We are thinking about installing a door in our master bedroom where we
currently have a window. This would allow us to walk out onto a private
patio.

Our window is 4 feet wide x 5 feet high. Because of the interior and
exterior wall finishes, I want the width of the door to be the same 4'
width as the window. This way I can simply cut away the wall beneath the
window, set the door, and install new trim (there are no electrical cables
beneath the window). I DO NOT want to widen the door frame as this would
require a new header, rerouting electrical cables, etc. I also do not want
to narrow the frame as we want the light, and don't want to try matching
the interior/exterior finishes. However, the 4' width is a kind of an odd
size for a door.

As I see it I have a few options...

1. A single 4' wide door. Obviously a custom door, and extremely large. I'm
not sure that we have the space in the room to swing a 4' door inside.

2. A 3' wide door with a 1' sidelight. This would reduce the swing into the
room, but a narrow sidelight wouldn't really fit the look of the house
(inside or outside).

3. A 4' wide french door. Basically a 2' wide door with fixed 2' sidelight.
This would look more "balanced" and would probably fit the house style
better, but I'm concerned the door itself would end up even narrower due to
the door jambs and whatnot. I'm worried the door opening could end up being
20" or less by the time I was finished. All of the other doors in our house
are 36" wide, so that would be kind of narrow.

4. A 4' wide sliding door. This would have the advantage of not needing to
swing into the room, but like #3 above, the sliding portion of the door may
end up rather narrow.

This will only be an accessory door going to a private patio, so it doesn't
necessarily have to be a full size door. But, I don't want it to have to
"Squeeze" through the doorway either.

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing the pro's and con's of each
approach.

Thanks,

Anthony

"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
We are thinking about installing a door in our master bedroom where we
currently have a window. This would allow us to walk out onto a private
patio.

Our window is 4 feet wide x 5 feet high. Because of the interior and
exterior wall finishes, I want the width of the door to be the same 4'
width as the window. This way I can simply cut away the wall beneath the
window, set the door, and install new trim (there are no electrical cables
beneath the window). I DO NOT want to widen the door frame as this would
require a new header, rerouting electrical cables, etc. I also do not want
to narrow the frame as we want the light, and don't want to try matching
the interior/exterior finishes. However, the 4' width is a kind of an odd
size for a door.

As I see it I have a few options...

1. A single 4' wide door. Obviously a custom door, and extremely large.
I'm
not sure that we have the space in the room to swing a 4' door inside.

2. A 3' wide door with a 1' sidelight. This would reduce the swing into
the
room, but a narrow sidelight wouldn't really fit the look of the house
(inside or outside).

3. A 4' wide french door. Basically a 2' wide door with fixed 2'
sidelight.
This would look more "balanced" and would probably fit the house style
better, but I'm concerned the door itself would end up even narrower due
to
the door jambs and whatnot. I'm worried the door opening could end up
being
20" or less by the time I was finished. All of the other doors in our
house
are 36" wide, so that would be kind of narrow.

4. A 4' wide sliding door. This would have the advantage of not needing to
swing into the room, but like #3 above, the sliding portion of the door
may
end up rather narrow.

This will only be an accessory door going to a private patio, so it
doesn't
necessarily have to be a full size door. But, I don't want it to have to
"Squeeze" through the doorway either.

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing the pro's and con's of each
approach.

Thanks,

Anthony

3' door with 6" of wood panel of some type on each side. it would have to be
custom made, but you could get carving or some such to make it decorative.

"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
(text snipped down to)
I also do not want to narrow the frame as we want the light,
and don't want to try matching
the interior/exterior finishes.

did you consider narrowing the frame down for a 36" wide door, use a door
with a window for light, even if a small window in the top of the door, fill
in gap on each side of door with solid materials (maybe even pillars, split
vertically and put 1/2 inside and/or 1/2 outside) or 4" glass block on each
side?

did you consider narrowing the frame down for a 36" wide door, use a
door with a window for light, even if a small window in the top of the
door, fill in gap on each side of door with solid materials (maybe
even pillars, split vertically and put 1/2 inside and/or 1/2 outside)
or 4" glass block on each side?

I do not want to use any type of "filler" materials around the door. Our
home has a "rustic" decor with knotty pine walls on the inside, and a rough
sawn lumber on the exterior.

Whatever door option I go with will have glass panes in the door to let in
the light as the window currently does.

Thanks,

Anthony

HerHusband wrote:

We are thinking about installing a door in our master bedroom where we
currently have a window. This would allow us to walk out onto a private
patio.

.....Be sure there's adequate header over the new door installation...

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:29:13 -0600, HerHusband
wrote:

We are thinking about installing a door in our master bedroom where we
currently have a window. This would allow us to walk out onto a private
patio.

Our window is 4 feet wide x 5 feet high. Because of the interior and
exterior wall finishes, I want the width of the door to be the same 4'
width as the window. This way I can simply cut away the wall beneath the
window, set the door, and install new trim (there are no electrical cables
beneath the window). I DO NOT want to widen the door frame as this would
require a new header, rerouting electrical cables, etc. I also do not want
to narrow the frame as we want the light, and don't want to try matching
the interior/exterior finishes. However, the 4' width is a kind of an odd
size for a door.

As I see it I have a few options...


You left out the option of putting in french doors BOTH of which move,
and the option of just switching to casement windows and either
putting stairs up to the windowsill, or not. As long as the window
opens up wide enough so that you can get through it comfortably,
why does it have to be a floor-level opening? Is one of you in
a wheelchair?

--Goedjn

Or just go through the window opening to get to the patio...

Another option you have completely left out is instead of putting in a
french door, put in a dutch one. This way, you can play "store"
whenever you want to. Have your wife put some canned goods out on the
patio; and then you stand in the bedroom. She brings the canned goods
up to the door, and one by one, you pick them up and go "ka-ching!" (a
pretend store clerk with a pretend cash register) and put them in a
paper bag. Or she can stand behind the door, and you bring the canned
goods up to her. Alternatively, instead of canned goods, you can use
fresh, or not so fresh produce. If you use fresh, then whoever is
playing the customer can comment on how wonderful the produce is today.
If you use not so fresh, then the customer can complain, and ask for
their money back. Then, after you give them back the money, and they
turn their back, you make a face at them. When you stop and think about
it, the possibilities of what you can do are nearly limitless. What was
that TV show where they had a dutch door? Hmmmmm I don't remember now,
but it was very funny, because it was in a court or something, and the
wrong people were always going through it!

On 2005-01-28, Duane Bozarth wrote:

....Be sure there's adequate header over the new door installation...

Is there some reason a door requires a bigger header than a window of
the same width? Or are you suggesting that if the house is older, it
may not have been built to modern standards, so that the header size
should be checked as part of a project like this?

Cheers, Wayne

On 1/28/2005 3:40 PM US(ET), Wayne Whitney took fingers to keys, and
typed the following:

On 2005-01-28, Duane Bozarth wrote:



....Be sure there's adequate header over the new door installation...



Is there some reason a door requires a bigger header than a window of
the same width? Or are you suggesting that if the house is older, it
may not have been built to modern standards, so that the header size
should be checked as part of a project like this?

Cheers, Wayne



The header, if properly installed, does not care whether what is
installed below is a window, door, archway, or any other opening which
would require that some supporting studs be removed, as long as the
header spans the width of the rough opening and is properly supported at
the ends.

--
Bill

willshak wrote:

On 1/28/2005 3:40 PM US(ET), Wayne Whitney took fingers to keys, and
typed the following:

On 2005-01-28, Duane Bozarth wrote:



....Be sure there's adequate header over the new door installation...



Is there some reason a door requires a bigger header than a window of
the same width? Or are you suggesting that if the house is older, it
may not have been built to modern standards, so that the header size
should be checked as part of a project like this?

Cheers, Wayne



The header, if properly installed, does not care whether what is
installed below is a window, door, archway, or any other opening which
would require that some supporting studs be removed, as long as the
header spans the width of the rough opening and is properly supported at
the ends.

That's the if...I've seen a lot where a window header isn't what it
ought to be, more so than doors for some reason...

On 1/28/2005 4:19 PM US(ET), Duane Bozarth took fingers to keys, and
typed the following:

willshak wrote:


On 1/28/2005 3:40 PM US(ET), Wayne Whitney took fingers to keys, and
typed the following:



On 2005-01-28, Duane Bozarth wrote:





....Be sure there's adequate header over the new door installation...




Is there some reason a door requires a bigger header than a window of
the same width? Or are you suggesting that if the house is older, it
may not have been built to modern standards, so that the header size
should be checked as part of a project like this?

Cheers, Wayne





The header, if properly installed, does not care whether what is
installed below is a window, door, archway, or any other opening which
would require that some supporting studs be removed, as long as the
header spans the width of the rough opening and is properly supported at
the ends.



That's the if...I've seen a lot where a window header isn't what it
ought to be, more so than doors for some reason...



It depends upon whether the wall where the opening is located is a
load-bearing supporting wall or a non-load-bearing partition wall. Since
windows and exterior doors are almost always located in load-bearing
supporting walls (all exterior walls are load-bearing), they require a
suitable header. A partition wall does not usually require a supporting
header above an interior opening, since the partition wall is not a
supporting structure. Of course, larger openings in a partition wall
require a suitable header to prevent sagging.

--
Bill

But if it's already a window, the header should already be there and
adequate ( assuming it was constructed correctly) for the wall no matter if
it's load bearing or not.

--

Mikey S.
http://www.mike721.com


"willshak" wrote in message
...
It depends upon whether the wall where the opening is located is a
load-bearing supporting wall or a non-load-bearing partition wall. Since
windows and exterior doors are almost always located in load-bearing
supporting walls (all exterior walls are load-bearing), they require a
suitable header. A partition wall does not usually require a supporting
header above an interior opening, since the partition wall is not a
supporting structure. Of course, larger openings in a partition wall
require a suitable header to prevent sagging.

--
Bill

Why not a 4 foot French door where both open, you can open just one door or
both if you want the wide opening?

--

Mikey S.
http://www.mike721.com


"HerHusband" wrote in message
...

3. A 4' wide french door. Basically a 2' wide door with fixed 2'
sidelight.
This would look more "balanced" and would probably fit the house style
better, but I'm concerned the door itself would end up even narrower due
to
the door jambs and whatnot. I'm worried the door opening could end up
being
20" or less by the time I was finished. All of the other doors in our
house
are 36" wide, so that would be kind of narrow.

On 1/28/2005 5:38 PM US(ET), Mikey S. took fingers to keys, and typed
the following:

But if it's already a window, the header should already be there and
adequate ( assuming it was constructed correctly) for the wall no matter if
it's load bearing or not.



That's what I said in my original response. What you quoted was my
response to another message.


--
Bill

HerHusband wrote:
We are thinking about installing a door in our master bedroom where
we
currently have a window. This would allow us to walk out onto a
private
patio.

Our window is 4 feet wide x 5 feet high. Because of the interior and
exterior wall finishes, I want the width of the door to be the same
4'
width as the window. This way I can simply cut away the wall beneath
the
window, set the door, and install new trim (there are no electrical
cables
beneath the window). I DO NOT want to widen the door frame as this
would
require a new header, rerouting electrical cables, etc. I also do not
want
to narrow the frame as we want the light, and don't want to try
matching
the interior/exterior finishes. However, the 4' width is a kind of an
odd
size for a door.

As I see it I have a few options...

1. A single 4' wide door. Obviously a custom door, and extremely
large. I'm
not sure that we have the space in the room to swing a 4' door
inside.

2. A 3' wide door with a 1' sidelight. This would reduce the swing
into the
room, but a narrow sidelight wouldn't really fit the look of the
house
(inside or outside).

3. A 4' wide french door. Basically a 2' wide door with fixed 2'
sidelight.
This would look more "balanced" and would probably fit the house
style
better, but I'm concerned the door itself would end up even narrower
due to
the door jambs and whatnot. I'm worried the door opening could end up
being
20" or less by the time I was finished. All of the other doors in our
house
are 36" wide, so that would be kind of narrow.

4. A 4' wide sliding door. This would have the advantage of not
needing to
swing into the room, but like #3 above, the sliding portion of the
door may
end up rather narrow.

This will only be an accessory door going to a private patio, so it
doesn't
necessarily have to be a full size door. But, I don't want it to have
to
"Squeeze" through the doorway either.

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing the pro's and con's of each
approach.

Thanks,

Anthony

You can have your 4 ft door (minus jambs of course) or any width up to
that without a problem. Make the door swing out. I really don't
understand why people don't do that. It frees up an amazing amount of
space inside and obviates taffic patter problems.

As for 2 french doors - nope. You would have to open both halves every
time you went in or out as 1/2 will be to narrow for use.

Slider probably not an option. The opening part has to slide to or
into something. Can't do it in the same opening again as 1/2 the
opening is too narrow for use.

Harry K

Wayne,

....Be sure there's adequate header over the new door installation...

may not have been built to modern standards,
so that the header size should be checked

We just finished building the house a few months ago. The 4' window is in a
load bearing wall and is supported by a header built of two 2x10's. Plenty
strong enough.

I'm just looking at different options for putting a door where that window
is.

Anthony

On 2005-01-29, Harry K wrote:

You can have your 4 ft door (minus jambs of course) or any width up
to that without a problem. Make the door swing out. I really don't
understand why people don't do that. It frees up an amazing amount
of space inside and obviates taffic patter problems.

I believe it is mainly convention, that residential exterior doors
swing in, while commercial exterior doors swing out. Also, the UBC
requires that with an outswing door, the exterior landing is at most
1" below the door threshold, I think.

Cheers, Wayne

"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message
...
On 2005-01-29, Harry K wrote:

You can have your 4 ft door (minus jambs of course) or any width up
to that without a problem. Make the door swing out. I really don't
understand why people don't do that. It frees up an amazing amount
of space inside and obviates taffic patter problems.

I believe it is mainly convention, that residential exterior doors
swing in, while commercial exterior doors swing out. Also, the UBC
requires that with an outswing door, the exterior landing is at most
1" below the door threshold, I think.

Cheers, Wayne


It is more than convention, it is code. By having the residential door swing
in, it is not blocked by people who don't like you, or snow outside, thus
blocking your escape.

Very important in an emergency. Commercial places have the door swing out
for a similar reason they will be pushed out in a panic. People would
otherwise be crushed in a fire. This has happened in panic situations.

Code?? It may be but I would like a cite for that to believe it.
Harry K