Hello

First post ever here. Just found this group. Great place.

I have a house in Toronto. I have a water pipe for the outside garden hose
tap that runs through the concrete block wall between my family room and
the enclosed garage. It makes a 90 degree turn, goes through the concrete
block of the house, and into the garage where there is then another turn,
followed by a run, and another turn, and a run, followed by a turn to the
outside garden. In other works, it's sloped but not that much, and long
with turns.

There is an accessible shut-off inside the house, just before the pipe makes
the first 90 degree right turn in a copper elbow passing through the
concrete block and into the garage. The garage is not heated. Most years,
despite the fact I drain the line and keep the valve outside open, there
seems to be enough water in the first elbow to freeze and crack the copper.
This elbow is INSIDE the house, just as it turns to go through the concrete
block wall. It's a pain to repair, through this small access panel in the
back of a wall unit facing the garage.

I'd like to know if there is a better way to blow the water out of the line
than just turning off the shut-off, opening up the drain cap (to let the
air in) and turning on the tap in the garden.

Also, is there such thing as a SMALL, LOW WATTAGE SAFE heater I can plug in
that will raise the temperature in this small confined area just a few
degrees so that it's less likely to freeze at that first joint in the
house.

Thanks

Harry

Harry wrote:
Hello

First post ever here. Just found this group. Great place.

I have a house in Toronto. I have a water pipe for the outside garden
hose
tap that runs through the concrete block wall between my family room and
the enclosed garage. It makes a 90 degree turn, goes through the concrete
block of the house, and into the garage where there is then another turn,
followed by a run, and another turn, and a run, followed by a turn to the
outside garden. In other works, it's sloped but not that much, and long
with turns.

There is an accessible shut-off inside the house, just before the pipe
makes
the first 90 degree right turn in a copper elbow passing through the
concrete block and into the garage. The garage is not heated. Most
years,
despite the fact I drain the line and keep the valve outside open, there
seems to be enough water in the first elbow to freeze and crack the
copper.
This elbow is INSIDE the house, just as it turns to go through the
concrete
block wall. It's a pain to repair, through this small access panel in the
back of a wall unit facing the garage.

I'd like to know if there is a better way to blow the water out of the
line
than just turning off the shut-off, opening up the drain cap (to let the
air in) and turning on the tap in the garden.

Also, is there such thing as a SMALL, LOW WATTAGE SAFE heater I can plug
in
that will raise the temperature in this small confined area just a few
degrees so that it's less likely to freeze at that first joint in the
house.

Thanks

Harry

The answer is yes to both of your questions.

First about blowing the water out. Do you have access to compressed
air? If so call a landscaper who puts in sprinkler systems. They blow them
out every fall. They should have the right fittings to make it work easy.
You could just add an additional hydrant right after the shutoff and before
the 90º bend and just rig something to allow you to blow into that hydrant
with the outside hydrant open.

Most places (Canadian Tire for example) should have a heat tape just for
that kind of job. I would look to make sure it was temperature sensitive so
it only draws current when it is below 40º.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Harry wrote:

Hello



I'd like to know if there is a better way to blow the water out of the line
than just turning off the shut-off, opening up the drain cap (to let the
air in) and turning on the tap in the garden.


Now, to be clear: This drain cap is indoors, between your shutoff and
the garden tap?

I would be tempted to plumb a way to fill this length of tubing (exposed
to the cold) with RV antifreeze. Perhaps with a shutoff followed by a
standpipe, giving you enough height to put the opening taller than the
outdoor tap (so that gravity alone gets the job done).

"Harry" wrote in message
there
seems to be enough water in the first elbow to freeze and crack the
copper.
This elbow is INSIDE the house, just as it turns to go through the
concrete
block wall. It's a pain to repair, through this small access panel in the
back of a wall unit facing the garage.

A couple of fixes

Heat tape wrapped on the tubing. Cost money to operate though.

Replace the elbow with one that has a drain. You probably won't find them
in the corner hardware store, but I've seen and used them. At the elbow
there is a screwed in valve that you open to vent. Check with someone that
does heating work if you don't see them in the stores.

Replace the elbow with a Tee. Put a drain valve on the base leg of the Tee.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


"Harry" wrote in message
there
seems to be enough water in the first elbow to freeze and crack the
copper.
This elbow is INSIDE the house, just as it turns to go through the
concrete
block wall. It's a pain to repair, through this small access panel in
the back of a wall unit facing the garage.

A couple of fixes

Heat tape wrapped on the tubing. Cost money to operate though.

Replace the elbow with one that has a drain. You probably won't find them
in the corner hardware store, but I've seen and used them. At the elbow
there is a screwed in valve that you open to vent. Check with someone
that does heating work if you don't see them in the stores.

Replace the elbow with a Tee. Put a drain valve on the base leg of the
Tee.

I can't imagine a 1/4 inch copper elbow that has a shutoff in it. Am I
imagining this wrong. I hadn't heard of heat tape. Is it something I can
find at a large hardware chain?

Harry

Robert Barr wrote:

Harry wrote:

Hello



I'd like to know if there is a better way to blow the water out of the line
than just turning off the shut-off, opening up the drain cap (to let the
air in) and turning on the tap in the garden.


Now, to be clear: This drain cap is indoors, between your shutoff and
the garden tap?

I would be tempted to plumb a way to fill this length of tubing (exposed
to the cold) with RV antifreeze. Perhaps with a shutoff followed by a
standpipe, giving you enough height to put the opening taller than the
outdoor tap (so that gravity alone gets the job done).

Damn! I was going to suggest that. No point in using electricity when
$1.99 worth of RV antifreeze will do the job. I would put a T with 1
foot or so pipe with a cap just downstream of the shutoff valve.
After the op blows out the line, he would remove the cap, put a short
hose on the outside tap and raise it to about 2 inches less than the
height of the 1 foot pipe next to the valve, and poor antifreeze into
the pipe until some yells that antifreeze is comming out the other
end. Then cap the 1 foot pipe, close the outside valve and remove the
short hose.

besides what has been said, splice in a piece of pvc pipe somewhere near the
house exit but inside the house so the 'cold' doesnt just travel down the
pipe.

randy

"Harry" wrote in message
...
Hello

First post ever here. Just found this group. Great place.

I have a house in Toronto. I have a water pipe for the outside garden
hose
tap that runs through the concrete block wall between my family room and
the enclosed garage. It makes a 90 degree turn, goes through the concrete
block of the house, and into the garage where there is then another turn,
followed by a run, and another turn, and a run, followed by a turn to the
outside garden. In other works, it's sloped but not that much, and long
with turns.

There is an accessible shut-off inside the house, just before the pipe
makes
the first 90 degree right turn in a copper elbow passing through the
concrete block and into the garage. The garage is not heated. Most
years,
despite the fact I drain the line and keep the valve outside open, there
seems to be enough water in the first elbow to freeze and crack the
copper.
This elbow is INSIDE the house, just as it turns to go through the
concrete
block wall. It's a pain to repair, through this small access panel in the
back of a wall unit facing the garage.

I'd like to know if there is a better way to blow the water out of the
line
than just turning off the shut-off, opening up the drain cap (to let the
air in) and turning on the tap in the garden.

Also, is there such thing as a SMALL, LOW WATTAGE SAFE heater I can plug
in
that will raise the temperature in this small confined area just a few
degrees so that it's less likely to freeze at that first joint in the
house.

Thanks

Harry

Instead of letting the water just drain out through the outside
faucet, I would connect a length of garder hose and run it down hill,
assuming that's possible of course. Put a shut off on the end of the
hose, the valve type that opens full in a quarter turn would be best.
Run the water till the hose is full, shut off the valve on the end of
the hose. Turn off the shutoff valve inside the house and open the
valve drain to let air in. Then open the valve on the hose end all
the way. The siphoning action should pull just about all the water
out of the pipe. The only limiting factor here is how much air can
get in quickly. To increase that, you could insert a T fitting with a
cap by the inside shut off valve.

Of course another possibility would be to replace that line with one
in another location with a freeze proof sill cock that you could leave
on all winter.









"xrongor" wrote in message ...
besides what has been said, splice in a piece of pvc pipe somewhere near the
house exit but inside the house so the 'cold' doesnt just travel down the
pipe.

randy

"Harry" wrote in message
...
Hello

First post ever here. Just found this group. Great place.

I have a house in Toronto. I have a water pipe for the outside garden
hose
tap that runs through the concrete block wall between my family room and
the enclosed garage. It makes a 90 degree turn, goes through the concrete
block of the house, and into the garage where there is then another turn,
followed by a run, and another turn, and a run, followed by a turn to the
outside garden. In other works, it's sloped but not that much, and long
with turns.

There is an accessible shut-off inside the house, just before the pipe
makes
the first 90 degree right turn in a copper elbow passing through the
concrete block and into the garage. The garage is not heated. Most
years,
despite the fact I drain the line and keep the valve outside open, there
seems to be enough water in the first elbow to freeze and crack the
copper.
This elbow is INSIDE the house, just as it turns to go through the
concrete
block wall. It's a pain to repair, through this small access panel in the
back of a wall unit facing the garage.

I'd like to know if there is a better way to blow the water out of the
line
than just turning off the shut-off, opening up the drain cap (to let the
air in) and turning on the tap in the garden.

Also, is there such thing as a SMALL, LOW WATTAGE SAFE heater I can plug
in
that will raise the temperature in this small confined area just a few
degrees so that it's less likely to freeze at that first joint in the
house.

Thanks

Harry