(I don't think I have a fuel problem, but when I'm reading about my car,
curiosity rears its head and I have questions.)

How come so many cars have a nipple on the fuel rail with which to test
fuel pressure, but 2005 3.3L Toyotas etc. make one insert a T-connector,
iiuc underneath the rear seat or just above the gas tank. And IIUC,
then you have to remove the T-connector when you're done. Much harder
to get to, and both chores are so much more effort than using a nipple
on the fuel rail.

Toyota is not usually inconvenient, afaict, so what is going on here?



Oh, and why does the shop manual not include pictures? It only has
outline sketches (not even detailed sketches)? I've had Pontiacs and
Chryslers and I bought the shop manual for my brother's Ford, iow all of
the Big Three, and every one had much more informative manuals than
either of my Toyotas'.

And there is constant reference to toyota-specific test equipment etc.

Basically, I can't tell a thing from the shop manual and have to rely on
youtube videos and on webpages. Whereas with American cars, the shop
manual was all I needed to fix them.


Is it that Toyota manuals are designed only for the mechanic and not for
anyone without a lot of experience?

Are all Japanese shop manuals like Toyota's?

Is this an example of foreigners with an elitist social hierarchy, or at
least a strict one, unlike America where there is a belief that anyone
can learn to do anything? --- I've exaggerated the American part
some, but I do seriously intend the general nature of the question.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 16:37:37 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest...


(I don't think I have a fuel problem, but when I'm reading about my car,
curiosity rears its head and I have questions.)

How come so many cars have a nipple on the fuel rail with which to test
fuel pressure, but 2005 3.3L Toyotas etc. make one insert a T-connector,
iiuc underneath the rear seat or just above the gas tank. And IIUC,
then you have to remove the T-connector when you're done. Much harder
to get to, and both chores are so much more effort than using a nipple
on the fuel rail.

Toyota is not usually inconvenient, afaict, so what is going on here?



Oh, and why does the shop manual not include pictures? It only has
outline sketches (not even detailed sketches)? I've had Pontiacs and
Chryslers and I bought the shop manual for my brother's Ford, iow all of
the Big Three, and every one had much more informative manuals than
either of my Toyotas'.

And there is constant reference to toyota-specific test equipment etc.

Basically, I can't tell a thing from the shop manual and have to rely on
youtube videos and on webpages. Whereas with American cars, the shop
manual was all I needed to fix them.


Is it that Toyota manuals are designed only for the mechanic and not for
anyone without a lot of experience?

Are all Japanese shop manuals like Toyota's?

Is this an example of foreigners with an elitist social hierarchy, or at
least a strict one, unlike America where there is a belief that anyone
can learn to do anything? --- I've exaggerated the American part
some, but I do seriously intend the general nature of the question.

They saw you coming! You like that answer?

--
Tekkie

"micky" wrote in message
...
(I don't think I have a fuel problem, but when I'm reading about my car,
curiosity rears its head and I have questions.)

How come so many cars have a nipple on the fuel rail with which to test
fuel pressure, but 2005 3.3L Toyotas etc. make one insert a T-connector,
iiuc underneath the rear seat or just above the gas tank. And IIUC,
then you have to remove the T-connector when you're done. Much harder
to get to, and both chores are so much more effort than using a nipple
on the fuel rail.

Toyota is not usually inconvenient, afaict, so what is going on here?



Oh, and why does the shop manual not include pictures? It only has
outline sketches (not even detailed sketches)? I've had Pontiacs and
Chryslers and I bought the shop manual for my brother's Ford, iow all of
the Big Three, and every one had much more informative manuals than
either of my Toyotas'.

And there is constant reference to toyota-specific test equipment etc.

Basically, I can't tell a thing from the shop manual and have to rely on
youtube videos and on webpages. Whereas with American cars, the shop
manual was all I needed to fix them.


Is it that Toyota manuals are designed only for the mechanic and not for
anyone without a lot of experience?

Are all Japanese shop manuals like Toyota's?

Is this an example of foreigners with an elitist social hierarchy,
or at least a strict one, unlike America where there is a belief
that anyone can learn to do anything?

Nope, the Japs arent really like that.

I've exaggerated the American part some, but I do
seriously intend the general nature of the question.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 16:37:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

(I don't think I have a fuel problem, but when I'm reading about my car,
curiosity rears its head and I have questions.)

How come so many cars have a nipple on the fuel rail with which to test
fuel pressure, but 2005 3.3L Toyotas etc. make one insert a T-connector,
iiuc underneath the rear seat or just above the gas tank. And IIUC,
then you have to remove the T-connector when you're done. Much harder
to get to, and both chores are so much more effort than using a nipple
on the fuel rail.

Toyota is not usually inconvenient, afaict, so what is going on here?



Oh, and why does the shop manual not include pictures? It only has
outline sketches (not even detailed sketches)? I've had Pontiacs and
Chryslers and I bought the shop manual for my brother's Ford, iow all of
the Big Three, and every one had much more informative manuals than
either of my Toyotas'.

And there is constant reference to toyota-specific test equipment etc.

Basically, I can't tell a thing from the shop manual and have to rely on
youtube videos and on webpages. Whereas with American cars, the shop
manual was all I needed to fix them.


Is it that Toyota manuals are designed only for the mechanic and not for
anyone without a lot of experience?

Are all Japanese shop manuals like Toyota's?

Is this an example of foreigners with an elitist social hierarchy, or at
least a strict one, unlike America where there is a belief that anyone
can learn to do anything? --- I've exaggerated the American part
some, but I do seriously intend the general nature of the question.
The "factory Service Manual" is for "factory trained technicians". It
is also usefull for "trained technicians" and is not designed as a
"DIY" manual. It assumes a pretty high level of knowlege and ability.
The Ford factory manuals are no better - the manual for my 1996 Ranger
is a bound manual"supplement" an inch and a half thick plus 2 binders
totalling another 7 inches. I also have a set of manuals on disc that
consists of SEVEN double layer DVDs!!!!!! to cover the complete line
of 1996 Fords.
Neither one will tell you how to open the hood if the cable breaks - -
- -

On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 07:38:40 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Nope

ROTFLOL

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 03 Apr 2021 17:42:24 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 16:37:37 -0400, micky
wrote:

(I don't think I have a fuel problem, but when I'm reading about my car,
curiosity rears its head and I have questions.)

How come so many cars have a nipple on the fuel rail with which to test
fuel pressure, but 2005 3.3L Toyotas etc. make one insert a T-connector,
iiuc underneath the rear seat or just above the gas tank. And IIUC,
then you have to remove the T-connector when you're done. Much harder
to get to, and both chores are so much more effort than using a nipple
on the fuel rail.

Toyota is not usually inconvenient, afaict, so what is going on here?



Oh, and why does the shop manual not include pictures? It only has
outline sketches (not even detailed sketches)? I've had Pontiacs and
Chryslers and I bought the shop manual for my brother's Ford, iow all of
the Big Three, and every one had much more informative manuals than
either of my Toyotas'.

And there is constant reference to toyota-specific test equipment etc.

Basically, I can't tell a thing from the shop manual and have to rely on
youtube videos and on webpages. Whereas with American cars, the shop
manual was all I needed to fix them.


Is it that Toyota manuals are designed only for the mechanic and not for
anyone without a lot of experience?

Are all Japanese shop manuals like Toyota's?

Is this an example of foreigners with an elitist social hierarchy, or at
least a strict one, unlike America where there is a belief that anyone
can learn to do anything? --- I've exaggerated the American part
some, but I do seriously intend the general nature of the question.

The "factory Service Manual" is for "factory trained technicians". It
is also usefull for "trained technicians" and is not designed as a

I accept all that but I still have the question and comment below.

"DIY" manual. It assumes a pretty high level of knowlege and ability.
The Ford factory manuals are no better - the manual for my 1996 Ranger
is a bound manual"supplement" an inch and a half thick plus 2 binders
totalling another 7 inches. I also have a set of manuals on disc that
consists of SEVEN double layer DVDs!!!!!! to cover the complete line
of 1996 Fords.
Neither one will tell you how to open the hood if the cable breaks - -
- -

So even American cars have shop manuals that I would not find helpful
now? Because it used to be for Ford, GM, and Chrysler they were
incredibly helpful.

And why is there no nipple on the Toyota fuel rail? Wouldn't every
mechanic find that a good thing?

micky wrote:
(I don't think I have a fuel problem, but when I'm reading about my car,
curiosity rears its head and I have questions.)

How come so many cars have a nipple on the fuel rail with which to test
fuel pressure, but 2005 3.3L Toyotas etc. make one insert a T-connector,
iiuc underneath the rear seat or just above the gas tank. And IIUC,
then you have to remove the T-connector when you're done. Much harder
to get to, and both chores are so much more effort than using a nipple
on the fuel rail.

Toyota is not usually inconvenient, afaict, so what is going on here?



Oh, and why does the shop manual not include pictures? It only has
outline sketches (not even detailed sketches)? I've had Pontiacs and
Chryslers and I bought the shop manual for my brother's Ford, iow all of
the Big Three, and every one had much more informative manuals than
either of my Toyotas'.

And there is constant reference to toyota-specific test equipment etc.

Basically, I can't tell a thing from the shop manual and have to rely on
youtube videos and on webpages. Whereas with American cars, the shop
manual was all I needed to fix them.


Is it that Toyota manuals are designed only for the mechanic and not for
anyone without a lot of experience?

Are all Japanese shop manuals like Toyota's?

Is this an example of foreigners with an elitist social hierarchy, or at
least a strict one, unlike America where there is a belief that anyone
can learn to do anything? --- I've exaggerated the American part
some, but I do seriously intend the general nature of the question.

Lot's of vehicles out there don't have a test port, not just Toyota.
It's why shops buy master fuel pressure test kits that include a ton of
adapters and you still don't have all of them.

As for the information, that also depends on the manufacturer, some give
a write up and little visual info while others show just a cartoon like
picture with a simple guide.

Special tools are a way of life on vehicles. Some can be shop made
others you spend big money on to use them once. ALL vehicles are built
for a mechanic that has experience these days, and the companies want to
keep it even closer, if they could require that only dealers worked on
them they would, and some are that way now (Tesla and Apple both being
examples of those restrictions) They claim everything is intellectual
property and you "buying the car" only means you are buying the use of
the vehicle, not ownership or the ability to repair them. Just like
software companies.

--
Steve W.

On 4/3/2021 10:11 PM, Steve W. wrote:
micky wrote:
(I don't think I have a fuel problem, but when I'm reading about my car,
curiosity rears its head and I have questions.)
How come so many cars have a nipple on the fuel rail with which to test
fuel pressure, but 2005 3.3L Toyotas etc. make one insert a T-connector,
iiuc underneath the rear seat or just above the gas tank.Â* And IIUC,
then you have to remove the T-connector when you're done.Â* Much harder
to get to, and both chores are so much more effort than using a nipple
on the fuel rail.
Toyota is not usually inconvenient, afaict, so what is going on here?


Oh, and why does the shop manual not include pictures?Â* It only has
outline sketches (not even detailed sketches)? I've had Pontiacs and
Chryslers and I bought the shop manual for my brother's Ford, iow all of
the Big Three, and every one had much more informative manuals than
either of my Toyotas'.
And there is constant reference to toyota-specific test equipment etc.
Basically, I can't tell a thing from the shop manual and have to rely on
youtube videos and on webpages. Whereas with American cars, the shop
manual was all I needed to fix them.

Is it that Toyota manuals are designed only for the mechanic and not for
anyone without a lot of experience?
Are all Japanese shop manuals like Toyota's?
Is this an example of foreigners with an elitist social hierarchy, or at
least a strict one, unlike America where there is a belief that anyone
can learn to do anything?Â*Â* ---Â* I've exaggerated the American part
some, but I do seriously intend the general nature of the question.

Lot's of vehicles out there don't have a test port, not just Toyota.
It's why shops buy master fuel pressure test kits that include a ton of
adapters and you still don't have all of them.

As for the information, that also depends on the manufacturer, some give
a write up and little visual info while others show just a cartoon like
picture with a simple guide.

Special tools are a way of life on vehicles. Some can be shop made
others you spend big money on to use them once. ALL vehicles are built
for a mechanic that has experience these days, and the companies want to
keep it even closer, if they could require that only dealers worked on
them they would, and some are that way now (Tesla and Apple both being
examples of those restrictions) They claim everything is intellectual
property and you "buying the car" only means you are buying the use of
the vehicle, not ownership or the ability to repair them. Just like
software companies.


John Deere fall into the control camp.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 21:53:01 -0400, micky
wrote:

snip

The "factory Service Manual" is for "factory trained technicians". It
is also usefull for "trained technicians" and is not designed as a

I accept all that but I still have the question and comment below.

"DIY" manual. It assumes a pretty high level of knowlege and ability.
The Ford factory manuals are no better - the manual for my 1996 Ranger
is a bound manual"supplement" an inch and a half thick plus 2 binders
totalling another 7 inches. I also have a set of manuals on disc that
consists of SEVEN double layer DVDs!!!!!! to cover the complete line
of 1996 Fords.
Neither one will tell you how to open the hood if the cable breaks - -
- -

So even American cars have shop manuals that I would not find helpful
now?

Yup. They are pretty technical and detailed but assume a pretty high
level of knowlege.

Because it used to be for Ford, GM, and Chrysler they were
incredibly helpful.
They still are for a lot of things if you know how to read them - and
each manufacturer uses a different dialect of pig-latin

And why is there no nipple on the Toyota fuel rail? Wouldn't every
mechanic find that a good thing?
Yes most mechanics would finf it handy but the dealers have the
special factory service tools. I have a "universal" fuel pressure
tester kit that has fittings to fit just about anything EXCEPT the
shrader valve - - -

The scrader valve was too handy for the uneducated to futz with,
causing high pressure fuel discharge and even leaks I guess.

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 22:11:35 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

micky wrote:
(I don't think I have a fuel problem, but when I'm reading about my car,
curiosity rears its head and I have questions.)

How come so many cars have a nipple on the fuel rail with which to test
fuel pressure, but 2005 3.3L Toyotas etc. make one insert a T-connector,
iiuc underneath the rear seat or just above the gas tank. And IIUC,
then you have to remove the T-connector when you're done. Much harder
to get to, and both chores are so much more effort than using a nipple
on the fuel rail.

Toyota is not usually inconvenient, afaict, so what is going on here?



Oh, and why does the shop manual not include pictures? It only has
outline sketches (not even detailed sketches)? I've had Pontiacs and
Chryslers and I bought the shop manual for my brother's Ford, iow all of
the Big Three, and every one had much more informative manuals than
either of my Toyotas'.

And there is constant reference to toyota-specific test equipment etc.

Basically, I can't tell a thing from the shop manual and have to rely on
youtube videos and on webpages. Whereas with American cars, the shop
manual was all I needed to fix them.


Is it that Toyota manuals are designed only for the mechanic and not for
anyone without a lot of experience?

Are all Japanese shop manuals like Toyota's?

Is this an example of foreigners with an elitist social hierarchy, or at
least a strict one, unlike America where there is a belief that anyone
can learn to do anything? --- I've exaggerated the American part
some, but I do seriously intend the general nature of the question.

Lot's of vehicles out there don't have a test port, not just Toyota.
It's why shops buy master fuel pressure test kits that include a ton of
adapters and you still don't have all of them.

As for the information, that also depends on the manufacturer, some give
a write up and little visual info while others show just a cartoon like
picture with a simple guide.

Special tools are a way of life on vehicles. Some can be shop made
others you spend big money on to use them once. ALL vehicles are built
for a mechanic that has experience these days, and the companies want to
keep it even closer, if they could require that only dealers worked on
them they would, and some are that way now (Tesla and Apple both being
examples of those restrictions) They claim everything is intellectual
property and you "buying the car" only means you are buying the use of
the vehicle, not ownership or the ability to repair them. Just like
software companies.
Definitely need "right to repair" legislation

On Sun, 04 Apr 2021 00:57:19 -0400, Clare Snyder posted for all of us to
digest...


On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 22:11:35 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

micky wrote:
(I don't think I have a fuel problem, but when I'm reading about my car,
curiosity rears its head and I have questions.)

How come so many cars have a nipple on the fuel rail with which to test
fuel pressure, but 2005 3.3L Toyotas etc. make one insert a T-connector,
iiuc underneath the rear seat or just above the gas tank. And IIUC,
then you have to remove the T-connector when you're done. Much harder
to get to, and both chores are so much more effort than using a nipple
on the fuel rail.

Toyota is not usually inconvenient, afaict, so what is going on here?



Oh, and why does the shop manual not include pictures? It only has
outline sketches (not even detailed sketches)? I've had Pontiacs and
Chryslers and I bought the shop manual for my brother's Ford, iow all of
the Big Three, and every one had much more informative manuals than
either of my Toyotas'.

And there is constant reference to toyota-specific test equipment etc.

Basically, I can't tell a thing from the shop manual and have to rely on
youtube videos and on webpages. Whereas with American cars, the shop
manual was all I needed to fix them.


Is it that Toyota manuals are designed only for the mechanic and not for
anyone without a lot of experience?

Are all Japanese shop manuals like Toyota's?

Is this an example of foreigners with an elitist social hierarchy, or at
least a strict one, unlike America where there is a belief that anyone
can learn to do anything? --- I've exaggerated the American part
some, but I do seriously intend the general nature of the question.

Lot's of vehicles out there don't have a test port, not just Toyota.
It's why shops buy master fuel pressure test kits that include a ton of
adapters and you still don't have all of them.

As for the information, that also depends on the manufacturer, some give
a write up and little visual info while others show just a cartoon like
picture with a simple guide.

Special tools are a way of life on vehicles. Some can be shop made
others you spend big money on to use them once. ALL vehicles are built
for a mechanic that has experience these days, and the companies want to
keep it even closer, if they could require that only dealers worked on
them they would, and some are that way now (Tesla and Apple both being
examples of those restrictions) They claim everything is intellectual
property and you "buying the car" only means you are buying the use of
the vehicle, not ownership or the ability to repair them. Just like
software companies.
Definitely need "right to repair" legislation

Amen to that! The after market scanners and information services would
definitely benefit and help the independent shops.

--
Tekkie

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 04 Apr 2021 00:55:46 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 21:53:01 -0400, micky
wrote:

snip

The "factory Service Manual" is for "factory trained technicians". It
is also usefull for "trained technicians" and is not designed as a

I accept all that but I still have the question and comment below.

"DIY" manual. It assumes a pretty high level of knowlege and ability.
The Ford factory manuals are no better - the manual for my 1996 Ranger
is a bound manual"supplement" an inch and a half thick plus 2 binders
totalling another 7 inches. I also have a set of manuals on disc that
consists of SEVEN double layer DVDs!!!!!! to cover the complete line
of 1996 Fords.
Neither one will tell you how to open the hood if the cable breaks - -
- -

So even American cars have shop manuals that I would not find helpful
now?

Yup. They are pretty technical and detailed but assume a pretty high
level of knowlege.

Because it used to be for Ford, GM, and Chrysler they were
incredibly helpful.
They still are for a lot of things if you know how to read them - and
each manufacturer uses a different dialect of pig-latin

And why is there no nipple on the Toyota fuel rail? Wouldn't every
mechanic find that a good thing?
Yes most mechanics would finf it handy but the dealers have the
special factory service tools. I have a "universal" fuel pressure
tester kit that has fittings to fit just about anything EXCEPT the
shrader valve - - -

The scrader valve was too handy for the uneducated to futz with,
causing high pressure fuel discharge and even leaks I guess.

Apparently Toyota started to get rid of it about 2003, so my 2005 hasn't
got one but my 2000 probalby did. Alas, I had no fuel problems with the
2000.