Just wanted some opinions on the best way to add a HWH to the system. The
problem is not the temperature of the water but the amount. The current
electric tank is 50 gals and I have two girls and a boy to deal with. I don't
think the volume is enough. The question is do I add it in series (as a
"pre-warmer") or do I add it closer to the other side of the house (parallel to
the system)? I'm not really interested in a tankless water heater.
v/r
Jerry

BRAVO52 wrote:
Just wanted some opinions on the best way to add a HWH to the system.
The
problem is not the temperature of the water but the amount. The
current
electric tank is 50 gals and I have two girls and a boy to deal with.
I don't
think the volume is enough. The question is do I add it in series
(as a
"pre-warmer") or do I add it closer to the other side of the house
(parallel to
the system)? I'm not really interested in a tankless water heater.
v/r
Jerry

Consider a tankless water heater, here are some brands:

http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Category.aspx?ID=8

You can install them at the point of use, or use them for the whole
house.

In article , bravo52
@aol.com (BRAVO52) says...
Just wanted some opinions on the best way to add a HWH to the system. The
problem is not the temperature of the water but the amount. The current
electric tank is 50 gals and I have two girls and a boy to deal with. I don't
think the volume is enough. The question is do I add it in series (as a
"pre-warmer") or do I add it closer to the other side of the house (parallel to
the system)? I'm not really interested in a tankless water heater.

Have you considered flow limited shower heads?

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

I know you said that the problem wasn't the temp, but the amount - but
consider that by turning up the temp on the WH, the user will draw less
hot water during a shower (i.e. keep the mix closer to warm instead of
all the way to hot), which means more hot water will be available. Of
course, you run the risk of scalding that way if you turn it up too
much.

I do know that you DO NOT want to add a water heater in series; if you
decide to add another one, it should be in parallel with the existing
one - but it's tricky to do. The lengths of all the pipes between the 2
WH's MUST be IDENTICAL; as I recall a very small variance can really
screw things up.

If you decide to add another, I recc you call around and have it done
professionally.

On 29 Dec 2004 05:24:08 GMT, (BRAVO52) wrote:

Just wanted some opinions on the best way to add a HWH to the system. The
problem is not the temperature of the water but the amount. The current
electric tank is 50 gals and I have two girls and a boy to deal with. I don't
think the volume is enough.

I'd first find out if the old heater is full of sediment; replacing it
if it is might be all that is needed. If you don't have low-flow
shower heads, installing them would also help. Then there is always
the turn the hot water off after ten minutes solution.

BRAVO52 wrote:
Just wanted some opinions on the best way to add a HWH to the system. The
problem is not the temperature of the water but the amount. The current
electric tank is 50 gals and I have two girls and a boy to deal with. I don't
think the volume is enough. The question is do I add it in series (as a
"pre-warmer") or do I add it closer to the other side of the house (parallel to
the system)? I'm not really interested in a tankless water heater.
v/r
Jerry

Hot water doesn't need to be heated.

Showers take a lot less water than sit down baths. Might be worth asking
them to shower instead.

If a 50 electric isn't supplying the heat, it makes me wonder if you have a
bad dip tube, or perhaps the bottom element isn't heating. A plumber oughta
be able to answer these.

I think I remember that gas heaters recover more quickly. Do you ahve gas
or propane available?

--

Christopher A. Young
This space intentionally left blank
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"BRAVO52" wrote in message
...
Just wanted some opinions on the best way to add a HWH to the system. The
problem is not the temperature of the water but the amount. The current
electric tank is 50 gals and I have two girls and a boy to deal with. I
don't
think the volume is enough. The question is do I add it in series (as a
"pre-warmer") or do I add it closer to the other side of the house (parallel
to
the system)? I'm not really interested in a tankless water heater.
v/r
Jerry

"Matt" wrote in message
I do know that you DO NOT want to add a water heater in series; if you
decide to add another one, it should be in parallel with the existing
one - but it's tricky to do. The lengths of all the pipes between the 2
WH's MUST be IDENTICAL; as I recall a very small variance can really
screw things up.

And how/why do you know this? Series makes more sense to me. Then you can
turn the first one off if you don't need it.

Bob

BRAVO52 wrote:
Just wanted some opinions on the best way to add a HWH to the system.
The problem is not the temperature of the water but the amount. The
current electric tank is 50 gals and I have two girls and a boy to
deal with. I don't think the volume is enough. The question is do I
add it in series (as a "pre-warmer") or do I add it closer to the
other side of the house (parallel to the system)? I'm not really
interested in a tankless water heater.
v/r
Jerry

It's far, far easier to adjust the bathing methodologies. For example, in
showering, the kids may be turning the HOT all the way up then adjusting the
temperature with the COLD. Have them turn on the COLD for the proper flow,
then adjust the temperature with the HOT supply.

You can get a shower head on a flexible hose with a push-button - the navy
uses them. Wet down, lather up, rinse. Uses about two cups of water for the
whole shower.

If they bathe instead of shower, they may be generating a miniature swimming
pool.

Dude -

As a user of the standard navy issue showering equipment for 4
years......... what you are suggesting is cruel and unusual punishment.
Water saving - yes. Enjoyable - no. One of the things I most looked
forward to when getting out of the service was a return to a normal,
human shower.

On 29 Dec 2004 05:24:08 GMT, (BRAVO52) wrote:

Just wanted some opinions on the best way to add a HWH to the system. The
problem is not the temperature of the water but the amount. The current
electric tank is 50 gals and I have two girls and a boy to deal with. I don't
think the volume is enough. The question is do I add it in series (as a
"pre-warmer") or do I add it closer to the other side of the house (parallel to
the system)? I'm not really interested in a tankless water heater.
v/r
Jerry

You can add another heater in series with what you have now
effectively doubling your capacity (assuming you use the same size
heater). The only times I have ever seen this the tanks were right
next to each other although I don't see why you couldnt have one at
each end of the house unless the water in the pipe between the two
would be enough to play havoc with the water temp. Doesn't seem like
it would be enough to matter in the big picture but I don't really
know for sure.

Steve B.

Disagree Steve......

As another poster said, hot water does not need to be heated. Hooking 2
heaters in series will not double capacity, it will however double your
fuel bill and cut the life of both water heaters in half.
No disrespect intended, but it just doesn't work that way.

Matt

Hmm.... I believe the answer is, for the question "series or parallel
connection, for water heaters?" is, "it depends". For same-sized tanks,
the best method is reverse-return.
I absolutely disagree with the statement "Hooking 2 heaters in series
will not double capacity, it will however double your fuel bill and cut
the life of both water heaters in half.".
It may be worse, or it may be better, depending on the scenario.

Try this: http://www.contractormag.com/article...m?columnid=260

No disrespect intended, but there is way to little information about
the specific setup to make a recommendation.


Matt wrote:
Disagree Steve......

As another poster said, hot water does not need to be heated. Hooking
2
heaters in series will not double capacity, it will however double
your
fuel bill and cut the life of both water heaters in half.
No disrespect intended, but it just doesn't work that way.

Matt

I read the article, and although they do say that a series
configuration will work (which is news to me, I admit), virtually all
of the rest of the article says use parallel. The only benefits listed
to using a serial configuration were cheaper to install and less piping
to run.

"Although series piping can shave costs and work quite well under many
circumstances, the first tank once again sees the lion's share of the
workload and will no doubt fail long before the second tank. If a
bypass piping arrangement is not in place when that happens,
interruption of service is assured until the first tank is replaced. "
I still maintain the way to go is parallel in all circumstances.

On 30 Dec 2004 07:51:43 -0800, "Matt" wrote:

Disagree Steve......

As another poster said, hot water does not need to be heated. Hooking 2
heaters in series will not double capacity, it will however double your
fuel bill and cut the life of both water heaters in half.
No disrespect intended, but it just doesn't work that way.

Matt

Yes it does work that way...

Cold water flows in to the bottom of the first tank pushing the hot
water out of the first tank in to the bottom of the second tank which
pushes that hot water out the top of the second tank on to the shower.
So you will fill the first tank from the bottom to top giving you 40
gals of hot water then you fill the second tank from top to bottom
giving you a second 40 galls of water. Fuel usage increase will only
be from the reheating of the addtional water it wasnt possible to use
before and the standing loss of the additional tank which isnt that
great now days since tanks are hightly insulated. This setup is very
common in high end homes with the huge garden tubs.

And yes hot water does need to be heated. 60 degree water is "hot"
compared to 32 degree water but that doesnt mean i want to take a
shower in it. Thats a stupid semantics game and I would think most
here were past the age of twelve when those things were funny.

Steve B.

On 30 Dec 2004 08:46:19 -0800, "Matt" wrote:

I still maintain the way to go is parallel in all circumstances.

No disrespect intended but your still wrong..

http://www.rheem.com/includes/resour...ryPDF/1231.pdf


While parallel would be superior in some applications series is also a
reccomended configuration especially if you have two different tanks
with different btu capacity which the OP will most certainly have
unless he wants to add a new tank and replace his existing tank.

Steve B.

Steve -

I already admitted it would work, and that this fact was news to me.

As for the rest, I was just quoting from the source you provided - and
if you re-read it, I think you'll see the consensus is to not go
series.

Now go untwist your panties and come back when you have cooled down a
bit.

On 30 Dec 2004 13:39:22 -0800, "Matt" wrote:

Steve -

I already admitted it would work, and that this fact was news to me.

As for the rest, I was just quoting from the source you provided - and
if you re-read it, I think you'll see the consensus is to not go
series.

Acutally no you weren't quoting from the source I provided and had you
bothered to read the link I provided you would plainly see that they
reccomend that series is the way to go when you have two different
water heaters.



Now go untwist your panties and come back when you have cooled down a
bit.

I'll untwist my panties the day people like you who have no f'ing clue
how something works stop posting their hallf assed assumptions on here
as facts. Until that time I will continue to twist/untwist my
undergarmets in any manner I so choose.

Now go read and book and come back when you have a clue.

Steve B.

Well, that day isn't coming anytime soon, Stevie. I recommend you stock
up on some gold bond to help with your panty chaffing. (And that's a
fact - not an assumption).

"Matt"


Disagree Steve......

As another poster said, hot water does not need to be heated. Hooking 2
heaters in series will not double capacity, it will however double your
fuel bill and cut the life of both water heaters in half.

Bull. Hooking 2 WH's in series WILL double capacity.

The fuel bill will increase some, but there's a demand for more heated water.
Do you know of another way to increase the amount of water heated without
increasing the fuel bill at all?

No disrespect intended, but it just doesn't work that way.

Matt

It works fine that way.

I read the article, and although they do say that a series
configuration will work (which is news to me, I admit), virtually all
of the rest of the article says use parallel.
There are pro's and cons to each method.

The only benefits listed
to using a serial configuration were cheaper to install and less piping
to run.

Sounds pretty beneficial. I would install bypasses and the proper valving so as
to allow an either/or use when either needs to be taken out of service for
replacement.

"Although series piping can shave costs and work quite well under many
circumstances, the first tank once again sees the lion's share of the
workload and will no doubt fail long before the second tank.

What's wrong with that? With one heater only, it see's the "lion's share"
anyway.

If a
bypass piping arrangement is not in place when that happens,
interruption of service is assured until the first tank is replaced. "

Gawsh life sucks.

I still maintain the way to go is parallel in all circumstances.

Assuring both heaters will fail simultaniously.

"Matt" wrote in message
oups.com...
Steve -

I already admitted it would work, and that this fact was news to me.

As for the rest, I was just quoting from the source you provided - and
if you re-read it, I think you'll see the consensus is to not go
series.

Now go untwist your panties and come back when you have cooled down a
bit.


I have read all the posts and any links and I see nothing that said that
hooking them up in series is a poor way to go. just that the first heater
will be doing most of the work, and will not last as long as the second.
So my question is, "what is not as long?". Say you normally get 15 years on
a water heater. Will the first in serries last only 7, the second 15 years?
Or, will the first last 15 years, and the second 25 years?
No where did they say it would shorten the life of the heater, just that it
would not last as long as the second heater. My bet is it may shorten the
life of the first heater slightly, but greatly extend the life of the
second. In parrallel they would run close to the same life. Also your
statement that hooking heaters in series will cost more is rediculous. It
will cost you the same to heat a gallon of water either way, one way will
not heat water more efficiantly, (cheaper), than the other. The second
heater in a series set up may never run, depending on water usage, other
than to re-heat the water if it cools during times of no hot water use.

I have seen quite a few homes with two heaters hooked in series. The second
heater in most cases was not even connected to electricity, it was just a
storage tank. A small circulating pump was connected to circulate water
between both heaters.
I also have seen homes with one gas, and on electric heater, again hooked in
series. We have "off peak" electric in our area and the electric utility
will shut off the power to the electric heater in high demand times, and the
gas heater will take over.
Greg

On 30 Dec 2004 07:51:43 -0800, "Matt" wrote:

Disagree Steve......

As another poster said, hot water does not need to be heated. Hooking 2
heaters in series will not double capacity, it will however double your
fuel bill and cut the life of both water heaters in half.
No disrespect intended, but it just doesn't work that way.

Matt



HUH ????
rj