In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Mar 2021 20:25:27 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"micky" wrote in message
.. .
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 17 Mar 2021 04:35:47 +0000, Bod
wrote:

Italy has admitted its suspension of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was
a 'political' move, amid fury at several EU nations who have halted the
jabs over unproven fears of blood clots.

The revelation comes as the EU's medicines regulator confirmed there
is 'no indication' that the AstraZeneca vaccine is the cause of reported
blood clots.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/16/italy...9/?ito=cbshare

It continues: "Nicola Magrini, the head of Italian medicines regulator
AIFA, said politicians came under pressure to follow Germany and France
in calling off the jabs.

So was Germany's action political, or do they think they
have a good medical reason, even if only precautionary.

The latter.

I think that's the only question.

Suggesting that for Italy it was political sound like
it was to harm the country where AZ is made,

Not really. They were the ones who refused to allow AZ exports,
because AZ wasn't delivering what they said they would.

I'm not saying that was the reason, only that calling it political is
based on the political pressure being applied to whowever made Italy's
decision, but it sounds like it's the basic reason those applying the
pressure wanted that to be done. And afaik the reson they wanted it to
be done is medical, not political. The Italians - presumably they were
Italian - have some measure of faith in the German medical system and if
Germany thought it was worth pausing then they thought so for Italy too.

The inabilty to distinguish two (sometimes more) stages before an action
is completed has enabled those who say it's political to describe the
second stage while ignoring the first stage, which is much more
important, and the first stage is medical.

I don't know if those calling it political had some anti-government or
other bias, or they're just sloppy, or they hate political motives and
actions and they see them wherever it's conceivably possible.

One reason the second stage is less important, often unimportant,
because almost everything that government bodies and employees do is
political in one way or the other. The head of the Italian health
department calls a meeting and one who attends is the head of their
infectious disease department. Another is the head of the Corona
prevention project, and the chairman of the meeting says, Here's the
problem, I want you to look into this and get back to me with a
recommendation. That itself is political. If the President of Italy
calls the head of the health department and sternly says, GET ON THIS,
that might look even more political. If the President has made up his
mind based on news reports and says "I nt a pause and investigations. DO
IT", that is for sure political pressure, but his reasons are medical,
the bad medical reports he read in the newspaper, and that's far more
important.

maybe to retaliate for an unrelated injury to Italy.

Nope.

Again, I'm not saying that was the reason, only that the use of
"political" makes it seem TO ME and others I'm sure that the underlying
reason was not medical, health-based, when I'm pretty sure, and I think
you said the same thing, it was medical.


I don't think imitating Germany, even if caused by political pressure,
is political, certainly not if Italy doesn't know that Germany is wrong.

How long will it take to look at the data sufficiently? .

Just a couple. Norway has already decided that its better
to keep vaccinating because the risk when not vaccinated
is much worse than what has been seen with a tiny number
of those vaccinated who have had a blood clot problem.

Trader has said it's more than a blood clot problem.

OTOH someone on the radio said that the benefit still outweighs the
risk, and that would be true if A-Z were the only vaccine, or infection
was just about to enter your home and you had not a bit of time to
waste. Neither of those are likely to be true for most Italians, but the
3rd reason the guy on the radio might be right is that the other 3
vaccines ready now are not available aiui and Italy might have to wait
6? months if it doesn't use the A-Z.

But if none of these 3 reasons applied, that the benefit outweighs the
risk is not a sufficient reason if you can use another vaccine with the
same benefit and less risk.

The background rate of blot clots causing medical problems is surprisingly
high.