I have an auxiliary water heater, 110V electric, in a master bedroom
that's about 50 feet from the "hot water core" of the house. It's worked
perfectly for nearly two years, but now has started venting regularly
from the popoff valve. (Which made a mess, initially, as I hadn't
bothered to install a proper drainoff line...)

I've fixed and tried everything and it's still occurring; anyone who has
a clue as to why is most cordially invited to share a clue with me.

1) It's a 2.5 gallon 110V electric that feeds only the sink.
2) It was recently reinstalled with tidier plumbing in a remodel - the
first round was kind of hacked and slashed into the existing cabinet.
3) Both the cold tap and the heater pull from the cold water line; the
existing hot supply line is capped.
4) It worked perfectly for a year before, and for a couple of months
after the remodel.
5) The temp was set moderately, about 125. I've tried cycling the temp
setting back and forth to free any stickiness and set it down to 110.
6) I flushed the blowoff valve several times.
7) I emptied some hard water scale and grit from it while replacing the
blowoff valve.
8) I finally switched the fraggin' thing off for a couple of days.

It continues to vent, about a cup at a time, several times a day. It's
apparently unrelated to the heating function, since it's still doing it
with the power off. I can't match the blowoff to any other event in the
house (showers, other water use, etc.) And the main heater isn't doing
it.

Either I got a bad valve with the new one, or there's some sort of surge
in the lines exceeding the 150 psi blowoff point. Or...?

--
|=- James Gifford = FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY -=|
|=- So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? -=|

Id try yet another new Relief Valve (popoff valve) . Providing your
thermostat/element is working correctly, if a new Relief Valve doesnt do
the trick, id get rid of the water heater. You can get a 2.5 gallon
Water Heater for $119 in Home DePot.

James Gifford wrote:
I have an auxiliary water heater, 110V electric, in a master bedroom
that's about 50 feet from the "hot water core" of the house. It's
worked perfectly for nearly two years, but now has started venting
regularly from the popoff valve. (Which made a mess, initially, as I
hadn't bothered to install a proper drainoff line...)

I've fixed and tried everything and it's still occurring; anyone who
has a clue as to why is most cordially invited to share a clue with
me.

1) It's a 2.5 gallon 110V electric that feeds only the sink.
2) It was recently reinstalled with tidier plumbing in a remodel - the
first round was kind of hacked and slashed into the existing cabinet.
3) Both the cold tap and the heater pull from the cold water line; the
existing hot supply line is capped.
4) It worked perfectly for a year before, and for a couple of months
after the remodel.
5) The temp was set moderately, about 125. I've tried cycling the temp
setting back and forth to free any stickiness and set it down to 110.
6) I flushed the blowoff valve several times.
7) I emptied some hard water scale and grit from it while replacing
the blowoff valve.
8) I finally switched the fraggin' thing off for a couple of days.

It continues to vent, about a cup at a time, several times a day. It's
apparently unrelated to the heating function, since it's still doing
it with the power off. I can't match the blowoff to any other event
in the house (showers, other water use, etc.) And the main heater
isn't doing it.

Either I got a bad valve with the new one, or there's some sort of
surge in the lines exceeding the 150 psi blowoff point. Or...?

=- James Gifford = FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY -=|
=- So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? -=|

My suggestions are likely a bad valve. Other possibilities include an
increase in water pressure supplied to the heater, or a pressure build up in
your system when the water is heated. You may need an expansion tank. If
you have anti-water hammer devices they may work as expansion tanks until
they fill with water and maybe draining them may help.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

(JustCallMe Norman) wrote:
Id try yet another new Relief Valve (popoff valve) . Providing your
thermostat/element is working correctly, if a new Relief Valve doesnt do
the trick, id get rid of the water heater. You can get a 2.5 gallon
Water Heater for $119 in Home DePot.

I can't see any flaw in the heater itself that would be causing this - it's
100% the popoff valve, and the only thing the heater could be doing is
overheating - which it can't, with the power off. I've never encountered
overtemp water, either, so I don't think that's happening.

Someone elsewhere suggested that it might be water hammer, exaggerated by
the long piping run, causing brief overpressure. I'm going to do the drain-
the-house thing to empty the hammer shock absorbers and see.

--
|=- James Gifford = FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY -=|
|=- So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? -=|

"Joseph Meehan" wrote:
My suggestions are likely a bad valve.

That would be two of them - strange. I could hunt down a better-quality
one than HD gar-bahz, maybe.

increase in water pressure supplied to the heater, or a pressure build
up in your system when the water is heated. You may need an expansion
tank.

If turning the heater off had stopped the problem, I would have had an
avenue to work on - overheating, excessive expansion, etc. But it does it
with the power off and the tank ice-cold. Strange!

If you have anti-water hammer devices they may work as expansion tanks
until they fill with water and maybe draining them may help.

Draining the lines to clear the hammer-stoppers is the next step -
haven't done it for several years. I just really hate putting up with all
the sputtery, hissing faucets afterward.

--
|=- James Gifford = FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY -=|
|=- So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? -=|

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 23:01:06 -0000, James Gifford
wrote:

I have an auxiliary water heater, 110V electric, in a master bedroom
that's about 50 feet from the "hot water core" of the house. It's worked
perfectly for nearly two years, but now has started venting regularly
from the popoff valve. (Which made a mess, initially, as I hadn't
bothered to install a proper drainoff line...)

I've fixed and tried everything and it's still occurring; anyone who has
a clue as to why is most cordially invited to share a clue with me.

1) It's a 2.5 gallon 110V electric that feeds only the sink.
2) It was recently reinstalled with tidier plumbing in a remodel - the
first round was kind of hacked and slashed into the existing cabinet.
3) Both the cold tap and the heater pull from the cold water line; the
existing hot supply line is capped.
4) It worked perfectly for a year before, and for a couple of months
after the remodel.
5) The temp was set moderately, about 125. I've tried cycling the temp
setting back and forth to free any stickiness and set it down to 110.
6) I flushed the blowoff valve several times.
7) I emptied some hard water scale and grit from it while replacing the
blowoff valve.
8) I finally switched the fraggin' thing off for a couple of days.

It continues to vent, about a cup at a time, several times a day. It's
apparently unrelated to the heating function, since it's still doing it
with the power off. I can't match the blowoff to any other event in the
house (showers, other water use, etc.) And the main heater isn't doing
it.

Either I got a bad valve with the new one, or there's some sort of surge
in the lines exceeding the 150 psi blowoff point. Or...?

You need to find out what your water pressure is at or near that
device. If the pressure is indeed exceeding the 150psi then you need
an expansion tank. Your local city may have recently installed a
backflow preventer on your water line. Of course the likely hood of a
2nd bad relief valve is there but I doubt it. Then again, maybe that
undersink water heater is just a piece of chit!
Bubba

James Gifford wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

My suggestions are likely a bad valve.


That would be two of them - strange. I could hunt down a better-quality
one than HD gar-bahz, maybe.


increase in water pressure supplied to the heater, or a pressure build
up in your system when the water is heated. You may need an expansion
tank.


If turning the heater off had stopped the problem, I would have had an
avenue to work on - overheating, excessive expansion, etc. But it does it
with the power off and the tank ice-cold. Strange!


If you have anti-water hammer devices they may work as expansion tanks
until they fill with water and maybe draining them may help.


Draining the lines to clear the hammer-stoppers is the next step -
haven't done it for several years. I just really hate putting up with all
the sputtery, hissing faucets afterward.


It's the valve, period! Ok, the first valve went bad. The
second valve may also been bad or you may be the problem. I
think your original statement gave a clue, "I flushed the
blowoff valve several times." Buy a new valve and leave it
alone. DO NOT operate the valve after you install it, and
if you are of the persuasion to test it (foolish in my
opinion), then you need to operate (reseat) the valve under
zero water pressure conditions (that is turn off the cold
water, open a hot water tap, wait until their is only a drip
coming out, and then operate the t/p valve. If you feel
the need to test the t/p valve (operate as part of safety
tests for some other purpose) you would be better off
removing the valve and replacing with a new valve. This is a
constant subject in RV groups which find that t/p valves may
not seat correctly under pressure. You may get away with
sometimes, but you won't get away with it all the time.

Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 23:01:06 -0000, James Gifford
wrote:

I have an auxiliary water heater, 110V electric, in a master bedroom
that's about 50 feet from the "hot water core" of the house. It's
worked perfectly for nearly two years, but now has started venting
regularly from the popoff valve. (Which made a mess, initially, as I
hadn't bothered to install a proper drainoff line...)

I've fixed and tried everything and it's still occurring; anyone who
has a clue as to why is most cordially invited to share a clue with
me.

1) It's a 2.5 gallon 110V electric that feeds only the sink.
2) It was recently reinstalled with tidier plumbing in a remodel -
the first round was kind of hacked and slashed into the existing
cabinet. 3) Both the cold tap and the heater pull from the cold
water line; the existing hot supply line is capped.
4) It worked perfectly for a year before, and for a couple of months
after the remodel.
5) The temp was set moderately, about 125. I've tried cycling the
temp setting back and forth to free any stickiness and set it down
to 110. 6) I flushed the blowoff valve several times.
7) I emptied some hard water scale and grit from it while replacing
the blowoff valve.
8) I finally switched the fraggin' thing off for a couple of days.

It continues to vent, about a cup at a time, several times a day.
It's apparently unrelated to the heating function, since it's still
doing it with the power off. I can't match the blowoff to any other
event in the house (showers, other water use, etc.) And the main
heater isn't doing it.

Either I got a bad valve with the new one, or there's some sort of
surge in the lines exceeding the 150 psi blowoff point. Or...?

You need to find out what your water pressure is at or near that
device. If the pressure is indeed exceeding the 150psi then you need
an expansion tank.

and pressure regulator.

Your local city may have recently installed a
backflow preventer on your water line. Of course the likely hood of a
2nd bad relief valve is there but I doubt it. Then again, maybe that
undersink water heater is just a piece of chit!
Bubba

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Is there a "shock absorber" (first time I've seen it called that)
near the sink? A 50' run's an awful long ways to not have one
there. But, since it did work and doesn't now, you're probably
on the right track unless that valve is just no good.

Pop


James Gifford wrote:
(JustCallMe Norman) wrote:
Id try yet another new Relief Valve (popoff valve) .
Providing your
thermostat/element is working correctly, if a new Relief
Valve
doesnt do the trick, id get rid of the water heater. You can
get a
2.5 gallon Water Heater for $119 in Home DePot.

I can't see any flaw in the heater itself that would be
causing this
- it's 100% the popoff valve, and the only thing the heater
could be
doing is overheating - which it can't, with the power off.
I've
never encountered overtemp water, either, so I don't think
that's
happening.

Someone elsewhere suggested that it might be water hammer,
exaggerated by the long piping run, causing brief
overpressure. I'm
going to do the drain- the-house thing to empty the hammer
shock
absorbers and see.

--
=- James Gifford = FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY -=|
=- So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? -=|

Is there another water heater in the plumbing system also?

In my neck of the woods houses have a backflow preventer out in the
water line from the street.

When I opened any faucet in the house the water would surge out in a
burst then quickly subside to normal flow & I realized that the water
hoses for the clothes washer were acting as an expansion tank and
swelling up quite a bit as the pressure rose due to the cold water
expanding as it was heated, so I added an expansion tank .

Bert

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 02:08:51 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 23:01:06 -0000, James Gifford
wrote:

I have an auxiliary water heater, 110V electric, in a master bedroom
that's about 50 feet from the "hot water core" of the house. It's
worked perfectly for nearly two years, but now has started venting
regularly from the popoff valve. (Which made a mess, initially, as I
hadn't bothered to install a proper drainoff line...)

I've fixed and tried everything and it's still occurring; anyone who
has a clue as to why is most cordially invited to share a clue with
me.

1) It's a 2.5 gallon 110V electric that feeds only the sink.
2) It was recently reinstalled with tidier plumbing in a remodel -
the first round was kind of hacked and slashed into the existing
cabinet. 3) Both the cold tap and the heater pull from the cold
water line; the existing hot supply line is capped.
4) It worked perfectly for a year before, and for a couple of months
after the remodel.
5) The temp was set moderately, about 125. I've tried cycling the
temp setting back and forth to free any stickiness and set it down
to 110. 6) I flushed the blowoff valve several times.
7) I emptied some hard water scale and grit from it while replacing
the blowoff valve.
8) I finally switched the fraggin' thing off for a couple of days.

It continues to vent, about a cup at a time, several times a day.
It's apparently unrelated to the heating function, since it's still
doing it with the power off. I can't match the blowoff to any other
event in the house (showers, other water use, etc.) And the main
heater isn't doing it.

Either I got a bad valve with the new one, or there's some sort of
surge in the lines exceeding the 150 psi blowoff point. Or...?

You need to find out what your water pressure is at or near that
device. If the pressure is indeed exceeding the 150psi then you need
an expansion tank.

and pressure regulator.

Nope! Check the pressure with all faucets closed. Water heater burner
or heating element not on. If pressure is managable, then turn the
water heater burner or electric elements on. Now watch the water
pressure. IF it starts rising, you most likely have a backflow
preventer in the line and you will need an expansion tank. The
pressure regulator on the incoming line to the house is just to
control the amount of pressure you want to your home, usually because
the pressure provided by the city is too high.
Bubba

Your local city may have recently installed a
backflow preventer on your water line. Of course the likely hood of a
2nd bad relief valve is there but I doubt it. Then again, maybe that
undersink water heater is just a piece of chit!
Bubba

"James Gifford" wrote in message
. 3.44...
(JustCallMe Norman) wrote:
Id try yet another new Relief Valve (popoff valve) . Providing your
thermostat/element is working correctly, if a new Relief Valve doesnt do
the trick, id get rid of the water heater. You can get a 2.5 gallon
Water Heater for $119 in Home DePot.

I can't see any flaw in the heater itself that would be causing this - it's
100% the popoff valve, and the only thing the heater could be doing is
overheating - which it can't, with the power off. I've never encountered
overtemp water, either, so I don't think that's happening.

Someone elsewhere suggested that it might be water hammer, exaggerated by
the long piping run, causing brief overpressure. I'm going to do the drain-
the-house thing to empty the hammer shock absorbers and see.

--
|=- James Gifford = FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY -=|
|=- So... your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? -=|

This is Turtle.

Invest $6.00 in a new pop valve and see.

TURTLE

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

snip
If you feel
the need to test the t/p valve (operate as part of safety
tests for some other purpose) you would be better off
removing the valve and replacing with a new valve. This is a
constant subject in RV groups which find that t/p valves may
not seat correctly under pressure. You may get away with
sometimes, but you won't get away with it all the time.

If the TO&UP valve won't seat under pressure, it is not functioning properly
and might not work if needed. I have always found the dribbling valve after
a test problem to be cured by letting a little water flow out the valve open
fully before letting it spring back to do the trick.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

"Bubba" wrote in message
...

Nope! Check the pressure with all faucets closed. Water heater burner
or heating element not on. If pressure is managable, then turn the
water heater burner or electric elements on. Now watch the water
pressure. IF it starts rising, you most likely have a backflow
preventer in the line and you will need an expansion tank. The
pressure regulator on the incoming line to the house is just to
control the amount of pressure you want to your home, usually because
the pressure provided by the city is too high.
Bubba


IOW, its probly the other water heater that's causing the ( closed ) system
to over pressurize.

--

SVL

Roger Shoaf wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

snip
If you feel

the need to test the t/p valve (operate as part of safety
tests for some other purpose) you would be better off
removing the valve and replacing with a new valve. This is a
constant subject in RV groups which find that t/p valves may
not seat correctly under pressure. You may get away with
sometimes, but you won't get away with it all the time.


If the TO&UP valve won't seat under pressure, it is not functioning properly
and might not work if needed. I have always found the dribbling valve after
a test problem to be cured by letting a little water flow out the valve open
fully before letting it spring back to do the trick.



First, dribbling is "not functioning properly" but likely no
indication that the valve won't pop open under high temp or
pressure. In fact, a case could be made that a dribbling
valve is more likely to pop open since it is already
partially open.

Your experience on dribbling valves is by no means universal.

Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 02:08:51 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:


....


You need to find out what your water pressure is at or near that
device. If the pressure is indeed exceeding the 150psi then you need
an expansion tank.

and pressure regulator.

Nope! Check the pressure with all faucets closed. Water heater burner
or heating element not on. If pressure is managable, then turn the
water heater burner or electric elements on. Now watch the water
pressure. IF it starts rising, you most likely have a backflow
preventer in the line and you will need an expansion tank. The
pressure regulator on the incoming line to the house is just to
control the amount of pressure you want to your home, usually because
the pressure provided by the city is too high.
Bubba


I think we are both right, and I hope we can agree and therefore give
the best possible advice.

You are right if the 150 lbs of pressure is a result of a backflow valve
and a water heater. That may well be true and I would expect it to be the
most likely issue.

However if there is not backflow valve or there is one and it is not the
water heater but rather the street pressure that is over 150 lbs, then a
pressure regulator is needed or the one there replaced.


--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math