I live in a split level house with a finished basement that I moved
into back in July. This is our first winter and I noticed it was cold
in the basement and after further investigating discovered that there
was no insulation behind the wood panel walls. So I am in the process
of removing the wood panels, which is fairly easy, and putting
insulation inside the walls between the studs and on the sill plates
between the ceiling joists. I have a storage closet that has no
finished wall inside, it is just the foundation slab. How should I
insulate this? I was thinking of using those styrofoam insulation
boards and glueing them to the foundation. Also my furnace room has
exposed foundation walls. I know I'm not suppose to put anything
flammable near the furnace so is it better off just leaving the
foundation exposed?

"Mikepier" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a storage closet that has no
finished wall inside, it is just the foundation slab. How should I
insulate this? I was thinking of using those styrofoam insulation
boards and glueing them to the foundation. Also my furnace room has
exposed foundation walls. I know I'm not suppose to put anything
flammable near the furnace so is it better off just leaving the
foundation exposed?

The foam will work. Yes, it will save you some $ in the long run.

As for the furnace room, you must have some clearance from the heater.
Check the manual for that. It cold be anywhere from 12" to 36". You can
use foam insulation, but it must be covered with sheetrock to meet code.

Is basement below grade, if it is are you sure no moisture gets in
through the walls , if it does mold will grow. You can put in vents if
you have forced air and are sure it can take the extra load. Moisture
is a first concern

Mikepier wrote:
I live in a split level house with a finished basement that I moved
into back in July. This is our first winter and I noticed it was cold
in the basement and after further investigating discovered that there
was no insulation behind the wood panel walls. So I am in the process
of removing the wood panels, which is fairly easy, and putting
insulation inside the walls between the studs and on the sill plates
between the ceiling joists.

Pay special attention to the top half as most of the heat loss will be
there, the bottom half is far enough underground that you will not loose
much heat there, the walls will be warmer.

I have a storage closet that has no
finished wall inside, it is just the foundation slab. How should I
insulate this? I was thinking of using those styrofoam insulation
boards and glueing them to the foundation.

Make sure the insulation is certified for exposed use. It is a safety
issue. Most Styrofoam is highly poisonous when it burns. It must be
covered with drywall for your protection and likely local fire code.

Also my furnace room has
exposed foundation walls. I know I'm not suppose to put anything
flammable near the furnace so is it better off just leaving the
foundation exposed?

As noted there will be specifications for the furnace. Be sure to
follow them and be extra careful with any foam insulation.

You may need to have someone take a look at the heat distribution (duct)
system and your heating capacity before you have this all corrected. My
guess is the heating equipment was not designed to heat the basement to
living standards, or if it was,. it was poorly done. Only an on site
inspection and some measurements can tell for sure.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

I believe those foam panels are very flamable and code requires that they
be covered and not left exposed.


"Mikepier" wrote in message
oups.com...
I live in a split level house with a finished basement that I moved
into back in July. This is our first winter and I noticed it was cold
in the basement and after further investigating discovered that there
was no insulation behind the wood panel walls. So I am in the process
of removing the wood panels, which is fairly easy, and putting
insulation inside the walls between the studs and on the sill plates
between the ceiling joists. I have a storage closet that has no
finished wall inside, it is just the foundation slab. How should I
insulate this? I was thinking of using those styrofoam insulation
boards and glueing them to the foundation. Also my furnace room has
exposed foundation walls. I know I'm not suppose to put anything
flammable near the furnace so is it better off just leaving the
foundation exposed?

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message

Make sure the insulation is certified for exposed use. It is a safety
issue. Most Styrofoam is highly poisonous when it burns. It must be
covered with drywall for your protection and likely local fire code.


No, it is NOT poisonous. It gives off a lot of soot, along with carbon
dioxide and water. While it is not good to inhale soot, there are not toxic
fumes with either Styrofoam (Dow Chemicals trademark for extruded
polystyrene board) or expanded polystyrene board. Other isocyanate foams
may or may not; I'm not familiar with them.

The foam materials approved for insulation are modified so they do not burn
on their own, only when there is another source of ignition. To test this,
break off a piece take it outside, then burn it by holding a lighter or
torch to it. remove the flame and it will go out in a few seconds. (this
is not true of most packaging grade foams)

It must be covered with drywall to meet code thought.

I know you have good intentions, but be sure to check the facts of
insulating foams. There are huge differences in how they react and I'm sure
you want to be accurate.

"Mikepier" wrote in message
oups.com...
I live in a split level house with a finished basement that I moved
into back in July. This is our first winter and I noticed it was cold
in the basement and after further investigating discovered that there
was no insulation behind the wood panel walls. So I am in the process
of removing the wood panels, which is fairly easy, and putting
insulation inside the walls between the studs and on the sill plates
between the ceiling joists.

Don't forget to caulk the gap between the sill plate and foundation wall. It
is a major source of infiltration

"Art" wrote in message
nk.net...
I believe those foam panels are very flamable and code requires that they
be covered and not left exposed.



You believe wrong. Yes, they must be covered for code, but they will not
burn unless thee is another source of ignition. Much less likely to burn
that paper, cardboard, vinyl paneling, etc. Please see my other post on
this.

Ed I just took outside a piece of blue foamboard, its 15f outside and
with my liitle Bic lighter it burnt and stank like polyurethane. Id say
it is more dangerous then you realise

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Ed I just took outside a piece of blue foamboard, its 15f outside and
with my liitle Bic lighter it burnt and stank like polyurethane. Id say
it is more dangerous then you realise


Stink does not equate to toxicity. The flame went out too didn't it?

While you would not want to breath in soot, it is not the same as breathing
in poisonous gasses. Too much of your own farts could smother you, but in
moderation, they only stink.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news

"Art" wrote in message
nk.net...
I believe those foam panels are very flamable and code requires that they
be covered and not left exposed.



You believe wrong. Yes, they must be covered for code, but they will not
burn unless thee is another source of ignition

Obviously.... I was not suggesting spontaneous combustion.

When you say "covered with drywall" does that include wood panelling, or
does it specifically need drywall? I have a similar project like this on
the back burner.

No Ed it burnt till it was gone. It is a petroleum byproduct , I dought
you can give proof breathing it`s fumes while burning is safe, nor would
you do it.

Buck Turgidson wrote:
When you say "covered with drywall" does that include wood panelling,
or does it specifically need drywall? I have a similar project like
this on the back burner.

Must be drywall. Drywall is very fire retardant, wood paneling is not.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

It has to have a fire rated covering, wood paneling does not do this.

!/2 inch plasterboard or similar material meets the requirement for
residential usage

Rich

"Buck Turgidson" wrote in message
...
When you say "covered with drywall" does that include wood panelling, or
does it specifically need drywall? I have a similar project like this on
the back burner.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Maybe you better update your information. There are serious real
issues with burning Styrofoam.

One source http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem00053.htm says

"1. Polystyrene readily de-polymerizes at "campfire temperatures" giving
off styrene vapor, which may or may not burn. Styrene vapor is toxic.
Burning polystyrene has a characteristic odor which is largely styrene
vapor."

A quick search will find many more. Under ideal controled conditions
you may be right, but in real world conditions there are real problems.

When in doubt, error on the side of caution and always follow the code.

Burning anything aside from wood in a campfire is pretty stupid. This does
not address any other issues. Nor do they give much in the way of specifics
"may or may not" ??? Does that mean they really don't know?

"Geoman" wrote in message
...
Seems to be a difference of opinions here. My friend who is a plastic
engineer in the foam business disagrees with you completely on this when I
spoke to him years ago about this very subject.

Check out this government site who sponsored Penn State for research on
this subject. It conflicts with what you post says Ed. Also, the part on
HOW the tests are done is extremely interesting.

http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d001001...7/d001007.html

More here

http://www.google.com/search?q=flame...oard&hl=en&lr=

Most of what is stated here is exactly what I said. They are lumping
together a lot of foams here. I was addressing two types of styrene based
boards. I've witnessed some of the testing. Under the right
circumstances, yes, it will burn and give off a lot of soot. I never denied
that. I've also seen where it offered more protection than other wall
coverings that are considered acceptable. When used properly it is
perfectly safe. When not used properly, it can and will burn. As pointed
out in the web page, there are MANY different foams.

Ed I just lit up a piece outside , it burnt right up till it was gone. I
have 4 types in my house, I bet they will all burn up completely with my
Bic lighter

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Ed I just lit up a piece outside , it burnt right up till it was gone. I
have 4 types in my house, I bet they will all burn up completely with my
Bic lighter


Did you remove the flame? Yes, it will burn as long as there is a source of
ignition. When you take away the source, it will go out. Assuming you are
using insulation grade material. I've been doing that test frequently for
the past 35 years on hundreds of batches of material and it has never
failed.

Yes Ed I removed the flame and the blue foamboard burnt by itself till
it was gone, Im going to try some more different brands.

Well I just tried it again, it took 5-10 seconds to ligh then burnt on
its own till it consumed itself. It was Dow blue styrofoam board R 5.5"

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Maybe you better update your information. There are serious real
issues with burning Styrofoam.

One source
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem00053.htm says "1.
Polystyrene readily de-polymerizes at "campfire temperatures"
giving off styrene vapor, which may or may not burn. Styrene vapor
is toxic. Burning polystyrene has a characteristic odor which is
largely styrene vapor."

A quick search will find many more. Under ideal controled
conditions you may be right, but in real world conditions there are
real problems. When in doubt, error on the side of caution and always
follow the
code.

Burning anything aside from wood in a campfire is pretty stupid. This does
not address any other issues. Nor do they give much in the
way of specifics "may or may not" ??? Does that mean they really
don't know?

That means it depends on the conditions. Let's face it do you really
want to use a material in a way that it MIGHT kill you?

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
That means it depends on the conditions. Let's face it do you really
want to use a material in a way that it MIGHT kill you?

--
Joseph Meehan

Anything MIGHT kill you if the house is on fire. If the house is not on
fire, it is as safe or safer than most of the other material you have. Add
together all the carpeting, upholstery, bedding, wall coverings, and
something in there will surely kill you if it burns. Of it will give you
cancer.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
That means it depends on the conditions. Let's face it do you
really want to use a material in a way that it MIGHT kill you?

--
Joseph Meehan

Anything MIGHT kill you if the house is on fire. If the house is not
on fire, it is as safe or safer than most of the other material you
have. Add together all the carpeting, upholstery, bedding, wall
coverings, and something in there will surely kill you if it burns. Of it
will give you cancer.

Very true. I was found to have cancer 35 years ago and I was given a
10% chance of living 5 years. Today after about a dozen new cancer sites, I
am still here. It may get me someday, but I am working on staying ahead. I
avoid the sun and use sun screen. I do the same in my home. If I know
something offers a possible hazard I avoid using it, especially when there
are viable alternatives. I do suggest that you no longer suggest that there
is no danger or to overly minimize the danger.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
I do suggest that you no longer suggest that there is no danger or to
overly minimize the danger.


That is your opinion. Mine differs and I will continue to inform people of
FACTS. Do as you please.