced atleast one time a year by a licenced service
company.
2) Must Mail in the Warranty Card or register by E-Mail to Goodman to activate
the life time warranty.
3) The Warrantier of the compressor must be a Goodman or Amana Dealer.
4) Moving the units from present address violates warranty and goes back to 10
year warranty.
5) Act of God / Lighting / Power surges Violate Warranty but reverts back to
10 year warranty.
6) The Replacement of Non-OEM Goodman or Amana Parts Violates the warranty.
7) The inside unit not Matching the outside unit in the Goodman Matching
system Violates the Warranty.
8) Other brand of furnaces, Evaperator Coils, or Air Handlers violates the
Warranty.
9) If there is 3 compressors warrantied in any 10 year time frame. Revert back
to original 10 year warranty time span.

10) If any of the above items are violated the warranty is dead or reverts
back to 10 year warranty time limit.

It would be hard to keep the regulations with this lifetime warranty.

Now I talk to one of Amana's Rep.s and there is some question now [ the buy out
deal ] as to them Keeping the lifetime warranty offer Offered anymore but still
is offered for now. He also said that the offer of lifetime warranty was on most
all units with a Copland New Millium Compressor on them and they have almost a
Zero Failure rate as of now. He said well if your getting Zero failure rate.
Collect on it by putting a lifetime warranty to cover something that does not
break.

I sell a few Amana or Goodman condensers but all of them will have a Copland New
Millium Compressor on it or I don't sell it. I also sell Rheem / Carrier / Arco
Air / Hiel / A/S in the commercial line but if they don't have a Copland scroll
compressor in them. I don't sell them. There is some of these that don't have a
scroll in them and they get cut from the list.

TURTLE

"Kathy" wrote in message
...

"J Mickler" wrote in message
...
Question here for the group. My Janitrol (Heat Pump)system is 13 years
old. The compressor shorted out to ground and needs to be replaced. I am
getting two different stories on how I should precede.

One side saids that the whole unit has to be replace because the new
compressor will not match up with the Heat Exchanger.

The other side saids that Goodman manufactures a comparable Compressor
that will match up with the older Heat Exchager.

The model numbers are Outdoor Compressor CPE18-1AB (1 1/2 ton) the heat
exchanger is model No. A24-10.

Any help would be great.

Jm

Janitrol = Junk

Any money you put into repairs on this unit will be wasted. Check the
consumer reports.


This is Turtle.

Kathy , You have been listening to too much of the advertisement of the brand

names. Brand now a days has very little meaning if installed incorrectly. I
would find me a Good installer and then have him put me a Mickey Mouse Brand
in
my house if he was a good installer. The Brands with out a good installer is
all
the same equipment.

TURTLE

I'll second that. There really isn't much difference in cost between a
compressor replacement and a new condensing unit and the new unit would have a
warranty. I wouldn't hesitate to replace your Goodman outdoor unit with a
comparable model. There would be some benefit to replacing the air handler
along with the outdoor unit, but only you can decide if the cost associated
with that is worth it to you. I would advise it and give you the price, but at
the same time, I'd feel comfortable going either way. I have two Goodman units
in my own home that have been running fine for 13 years and the equipment they
put out today is better quality than it was back then.

Bobby