On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 00:28:05 -0000, rbowman wrote:

On 11/22/2020 04:58 PM, Frank wrote:
On 11/22/2020 6:40 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 11/22/20 2:23 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Cybertruck
WTF is that?! Looks like someone built it in a shed. Reminds me of
the Hammerhead Eagle Thrust - a car made out of scrap parts on Top Gear:
https://www.topgear.com/sites/defaul...?itok=P54mHinE

It wouldn't be much use in the central U.S. due to lack of
charging stations at least for now. Ugly as sin but not a ridiculous
price. The link is to Autotrader, a vehicle market place.
http://preview.alturl.com/cdr2c

I have seen videos such as these driving a Tesla cross country:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiC6bS6lPi0

The car will essentially plot your route from charging station to
charging station where you have to eat or sleep while charging.
What Tesla does not tell you is that electric cost is at least twice as
high using their charging stations.

Not seeing an EV in my future with the possible exception of an eBike, I
only skimmed the article but the takeaway was the charging costs were
higher the equivalent gasoline costs.

Found it:

https://carbuzz.com/news/charging-a-...a-car-with-gas

The article is about Australia so US costs may differ.

They're free to charge at public points in the UK, and dirt cheap if you charge at home. But the extra cost to buy the car is the same as the amount you save on fuel, so no point.

On 11/25/2020 11:46 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 00:28:05 -0000, rbowman wrote:

On 11/22/2020 04:58 PM, Frank wrote:
On 11/22/2020 6:40 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 11/22/20 2:23 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Cybertruck
WTF is that?!* Looks like someone built it in a shed.* Reminds me of
the Hammerhead Eagle Thrust - a car made out of scrap parts on Top
Gear:
https://www.topgear.com/sites/defaul...?itok=P54mHinE


******* It wouldn't be much use in the central U.S. due to lack of
charging stations at least for now.* Ugly as sin but not a ridiculous
price.* The link is to Autotrader, a vehicle market place.
http://preview.alturl.com/cdr2c

I have seen videos such as these driving a Tesla cross country:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiC6bS6lPi0

The car will essentially plot your route from charging station to
charging station where you have to eat or sleep while charging.
What Tesla does not tell you is that electric cost is at least twice as
high using their charging stations.

Not seeing an EV in my future with the possible exception of an eBike, I
only skimmed the article but the takeaway was the charging costs were
higher the equivalent gasoline costs.

Found it:

https://carbuzz.com/news/charging-a-...a-car-with-gas


The article is about Australia so US costs may differ.

They're free to charge at public points in the UK, and dirt cheap if you
charge at home.* But the extra cost to buy the car is the same as the
amount you save on fuel, so no point.

One of my big beefs is government mandating science and technology. I
think I here that no new internal combustion engine cars can be sold in
the UK after 2030. California is mandating it in 2030. Other states
will follow.

Sure electric vehicles do not pollute but their pollution from the extra
materials used and electric generation is hidden and overall probably worse.

On 11/25/2020 1:20 PM, Frank wrote:
On 11/25/2020 11:46 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 00:28:05 -0000, rbowman wrote:

On 11/22/2020 04:58 PM, Frank wrote:
On 11/22/2020 6:40 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 11/22/20 2:23 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Cybertruck
WTF is that?!* Looks like someone built it in a shed.* Reminds me of
the Hammerhead Eagle Thrust - a car made out of scrap parts on Top
Gear:
https://www.topgear.com/sites/defaul...?itok=P54mHinE


******* It wouldn't be much use in the central U.S. due to lack of
charging stations at least for now.* Ugly as sin but not a ridiculous
price.* The link is to Autotrader, a vehicle market place.
http://preview.alturl.com/cdr2c

I have seen videos such as these driving a Tesla cross country:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiC6bS6lPi0

The car will essentially plot your route from charging station to
charging station where you have to eat or sleep while charging.
What Tesla does not tell you is that electric cost is at least twice as
high using their charging stations.

Not seeing an EV in my future with the possible exception of an eBike, I
only skimmed the article but the takeaway was the charging costs were
higher the equivalent gasoline costs.

Found it:

https://carbuzz.com/news/charging-a-...a-car-with-gas


The article is about Australia so US costs may differ.

They're free to charge at public points in the UK, and dirt cheap if
you charge at home.* But the extra cost to buy the car is the same as
the amount you save on fuel, so no point.

One of my big beefs is government mandating science and technology.* I
think I here that no new internal combustion engine cars can be sold in
the UK after 2030.* California is mandating it in 2030.* Other states
will follow.

Sure electric vehicles do not pollute but their pollution from the extra
materials used and electric generation is hidden and overall probably
worse.

There has been a couple of articles about that. Many think it is just
moving the pollution, plus the battery problem.

If you can generate electricity with other than fossil fuels you remove
a lot of pollution from operation. You still have batteries to be
recycled, mining operations for the materials and such.

The IC engine is only about 25% to 30% efficient so even generating with
say, 85% efficient fuel use may help overall.

I imagine it will be better in the future. Right now, the cost of an EV
is still high and difficult to justify economically, can be a PITA on a
long trip as you have to take a while to charge.

On 25/11/2020 19:04:18, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

snip

The IC engine is only about 25% to 30% efficient so even generating with
say, 85% efficient fuel use may help overall.

Apart from fuel cells which can be higher than ICEs, what fuel did you
have in mind to have 85% efficiency?

On 11/25/2020 2:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/25/2020 1:20 PM, Frank wrote:
On 11/25/2020 11:46 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 00:28:05 -0000, rbowman wrote:

On 11/22/2020 04:58 PM, Frank wrote:
On 11/22/2020 6:40 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 11/22/20 2:23 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Cybertruck
WTF is that?!* Looks like someone built it in a shed.* Reminds me of
the Hammerhead Eagle Thrust - a car made out of scrap parts on
Top Gear:
https://www.topgear.com/sites/defaul...?itok=P54mHinE


******* It wouldn't be much use in the central U.S. due to lack of
charging stations at least for now.* Ugly as sin but not a ridiculous
price.* The link is to Autotrader, a vehicle market place.
http://preview.alturl.com/cdr2c

I have seen videos such as these driving a Tesla cross country:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiC6bS6lPi0

The car will essentially plot your route from charging station to
charging station where you have to eat or sleep while charging.
What Tesla does not tell you is that electric cost is at least
twice as
high using their charging stations.

Not seeing an EV in my future with the possible exception of an
eBike, I
only skimmed the article but the takeaway was the charging costs were
higher the equivalent gasoline costs.

Found it:

https://carbuzz.com/news/charging-a-...a-car-with-gas


The article is about Australia so US costs may differ.

They're free to charge at public points in the UK, and dirt cheap if
you charge at home.* But the extra cost to buy the car is the same as
the amount you save on fuel, so no point.

One of my big beefs is government mandating science and technology.* I
think I here that no new internal combustion engine cars can be sold
in the UK after 2030.* California is mandating it in 2030.* Other
states will follow.

Sure electric vehicles do not pollute but their pollution from the
extra materials used and electric generation is hidden and overall
probably worse.

There has been a couple of articles about that. Many think it is just
moving the pollution, plus the battery problem.

If you can generate electricity with other than fossil fuels you remove
a lot of pollution from operation.* You still have batteries to be
recycled, mining operations for the materials and such.

The IC engine is only about 25% to 30% efficient so even generating with
say, 85% efficient fuel use may help overall.

I imagine it will be better in the future.* Right now, the cost of an EV
is still high and difficult to justify economically, can be a PITA on a
long trip as you have to take a while to charge.

The proof to me would be when electric vehicles are cheaper than the
equivalent vehicles with internal combustion engines.

Nuclear might be the way to go but I cannot see much expansion. The
Japan incident was apparently worse than Chernobyl but went out to sea.

Wind and solar are just pushing the pollution elsewhere.

Efficiency in internal combustion appears to have reached its limit for
now but should be possible.

Funny thing I just heard was that a here brewery was having trouble
finding a supply of carbon dioxide. Might be anticipation of all the
dry ice needed for vaccine refrigeration. This, when we are wallowing
in carbon dioxide pollution What will be the environmental impact
when all gas stations are replaced with charging stations?

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 13:20:43 -0500, REAL dumb Frankie Boi blathered again:

One of my big beefs is

Who gives a ****, troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE? Ah, yeah, the unwashed troll
whom you love sucking off! BG

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 00:28:05 -0000, rbowman wrote:

On 11/22/2020 04:58 PM, Frank wrote:
On 11/22/2020 6:40 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 11/22/20 2:23 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Cybertruck
WTF is that?! Looks like someone built it in a shed. Reminds me of
the Hammerhead Eagle Thrust - a car made out of scrap parts on Top
Gear:
https://www.topgear.com/sites/defaul...?itok=P54mHinE


It wouldn't be much use in the central U.S. due to lack of
charging stations at least for now. Ugly as sin but not a ridiculous
price. The link is to Autotrader, a vehicle market place.
http://preview.alturl.com/cdr2c

I have seen videos such as these driving a Tesla cross country:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiC6bS6lPi0

The car will essentially plot your route from charging station to
charging station where you have to eat or sleep while charging.
What Tesla does not tell you is that electric cost is at least twice as
high using their charging stations.

Not seeing an EV in my future with the possible exception of an eBike, I
only skimmed the article but the takeaway was the charging costs were
higher the equivalent gasoline costs.

Found it:

https://carbuzz.com/news/charging-a-...a-car-with-gas


The article is about Australia so US costs may differ.

They're free to charge at public points in the UK, and dirt cheap if you
charge at home. But the extra cost to buy the car is the same as the
amount you save on fuel, so no point.

By the time you can afford an electric car, you'll have one
of these in the back yard.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.5807746.160575622...allan-adam.jpg

Paul

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:39:36 -0500, Paul, the demented, troll-feeding,
senile asshole, blathered again:

By the time you can afford an electric car,

By the time you've realized that you've become an idiotic troll-feeding
senile asshole, you'll be dead, senile twit! BG

On 11/25/2020 2:18 PM, Fredxx wrote:
On 25/11/2020 19:04:18, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

snip

The IC engine is only about 25% to 30% efficient so even generating
with say, 85% efficient fuel use may help overall.

Apart from fuel cells which can be higher than ICEs, what fuel did you
have in mind to have 85% efficiency?

Not so much the fuel but what burns it to power the generator. Some
boilers can be that efficient. Electricity has relatively little loss
getting to the end user. If you use oil to run a boiler at 85%, lose a
little in transmission, the car may be operating at 80% of the energy
instead of 25%.

On 25/11/2020 20:33:20, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/25/2020 2:18 PM, Fredxx wrote:
On 25/11/2020 19:04:18, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

snip

The IC engine is only about 25% to 30% efficient so even generating
with say, 85% efficient fuel use may help overall.

Apart from fuel cells which can be higher than ICEs, what fuel did you
have in mind to have 85% efficiency?

Not so much the fuel but what burns it to power the generator.* Some
boilers can be that efficient.

Lets stop there. Are we talking of boilers or fuel used in association
with prime movers? They are world apart.

I can also assure you some boilers are far higher than that.

Electricity has relatively little loss
getting to the end user.* If you use oil to run a boiler at 85%, lose a
little in transmission,

What has a boiler got to do with this?

the car may be operating at 80% of the energy
instead of 25%.

I really suggest you lookup Carnot and the Second Law of Thermodynamics
before mentioning boiler and transmission in the same sentence. This
might assist in a more complete understanding of thermal engines:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot...thermodynamics)
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_heat_engine

which explains why power stations are rarely much above 40% efficiency,
and that is before electrical power transmission, charging regimes for
batteries, motor and transmission efficiencies as well as lugging a
tonne of batteries around.

On 11/25/2020 3:57 PM, Fredxx wrote:
On 25/11/2020 20:33:20, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/25/2020 2:18 PM, Fredxx wrote:
On 25/11/2020 19:04:18, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

snip

The IC engine is only about 25% to 30% efficient so even generating
with say, 85% efficient fuel use may help overall.

Apart from fuel cells which can be higher than ICEs, what fuel did
you have in mind to have 85% efficiency?

Not so much the fuel but what burns it to power the generator.* Some
boilers can be that efficient.

Lets stop there. Are we talking of boilers or fuel used in association
with prime movers? They are world apart.

I can also assure you some boilers are far higher than that.

No ****, this is just a crude comparison for conversation, not a
comparison of boiler types.


What has a boiler got to do with this?

Boilers make steam that turns generators to make electricity.


the car may be operating at 80% of the energy instead of 25%.

I really suggest you lookup Carnot and the Second Law of Thermodynamics
before mentioning boiler and transmission in the same sentence. This
might assist in a more complete understanding of thermal engines:

Not interested in the fine details. The numbers are just to show that
electricity has the potential to be more efficient. If you want to do a
full analysis, be my guest, I'll at least look at it.

Since we are looking at transmission efficiency be sure to look at the
losses in gasoline too. It may be roughly 25% in an ICE but still has
to be transported using fossil fuel in ships, tankers, and pumping so
for every BTU of energy extracted from the earth there are losses along
the way to refine and move it to the point of use.

On 25/11/2020 21:32, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/25/2020 3:57 PM, Fredxx wrote:
On 25/11/2020 20:33:20, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/25/2020 2:18 PM, Fredxx wrote:
On 25/11/2020 19:04:18, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

snip

The IC engine is only about 25% to 30% efficient so even generating
with say, 85% efficient fuel use may help overall.

Apart from fuel cells which can be higher than ICEs, what fuel did
you have in mind to have 85% efficiency?

Not so much the fuel but what burns it to power the generator.* Some
boilers can be that efficient.

Lets stop there. Are we talking of boilers or fuel used in association
with prime movers? They are world apart.

I can also assure you some boilers are far higher than that.

No ****, this is just a crude comparison for conversation, not a
comparison of boiler types.


What has a boiler got to do with this?

Boilers make steam that turns generators to make electricity.

It's going from heat to motion that is inefficient.

I really suggest you lookup Carnot and the Second Law of
Thermodynamics before mentioning boiler and transmission in the same
sentence. This might assist in a more complete understanding of
thermal engines:

Not interested in the fine details.* The numbers are just to show that
electricity has the potential to be more efficient.* If you want to do a
full analysis, be my guest, I'll at least look at it.

It's not a matter of fine details. Any heat engine - a device for
converting heat into motion - has a maximum efficiency given by:

1 - (Tc / Th)

where where Tc and Th are the absolute temperatures of the cold and hot
reservoirs, respectively, or

(Th -Tc) / Th

- which amounts to the same thing; so you want the biggest possible
difference in temperatures between the input and output. This is why an
ICE is more efficient than a simple steam engine as the temperatures are
so much more.

Once you've got motion you can convert it into electricity very efficiently.

Heat is a "low grade" energy because it consists of the random motion of
molecules; mechanical (and electrical) energy is "high grade" because it
is directed.

--
Max Demian

On 11/25/2020 09:46 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
They're free to charge at public points in the UK, and dirt cheap if you
charge at home. But the extra cost to buy the car is the same as the
amount you save on fuel, so no point.

TANSTAAFL

On 11/25/2020 12:39 PM, Paul wrote:

By the time you can afford an electric car, you'll have one
of these in the back yard.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.5807746.160575622...allan-adam.jpg


And that's about what it would look like too... I get enough exercise
shoveling the driveway without shoveling out the solar farm.

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 19:40:54 -0700, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


And that's about what it would look like too... I get enough exercise
shoveling the driveway without shoveling out the solar farm.

Be honest, YOU get enough exercise just by babbling and gossiping endlessly,
lowbrowwoman! G

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 19:33:48 -0700, blowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


TANSTAAFL

Bull****, he gets you to suck him off for free, every time he wants to be
sucked off by you, blowwoman!