Italy has admitted its suspension of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was
a €˜political move, amid fury at several EU nations who have halted the
jabs over unproven fears of blood clots.

The revelation comes as the EUs medicines regulator confirmed there
is €˜no indication that the AstraZeneca vaccine is the cause of reported
blood clots.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/italy...9/?ito=cbshare

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:35:47 +0000, Bod
wrote:

Italy has admitted its suspension of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was
a ‘political’ move, amid fury at several EU nations who have halted the
jabs over unproven fears of blood clots.

The revelation comes as the EU’s medicines regulator confirmed there
is ‘no indication’ that the AstraZeneca vaccine is the cause of reported
blood clots.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/italy...9/?ito=cbshare

It continues: "Nicola Magrini, the head of Italian medicines regulator
AIFA, said politicians came under pressure to follow Germany and France
in calling off the jabs.

So was Germany's action political, or do they think they have a good
medical reason, even if only precautionary.

I think that's the only question.

Suggesting that for Italy it was political sound like it was to harm the
country where AZ is made, maybe to retaliate for an unrelated injury to
Italy.

I don't think imitating Germany, even if caused by political pressure,
is political, certainly not if Italy doesn't know that Germany is wrong.

How long will it take to look at the data sufficiently? .

"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:35:47 +0000, Bod
wrote:

Italy has admitted its suspension of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was
a 'political' move, amid fury at several EU nations who have halted the
jabs over unproven fears of blood clots.

The revelation comes as the EU's medicines regulator confirmed there
is 'no indication' that the AstraZeneca vaccine is the cause of reported
blood clots.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/italy...9/?ito=cbshare

It continues: "Nicola Magrini, the head of Italian medicines regulator
AIFA, said politicians came under pressure to follow Germany and France
in calling off the jabs.

So was Germany's action political, or do they think they
have a good medical reason, even if only precautionary.

The latter.

I think that's the only question.

Suggesting that for Italy it was political sound like
it was to harm the country where AZ is made,

Not really. They were the ones who refused to allow AZ exports,
because AZ wasn't delivering what they said they would.

maybe to retaliate for an unrelated injury to Italy.

Nope.

I don't think imitating Germany, even if caused by political pressure,
is political, certainly not if Italy doesn't know that Germany is wrong.

How long will it take to look at the data sufficiently? .

Just a couple. Norway has already decided that its better
to keep vaccinating because the risk when not vaccinated
is much worse than what has been seen with a tiny number
of those vaccinated who have had a blood clot problem.

The background rate of blot clots causing medical problems is surprisingly
high.

On 17/03/2021 07:26, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:35:47 +0000, Bod
wrote:

Italy has admitted its suspension of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was
a €˜political move, amid fury at several EU nations who have halted the
jabs over unproven fears of blood clots.

The revelation comes as the EUs medicines regulator confirmed there
is €˜no indication that the AstraZeneca vaccine is the cause of reported
blood clots.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/italy...9/?ito=cbshare

It continues: "Nicola Magrini, the head of Italian medicines regulator
AIFA, said politicians came under pressure to follow Germany and France
in calling off the jabs.

So was Germany's action political, or do they think they have a good
medical reason, even if only precautionary.

I think that's the only question.

Suggesting that for Italy it was political sound like it was to harm the
country where AZ is made, maybe to retaliate for an unrelated injury to
Italy.

I don't think imitating Germany, even if caused by political pressure,
is political, certainly not if Italy doesn't know that Germany is wrong.

How long will it take to look at the data sufficiently? .

The data hs been thoroughly looked at and the amount of blood clots in
patients is no higher than previous years without using this vaccine.

The EMA has stressed that there is "currently no indication that
vaccination caused ... overall in vaccinated people seems not to be
higher than that seen in the general population." ... blood clots are
fairly common - and given the sheer number of ...

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...rried-12246472

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 20:25:27 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

The senile trolling pest from Oz, as usual, has ALL the answers again!
Simply hilarious!

--
Richard about senile Rodent:
"Rod Speed, a bare faced pig and ignorant ****."
MID:

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 5:31:55 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
On 17/03/2021 07:26, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:35:47 +0000, Bod
wrote:

Italy has admitted its suspension of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was
a €˜political move, amid fury at several EU nations who have halted the
jabs over unproven fears of blood clots.

The revelation comes as the EUs medicines regulator confirmed there
is €˜no indication that the AstraZeneca vaccine is the cause of reported
blood clots.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/italy...9/?ito=cbshare

It continues: "Nicola Magrini, the head of Italian medicines regulator
AIFA, said politicians came under pressure to follow Germany and France
in calling off the jabs.

So was Germany's action political, or do they think they have a good
medical reason, even if only precautionary.

I think that's the only question.

Suggesting that for Italy it was political sound like it was to harm the
country where AZ is made, maybe to retaliate for an unrelated injury to
Italy.

I don't think imitating Germany, even if caused by political pressure,
is political, certainly not if Italy doesn't know that Germany is wrong..

How long will it take to look at the data sufficiently? .

The data hs been thoroughly looked at and the amount of blood clots in
patients is no higher than previous years without using this vaccine.

The EMA has stressed that there is "currently no indication that
vaccination caused ... overall in vaccinated people seems not to be
higher than that seen in the general population." ... blood clots are
fairly common - and given the sheer number of ...

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...rried-12246472

But it's not just blood clots. Norway has three healthcare workers seriously sick,
hospitalized after being vaccinated. The symptoms are clotting, bleeding and an
unusually low blood cell count. From what I've read, the doctors aren't saying this
is consistent with what we routinely see with blood clot cases. They are saying they
don't know what it is.

I'm not necessarily saying that it's worth halting the vaccinations, because the
benefit still outweighs the risks. But I believe that some healthy people are dying from
some reaction to the vaccines that is not understood at this point. And I also think
that health authorities in many countries don't want to look to hard to find anything
wrong, because it would discourage people from getting vaccinated.

On 17/03/2021 11:29, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 5:31:55 AM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
On 17/03/2021 07:26, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:35:47 +0000, Bod
wrote:

Italy has admitted its suspension of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was
a €˜political move, amid fury at several EU nations who have halted the
jabs over unproven fears of blood clots.

The revelation comes as the EUs medicines regulator confirmed there
is €˜no indication that the AstraZeneca vaccine is the cause of reported
blood clots.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/italy...9/?ito=cbshare

It continues: "Nicola Magrini, the head of Italian medicines regulator
AIFA, said politicians came under pressure to follow Germany and France
in calling off the jabs.

So was Germany's action political, or do they think they have a good
medical reason, even if only precautionary.

I think that's the only question.

Suggesting that for Italy it was political sound like it was to harm the
country where AZ is made, maybe to retaliate for an unrelated injury to
Italy.

I don't think imitating Germany, even if caused by political pressure,
is political, certainly not if Italy doesn't know that Germany is wrong.

How long will it take to look at the data sufficiently? .

The data hs been thoroughly looked at and the amount of blood clots in
patients is no higher than previous years without using this vaccine.

The EMA has stressed that there is "currently no indication that
vaccination caused ... overall in vaccinated people seems not to be
higher than that seen in the general population." ... blood clots are
fairly common - and given the sheer number of ...

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...rried-12246472

But it's not just blood clots. Norway has three healthcare workers seriously sick,
hospitalized after being vaccinated. The symptoms are clotting, bleeding and an
unusually low blood cell count. From what I've read, the doctors aren't saying this
is consistent with what we routinely see with blood clot cases. They are saying they
don't know what it is.

I'm not necessarily saying that it's worth halting the vaccinations, because the
benefit still outweighs the risks. But I believe that some healthy people are dying from
some reaction to the vaccines that is not understood at this point. And I also think
that health authorities in many countries don't want to look to hard to find anything
wrong, because it would discourage people from getting vaccinated.



I agree with all of your points, but probably, a guesstimate of around
99.09% don't get blood clots etc.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Mar 2021 20:25:27 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"micky" wrote in message
.. .
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:35:47 +0000, Bod
wrote:

Italy has admitted its suspension of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was
a 'political' move, amid fury at several EU nations who have halted the
jabs over unproven fears of blood clots.

The revelation comes as the EU's medicines regulator confirmed there
is 'no indication' that the AstraZeneca vaccine is the cause of reported
blood clots.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/italy...9/?ito=cbshare

It continues: "Nicola Magrini, the head of Italian medicines regulator
AIFA, said politicians came under pressure to follow Germany and France
in calling off the jabs.

So was Germany's action political, or do they think they
have a good medical reason, even if only precautionary.

The latter.

I think that's the only question.

Suggesting that for Italy it was political sound like
it was to harm the country where AZ is made,

Not really. They were the ones who refused to allow AZ exports,
because AZ wasn't delivering what they said they would.

I'm not saying that was the reason, only that calling it political is
based on the political pressure being applied to whowever made Italy's
decision, but it sounds like it's the basic reason those applying the
pressure wanted that to be done. And afaik the reson they wanted it to
be done is medical, not political. The Italians - presumably they were
Italian - have some measure of faith in the German medical system and if
Germany thought it was worth pausing then they thought so for Italy too.

The inabilty to distinguish two (sometimes more) stages before an action
is completed has enabled those who say it's political to describe the
second stage while ignoring the first stage, which is much more
important, and the first stage is medical.

I don't know if those calling it political had some anti-government or
other bias, or they're just sloppy, or they hate political motives and
actions and they see them wherever it's conceivably possible.

One reason the second stage is less important, often unimportant,
because almost everything that government bodies and employees do is
political in one way or the other. The head of the Italian health
department calls a meeting and one who attends is the head of their
infectious disease department. Another is the head of the Corona
prevention project, and the chairman of the meeting says, Here's the
problem, I want you to look into this and get back to me with a
recommendation. That itself is political. If the President of Italy
calls the head of the health department and sternly says, GET ON THIS,
that might look even more political. If the President has made up his
mind based on news reports and says "I nt a pause and investigations. DO
IT", that is for sure political pressure, but his reasons are medical,
the bad medical reports he read in the newspaper, and that's far more
important.

maybe to retaliate for an unrelated injury to Italy.

Nope.

Again, I'm not saying that was the reason, only that the use of
"political" makes it seem TO ME and others I'm sure that the underlying
reason was not medical, health-based, when I'm pretty sure, and I think
you said the same thing, it was medical.


I don't think imitating Germany, even if caused by political pressure,
is political, certainly not if Italy doesn't know that Germany is wrong.

How long will it take to look at the data sufficiently? .

Just a couple. Norway has already decided that its better
to keep vaccinating because the risk when not vaccinated
is much worse than what has been seen with a tiny number
of those vaccinated who have had a blood clot problem.

Trader has said it's more than a blood clot problem.

OTOH someone on the radio said that the benefit still outweighs the
risk, and that would be true if A-Z were the only vaccine, or infection
was just about to enter your home and you had not a bit of time to
waste. Neither of those are likely to be true for most Italians, but the
3rd reason the guy on the radio might be right is that the other 3
vaccines ready now are not available aiui and Italy might have to wait
6? months if it doesn't use the A-Z.

But if none of these 3 reasons applied, that the benefit outweighs the
risk is not a sufficient reason if you can use another vaccine with the
same benefit and less risk.

The background rate of blot clots causing medical problems is surprisingly
high.

"micky" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Mar 2021 20:25:27 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"micky" wrote in message
. ..
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:35:47 +0000, Bod
wrote:

Italy has admitted its suspension of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was
a 'political' move, amid fury at several EU nations who have halted the
jabs over unproven fears of blood clots.

The revelation comes as the EU's medicines regulator confirmed there
is 'no indication' that the AstraZeneca vaccine is the cause of reported
blood clots.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/italy...9/?ito=cbshare

It continues: "Nicola Magrini, the head of Italian medicines regulator
AIFA, said politicians came under pressure to follow Germany and France
in calling off the jabs.

So was Germany's action political, or do they think they
have a good medical reason, even if only precautionary.

The latter.

They had 7 who had a severe problem with very low platelet count
after the vaccination, 3 of whom died. All of them on warfarin.

I think that's the only question.

Suggesting that for Italy it was political sound like
it was to harm the country where AZ is made,

Not really. They were the ones who refused to allow AZ exports,
because AZ wasn't delivering what they said they would.

I'm not saying that was the reason, only that calling
it political is based on the political pressure being
applied to whowever made Italy's decision,

That isnt what happened, he decided to do it himself.

but it sounds like it's the basic reason those
applying the pressure wanted that to be done.

He wanted it to keep more AZ for europe.

And afaik the reson they wanted it
to be done is medical, not political.

It was medical in the sense of supply.

The Italians - presumably they were Italian - have
some measure of faith in the German medical system

Their own medical system is quite decent, in some ways
better than the German system which was quite silly
initially about which vaccines were acceptable.

and if Germany thought it was worth pausing
then they thought so for Italy too.

In fact most of the EU paused. The
only major that didn't was the UK.

The inabilty to distinguish two (sometimes more) stages before
an action is completed has enabled those who say it's political
to describe the second stage while ignoring the first stage,
which is much more important, and the first stage is medical.

I don't know if those calling it political had some anti-government
or other bias, or they're just sloppy, or they hate political motives
and actions and they see them wherever it's conceivably possible.

One reason the second stage is less important, often unimportant,
because almost everything that government bodies and employees
do is political in one way or the other. The head of the Italian health
department calls a meeting and one who attends is the head of their
infectious disease department. Another is the head of the Corona
prevention project, and the chairman of the meeting says, Here's
the problem, I want you to look into this and get back to me with
a recommendation. That itself is political. If the President of Italy
calls the head of the health department and sternly says, GET ON
THIS, that might look even more political. If the President has made
up his mind based on news reports and says "I nt a pause and
investigations. DO IT", that is for sure political pressure, but his
reasons are medical, the bad medical reports he read in the
newspaper, and that's far more important.

In this case it was unilateral, no committee involved, not
even a committee endorsing the unilateral decision.

maybe to retaliate for an unrelated injury to Italy.

Nope.

Again, I'm not saying that was the reason, only that the use
of "political" makes it seem TO ME and others I'm sure that
the underlying reason was not medical, health-based, when I'm
pretty sure, and I think you said the same thing, it was medical.

Yes, it was definitely medical, those handful of CVT cases in Germany.

I don't think imitating Germany, even if caused by political pressure,
is political, certainly not if Italy doesn't know that Germany is wrong.

How long will it take to look at the data sufficiently? .

Just a couple. Norway has already decided that its better
to keep vaccinating because the risk when not vaccinated
is much worse than what has been seen with a tiny number
of those vaccinated who have had a blood clot problem.

And now the EU medical system has said that AZ isnt the
problem and that the suspension should stop because
the risk with AZ is much lower than with getting infected.

Trader has said it's more than a blood clot problem.

He's wrong with this AZ suspension.

OTOH someone on the radio said that the benefit still
outweighs the risk, and that would be true if A-Z were
the only vaccine, or infection was just about to enter
your home and you had not a bit of time to waste.

That last is silly given how long it takes for AZ to act.

Pfizer and Moderna act much more quickly.

Neither of those are likely to be true for most Italians, but
the 3rd reason the guy on the radio might be right is that
the other 3 vaccines ready now are not available aiui and
Italy might have to wait 6? months if it doesn't use the A-Z.

That is certainly true of the vaccine volume.

But if none of these 3 reasons applied, that the benefit
outweighs the risk is not a sufficient reason if you can
use another vaccine with the same benefit and less risk.

There isnt any evidence that AZ is a particular risk.

But it is known that it doesn't act as quickly and
that it isnt as effective as the Pfizer and Moderna.

The background rate of blot clots causing
medical problems is surprisingly high.

8% in fact will have a medically significant blood clot in their life.

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 09:15:29 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

Yeah, senile Rodent: keep teaching that stupid mickey mouse what he gets for
constantly feeding a sick trolling asshole like you! LOL

--
Marland addressing senile Rodent's tall stories:
"Do you really think people believe your stories you come up with to boost
your self esteem."
Message-ID:

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 16:20:39 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest...


same benefit and less risk.

The background rate of blot clots causing medical problems is surprisingly
high.

This post doesn't belong in this group.

--
Tekkie

"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 16:20:39 -0400, micky posted for all of us to
digest...


same benefit and less risk.

The background rate of blot clots causing medical problems is
surprisingly
high.

This post doesn't belong in this group.

Neither do your posts, hypocrite.

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 09:02:15 +1100, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


This post doesn't belong in this group.

Neither do your posts, hypocrite.

This coming from the constantly nymshifting sociopathic senile Australian
troll who got a website dedicated to his abnormal pathological trolling! G

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?
Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 09:02:15 +1100, %% posted for all of us to digest...


"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 16:20:39 -0400, micky posted for all of us to
digest...


same benefit and less risk.

The background rate of blot clots causing medical problems is
surprisingly
high.

This post doesn't belong in this group.

Neither do your posts, hypocrite.

HA HA Deficient

--
Tekkie