wrote:

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort. Is there any easy practical way to
humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it. Andersen says an average family of 4 evaporate 2 gallons
of water per day, ie 0.0116 pounds per minute... 70 F air weighs about
0.075 lb/ft^3, so you can raise the RH from wo = 0.0025 pounds of water
per pound of dry air outdoors to wi = 0.0047 indoors (70 F at 30% RH) by
reducing the air leaks until 0.075C(wi-wo) = 0.0116 pounds of water per
minute, ie C = 70 cfm. This will also reduce your heating bill.

Nick

On 16 Nov 2004 12:35:32 -0500, wrote:

wrote:

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort. Is there any easy practical way to
humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it.

They asked for "easy" and they don't own the place. The "easy" way is
to just sit a pot of water on the stove, simmer it, and let it steam.
You can add spices to create a nice fresh scent while you're
humidifying. Try slicing half an apple in the water, they're a frugal
buy this time of year and a refreshing scent.

mama

L. Maurer wrote in message
...
wrote
wrote

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter
when the heat is used, the place really gets dry.
So much so that it dries out the sinus and causes discomfort.
Is there any easy practical way to humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it.

They asked for "easy" and they don't own the place. The "easy" way
is to just sit a pot of water on the stove, simmer it, and let it steam.

Its not actually that easy, particulary the risk of boiling it dry.

Makes more sense to buy a humidifier instead.

You can add spices to create a nice fresh scent while you're
humidifying. Try slicing half an apple in the water, they're a
frugal buy this time of year and a refreshing scent.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

L. Maurer wrote in message
...
wrote
wrote

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter
when the heat is used, the place really gets dry.
So much so that it dries out the sinus and causes discomfort.
Is there any easy practical way to humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it.

They asked for "easy" and they don't own the place. The "easy" way
is to just sit a pot of water on the stove, simmer it, and let it steam.

Its not actually that easy, particulary the risk of boiling it dry.

Makes more sense to buy a humidifier instead.

Lower power and automatic cut off.
You can still add an aroma oil.
I use one in my house and it makes it almost a garden experience.

Dont use your clothes dryer, hang them in the house to dry, it is cheap
as it gets.

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:52:44 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

Dont use your clothes dryer, hang them in the house to dry, it is cheap
as it gets.


Also, your clothes dryer exhausts indoor air which, one way or
another, will be replaced by cold dry outdoor air.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com

Rod Speed wrote:

L. Maurer wrote in message
...
wrote
wrote

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter
when the heat is used, the place really gets dry.
So much so that it dries out the sinus and causes discomfort.
Is there any easy practical way to humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it.

They asked for "easy" and they don't own the place. The "easy" way
is to just sit a pot of water on the stove, simmer it, and let it steam.

Its not actually that easy, particulary the risk of boiling it dry.

Makes more sense to buy a humidifier instead.

Isn't that what taking a shower does? How much energy is lost from
evaporating and sending outside all the water splashed around in taking
a shower?

"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
wrote in message ...


Rod Speed wrote:

L. Maurer wrote in message
...
wrote
wrote

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter
when the heat is used, the place really gets dry.
So much so that it dries out the sinus and causes discomfort.
Is there any easy practical way to humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it.

They asked for "easy" and they don't own the place. The "easy" way
is to just sit a pot of water on the stove, simmer it, and let it steam.

Its not actually that easy, particulary the risk of boiling it dry.

Makes more sense to buy a humidifier instead.

Isn't that what taking a shower does?

Nothing like as convenient as using a humidifier, stupid.

How much energy is lost from evaporating and sending
outside all the water splashed around in taking a shower?

Who cares ?

Rod Speed wrote:

"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
wrote in message ...


Rod Speed wrote:

L. Maurer wrote in message
...
wrote
wrote

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter
when the heat is used, the place really gets dry.
So much so that it dries out the sinus and causes discomfort.
Is there any easy practical way to humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it.

They asked for "easy" and they don't own the place. The "easy" way
is to just sit a pot of water on the stove, simmer it, and let it steam.

Its not actually that easy, particulary the risk of boiling it dry.

Makes more sense to buy a humidifier instead.

Isn't that what taking a shower does?

Nothing like as convenient as using a humidifier, stupid.

So you are going to vent the water vapour that you can get for free and
pay to make more with a humidifier you had to buy? Your a genius, Rod!



How much energy is lost from evaporating and sending
outside all the water splashed around in taking a shower?

Who cares ?

If you just vent the house of that water vapour, that's heat going out
of your house. If you are paying to heat your house, that is money going
out of your house.


--
I heard Clinton buried a time capsule at his new presidential library
sized like an overseas shipping container filled with stuff he didn't
want anyone to find till long after his death, the real deed to
Whitewater, the envelope for the Tyson Foods chicken payoffs, the real
gun he used to whack Foster, the keys to the Exocet missile he took Ron
Brown out with, copies of another few thousand illegally acquired FBI
files on his enemies, tickets to Tahiti from the White House Travel
Office, a few more soiled dresses, a couple of cases of well chewed
Cuban cigars, and the unabridged version of his autobiography. That last
one was touch and go just getting the bugger in.

(read from news:sci.engr.heat-vent-ac
- note header trimming and followups-to)

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:16:27 -0600, L. Maurer
wrote:

On 16 Nov 2004 12:35:32 -0500, wrote:

wrote:

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort. Is there any easy practical way to
humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it.

They asked for "easy" and they don't own the place. The "easy" way is
to just sit a pot of water on the stove, simmer it, and let it steam.
You can add spices to create a nice fresh scent while you're
humidifying. Try slicing half an apple in the water, they're a frugal
buy this time of year and a refreshing scent.

mama


And then they would be harboring mold and condensation, no?

Rather than artificially adding humidity, why not get a good balance?

Of course, if you've got those goddamn casement windows in your place, like
I do, then I inderstand. Especially if it's a rental. Caulking and
weatherstripping is futile in these rat traps. In this case, just keep
treating the carpet with cupric sulfate, the baseboards with captan, and the
windows with malathion. Use chlorine products sparingly, where needed, to
immediately kill and bleach the most aggressive mold.

I live in one of those cheap rentals, and it is terrible.

The best solution is to move out, but real estate being the way it is, and
such... I wish I had better credit!

IHTH, mama.




--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

On 16 Nov 2004 12:35:32 -0500, wrote:

wrote:

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort. Is there any easy practical way to
humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it. Andersen says an average family of 4 evaporate 2 gallons
of water per day, ie 0.0116 pounds per minute... 70 F air weighs about
0.075 lb/ft^3, so you can raise the RH from wo = 0.0025 pounds of water
per pound of dry air outdoors to wi = 0.0047 indoors (70 F at 30% RH) by
reducing the air leaks until 0.075C(wi-wo) = 0.0116 pounds of water per
minute, ie C = 70 cfm. This will also reduce your heating bill.

Or, stop dehimidifying it. Put film over the window frames, or install
double glazing. In the winter, most indoor indoor moisture is lost due to
condensation, not infiltration.

What do you think, Nick?

--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:57:11 -0800, ~^Johnny^~
wrote:

On 16 Nov 2004 12:35:32 -0500, wrote:

wrote:

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort. Is there any easy practical way to
humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it. Andersen says an average family of 4 evaporate 2 gallons
of water per day, ie 0.0116 pounds per minute... 70 F air weighs about
0.075 lb/ft^3, so you can raise the RH from wo = 0.0025 pounds of water
per pound of dry air outdoors to wi = 0.0047 indoors (70 F at 30% RH) by
reducing the air leaks until 0.075C(wi-wo) = 0.0116 pounds of water per
minute, ie C = 70 cfm. This will also reduce your heating bill.

Or, stop dehimidifying it. Put film over the window frames, or install
double glazing. In the winter, most indoor indoor moisture is lost due to
condensation, not infiltration.

Anybody with the slightest bit of knowledge on the subject, or even a
healthy measure of common sense is waiting for your proof on that last
statement. It is not only wrong, but ridiculous. Yet you state it
authoritatively, as if it were a proven fact.


Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com

Gary R. Lloyd wrote:

~^Johnny^~ wrote:

wrote:

wrote:

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort.

We might get used to that, ie adapt. Arizonans do. We might grow more
nose hair or wear mufflers or those foggy alien harmonica holders :-)

Is there any easy practical way to humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it. Andersen says an average family of 4 evaporate 2 gallons
of water per day, ie 0.0116 pounds per minute... 70 F air weighs about
0.075 lb/ft^3, so you can raise the RH from wo = 0.0025 pounds of water
per pound of dry air outdoors to wi = 0.0047 indoors (70 F at 30% RH) by
reducing the air leaks until 0.075C(wi-wo) = 0.0116 pounds of water per
minute, ie C = 70 cfm. This will also reduce your heating bill.

Or, stop dehimidifying it. Put film over the window frames, or install
double glazing. In the winter, most indoor indoor moisture is lost due to
condensation, not infiltration.

Anybody with the slightest bit of knowledge on the subject, or even a
healthy measure of common sense is waiting for your proof on that last
statement. It is not only wrong, but ridiculous. Yet you state it
authoritatively, as if it were a proven fact.

It seems unlikely and undesirable and avoidable, esp in this country.
Canada's IDEAS (post R2000) air infiltration standard specs 0.15 m^3/h
per m^2 of envelope, tested at 50 Pa, which translates into a natural air
leakage of about 2.5 cfm, or 0.008 ACH for a 2400 ft^2 1-story house,
125X less than a typical 1 ACH US house.

Nick

On 17 Nov 2004 09:25:38 -0500, wrote:

Gary R. Lloyd wrote:

~^Johnny^~ wrote:

wrote:

wrote:

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort.

We might get used to that, ie adapt. Arizonans do. We might grow more
nose hair or wear mufflers or those foggy alien harmonica holders :-)

Is there any easy practical way to humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it. Andersen says an average family of 4 evaporate 2 gallons
of water per day, ie 0.0116 pounds per minute... 70 F air weighs about
0.075 lb/ft^3, so you can raise the RH from wo = 0.0025 pounds of water
per pound of dry air outdoors to wi = 0.0047 indoors (70 F at 30% RH) by
reducing the air leaks until 0.075C(wi-wo) = 0.0116 pounds of water per
minute, ie C = 70 cfm. This will also reduce your heating bill.

Or, stop dehimidifying it. Put film over the window frames, or install
double glazing. In the winter, most indoor indoor moisture is lost due to
condensation, not infiltration.

Anybody with the slightest bit of knowledge on the subject, or even a
healthy measure of common sense is waiting for your proof on that last
statement. It is not only wrong, but ridiculous. Yet you state it
authoritatively, as if it were a proven fact.

It seems unlikely and undesirable and avoidable, esp in this country.
Canada's IDEAS (post R2000) air infiltration standard specs 0.15 m^3/h
per m^2 of envelope, tested at 50 Pa, which translates into a natural air
leakage of about 2.5 cfm, or 0.008 ACH for a 2400 ft^2 1-story house,
125X less than a typical 1 ACH US house.

Nick


Is that enough fresh air to sustain life? Would the oxygen deprivation
cause us to be come socialists? Enquiring minds want to know.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
http://www.techmethod.com

Gary R. Lloyd wrote:

Canada's IDEAS (post R2000) air infiltration standard specs 0.15 m^3/h
per m^2 of envelope, tested at 50 Pa, which translates into a natural air
leakage of about 2.5 cfm, or 0.008 ACH for a 2400 ft^2 1-story house,
125X less than a typical 1 ACH US house.

Is that enough fresh air to sustain life?

Almost. Early UK coal miners fell asleep with less than 5 cfm each.

Current ASHRAE humans require 15 cfm.

Nick

In article ,
(Gary R. Lloyd) wrote:

Is that enough fresh air to sustain life? Would the oxygen deprivation
cause us to be come socialists? Enquiring minds want to know.

Nick tends to ignore the fact that the same standards also require
air-to-air heat excahngers (forced ventiliation, not random leakage).

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:05:52 GMT, (Gary R. Lloyd)
wrote:

On 17 Nov 2004 09:25:38 -0500, wrote:

Gary R. Lloyd wrote:

\
It seems unlikely and undesirable and avoidable, esp in this country.
Canada's IDEAS (post R2000) air infiltration standard specs 0.15 m^3/h
per m^2 of envelope, tested at 50 Pa, which translates into a natural air
leakage of about 2.5 cfm, or 0.008 ACH for a 2400 ft^2 1-story house,
125X less than a typical 1 ACH US house.

Nick


Is that enough fresh air to sustain life? Would the oxygen deprivation
cause us to be come socialists? Enquiring minds want to know.


Maine requires very tight construction and power heat recovery
ventilation. My guess is they must have _some_ science behind it.

Sustaining life is an intriguing question, I wonder if they addressed it.
Since the ventilation is powered and extended power outages are common in
the coastal areas of the state!

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

"~^Johnny^~" wrote in message
news
On 16 Nov 2004 12:35:32 -0500, wrote:

wrote:

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort. Is there any easy practical way to
humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it. Andersen says an average family of 4 evaporate 2 gallons
of water per day, ie 0.0116 pounds per minute... 70 F air weighs about
0.075 lb/ft^3, so you can raise the RH from wo = 0.0025 pounds of water
per pound of dry air outdoors to wi = 0.0047 indoors (70 F at 30% RH) by
reducing the air leaks until 0.075C(wi-wo) = 0.0116 pounds of water per
minute, ie C = 70 cfm. This will also reduce your heating bill.

Or, stop dehimidifying it. Put film over the window frames, or install
double glazing. In the winter, most indoor indoor moisture is lost due to
condensation, not infiltration.

Bull****.

What do you think, Nick?

"~^Johnny^~" wrote in message
In the winter, most indoor indoor moisture is lost due to
condensation, not infiltration.

-john

It ****es me off when they change the laws of physics and don't tell me.

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:57:11 -0800, ~^Johnny^~
wrote:

On 16 Nov 2004 12:35:32 -0500, wrote:

wrote:

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort. Is there any easy practical way to
humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it. Andersen says an average family of 4 evaporate 2 gallons
of water per day, ie 0.0116 pounds per minute... 70 F air weighs about
0.075 lb/ft^3, so you can raise the RH from wo = 0.0025 pounds of water
per pound of dry air outdoors to wi = 0.0047 indoors (70 F at 30% RH) by
reducing the air leaks until 0.075C(wi-wo) = 0.0116 pounds of water per
minute, ie C = 70 cfm. This will also reduce your heating bill.

Or, stop dehimidifying it. Put film over the window frames, or install
double glazing. In the winter, most indoor indoor moisture is lost due to
condensation, not infiltration.

Sure, bubble wrap the whole thing, better get the air scrubbers out and O2
generators running first.

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

I suggest we ignore the so-called no-it-all and if it makes one more
comfortable in ones home with the proper amount of humidification, and makes
one feel better physically, plus the other benefits it provides, go ahead
and do it! If Einstein does not believe in it that's his problem.

"gerry" wrote in message
...
[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:57:11 -0800, ~^Johnny^~
wrote:

On 16 Nov 2004 12:35:32 -0500, wrote:

wrote:

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort. Is there any easy practical way to
humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it. Andersen says an average family of 4 evaporate 2 gallons
of water per day, ie 0.0116 pounds per minute... 70 F air weighs about
0.075 lb/ft^3, so you can raise the RH from wo = 0.0025 pounds of water
per pound of dry air outdoors to wi = 0.0047 indoors (70 F at 30% RH) by
reducing the air leaks until 0.075C(wi-wo) = 0.0116 pounds of water per
minute, ie C = 70 cfm. This will also reduce your heating bill.

Or, stop dehimidifying it. Put film over the window frames, or install
double glazing. In the winter, most indoor indoor moisture is lost due
to
condensation, not infiltration.

Sure, bubble wrap the whole thing, better get the air scrubbers out and O2
generators running first.

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

=plonk!=

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:05:07 GMT, "Ace" wrote:

I suggest we ignore the so-called no-it-all and if it makes one more
comfortable in ones home with the proper amount of humidification, and makes
one feel better physically, plus the other benefits it provides, go ahead
and do it! If Einstein does not believe in it that's his problem.

"gerry" wrote in message
.. .
[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:57:11 -0800, ~^Johnny^~
wrote:

On 16 Nov 2004 12:35:32 -0500, wrote:

wrote:

We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort. Is there any easy practical way to
humidify this place?

Sure. Caulk it. Andersen says an average family of 4 evaporate 2 gallons
of water per day, ie 0.0116 pounds per minute... 70 F air weighs about
0.075 lb/ft^3, so you can raise the RH from wo = 0.0025 pounds of water
per pound of dry air outdoors to wi = 0.0047 indoors (70 F at 30% RH) by
reducing the air leaks until 0.075C(wi-wo) = 0.0116 pounds of water per
minute, ie C = 70 cfm. This will also reduce your heating bill.

Or, stop dehimidifying it. Put film over the window frames, or install
double glazing. In the winter, most indoor indoor moisture is lost due
to
condensation, not infiltration.

Sure, bubble wrap the whole thing, better get the air scrubbers out and O2
generators running first.

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots


--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:59:50 -0800 "~^Johnny^~"
used 51 lines of text to write in newsgroup: alt.home.repair

=plonk!=


LOL! I guess you disagree...



--
-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

Well, I have lived in northern Canada for most of my life, and back in
my childhood days, we simply put a container of water (re coffee can) on
the heater, and when we got central heat (humidifiers were not
normally installed), placed the can on the vent in the kitchen (most
used room), and if it was to dry in bedrooms did the same thing with
those vents.

No chance of a fire, burnt pot etc. all you had to do was refill the can.

As an adult working in the high arctic we did the same thing in the bunk
house. If you didn't, you woke up in the morning with split lips and a
mouth that tasted like the cat s**t in it....

If you want to spend a fortune sealing up your house, it will save you
in heating costs, but to be healthy your going to need an air to air
exchanger anyway, and your house will still dry out if you have serious
cold weather... Which is why even an energy efficient home will usually
have a humidification system of some kind...

If you live in a humid climate with out sub freezing temps, an energy
efficient house will require a dehumidifier...


Dave

wrote:
wrote:


We live in a rented townhouse. During the winter when the heat is
used, the place really gets dry. So much so that it dries out the
sinus and causes discomfort. Is there any easy practical way to
humidify this place?


Sure. Caulk it. Andersen says an average family of 4 evaporate 2 gallons
of water per day, ie 0.0116 pounds per minute... 70 F air weighs about
0.075 lb/ft^3, so you can raise the RH from wo = 0.0025 pounds of water
per pound of dry air outdoors to wi = 0.0047 indoors (70 F at 30% RH) by
reducing the air leaks until 0.075C(wi-wo) = 0.0116 pounds of water per
minute, ie C = 70 cfm. This will also reduce your heating bill.

Nick

"dave(remove wrote:

Well, I have lived in northern Canada for most of my life, and back in
my childhood days, we simply put a container of water (re coffee can) on
the heater, and when we got central heat (humidifiers were not
normally installed), placed the can on the vent in the kitchen

Back in Colonial days, a typical tiny US farmhouse was simply heated
during the day with 10 cords of wood per winter, before the invention
of woodstoves, insulation, and air sealing :-)

As an adult working in the high arctic we did the same thing in the bunk
house. If you didn't, you woke up in the morning with split lips and a
mouth that tasted like the cat s**t in it....

You might have fixed that with more air sealing.

If you want to spend a fortune sealing up your house, it will save you
in heating costs...

Air sealing materials are cheap. Labor can be cheap, if it's yours.

but to be healthy your going to need an air to air exchanger anyway,

Or a small exhaust fan.

and your house will still dry out if you have serious cold weather...

How serious can it be outdoors, to avoid condensation on R8 windows when
it's 70 F with 30% RH indoors? This isn't an argument against air sealing.
Condensation merely depends on indoor humidity, not the means to raise it.

Which is why even an energy efficient home will usually
have a humidification system of some kind...

A need for winter humidification is a symptom of excess air leakage.

If you live in a humid climate with out sub freezing temps, an energy
efficient house will require a dehumidifier...

Gary points out a 44 F dewpoint will also work without a dehumidifier,
eg 60 F outdoor air at 100e^-9621/((1/460+60)-1/(460+44)) = 56% RH.

Nick

"dave(remove).kozlowski" wrote in message news:9UXmd.254528$nl.34112@pd7tw3no...
snip
As an adult working in the high arctic we did the same thing in the bunk
house. If you didn't, you woke up in the morning with split lips and a
mouth that tasted like the cat s**t in it....

If you want to spend a fortune sealing up your house, it will save you
in heating costs, but to be healthy your going to need an air to air
exchanger anyway, and your house will still dry out if you have serious
cold weather... Which is why even an energy efficient home will usually
have a humidification system of some kind...
snip

Interestingly, in all the writings I've seen on hyper-efficient
houses, the consensus was that air-air exchangers are needed to remove
the moisture given off from humans, showers, laundry, cooking, and
such. Besides to make O2 available. Of course, condensing that
moisture saves huge heat loss.

Wouldn't know about such a house, but trying. I'm told people don't
"spend a fortune" sealing up houses, and do it regularly in
Scandinavia. Maybe leaves them some funds for aquavit? I'd call it
"investing."

More so each year, it seems advisable to seal it up, insulate to the
max, monitor r.h. and do whatever is best for human health, like
air-air. Expect I'll be going that route in a year or two.

John