On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 3:44:40 PM UTC-4, marika wrote:
On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 1:23:05 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 06:00:37 -0400, micky
wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:08:59 -0400,
wrote:
ed and out of range for the rest of us.

The problem with your rant is if you are vaccinated you have all the
protection you will get. It still does not stop you from infecting
others

You keep saying that but it hasn't been determined yet. The odds are
high that it does.

Read this and maybe it will help you see why your objection is way
overstated:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...ine-protection

"When a person is infected €“ or inoculated with a vaccine €“ the immune
system gears up to produce antibodies that specifically target the
virus. Over time, those antibodies naturally wane. But the immune system
still holds a memory of the virus, and if it ever shows up again, cells
spring into action and start to gear up a new batch of antibodies.
However, that process can take three to five days.

In the meantime, a virus can potentially start to replicate in the body.

If the virus is replicating in a vaccinated person who will not die,
that is the perfect breeding ground for a variant that is immune to
the vaccine.
One of the strongest responses to killing off a virus is if all the
hosts die.
That is why we kill whole herds of livestock when a few get sick.
That is not an acceptable answer with humans but it is the solution
that has worked many times.
If the vaccine is not killing the virus, it is promoting it's
mutation.
I hope the acceptable solution is coming soon

Ive read the online appointment system is a hit or miss nightmare, almost like trying to get the new Xbox at Christmas and its always sold out within 30 seconds.

the rest of us losers have to hover endlessly online for appointment availability? Makes no sense.

mk5000

I have been going around like crazy, trying to find a reason or someone who can help. If this continues I may lose my work, with Egypt's crossing almost always closed, I am trapped like a rabbit in a cage.--Abu Abdallah

It's not that bad. I've been contacted 7 times now to get vaccinated in NJ, I could
have gotten it 7 times. But I did sign up with the state and about 6 other avenues
to register.

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 5:25:56 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 02:30:58 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 21:20:26 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:15:40 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:38:58 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:08:59 -0400, wrote:

I already posted this but so far they have already found 89 post
vaccination infections in Minnesota and those are just the ones they
know about.

It's not clear to me what you're getting at. NPR says 130 million doses
have been administered, with 46 million people being fully vaccinated.. With
that in mind, you seem to think it's significant that 89 people still got
infected after being vaccinated.

The very first sentence of your linked article says "Health officials
report dozens of fully-vaccinated people have contracted COVID-19 in
Minnesota, a development that wasnt unexpected." What part of "a
development that wasn't unexpected" is confusing you? Did someone tell you
that any of the vaccines would be 100% effective? No, I don't think they
did.

Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them died as a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is 89? Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why are masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.


To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg since we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

True. There could actually be 90 or more. Still, how does that number
compare to the millions who were able to avoid infection? And what about
the rest of the questions I asked above? You avoided all of them.

I'm still trying to understand how you just happened to come to the
realization that none of the vaccines is 100% effective when their efficacy
percentages were, and still are, in the news almost nonstop?

It does point out why this vaccine is far from the panacea we were
hoping for and why we will still be told to wear masks well into 2022
or even 23.

I don't know which planet you live on. Far from the panacea we were hoping
for? You might need to flip the channel periodically or maybe read more..
Who are the people who were hoping for a panacea?

The vaccine may help you from getting really sick, we are still
waiting to see how well that works but it is clear it doesn't keep you
from being infected or infecting others.

Again, no one has ever, ever, said that any of the vaccines are 100%
effective. Perhaps you've heard that but didn't understand what it means.

We also don't know how long it will be until a variant overwhelms the
current vaccines.

You mean the situation is still evolving? Be still, my heart! You're
showing that you're really slow to pick up on what the experts have been
saying for months. Try a different channel.

Yes you Democrats keep spinning up the company line but if people are
standing in line to vote in 2022 wearing masks they will be asking
"Didn't they say they were going to fix this ****"?
Considering the sweeping anti-voter law just passed in Georgia, how could
the folks there NOT be standing in longer lines at the next election?

That's your Republicans at work. Can't win an election fair and square?
Just make it so fewer people can vote, especially when the disenfranchised
are likely to vote for the other side.

Fretwell tells us that Trump is gone, no longer a factor. What just happened in GA
is another example of us still living with what Trump has wrought and what he is
still promoting. Even the Republicans in GA that stood up to Trump helped put
this stupid law into place. They did it because they still fear Trump and the Trumpets,
so they hoped to appease them. Making it illegal to hand out water or a snack to
voters in line? I mean who comes up with this? I saw it and immediately knew
that the Republicans were going to get another black eye. And for what exactly?
What was the alleged harm here? And even if you had some beef with it, rational
people would see that it's really just a non-issue, that it will just make Republicans
look evil. Which of course it just did. Glad I'm not one anymore.

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 8:18:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 13:00:42 -0700 (PDT), marika
wrote:

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 1:31:07 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 21:20:26 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:15:40 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:38:58 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:08:59 -0400, wrote:

I already posted this but so far they have already found 89 post
vaccination infections in Minnesota and those are just the ones they
know about.

It's not clear to me what you're getting at. NPR says 130 million doses
have been administered, with 46 million people being fully vaccinated. With
that in mind, you seem to think it's significant that 89 people still got
infected after being vaccinated.

The very first sentence of your linked article says "Health officials
report dozens of fully-vaccinated people have contracted COVID-19 in
Minnesota, a development that wasnt unexpected." What part of "a
development that wasn't unexpected" is confusing you? Did someone tell you
that any of the vaccines would be 100% effective? No, I don't think they
did.

Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them died as a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is 89? Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why are masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.


To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg since we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

True. There could actually be 90 or more. Still, how does that number
compare to the millions who were able to avoid infection? And what about
the rest of the questions I asked above? You avoided all of them.

I'm still trying to understand how you just happened to come to the
realization that none of the vaccines is 100% effective when their efficacy
percentages were, and still are, in the news almost nonstop?

It does point out why this vaccine is far from the panacea we were
hoping for and why we will still be told to wear masks well into 2022
or even 23.

I don't know which planet you live on. Far from the panacea we were hoping
for? You might need to flip the channel periodically or maybe read more.
Who are the people who were hoping for a panacea?

The vaccine may help you from getting really sick, we are still
waiting to see how well that works but it is clear it doesn't keep you
from being infected or infecting others.

Again, no one has ever, ever, said that any of the vaccines are 100%
effective. Perhaps you've heard that but didn't understand what it means.

We also don't know how long it will be until a variant overwhelms the
current vaccines.

You mean the situation is still evolving? Be still, my heart! You're
showing that you're really slow to pick up on what the experts have been
saying for months. Try a different channel.
Yes you Democrats keep spinning up the company line but if people are
standing in line to vote in 2022 wearing masks they will be asking
"Didn't they say they were going to fix this ****"?

So Im not sure whats going on in some states with vaccines, but here on the local news they do at least one story every day about the appointment-free vaccine clinics popping up in various neighborhoods. The clinics are large arenas, not tiny little kiosks.

And then they tell us how many thousands upon thousands of residents were vaccinated and all accomplished by community volunteers... very feel-good stories.

I believe that where there are efforts like this, masks will be history. It is a good democrat company line

The problem is getting vaccinated does not allow you to throw away
your mask ...

Yet. We're only at about 20 percent fully vaccinated. And again, as I've explained
before, if health authorities did say if you're vaccinated, then you don't have to wear
a mask, what would happen? Do you expect Walmart to ask for vaccine ID as you
enter? If they did, why you'd complain about that. And if they didn't then every
anti-mask jackass would just walk right in, without being vaccinated.

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 10:39:02 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:29:07 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:41:14 -0700 (PDT), marika
wrote:

On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 1:16:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:38:58 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:08:59 -0400, wrote:

I already posted this but so far they have already found 89 post
vaccination infections in Minnesota and those are just the ones they
know about.

It's not clear to me what you're getting at. NPR says 130 million doses
have been administered, with 46 million people being fully vaccinated.
With
that in mind, you seem to think it's significant that 89 people still
got
infected after being vaccinated.

The very first sentence of your linked article says "Health officials
report dozens of fully-vaccinated people have contracted COVID-19 in
Minnesota, a development that wasnt unexpected." What part of "a
development that wasn't unexpected" is confusing you? Did someone tell
you
that any of the vaccines would be 100% effective? No, I don't think
they
did.

Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them died as
a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is 89? Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why are
masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.

To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg since we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

Do not know

however, when you get a vaccine you are de facto infected because they
introduce a small bit of the virus into the system which causes an immune
reaction

perhaps you are referring to side effects rather than infection

By contrast, my friend who is 64 and lives in jersey got hers quite a
while ago
no side effects

This is not that kind of vaccine. There is no corona virus in the
vaccine we are getting.

The infections are really new corona infections and predicted
in 5% or so who are vaccinated depending on which one you
get. Even assuming that is a pessimistic number and it is really
only 0.5% you are still talking about over a million getting
infected in spite of the vaccine..

But given that the vaccine eliminates severe disease and
turns the symptoms into those of a bad cold, no big deal.
No big deal until they infect someone who is not prepared to deal with
the mutation they have been cooking up.

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 6:59:23 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
We also don't know how long it will be until a variant overwhelms the
current vaccines.
You mean the situation is still evolving? Be still, my heart! You're
showing that you're really slow to pick up on what the experts have
been
saying for months. Try a different channel.
Yes you Democrats keep spinning up the company line but if people are
standing in line to vote in 2022 wearing masks they will be asking
"Didn't they say they were going to fix this ****"?
So Im not sure whats going on in some states with vaccines, but
here on the local news they do at least one story every day about the
appointment-free vaccine clinics popping up in various
neighborhoods. The clinics are large arenas, not tiny little kiosks.

And then they tell us how many thousands upon thousands of residents
were vaccinated and all accomplished by community volunteers... very
feel-good stories.

I believe that where there are efforts like this, masks will be
history. It is a good democrat company line

The problem is getting vaccinated does not allow you to throw away
your mask ... at least that is the guess of the week.


The mask-nazis said we only have to wear the masks a few weeks until we
flatten the curve, inject some experimental gene therapy, and achieve
herd immunity...or move to a red state.

Who's doing gene therapy?

Must be the same non-existent authorities that said we only had to wear masks
for a few weeks.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 10:39:02 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:29:07 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:41:14 -0700 (PDT), marika
wrote:

On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 1:16:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:38:58 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:08:59 -0400, wrote:

I already posted this but so far they have already found 89 post
vaccination infections in Minnesota and those are just the ones they
know about.

It's not clear to me what you're getting at. NPR says 130 million doses
have been administered, with 46 million people being fully vaccinated.
With
that in mind, you seem to think it's significant that 89 people still
got
infected after being vaccinated.

The very first sentence of your linked article says "Health officials
report dozens of fully-vaccinated people have contracted COVID-19 in
Minnesota, a development that wasnt unexpected." What part of "a
development that wasn't unexpected" is confusing you? Did someone tell
you
that any of the vaccines would be 100% effective? No, I don't think
they
did.

Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them died as
a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is 89? Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why are
masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.

To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg since we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

Do not know

however, when you get a vaccine you are de facto infected because they
introduce a small bit of the virus into the system which causes an immune
reaction

perhaps you are referring to side effects rather than infection

By contrast, my friend who is 64 and lives in jersey got hers quite a
while ago
no side effects

This is not that kind of vaccine. There is no corona virus in the
vaccine we are getting.

The infections are really new corona infections and predicted
in 5% or so who are vaccinated depending on which one you
get. Even assuming that is a pessimistic number and it is really
only 0.5% you are still talking about over a million getting
infected in spite of the vaccine..

But given that the vaccine eliminates severe disease and
turns the symptoms into those of a bad cold, no big deal.
No big deal until they infect someone who is not prepared to deal with
the mutation they have been cooking up.

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask. Fauci says we will still be wearing masks after everyone is
vaccinated "into 2022".
OTOH we are not hearing from Fauci as much as we used to., Biden may
have muzzled him.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 05:14:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

The problem with your rant is if you are vaccinated you have all the
protection you will get. It still does not stop you from infecting
others so maybe they need to keep you away.

There you go again, spreading more BS, even though it's been explained
to you here many times now that this is not true.

That is not my bull****.
Vaccinated people can still spread the virus.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsl...read-the-virus
"Patients who have been vaccinated can certainly still contract
SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, and pass it on to others.
There are two reasons for that, says Matthew Woodruff, an immunologist
at Emory University."
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/12...order-vaccine/
"Vaccinated people could still carry and spread the virus and should
continue to wear masks, practice frequent hand-washing and socially
distance until a majority of the population is inoculated, Krouse
said."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...ne/ar-BB1cMHJe
Dr. Fauci Said You Can Still Carry the Virus After Getting Vaccinated

"I do want to ask you about this new study overseas, this study of
British healthcare workers," said Today anchor Craig Melvin. "And it
found that folks with antibodies could still carry and spread the
virus. How worried should we be about our friends and family members
who've already had COVID-19?"
Fauci, for his part, has long said we'd still need to abide by public
health measures even after getting vaccinated, just in case.
"Obviously, with a 90-plus percent effective vaccine, you could feel
much more confident" that you won't get COVID-19, Fauci told CNN. "But
I would recommend to people to not abandon all public health measures
just because you have been vaccinated€¦.even though, for the general
population, it might be 90 to 95% effective," said Fauci, "you don't
necessarily know, for you, how effective it is."

"Jim Joyce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 18:31:35 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/28/2021 5:39 PM, %% wrote:


"Jim Joyce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 02:30:58 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 21:20:26 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:15:40 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:38:58 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:08:59 -0400, wrote:

I already posted this but so far they have already found 89 post
vaccination infections in Minnesota and those are just the ones
they
know about.

It's not clear to me what you're getting at. NPR says 130 million
doses
have been administered, with 46 million people being fully
vaccinated. With
that in mind, you seem to think it's significant that 89 people
still got
infected after being vaccinated.

The very first sentence of your linked article says "Health
officials
report dozens of fully-vaccinated people have contracted COVID-19
in
Minnesota, a development that wasn't unexpected." What part of "a
development that wasn't unexpected" is confusing you? Did someone
tell you
that any of the vaccines would be 100% effective? No, I don't
think they
did.

Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them
died as a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is 89?
Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why are
masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.


To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg since
we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

True. There could actually be 90 or more. Still, how does that number
compare to the millions who were able to avoid infection? And what
about
the rest of the questions I asked above? You avoided all of them.

I'm still trying to understand how you just happened to come to the
realization that none of the vaccines is 100% effective when their
efficacy
percentages were, and still are, in the news almost nonstop?

It does point out why this vaccine is far from the panacea we were
hoping for and why we will still be told to wear masks well into
2022
or even 23.

I don't know which planet you live on. Far from the panacea we were
hoping
for? You might need to flip the channel periodically or maybe read
more.
Who are the people who were hoping for a panacea?

The vaccine may help you from getting really sick, we are still
waiting to see how well that works but it is clear it doesn't keep
you
from being infected or infecting others.

Again, no one has ever, ever, said that any of the vaccines are 100%
effective. Perhaps you've heard that but didn't understand what it
means.

We also don't know how long it will be until a variant overwhelms
the
current vaccines.

You mean the situation is still evolving? Be still, my heart! You're
showing that you're really slow to pick up on what the experts have
been
saying for months. Try a different channel.

Yes you Democrats keep spinning up the company line but if people are
standing in line to vote in 2022 wearing masks they will be asking
"Didn't they say they were going to fix this ****"?

Considering the sweeping anti-voter law just passed in Georgia, how
could
the folks there NOT be standing in longer lines at the next election?

Just one state.

At the moment, it's 253 bills in 43 states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...licans-states/
Voting laws proposed by Republicans in 43 states would limit voter access

In 43 states across the country, Republican lawmakers have proposed at
least 250 laws that would limit mail, early in-person and Election Day
voting with such constraints as stricter ID requirements, limited hours or
narrower eligibility to vote absentee, according to data compiled as of
Feb. 19 by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice. Even more proposals
have been introduced since then.

But like with their stolen election bull****, it remains to be seen how many
will fly.

Like cancer, can spread. FL has had very goo mail voting for years but
there is a move to change what works.

Would not be surprised if the law end up in the courts.

I believe Georgia's law is already being challenged in the courts by Marc
Elias, the guy who won about 63 cases challenging Trump's claims of
election fraud, so he has a pretty good track record.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 5:25:56 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 02:30:58 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 21:20:26 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:15:40 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:38:58 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:08:59 -0400, wrote:

I already posted this but so far they have already found 89 post
vaccination infections in Minnesota and those are just the ones they
know about.

It's not clear to me what you're getting at. NPR says 130 million
doses
have been administered, with 46 million people being fully
vaccinated. With
that in mind, you seem to think it's significant that 89 people still
got
infected after being vaccinated.

The very first sentence of your linked article says "Health officials
report dozens of fully-vaccinated people have contracted COVID-19 in
Minnesota, a development that wasnt unexpected." What part of "a
development that wasn't unexpected" is confusing you? Did someone
tell you
that any of the vaccines would be 100% effective? No, I don't think
they
did.

Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them died
as a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is 89?
Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why are
masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.


To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg since we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

True. There could actually be 90 or more. Still, how does that number
compare to the millions who were able to avoid infection? And what
about
the rest of the questions I asked above? You avoided all of them.

I'm still trying to understand how you just happened to come to the
realization that none of the vaccines is 100% effective when their
efficacy
percentages were, and still are, in the news almost nonstop?

It does point out why this vaccine is far from the panacea we were
hoping for and why we will still be told to wear masks well into 2022
or even 23.

I don't know which planet you live on. Far from the panacea we were
hoping
for? You might need to flip the channel periodically or maybe read
more.
Who are the people who were hoping for a panacea?

The vaccine may help you from getting really sick, we are still
waiting to see how well that works but it is clear it doesn't keep you
from being infected or infecting others.

Again, no one has ever, ever, said that any of the vaccines are 100%
effective. Perhaps you've heard that but didn't understand what it
means.

We also don't know how long it will be until a variant overwhelms the
current vaccines.

You mean the situation is still evolving? Be still, my heart! You're
showing that you're really slow to pick up on what the experts have
been
saying for months. Try a different channel.

Yes you Democrats keep spinning up the company line but if people are
standing in line to vote in 2022 wearing masks they will be asking
"Didn't they say they were going to fix this ****"?
Considering the sweeping anti-voter law just passed in Georgia, how could
the folks there NOT be standing in longer lines at the next election?

That's your Republicans at work. Can't win an election fair and square?
Just make it so fewer people can vote, especially when the
disenfranchised
are likely to vote for the other side.

Fretwell tells us that Trump is gone, no longer a factor. What just
happened
in GA is another example of us still living with what Trump has wrought
and
what he is still promoting. Even the Republicans in GA that stood up to
Trump
helped put this stupid law into place. They did it because they still
fear Trump
and the Trumpets, so they hoped to appease them.

Nope, to improve the chances of any repugs.

Making it illegal to hand out water or a snack to voters in line?
I mean who comes up with this? I saw it and immediately knew
that the Republicans were going to get another black eye.
And for what exactly?

To improve the chances of any repugs.

What was the alleged harm here? And even if you had some beef
with it, rational people would see that it's really just a non-issue, that
it will just make Republicans look evil. Which of course it just did.

They dont care, what they care about is improving the chances of any
repugs.

Glad I'm not one anymore.

And they are glad about that too.

On 3/29/2021 8:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:


Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them died as a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is 89? Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why are masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.

To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg since we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

And how many people had been vaccinated? At least hundreds of thousands.
The vaccines are 75% to 95% effective, not 100%. Did any of the 89 wind up
hospitalized or die?


That was a big factor for me. Too many were in hospitals, on
ventilators, for weeks. Many that did recover are still having
problems. Avoiding the hospital is a good incentive to get the shot. I
get the second next Monday.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 10:39:02 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:29:07 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:41:14 -0700 (PDT), marika
wrote:

On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 1:16:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:38:58 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:08:59 -0400, wrote:

I already posted this but so far they have already found 89 post
vaccination infections in Minnesota and those are just the ones
they
know about.

It's not clear to me what you're getting at. NPR says 130 million
doses
have been administered, with 46 million people being fully
vaccinated.
With
that in mind, you seem to think it's significant that 89 people
still
got
infected after being vaccinated.

The very first sentence of your linked article says "Health
officials
report dozens of fully-vaccinated people have contracted COVID-19
in
Minnesota, a development that wasnt unexpected." What part of "a
development that wasn't unexpected" is confusing you? Did someone
tell
you
that any of the vaccines would be 100% effective? No, I don't
think
they
did.

Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them
died as
a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is 89?
Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why are
masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.

To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg since
we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the
doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

Do not know

however, when you get a vaccine you are de facto infected because
they
introduce a small bit of the virus into the system which causes an
immune
reaction

perhaps you are referring to side effects rather than infection

By contrast, my friend who is 64 and lives in jersey got hers quite a
while ago
no side effects

This is not that kind of vaccine. There is no corona virus in the
vaccine we are getting.

The infections are really new corona infections and predicted
in 5% or so who are vaccinated depending on which one you
get. Even assuming that is a pessimistic number and it is really
only 0.5% you are still talking about over a million getting
infected in spite of the vaccine..

But given that the vaccine eliminates severe disease and
turns the symptoms into those of a bad cold, no big deal.
No big deal until they infect someone who is not prepared to deal with
the mutation they have been cooking up.

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small
pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

How much post vaccination transmission
is there with any of those diseases.

They arent as infectious as covid, fool.

I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio" mask.

Because it doesnt spread by aerosols, ****wit.

Fauci says we will still be wearing masks
after everyone is vaccinated "into 2022".

And it remains to be seen if he is right.

OTOH we are not hearing from Fauci as much
as we used to., Biden may have muzzled him.

The real reason is because Biden isnt spouting
**** about the virus like Trump did and so Fauci
doesnt need to point out that its ****, stupid.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 03:01:41 +1100, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

03:01??? And it's trolling time for you ALREADY, you idiotic and useless
senile sociopath? Do you really know no shame AT ALL?

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?
Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 03:17:49 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread


--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 03:26:59 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


The real reason is because Biden isnt spouting
**** about the virus like Trump did and so Fauci
doesn¢t need to point out that its ****, stupid.

One has yet to find a filthy troll like you who keeps spouting as much ****
as you do on these groups, senile asshole!

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:38:36 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 05:14:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

The problem with your rant is if you are vaccinated you have all the
protection you will get. It still does not stop you from infecting
others so maybe they need to keep you away.

There you go again, spreading more BS, even though it's been explained
to you here many times now that this is not true.

That is not my bull****.

You're the one spreading it. You might as well own it.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:24:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

It's always all or nothing with Greg. Let'er rip. We can't do everything,
so let's do nothing.

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask.

Why stop at the 50's. Why not go back to the dawn of civilization. Could it
be because we've learned a few things since then?

Fauci says we will still be wearing masks after everyone is
vaccinated "into 2022".
OTOH we are not hearing from Fauci as much as we used to., Biden may
have muzzled him.

We're seeing Fauci everywhere these days. For example, he was on with
Morning Joe at 5am a few days ago and one of the late night talk shows that
same day, plus just about everything in between. You don't see him because
your one channel shows soaps during the day. The rest of us see him
throughout the day, nearly every day. One of the things he talks about is
how Trump's muzzle has been removed.

--

Why is it that the people who know the least always seem to have the
strongest opinions?

On 3/29/2021 1:35 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:24:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

It's always all or nothing with Greg. Let'er rip. We can't do everything,
so let's do nothing.

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask.

Why stop at the 50's. Why not go back to the dawn of civilization. Could it
be because we've learned a few things since then?

Fauci says we will still be wearing masks after everyone is
vaccinated "into 2022".
OTOH we are not hearing from Fauci as much as we used to., Biden may
have muzzled him.

We're seeing Fauci everywhere these days. For example, he was on with
Morning Joe at 5am a few days ago and one of the late night talk shows that
same day, plus just about everything in between. You don't see him because
your one channel shows soaps during the day. The rest of us see him
throughout the day, nearly every day. One of the things he talks about is
how Trump's muzzle has been removed.


Also Dr. Birx. She mention a phone call from Trump that was "very
uncomfortable" He did not like what she had to say in an interview.

Jim Joyce writes:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:24:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

It's always all or nothing with Greg. Let'er rip. We can't do everything,
so let's do nothing.

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask.

Why stop at the 50's. Why not go back to the dawn of civilization. Could it
be because we've learned a few things since then?

Completely leaving aside the rather inconvenient for Fretwell fact
that polio transmission mechanism is fecal-oral, not aerosols.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:35:28 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:24:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

It's always all or nothing with Greg. Let'er rip. We can't do everything,
so let's do nothing.

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask.

Why stop at the 50's. Why not go back to the dawn of civilization. Could it
be because we've learned a few things since then?

Fauci says we will still be wearing masks after everyone is
vaccinated "into 2022".
OTOH we are not hearing from Fauci as much as we used to., Biden may
have muzzled him.

We're seeing Fauci everywhere these days. For example, he was on with
Morning Joe at 5am a few days ago and one of the late night talk shows that
same day, plus just about everything in between. You don't see him because
your one channel shows soaps during the day. The rest of us see him
throughout the day, nearly every day. One of the things he talks about is
how Trump's muzzle has been removed.

I don't watch much TV other than the news and he is not on the news as
much. You are talking about entertainment shows. Maybe he is
positioning himself as a media personality like Dr Oz. (Phil, Drew,
Laura or any of those TV quacks)

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:22:33 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Jim Joyce writes:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:24:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

It's always all or nothing with Greg. Let'er rip. We can't do everything,
so let's do nothing.

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask.

Why stop at the 50's. Why not go back to the dawn of civilization. Could it
be because we've learned a few things since then?

Completely leaving aside the rather inconvenient for Fretwell fact
that polio transmission mechanism is fecal-oral, not aerosols.

Then why was it brought up in this context? (look up at the post I was
responding to)
Trader is the one who took us off in the weeds comparing this to Small
Pox, Diphtheria and Polio.

That was my point. This is different

This is a situation where having a million hosts (a very conservative
estimate, about 0.3% as apposed to the 5% they predict) carrying and
spreading mutations of a disease as virulent as this should be a
concern. Maybe it's nothing but up until now we have been basing
policy on the worst possible scenario no matter what the experience
indicates.

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 10:24:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 10:39:02 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:29:07 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:41:14 -0700 (PDT), marika
wrote:

On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 1:16:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:38:58 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:08:59 -0400, wrote:

I already posted this but so far they have already found 89 post
vaccination infections in Minnesota and those are just the ones they
know about.

It's not clear to me what you're getting at. NPR says 130 million doses
have been administered, with 46 million people being fully vaccinated.
With
that in mind, you seem to think it's significant that 89 people still
got
infected after being vaccinated.

The very first sentence of your linked article says "Health officials
report dozens of fully-vaccinated people have contracted COVID-19 in
Minnesota, a development that wasnt unexpected." What part of "a
development that wasn't unexpected" is confusing you? Did someone tell
you
that any of the vaccines would be 100% effective? No, I don't think
they
did.

Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them died as
a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is 89? Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why are
masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.

To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg since we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

Do not know

however, when you get a vaccine you are de facto infected because they
introduce a small bit of the virus into the system which causes an immune
reaction

perhaps you are referring to side effects rather than infection

By contrast, my friend who is 64 and lives in jersey got hers quite a
while ago
no side effects

This is not that kind of vaccine. There is no corona virus in the
vaccine we are getting.

The infections are really new corona infections and predicted
in 5% or so who are vaccinated depending on which one you
get. Even assuming that is a pessimistic number and it is really
only 0.5% you are still talking about over a million getting
infected in spite of the vaccine..

But given that the vaccine eliminates severe disease and
turns the symptoms into those of a bad cold, no big deal.
No big deal until they infect someone who is not prepared to deal with
the mutation they have been cooking up.

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?
How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases.

How much is there with Covid? The vaccines greatly reduce the number of
people who will be infected, that reduces transmission. The data is continuing
to come in and it's ALL good.


I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask. Fauci says we will still be wearing masks after everyone is
vaccinated "into 2022".

I'd like to see the link to where he said that.

OTOH we are not hearing from Fauci as much as we used to., Biden may
have muzzled him.

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 10:38:52 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 05:14:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

The problem with your rant is if you are vaccinated you have all the
protection you will get. It still does not stop you from infecting
others so maybe they need to keep you away.

There you go again, spreading more BS, even though it's been explained
to you here many times now that this is not true.
That is not my bull****.
Vaccinated people can still spread the virus.

But the point you continue to totally miss is that the vaccine greatly reduces
the number of people INFECTED. That in turn greatly reduces the spread.
Sure, some people who are vaccinated will still get infected and could still
spread it. That doesn't mean that the vaccines are not enormously successful
in stopping the spread of Covid.




https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsl...read-the-virus
"Patients who have been vaccinated can certainly still contract
SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, and pass it on to others.
There are two reasons for that, says Matthew Woodruff, an immunologist
at Emory University."
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/12...order-vaccine/
"Vaccinated people could still carry and spread the virus and should
continue to wear masks, practice frequent hand-washing and socially
distance until a majority of the population is inoculated, Krouse
said."

And I'm sure the part about "until a majority of the population is inoculated,
went right in one ear and out the other.




https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...ne/ar-BB1cMHJe
Dr. Fauci Said You Can Still Carry the Virus After Getting Vaccinated

"I do want to ask you about this new study overseas, this study of
British healthcare workers," said Today anchor Craig Melvin. "And it
found that folks with antibodies could still carry and spread the
virus. How worried should we be about our friends and family members
who've already had COVID-19?"
Fauci, for his part, has long said we'd still need to abide by public
health measures even after getting vaccinated, just in case.
"Obviously, with a 90-plus percent effective vaccine, you could feel
much more confident" that you won't get COVID-19, Fauci told CNN. "But
I would recommend to people to not abandon all public health measures
just because you have been vaccinated€¦.even though, for the general
population, it might be 90 to 95% effective," said Fauci, "you don't
necessarily know, for you, how effective it is."

And all that has gone in one ear and out the other many times now for you too.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:22:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/29/2021 8:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:


Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them died as a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is 89? Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why are masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.

To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg since we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

And how many people had been vaccinated? At least hundreds of thousands.
The vaccines are 75% to 95% effective, not 100%. Did any of the 89 wind up
hospitalized or die?


That was a big factor for me. Too many were in hospitals, on
ventilators, for weeks. Many that did recover are still having
problems. Avoiding the hospital is a good incentive to get the shot. I
get the second next Monday.

Total hospitalization since April 2020 was 878310 or 0.266% of
330Million people.
https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_co...spitalizations
Those are all the people who tested positive for covid in the
hospital, no matter while they went in the first place.
That is bad but maybe not as scary as the hype.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:24:50 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:38:36 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 05:14:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

The problem with your rant is if you are vaccinated you have all the
protection you will get. It still does not stop you from infecting
others so maybe they need to keep you away.

There you go again, spreading more BS, even though it's been explained
to you here many times now that this is not true.

That is not my bull****.

You're the one spreading it. You might as well own it.

Are you just trying to be an asshole or are you seriously saying
vaccinated people can't carry and spread the virus?
If so you are refuting the government and the doctors but if you think
you are right, why am I still wearing a mask?

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:22:33 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Jim Joyce writes:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:24:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective
and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio,
small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

It's always all or nothing with Greg. Let'er rip. We can't do everything,
so let's do nothing.

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask.

Why stop at the 50's. Why not go back to the dawn of civilization. Could
it
be because we've learned a few things since then?

Completely leaving aside the rather inconvenient for Fretwell fact
that polio transmission mechanism is fecal-oral, not aerosols.

Then why was it brought up in this context?

Because pig ignorant fools like you abound.

(look up at the post I was responding to)
Trader is the one who took us off in the weeds
comparing this to Small Pox, Diphtheria and Polio.

He was doing nothing of the sort. He was in fact
rubbing your stupid nose in the fact that even
when a particular vaccine isnt 100% effective
in everyone, they work anyway and eliminate
the disease as a significant medical problem.

That was my point. This is different

Not with whether vaccination works there isnt.

The only time it doesn't eliminate the medical
problem with a particular virus is when that
virus mutates very quickly like with the common
cold and influenza. And even influenza is helped
significantly with vaccination.

This is a situation where having a million hosts (a very
conservative estimate, about 0.3% as apposed to the 5%
they predict) carrying and spreading mutations of a
disease as virulent as this should be a concern.

Of course it is, but not a reason to not vaccinate, ****wit.

Maybe it's nothing but up until now we have been
basing policy on the worst possible scenario
no matter what the experience indicates.

Bull**** we have.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:25:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 10:24:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 10:39:02 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:29:07 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:41:14 -0700 (PDT), marika
wrote:

On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 1:16:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:38:58 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:08:59 -0400, wrote:

I already posted this but so far they have already found 89 post
vaccination infections in Minnesota and those are just the ones they
know about.

It's not clear to me what you're getting at. NPR says 130 million doses
have been administered, with 46 million people being fully vaccinated.
With
that in mind, you seem to think it's significant that 89 people still
got
infected after being vaccinated.

The very first sentence of your linked article says "Health officials
report dozens of fully-vaccinated people have contracted COVID-19 in
Minnesota, a development that wasnt unexpected." What part of "a
development that wasn't unexpected" is confusing you? Did someone tell
you
that any of the vaccines would be 100% effective? No, I don't think
they
did.

Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them died as
a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is 89? Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why are
masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.

To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg since we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

Do not know

however, when you get a vaccine you are de facto infected because they
introduce a small bit of the virus into the system which causes an immune
reaction

perhaps you are referring to side effects rather than infection

By contrast, my friend who is 64 and lives in jersey got hers quite a
while ago
no side effects

This is not that kind of vaccine. There is no corona virus in the
vaccine we are getting.

The infections are really new corona infections and predicted
in 5% or so who are vaccinated depending on which one you
get. Even assuming that is a pessimistic number and it is really
only 0.5% you are still talking about over a million getting
infected in spite of the vaccine..

But given that the vaccine eliminates severe disease and
turns the symptoms into those of a bad cold, no big deal.
No big deal until they infect someone who is not prepared to deal with
the mutation they have been cooking up.

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?
How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases.

How much is there with Covid? The vaccines greatly reduce the number of
people who will be infected, that reduces transmission. The data is continuing
to come in and it's ALL good.


I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask. Fauci says we will still be wearing masks after everyone is
vaccinated "into 2022".

I'd like to see the link to where he said that.

Top hit on google.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/polit...ntv/index.html

wrote in message
news
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:25:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 10:24:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 10:39:02 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:29:07 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:41:14 -0700 (PDT), marika
wrote:

On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 1:16:10 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:38:58 -0500, Jim Joyce

wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 01:08:59 -0400, wrote:

I already posted this but so far they have already found 89
post
vaccination infections in Minnesota and those are just the
ones they
know about.

It's not clear to me what you're getting at. NPR says 130
million doses
have been administered, with 46 million people being fully
vaccinated.
With
that in mind, you seem to think it's significant that 89 people
still
got
infected after being vaccinated.

The very first sentence of your linked article says "Health
officials
report dozens of fully-vaccinated people have contracted
COVID-19 in
Minnesota, a development that wasnt unexpected." What part of
"a
development that wasn't unexpected" is confusing you? Did
someone tell
you
that any of the vaccines would be 100% effective? No, I don't
think
they
did.

Did any of those 89 people end up in the ICU? How many of them
died as
a
result of getting infected? What percentage of 46 million is
89? Maybe
those are some of the questions you should be asking. Not "why
are
masks
still being recommended." This stuff really isn't that hard.

To start with 89 people might just be the tip of the iceberg
since we
don't know how many people got infected and didn't go to the
doctor.
This was also one fairly small state.

Do not know

however, when you get a vaccine you are de facto infected because
they
introduce a small bit of the virus into the system which causes an
immune
reaction

perhaps you are referring to side effects rather than infection

By contrast, my friend who is 64 and lives in jersey got hers
quite a
while ago
no side effects

This is not that kind of vaccine. There is no corona virus in the
vaccine we are getting.

The infections are really new corona infections and predicted
in 5% or so who are vaccinated depending on which one you
get. Even assuming that is a pessimistic number and it is really
only 0.5% you are still talking about over a million getting
infected in spite of the vaccine..

But given that the vaccine eliminates severe disease and
turns the symptoms into those of a bad cold, no big deal.
No big deal until they infect someone who is not prepared to deal
with
the mutation they have been cooking up.

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective
and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio,
small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?
How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases.

How much is there with Covid? The vaccines greatly reduce the number of
people who will be infected, that reduces transmission. The data is
continuing
to come in and it's ALL good.


I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask. Fauci says we will still be wearing masks after everyone is
vaccinated "into 2022".

I'd like to see the link to where he said that.

Top hit on google.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/polit...ntv/index.html

That says POSSIBLE, ****wit.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:30:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 10:38:52 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 05:14:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

The problem with your rant is if you are vaccinated you have all the
protection you will get. It still does not stop you from infecting
others so maybe they need to keep you away.

There you go again, spreading more BS, even though it's been explained
to you here many times now that this is not true.
That is not my bull****.
Vaccinated people can still spread the virus.

But the point you continue to totally miss is that the vaccine greatly reduces
the number of people INFECTED. That in turn greatly reduces the spread.
Sure, some people who are vaccinated will still get infected and could still
spread it. That doesn't mean that the vaccines are not enormously successful
in stopping the spread of Covid.

Tonight on NBC they are saying Moderna and Pfizer may only be 90%
effective in preventing infection in "real world situations".

33 million infected people walking around sounds like a lot to me,
assuming 100% get vaccinated.
If they are mutation farms as any host will be. How long will it be
before they grow one that the vaccines can't address? I understand
their body might shrug it off as a minor bit of chest congestion or
something or maybe even totally asymptomatic but how about grandma?
Isn't that what we have been worried about all along?

Hey if you folks want to play "what if" with worst case scenarios like
you have been doing all along, I am just giving you another one.



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsl...read-the-virus
"Patients who have been vaccinated can certainly still contract
SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, and pass it on to others.
There are two reasons for that, says Matthew Woodruff, an immunologist
at Emory University."
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/12...order-vaccine/
"Vaccinated people could still carry and spread the virus and should
continue to wear masks, practice frequent hand-washing and socially
distance until a majority of the population is inoculated, Krouse
said."

And I'm sure the part about "until a majority of the population is inoculated,
went right in one ear and out the other.


That assumes there won't be a more virulent strain growing in those
who remain infected in spite of the vaccine.
If I want to create a mutation farm, nothing would be better than
millions of people who host and propagate the virus asymptomatically.
It will constantly be trying to defeat the antibodies in the person's
body. I young healthy person should be able to shrug it off. What
happens when they kiss grandma with their new super bug?



https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...ne/ar-BB1cMHJe
Dr. Fauci Said You Can Still Carry the Virus After Getting Vaccinated

"I do want to ask you about this new study overseas, this study of
British healthcare workers," said Today anchor Craig Melvin. "And it
found that folks with antibodies could still carry and spread the
virus. How worried should we be about our friends and family members
who've already had COVID-19?"
Fauci, for his part, has long said we'd still need to abide by public
health measures even after getting vaccinated, just in case.
"Obviously, with a 90-plus percent effective vaccine, you could feel
much more confident" that you won't get COVID-19, Fauci told CNN. "But
I would recommend to people to not abandon all public health measures
just because you have been vaccinated€¦.even though, for the general
population, it might be 90 to 95% effective," said Fauci, "you don't
necessarily know, for you, how effective it is."

And all that has gone in one ear and out the other many times now for you too.

They are now saying a "real world" guess is 90% (AKA 10% failure)
rate. Glad I didn't believe 95%.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/covid-19-vaccines-90percent-effective-in-real-world-conditions-study-shows/ar-BB1f66v3

Of course that is the guess of the week.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:30:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 10:38:52 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 05:14:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

The problem with your rant is if you are vaccinated you have all the
protection you will get. It still does not stop you from infecting
others so maybe they need to keep you away.

There you go again, spreading more BS, even though it's been explained
to you here many times now that this is not true.
That is not my bull****.
Vaccinated people can still spread the virus.

But the point you continue to totally miss is that the vaccine greatly
reduces
the number of people INFECTED. That in turn greatly reduces the spread.
Sure, some people who are vaccinated will still get infected and could
still
spread it. That doesn't mean that the vaccines are not enormously
successful
in stopping the spread of Covid.

Tonight on NBC they are saying Moderna and Pfizer may only
be 90% effective in preventing infection in "real world situations".

Yes, but no vaccine is ever 100% effective, ****wit.

33 million infected people walking around sounds
like a lot to me, assuming 100% get vaccinated.

Yes, you actually are that stupid. If 100% do get
vaccinated, 33 million wont be infected, with that
effectiveness rate because the entire population
wont come into contact with the virus, ****wit.

If they are mutation farms as any host will be.

They cant be if they arent infected, ****wit.

How long will it be before they grow
one that the vaccines can't address?

That isnt true of any vaccine yet.

And even if that does happen, no reason why the
vaccines cant be tweaked to address that mutant.
And much more quickly than with the original
development of the vaccines, because there
will be no need to the full phase 3 trials then.

I understand their body might shrug it off as a minor bit of chest
congestion or something or maybe even totally asymptomatic

No might about it, thats been proven with the phase 3 trials to
be what happens. Thats why the vaccines have been approved.

but how about grandma?

The best of the phase 3 trials found
that is what happens with grandma.

Isn't that what we have been worried about all along?

That and other things.

Hey if you folks want to play "what if" with worst
case scenarios like you have been doing all along,

More of your bare faced lies.

I am just giving you another one.

Nope, you are actually flaunting your
complete pig ignorance, as always.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsl...read-the-virus
"Patients who have been vaccinated can certainly still contract
SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, and pass it on to others.
There are two reasons for that, says Matthew Woodruff, an immunologist
at Emory University."
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/12...order-vaccine/
"Vaccinated people could still carry and spread the virus and should
continue to wear masks, practice frequent hand-washing and socially
distance until a majority of the population is inoculated, Krouse
said."

And I'm sure the part about "until a majority of the population
is inoculated, went right in one ear and out the other.

That assumes there won't be a more virulent strain growing
in those who remain infected in spite of the vaccine.

Nope, the data comes from places which have the more virulent strains.

If I want to create a mutation farm, nothing would be better than
millions of people who host and propagate the virus asymptomatically.

More utterly mindless stuff. The more virulent strains are
called that because they ARENT virus asymptomatic.

It will constantly be trying to defeat the antibodies in the person's
body. I young healthy person should be able to shrug it off. What
happens when they kiss grandma with their new super bug?

Her vaccination will prevent her getting infected most of the
time and that the worst result she gets if she does get infected
is like the common cold if she isnt asymptomatic too.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...ne/ar-BB1cMHJe
Dr. Fauci Said You Can Still Carry the Virus After Getting Vaccinated

"I do want to ask you about this new study overseas, this study of
British healthcare workers," said Today anchor Craig Melvin. "And it
found that folks with antibodies could still carry and spread the
virus. How worried should we be about our friends and family members
who've already had COVID-19?"
Fauci, for his part, has long said we'd still need to abide by public
health measures even after getting vaccinated, just in case.
"Obviously, with a 90-plus percent effective vaccine, you could feel
much more confident" that you won't get COVID-19, Fauci told CNN. "But
I would recommend to people to not abandon all public health measures
just because you have been vaccinated€¦.even though, for the general
population, it might be 90 to 95% effective," said Fauci, "you don't
necessarily know, for you, how effective it is."

And all that has gone in one ear and out the other many times now for you
too.

They are now saying a "real world" guess is 90%

Its not a guess, its a MEASURED RESULT ****wit.

(AKA 10% failure) rate. Glad I didn't believe 95%.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/covid-19-vaccines-90percent-effective-in-real-world-conditions-study-shows/ar-BB1f66v3

Of course that is the guess of the week.

Nope, a measured result. Thats what the word STUDY means.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:05:10 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 5:25:56 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
Considering the sweeping anti-voter law just passed in Georgia, how could
the folks there NOT be standing in longer lines at the next election?

That's your Republicans at work. Can't win an election fair and square?
Just make it so fewer people can vote, especially when the disenfranchised
are likely to vote for the other side.

Fretwell tells us that Trump is gone, no longer a factor.

He's completely out of touch with reality. As time goes on, he seems to be
in a steep decline.

What just happened in GA
is another example of us still living with what Trump has wrought and what he is
still promoting. Even the Republicans in GA that stood up to Trump helped put
this stupid law into place. They did it because they still fear Trump and the Trumpets,
so they hoped to appease them.

For Raffensperger, it's too little, too late. Trump has already endorsed
the guy who's running against him.

Making it illegal to hand out water or a snack to voters in line? I mean who
comes up with this? I saw it and immediately knew
that the Republicans were going to get another black eye. And for what exactly?
What was the alleged harm here? And even if you had some beef with it, rational
people would see that it's really just a non-issue, that it will just make Republicans
look evil. Which of course it just did. Glad I'm not one anymore.

Even Lindsey Graham had trouble supporting that part of the law, but I've
seen hardcore Trump supporters say that it's about the security and safety
of the folks who are standing in line, as in, they want to protect the
voters from taking tainted water and poisoned snacks from strangers. That's
laughable.

The reality of it is quite different, of course. The law reduces the number
of days of early voting, reduces the number of polling places, and closes
the polling places earlier, so longer lines are a feature of the new law,
not a bug.

In addition to being a felony to offer voters drinks or snacks, it's now a
felony to stand in line for someone else so they can go use a restroom, for
example. You can't even ask the person behind you to hold your place. If
you leave the line, you lose your place.

Wasn't it in Arizona, where the GOP spokesman publicly said, "If we make
voting easy, we'll never win another election." I say, how about competing
for votes by coming up with a platform that more people agree with. They
can't just appeal to older white men and still hope to win elections. Not
without cheating, anyway.

253 voter restriction bills in 43 states, so far. They're cheating right
out in the open now, enabled by the smell of Trump. He'll be with us for a
long time to come. Fretwell thought he was gone, bless his heart.

On 3/29/2021 8:35 PM, wrote:


Tonight on NBC they are saying Moderna and Pfizer may only be 90%
effective in preventing infection in "real world situations".

33 million infected people walking around sounds like a lot to me,
assuming 100% get vaccinated.

At some point you have herd immunity too.

But look closely at the scenario. 33 million is better than 330
million. Also, the vaccines have prevented hospitalizations, the need
for ventilators and deaths.

IMO, 90% is still a good thing.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:22:33 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Jim Joyce writes:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:24:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

It's always all or nothing with Greg. Let'er rip. We can't do everything,
so let's do nothing.

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask.

Why stop at the 50's. Why not go back to the dawn of civilization. Could it
be because we've learned a few things since then?

Completely leaving aside the rather inconvenient for Fretwell fact
that polio transmission mechanism is fecal-oral, not aerosols.

I considered mentioning that but he doesn't do well with certain kinds of
information.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:00:30 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:35:28 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:24:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

It's always all or nothing with Greg. Let'er rip. We can't do everything,
so let's do nothing.

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask.

Why stop at the 50's. Why not go back to the dawn of civilization. Could it
be because we've learned a few things since then?

Fauci says we will still be wearing masks after everyone is
vaccinated "into 2022".
OTOH we are not hearing from Fauci as much as we used to., Biden may
have muzzled him.

We're seeing Fauci everywhere these days. For example, he was on with
Morning Joe at 5am a few days ago and one of the late night talk shows that
same day, plus just about everything in between. You don't see him because
your one channel shows soaps during the day. The rest of us see him
throughout the day, nearly every day. One of the things he talks about is
how Trump's muzzle has been removed.

I don't watch much TV other than the news

You also don't read much. You still have strong opinions, though.

and he is not on the news as
much. You are talking about entertainment shows.

Please don't tell me what I'm talking about.

Maybe he is
positioning himself as a media personality like Dr Oz. (Phil, Drew,
Laura or any of those TV quacks)

That's beyond ignorant.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:34:03 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:24:50 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:38:36 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 05:14:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

The problem with your rant is if you are vaccinated you have all the
protection you will get. It still does not stop you from infecting
others so maybe they need to keep you away.

There you go again, spreading more BS, even though it's been explained
to you here many times now that this is not true.

That is not my bull****.

You're the one spreading it. You might as well own it.

Are you just trying to be an asshole or are you seriously saying
vaccinated people can't carry and spread the virus?

I said you were spreading BS and you should just own it.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:23:37 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:22:33 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Jim Joyce writes:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:24:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

It's always all or nothing with Greg. Let'er rip. We can't do everything,
so let's do nothing.

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask.

Why stop at the 50's. Why not go back to the dawn of civilization. Could it
be because we've learned a few things since then?

Completely leaving aside the rather inconvenient for Fretwell fact
that polio transmission mechanism is fecal-oral, not aerosols.

Then why was it brought up in this context?

The context was vaccines. You tried to change the context to masks, but you
got busted.

(look up at the post I was
responding to)
Trader is the one who took us off in the weeds comparing this to Small
Pox, Diphtheria and Polio.

Trader was right when he talked about vaccines for those things. It's a
mystery how you heard vaccine and got mask out of it.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:35:16 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Because pig ignorant fools like you abound.

Hardly as pig ignorant as you though, you ridiculous abnormal trolling
sociopath.

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:21:02 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


That says POSSIBLE, ****wit.

Everything about you says: senile sociopath!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 12:15:46 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH more of the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Java Jive to senile Rodent:
You're getting there, it's clear that you've now reached the level of
"Nyah nyah nanyah nyah!", but surely you can be even more juvenile than
that?
MID:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:04:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/29/2021 1:35 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:24:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

It's always all or nothing with Greg. Let'er rip. We can't do everything,
so let's do nothing.

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask.

Why stop at the 50's. Why not go back to the dawn of civilization. Could it
be because we've learned a few things since then?

Fauci says we will still be wearing masks after everyone is
vaccinated "into 2022".
OTOH we are not hearing from Fauci as much as we used to., Biden may
have muzzled him.

We're seeing Fauci everywhere these days. For example, he was on with
Morning Joe at 5am a few days ago and one of the late night talk shows that
same day, plus just about everything in between. You don't see him because
your one channel shows soaps during the day. The rest of us see him
throughout the day, nearly every day. One of the things he talks about is
how Trump's muzzle has been removed.


Also Dr. Birx. She mention a phone call from Trump that was "very
uncomfortable" He did not like what she had to say in an interview.

For me, Dr. Birx lost a lot of credibility when she was in a position where
speaking up could have saved, by her count, some 400K lives. She was too
focused on being careful not to upset Trump. Now that she's out from under
that shadow, she's starting to speak but it's too late.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 02:15:04 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:22:33 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Jim Joyce writes:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:24:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

You're right, vaccines can't work because they are not 100% effective and
viruses mutate. That's why we haven't been able to put down polio, small pox,
diptheria, etc, right?

It's always all or nothing with Greg. Let'er rip. We can't do everything,
so let's do nothing.

How much post vaccination transmission is there with any of those
diseases. I was alive in the 50s and nobody was wearing a "polio"
mask.

Why stop at the 50's. Why not go back to the dawn of civilization. Could it
be because we've learned a few things since then?

Completely leaving aside the rather inconvenient for Fretwell fact
that polio transmission mechanism is fecal-oral, not aerosols.

I considered mentioning that but he doesn't do well with certain kinds of
information.

I know you have an obsession with me but it was Trader who brought up
the Polio.
Carry on tho.