On 3/15/18 9:13 PM, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 18:27, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 3/15/18 6:27 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 6:09:18 AM UTC-4, Oumati Asami
wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:38, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 10:38:55 PM UTC-4, Oumati
Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black,
two neutral, and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized. If
the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was
energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

incoming downlight a)
================(black)------------------ b)
================(GROUND)---------------- c)
----------------(blue)------------------

IDK why a house anywhere would have 3 phase power. But there
is a wire for the light, a wire for the fan, two neutrals, so
what's the issue?

Sorry, the diagram was wrong. I mistakenly labelled ground as
neutral. It is now corrected.

When both fan and light are on, both the blue and black wires
are energized.

So, again, you have a hot for the light, a hot for the fan and a
neutral. What's the issue?

Is the equipment ground being used as the neutral? It must be tied
to the neutral upstream somewhere. That's illegal at least in my
world.

How do I test if ground is used as neutral?

The main breaker is a GFIC. I have experienced unexplained tripping.
Would that have anything to do with ground being used as neutral?

Just by looking, I suppose. Assuming the motor has two wires,
one wire is the hot wire feeding the motor. What is the other, second, wire
coming out of the motor connected to? It should be hooked to a neutral
eventually going back to your panel. It shouldn't be hooked to any
metal in the motor housing or frame.
The same thing applies to the light. A hot wire feeding it, a
neutral going back to the panel, and a separate ground wire connecting
metal to metal in the various boxes containing lights, outlets, etc.
The easiest way to cheat would probably be to connect the second
wires out
of the devices to the metal. Then the ground would be carrying the
current that
should be carried by the neutral.

On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:13:37 PM UTC-4, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 18:27, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 3/15/18 6:27 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 6:09:18 AM UTC-4, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:38, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 10:38:55 PM UTC-4, Oumati Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black, two
neutral,
and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized.
If the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was
energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* incomingÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* downlight
a) ================(black)------------------
b) ================(GROUND)----------------
c) ----------------(blue)------------------

IDK why a house anywhere would have 3 phase power. But there is a
wire for the light, a wire for the fan, two neutrals, so what's the
issue?

Sorry, the diagram was wrong. I mistakenly labelled ground as neutral..
It is now corrected.

When both fan and light are on, both the blue and black wires are
energized.

So, again, you have a hot for the light, a hot for the fan and a
neutral. What's the issue?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Is the equipment ground being used as the neutral?Â* It must be
tied to the neutral
upstream somewhere.Â*Â*Â* That's illegal at least in my world.

How do I test if ground is used as neutral?

The main breaker is a GFIC. I have experienced unexplained tripping.
Would that have anything to do with ground being used as neutral?

If the ground was used as the neutral, it would trip for sure when the light or fan was turned on. It would probably trip even without being turned on.. Like I said, the wire might be green, but it could be otherwise correctly used as the neutral.

On 16/03/2018 14:59, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 2:23:03 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 12:05, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 9:45:19 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 03:27, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 5:11:36 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:13, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:38:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black, two neutral,
and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized.
If the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

incoming downlight
a) ================(black)------------------
b) ================(neutral)----------------
c) ----------------(blue)------------------

Knowing which country you reside in would help. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

I didn't think it matters. I'm in Myanmar if this helps.


I'm guessing the normal power supplied to your electrical outlets and light fixtures is 250vac 50hz. Most folks who post here are in North America where the power supplied to regular electrical outlets and light fixtures is 120vac 60hz. Larger appliances will use 240vac. I had an instructor once tell the class,"Electrons are electrons." Meaning electrons are going to go where they want so you better guide them.^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

I think it is 230 v though I did not test.

I believe someone posted a link showing that it's 230vac 50hz used in your country. I found it. ^_^

http://treehouse.ofb.net/go/en/voltage/Myanmar

I imagine the wire colors are different and wire sizes are much smaller than what is used in North America. I did some modifications to some portable housing units manufactured in Australia and the wiring was stranded where the wire used here is normally solid for use in wiring run to light fixtures and electrical outlets. The question I have is, does the power supplied to your lighting circuits and electrical outlets read 230vac from hot to neutral/ground? Is there a pair of hot wires at each outlet or is there just one hot wire? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster


I had checked several outlets before and found them containing three
wires (LNG) and being 230 V. I did not check the particular light and
fan in question. I think they are 230 V also.

At first, I thought maybe the fan shared the neutral with the light. But
what happens when both light and fan are on?


It shouldn't be a problem for the light and fan to share the same neutral and ground. If they are switched separately using the same Line/Hot wire, you want to use the same neutral. Here in North America, a bathroom sometimes has two separate switches for the light and exhaust fan but there is usually only one switch and the light/lights and fan are on at the same time. It's not rocket surgery. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Neutral Monster

Just want to make sure I understand what you said. When both the fan and
light are on, the blue wire and one of the black wire (black one) are
energized. Does the other black wire (black two) serve as the neutral
for both the fan and the light?

When only the light is on, is the black two also energized (black one is
the neutral for the light and black one and two are connected together)?

On 16/03/2018 16:02, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 3:23:03 AM UTC-4, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 12:05, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 9:45:19 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 03:27, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 5:11:36 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:13, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:38:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black, two neutral,
and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized.
If the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

incoming downlight
a) ================(black)------------------
b) ================(neutral)----------------
c) ----------------(blue)------------------

Knowing which country you reside in would help. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

I didn't think it matters. I'm in Myanmar if this helps.


I'm guessing the normal power supplied to your electrical outlets and light fixtures is 250vac 50hz. Most folks who post here are in North America where the power supplied to regular electrical outlets and light fixtures is 120vac 60hz. Larger appliances will use 240vac. I had an instructor once tell the class,"Electrons are electrons." Meaning electrons are going to go where they want so you better guide them.^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

I think it is 230 v though I did not test.

I believe someone posted a link showing that it's 230vac 50hz used in your country. I found it. ^_^

http://treehouse.ofb.net/go/en/voltage/Myanmar

I imagine the wire colors are different and wire sizes are much smaller than what is used in North America. I did some modifications to some portable housing units manufactured in Australia and the wiring was stranded where the wire used here is normally solid for use in wiring run to light fixtures and electrical outlets. The question I have is, does the power supplied to your lighting circuits and electrical outlets read 230vac from hot to neutral/ground? Is there a pair of hot wires at each outlet or is there just one hot wire? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster


I had checked several outlets before and found them containing three
wires (LNG) and being 230 V. I did not check the particular light and
fan in question. I think they are 230 V also.

At first, I thought maybe the fan shared the neutral with the light. But
what happens when both light and fan are on?

You can have an unlimited number of devices sharing a neutral. If you have a circuit with 8 lights, there is only one neutral.


Just want to make sure I understand what you said. When both the fan and
the light are one, electricity goes from the blue wire (the light) to
the black wires (they are connected). At the same time, electricity also
goes from the fan to the black wires. Correct?

When only the light is on, does the electricity goes from the blue to
the blacks and back to the fan?

On 16/03/2018 17:15, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 3/15/18 9:13 PM, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 18:27, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 3/15/18 6:27 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 6:09:18 AM UTC-4, Oumati Asami
wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:38, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 10:38:55 PM UTC-4, Oumati
Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black,
two neutral, and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized. If
the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was
Â*energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

incomingÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* downlight a)
================(black)------------------ b)
================(GROUND)---------------- c)
----------------(blue)------------------

IDK why a house anywhere would have 3 phase power. But there
is a wire for the light, a wire for the fan, two neutrals, so
what's the issue?

Sorry, the diagram was wrong. I mistakenly labelled ground as
neutral. It is now corrected.

When both fan and light are on, both the blue and black wires
are energized.

So, again, you have a hot for the light, a hot for the fan and a
Â*neutral. What's the issue?

Is the equipment ground being used as the neutral?Â* It must be tied
to the neutral upstream somewhere.Â*Â*Â* That's illegal at least in my
world.

How do I test if ground is used as neutral?

The main breaker is a GFIC. I have experienced unexplained tripping.
Â*Would that have anything to do with ground being used as neutral?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Just by looking, I suppose.Â*Â* Assuming the motor has two wires,
one wire is the hot wire feeding the motor. What is the other, second, wire
coming out of the motor connected to?Â*Â* It should be hooked to a neutral
eventually going back to your panel.Â* It shouldn't be hooked to any
metal in the motor housing or frame.

I am not sure/don't think both black wires are from the fan. When I
separated the two black wires and turned on the fan, one of the black
wire was energized and the fan wasn't turning. That's all I know. the
other black may serve as the neutral for both the fan and the light.

Â*Â* The same thing applies to the light.Â*Â* A hot wire feeding it, a
neutral going back to the panel,Â* and a separate ground wire connecting
metal to metal in the various boxes containing lights, outlets, etc.
Â*Â* The easiest way to cheat would probably be to connect the second
wires out
of the devices to the metal.Â* Then the ground would be carrying the
current that
should be carried by the neutral.

I had checked several outlets before and found them containing three
wires (LNG) and being 230 V. I did not check the particular light and
fan in question. I think they are 230 V also.

At first, I thought maybe the fan shared the neutral with the light. But
what happens when both light and fan are on?

You can have an unlimited number of devices sharing a neutral.
If you have a circuit with 8 lights, there is only one neutral.


Just want to make sure I understand what you said. When both the fan and
the light are one, electricity goes from the blue wire (the light) to
the black wires (they are connected). At the same time, electricity also
goes from the fan to the black wires. Correct?

When only the light is on, does the electricity goes from the blue to
the blacks and back to the fan?


Do tell us about all the switches associated with the two devices.
... any 3-way switches ? pull-strings ?
John T.

On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 8:15:37 AM UTC-4, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 14:59, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 2:23:03 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 12:05, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 9:45:19 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 03:27, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 5:11:36 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:13, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:38:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black, two neutral,
and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized.
If the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

incoming downlight
a) ================(black)------------------
b) ================(neutral)----------------
c) ----------------(blue)------------------

Knowing which country you reside in would help. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

I didn't think it matters. I'm in Myanmar if this helps.


I'm guessing the normal power supplied to your electrical outlets and light fixtures is 250vac 50hz. Most folks who post here are in North America where the power supplied to regular electrical outlets and light fixtures is 120vac 60hz. Larger appliances will use 240vac. I had an instructor once tell the class,"Electrons are electrons." Meaning electrons are going to go where they want so you better guide them.^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

I think it is 230 v though I did not test.

I believe someone posted a link showing that it's 230vac 50hz used in your country. I found it. ^_^

http://treehouse.ofb.net/go/en/voltage/Myanmar

I imagine the wire colors are different and wire sizes are much smaller than what is used in North America. I did some modifications to some portable housing units manufactured in Australia and the wiring was stranded where the wire used here is normally solid for use in wiring run to light fixtures and electrical outlets. The question I have is, does the power supplied to your lighting circuits and electrical outlets read 230vac from hot to neutral/ground? Is there a pair of hot wires at each outlet or is there just one hot wire? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster


I had checked several outlets before and found them containing three
wires (LNG) and being 230 V. I did not check the particular light and
fan in question. I think they are 230 V also.

At first, I thought maybe the fan shared the neutral with the light. But
what happens when both light and fan are on?


It shouldn't be a problem for the light and fan to share the same neutral and ground. If they are switched separately using the same Line/Hot wire, you want to use the same neutral. Here in North America, a bathroom sometimes has two separate switches for the light and exhaust fan but there is usually only one switch and the light/lights and fan are on at the same time.. It's not rocket surgery. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Neutral Monster

Just want to make sure I understand what you said. When both the fan and
light are on, the blue wire and one of the black wire (black one) are
energized. Does the other black wire (black two) serve as the neutral
for both the fan and the light?

I don't know because I can't see what's connected to the other wire
at the light, the other wire at the fan. Whatever wire that is,
that's what's serving as the neutral.




When only the light is on, is the black two also energized (black one is
the neutral for the light and black one and two are connected together)?

On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 7:15:37 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 14:59, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 2:23:03 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 12:05, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 9:45:19 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 03:27, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 5:11:36 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:13, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:38:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black, two neutral,
and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized.
If the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

incoming downlight
a) ================(black)------------------
b) ================(neutral)----------------
c) ----------------(blue)------------------

Knowing which country you reside in would help. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

I didn't think it matters. I'm in Myanmar if this helps.


I'm guessing the normal power supplied to your electrical outlets and light fixtures is 250vac 50hz. Most folks who post here are in North America where the power supplied to regular electrical outlets and light fixtures is 120vac 60hz. Larger appliances will use 240vac. I had an instructor once tell the class,"Electrons are electrons." Meaning electrons are going to go where they want so you better guide them.^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

I think it is 230 v though I did not test.

I believe someone posted a link showing that it's 230vac 50hz used in your country. I found it. ^_^

http://treehouse.ofb.net/go/en/voltage/Myanmar

I imagine the wire colors are different and wire sizes are much smaller than what is used in North America. I did some modifications to some portable housing units manufactured in Australia and the wiring was stranded where the wire used here is normally solid for use in wiring run to light fixtures and electrical outlets. The question I have is, does the power supplied to your lighting circuits and electrical outlets read 230vac from hot to neutral/ground? Is there a pair of hot wires at each outlet or is there just one hot wire? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster


I had checked several outlets before and found them containing three
wires (LNG) and being 230 V. I did not check the particular light and
fan in question. I think they are 230 V also.

At first, I thought maybe the fan shared the neutral with the light. But
what happens when both light and fan are on?


It shouldn't be a problem for the light and fan to share the same neutral and ground. If they are switched separately using the same Line/Hot wire, you want to use the same neutral. Here in North America, a bathroom sometimes has two separate switches for the light and exhaust fan but there is usually only one switch and the light/lights and fan are on at the same time.. It's not rocket surgery. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Neutral Monster

Just want to make sure I understand what you said. When both the fan and
light are on, the blue wire and one of the black wire (black one) are
energized. Does the other black wire (black two) serve as the neutral
for both the fan and the light?

When only the light is on, is the black two also energized (black one is
the neutral for the light and black one and two are connected together)?

Remember that the flow of power is from whatever wire is energized/hot to the neutral. So if you have two switches connected to the hot wire, you can control two devices. One side of the device is hooked to the neutral and the other to the switched leg. What I'd like to know is if the black wire is your power feed and hot all the time? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster

On 16/03/2018 19:46, wrote:


I had checked several outlets before and found them containing three
wires (LNG) and being 230 V. I did not check the particular light and
fan in question. I think they are 230 V also.

At first, I thought maybe the fan shared the neutral with the light. But
what happens when both light and fan are on?

You can have an unlimited number of devices sharing a neutral.
If you have a circuit with 8 lights, there is only one neutral.


Just want to make sure I understand what you said. When both the fan and
the light are one, electricity goes from the blue wire (the light) to
the black wires (they are connected). At the same time, electricity also
goes from the fan to the black wires. Correct?

When only the light is on, does the electricity goes from the blue to
the blacks and back to the fan?


Do tell us about all the switches associated with the two devices.
.. any 3-way switches ? pull-strings ?
John T.


Not sure how to describe them. That are just simple switches on the
wall, not 3-way. You flip one switch to turn on/off the fan, another
switch to turn on/off the light.

On 16/03/2018 21:03, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 7:15:37 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 14:59, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 2:23:03 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 12:05, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 9:45:19 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 03:27, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 5:11:36 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:13, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:38:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black, two neutral,
and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized.
If the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

incoming downlight
a) ================(black)------------------
b) ================(neutral)----------------
c) ----------------(blue)------------------

Knowing which country you reside in would help. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

I didn't think it matters. I'm in Myanmar if this helps.


I'm guessing the normal power supplied to your electrical outlets and light fixtures is 250vac 50hz. Most folks who post here are in North America where the power supplied to regular electrical outlets and light fixtures is 120vac 60hz. Larger appliances will use 240vac. I had an instructor once tell the class,"Electrons are electrons." Meaning electrons are going to go where they want so you better guide them.^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

I think it is 230 v though I did not test.

I believe someone posted a link showing that it's 230vac 50hz used in your country. I found it. ^_^

http://treehouse.ofb.net/go/en/voltage/Myanmar

I imagine the wire colors are different and wire sizes are much smaller than what is used in North America. I did some modifications to some portable housing units manufactured in Australia and the wiring was stranded where the wire used here is normally solid for use in wiring run to light fixtures and electrical outlets. The question I have is, does the power supplied to your lighting circuits and electrical outlets read 230vac from hot to neutral/ground? Is there a pair of hot wires at each outlet or is there just one hot wire? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster


I had checked several outlets before and found them containing three
wires (LNG) and being 230 V. I did not check the particular light and
fan in question. I think they are 230 V also.

At first, I thought maybe the fan shared the neutral with the light. But
what happens when both light and fan are on?


It shouldn't be a problem for the light and fan to share the same neutral and ground. If they are switched separately using the same Line/Hot wire, you want to use the same neutral. Here in North America, a bathroom sometimes has two separate switches for the light and exhaust fan but there is usually only one switch and the light/lights and fan are on at the same time. It's not rocket surgery. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Neutral Monster

Just want to make sure I understand what you said. When both the fan and
light are on, the blue wire and one of the black wire (black one) are
energized. Does the other black wire (black two) serve as the neutral
for both the fan and the light?

When only the light is on, is the black two also energized (black one is
the neutral for the light and black one and two are connected together)?

Remember that the flow of power is from whatever wire is energized/hot to the neutral. So if you have two switches connected to the hot wire, you can control two devices. One side of the device is hooked to the neutral and the other to the switched leg. What I'd like to know is if the black wire is your power feed and hot all the time? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster

Different countries use different color scheme. So, black is not always
hot here. I don't know what color scheme is used in Myanmar. In shop, I
see blue, yellow, red, brown, and other colors. So, don't assume black
is hot.

When the fan is turned on, one of the two black wires is hot, i.e. this
black wire is the neutral of the fan and controlled by the fan switch.
The other black wire serves as the neutral (meaning it goes to the
panel). The electricity flows from the fan switch through the fan to
this black wire then to the other black wire (neutral) and ultimately,
the panel.

When the light is on, the black neutral wire is still the neutral and
the electricity flows from the light switch to the blue wire through the
black neutral wire to the panel. In this case, the black wire from the
fan is hot, correct?

When both fan and light are on, electricity from the blue wire and the
black fan wire go through the black neutral wire to the panel, correct?

On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 8:41:08 PM UTC-4, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 21:03, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 7:15:37 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 14:59, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 2:23:03 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 12:05, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 9:45:19 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 03:27, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 5:11:36 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:13, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:38:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black, two neutral,
and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized.
If the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

incoming downlight
a) ================(black)------------------
b) ================(neutral)----------------
c) ----------------(blue)------------------

Knowing which country you reside in would help. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

I didn't think it matters. I'm in Myanmar if this helps.


I'm guessing the normal power supplied to your electrical outlets and light fixtures is 250vac 50hz. Most folks who post here are in North America where the power supplied to regular electrical outlets and light fixtures is 120vac 60hz. Larger appliances will use 240vac. I had an instructor once tell the class,"Electrons are electrons." Meaning electrons are going to go where they want so you better guide them.^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

I think it is 230 v though I did not test.

I believe someone posted a link showing that it's 230vac 50hz used in your country. I found it. ^_^

http://treehouse.ofb.net/go/en/voltage/Myanmar

I imagine the wire colors are different and wire sizes are much smaller than what is used in North America. I did some modifications to some portable housing units manufactured in Australia and the wiring was stranded where the wire used here is normally solid for use in wiring run to light fixtures and electrical outlets. The question I have is, does the power supplied to your lighting circuits and electrical outlets read 230vac from hot to neutral/ground? Is there a pair of hot wires at each outlet or is there just one hot wire? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster


I had checked several outlets before and found them containing three
wires (LNG) and being 230 V. I did not check the particular light and
fan in question. I think they are 230 V also.

At first, I thought maybe the fan shared the neutral with the light. But
what happens when both light and fan are on?


It shouldn't be a problem for the light and fan to share the same neutral and ground. If they are switched separately using the same Line/Hot wire, you want to use the same neutral. Here in North America, a bathroom sometimes has two separate switches for the light and exhaust fan but there is usually only one switch and the light/lights and fan are on at the same time. It's not rocket surgery. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Neutral Monster

Just want to make sure I understand what you said. When both the fan and
light are on, the blue wire and one of the black wire (black one) are
energized. Does the other black wire (black two) serve as the neutral
for both the fan and the light?

When only the light is on, is the black two also energized (black one is
the neutral for the light and black one and two are connected together)?

Remember that the flow of power is from whatever wire is energized/hot to the neutral. So if you have two switches connected to the hot wire, you can control two devices. One side of the device is hooked to the neutral and the other to the switched leg. What I'd like to know is if the black wire is your power feed and hot all the time? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster

Different countries use different color scheme. So, black is not always
hot here. I don't know what color scheme is used in Myanmar. In shop, I
see blue, yellow, red, brown, and other colors. So, don't assume black
is hot.

When the fan is turned on, one of the two black wires is hot, i.e. this
black wire is the neutral of the fan and controlled by the fan switch.

No, that wire is a switched hot.




The other black wire serves as the neutral (meaning it goes to the
panel).

The electricity flows from the fan switch through the fan to
this black wire then to the other black wire (neutral) and ultimately,
the panel.

Ok



When the light is on, the black neutral wire is still the neutral and
the electricity flows from the light switch to the blue wire through the
black neutral wire to the panel. In this case, the black wire from the
fan is hot, correct?


IDK what black wire you're talking about.



When both fan and light are on, electricity from the blue wire and the
black fan wire go through the black neutral wire to the panel, correct?

Yes, one neutral serves both.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 07:11:04 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

On 16/03/2018 21:03, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 7:15:37 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 14:59, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 2:23:03 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 12:05, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 9:45:19 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 03:27, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 5:11:36 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:13, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:38:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black, two neutral,
and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized.
If the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

incoming downlight
a) ================(black)------------------
b) ================(neutral)----------------
c) ----------------(blue)------------------

Knowing which country you reside in would help. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

I didn't think it matters. I'm in Myanmar if this helps.


I'm guessing the normal power supplied to your electrical outlets and light fixtures is 250vac 50hz. Most folks who post here are in North America where the power supplied to regular electrical outlets and light fixtures is 120vac 60hz. Larger appliances will use 240vac. I had an instructor once tell the class,"Electrons are electrons." Meaning electrons are going to go where they want so you better guide them.^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

I think it is 230 v though I did not test.

I believe someone posted a link showing that it's 230vac 50hz used in your country. I found it. ^_^

http://treehouse.ofb.net/go/en/voltage/Myanmar

I imagine the wire colors are different and wire sizes are much smaller than what is used in North America. I did some modifications to some portable housing units manufactured in Australia and the wiring was stranded where the wire used here is normally solid for use in wiring run to light fixtures and electrical outlets. The question I have is, does the power supplied to your lighting circuits and electrical outlets read 230vac from hot to neutral/ground? Is there a pair of hot wires at each outlet or is there just one hot wire? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster


I had checked several outlets before and found them containing three
wires (LNG) and being 230 V. I did not check the particular light and
fan in question. I think they are 230 V also.

At first, I thought maybe the fan shared the neutral with the light. But
what happens when both light and fan are on?


It shouldn't be a problem for the light and fan to share the same neutral and ground. If they are switched separately using the same Line/Hot wire, you want to use the same neutral. Here in North America, a bathroom sometimes has two separate switches for the light and exhaust fan but there is usually only one switch and the light/lights and fan are on at the same time. It's not rocket surgery. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Neutral Monster

Just want to make sure I understand what you said. When both the fan and
light are on, the blue wire and one of the black wire (black one) are
energized. Does the other black wire (black two) serve as the neutral
for both the fan and the light?

When only the light is on, is the black two also energized (black one is
the neutral for the light and black one and two are connected together)?

Remember that the flow of power is from whatever wire is energized/hot to the neutral. So if you have two switches connected to the hot wire, you can control two devices. One side of the device is hooked to the neutral and the other to the switched leg. What I'd like to know is if the black wire is your power feed and hot all the time? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster

Different countries use different color scheme. So, black is not always
hot here. I don't know what color scheme is used in Myanmar. In shop, I
see blue, yellow, red, brown, and other colors. So, don't assume black
is hot.

When the fan is turned on, one of the two black wires is hot, i.e. this
black wire is the neutral of the fan and controlled by the fan switch.
The other black wire serves as the neutral (meaning it goes to the
panel). The electricity flows from the fan switch through the fan to
this black wire then to the other black wire (neutral) and ultimately,
the panel.

When the light is on, the black neutral wire is still the neutral and
the electricity flows from the light switch to the blue wire through the
black neutral wire to the panel. In this case, the black wire from the
fan is hot, correct?

When both fan and light are on, electricity from the blue wire and the
black fan wire go through the black neutral wire to the panel, correct?

Maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to be confused by the term neutral. Most
people discuss power coming from the hot wire, going through the
device (fan or light), and then returning via the neutral. In normal
situations, switches are placed in the hot wires, not the neutrals.

blue wire
-----------------------------o switch o----------------\
hot (or hots) from panel to switches !
-----------------------------o switch o------\ !
! !
Fan Light
! !
-----------------------------------------------o---------/
neutral (back to panel)

That was my crude attempt at a drawing. It looks OK to me, but you
may see it in a different font. I purposely left out colors except
for the blue which seems pretty clear.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 09:56:25 -0400, Pat wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 07:11:04 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

On 16/03/2018 21:03, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 7:15:37 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 14:59, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 2:23:03 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 12:05, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 9:45:19 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 03:27, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 5:11:36 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:13, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:38:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black, two neutral,
and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized.
If the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

incoming downlight
a) ================(black)------------------
b) ================(neutral)----------------
c) ----------------(blue)------------------

Knowing which country you reside in would help. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

I didn't think it matters. I'm in Myanmar if this helps.


I'm guessing the normal power supplied to your electrical outlets and light fixtures is 250vac 50hz. Most folks who post here are in North America where the power supplied to regular electrical outlets and light fixtures is 120vac 60hz. Larger appliances will use 240vac. I had an instructor once tell the class,"Electrons are electrons." Meaning electrons are going to go where they want so you better guide them.^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

I think it is 230 v though I did not test.

I believe someone posted a link showing that it's 230vac 50hz used in your country. I found it. ^_^

http://treehouse.ofb.net/go/en/voltage/Myanmar

I imagine the wire colors are different and wire sizes are much smaller than what is used in North America. I did some modifications to some portable housing units manufactured in Australia and the wiring was stranded where the wire used here is normally solid for use in wiring run to light fixtures and electrical outlets. The question I have is, does the power supplied to your lighting circuits and electrical outlets read 230vac from hot to neutral/ground? Is there a pair of hot wires at each outlet or is there just one hot wire? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster


I had checked several outlets before and found them containing three
wires (LNG) and being 230 V. I did not check the particular light and
fan in question. I think they are 230 V also.

At first, I thought maybe the fan shared the neutral with the light. But
what happens when both light and fan are on?


It shouldn't be a problem for the light and fan to share the same neutral and ground. If they are switched separately using the same Line/Hot wire, you want to use the same neutral. Here in North America, a bathroom sometimes has two separate switches for the light and exhaust fan but there is usually only one switch and the light/lights and fan are on at the same time. It's not rocket surgery. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Neutral Monster

Just want to make sure I understand what you said. When both the fan and
light are on, the blue wire and one of the black wire (black one) are
energized. Does the other black wire (black two) serve as the neutral
for both the fan and the light?

When only the light is on, is the black two also energized (black one is
the neutral for the light and black one and two are connected together)?

Remember that the flow of power is from whatever wire is energized/hot to the neutral. So if you have two switches connected to the hot wire, you can control two devices. One side of the device is hooked to the neutral and the other to the switched leg. What I'd like to know is if the black wire is your power feed and hot all the time? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster

Different countries use different color scheme. So, black is not always
hot here. I don't know what color scheme is used in Myanmar. In shop, I
see blue, yellow, red, brown, and other colors. So, don't assume black
is hot.

When the fan is turned on, one of the two black wires is hot, i.e. this
black wire is the neutral of the fan and controlled by the fan switch.
The other black wire serves as the neutral (meaning it goes to the
panel). The electricity flows from the fan switch through the fan to
this black wire then to the other black wire (neutral) and ultimately,
the panel.

When the light is on, the black neutral wire is still the neutral and
the electricity flows from the light switch to the blue wire through the
black neutral wire to the panel. In this case, the black wire from the
fan is hot, correct?

When both fan and light are on, electricity from the blue wire and the
black fan wire go through the black neutral wire to the panel, correct?

Maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to be confused by the term neutral. Most
people discuss power coming from the hot wire, going through the
device (fan or light), and then returning via the neutral. In normal
situations, switches are placed in the hot wires, not the neutrals.

blue wire
-------------------------------------------o switch o----------------\
hot (or hots) from panel to switches !
-------------------------------------------o switch o----\ !
! !
Fan Light
! !
---------------------------------------------------------o-----------/
neutral (back to panel)

That was my crude attempt at a drawing. It looks OK to me, but you
may see it in a different font. I purposely left out colors except
for the blue which seems pretty clear.
Same as previous post except using a fixed font to make the drawing
better.

On Saturday, March 17, 2018 at 10:16:41 AM UTC-4, Pat wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 09:56:25 -0400, Pat wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 07:11:04 +0630, Oumati Asami
wrote:

On 16/03/2018 21:03, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 7:15:37 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 14:59, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 2:23:03 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 12:05, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 9:45:19 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 16/03/2018 03:27, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 5:11:36 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 15/03/2018 09:13, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:38:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
How does this circuit work?

This house has 3 phase power.

I was replacing a downlight and found it having two black, two neutral,
and one blue incoming wire.

If the light switch was on, the blue wire was energized.
If the ceiling fan was on, one of the incoming black wire was energized.

Why/how do both light and fan work when both are on?

incoming downlight
a) ================(black)------------------
b) ================(neutral)----------------
c) ----------------(blue)------------------

Knowing which country you reside in would help. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

I didn't think it matters. I'm in Myanmar if this helps.


I'm guessing the normal power supplied to your electrical outlets and light fixtures is 250vac 50hz. Most folks who post here are in North America where the power supplied to regular electrical outlets and light fixtures is 120vac 60hz. Larger appliances will use 240vac. I had an instructor once tell the class,"Electrons are electrons." Meaning electrons are going to go where they want so you better guide them.^_^

[8~{} Uncle Electrical Monster

I think it is 230 v though I did not test.

I believe someone posted a link showing that it's 230vac 50hz used in your country. I found it. ^_^

http://treehouse.ofb.net/go/en/voltage/Myanmar

I imagine the wire colors are different and wire sizes are much smaller than what is used in North America. I did some modifications to some portable housing units manufactured in Australia and the wiring was stranded where the wire used here is normally solid for use in wiring run to light fixtures and electrical outlets. The question I have is, does the power supplied to your lighting circuits and electrical outlets read 230vac from hot to neutral/ground? Is there a pair of hot wires at each outlet or is there just one hot wire? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster


I had checked several outlets before and found them containing three
wires (LNG) and being 230 V. I did not check the particular light and
fan in question. I think they are 230 V also.

At first, I thought maybe the fan shared the neutral with the light. But
what happens when both light and fan are on?


It shouldn't be a problem for the light and fan to share the same neutral and ground. If they are switched separately using the same Line/Hot wire, you want to use the same neutral. Here in North America, a bathroom sometimes has two separate switches for the light and exhaust fan but there is usually only one switch and the light/lights and fan are on at the same time. It's not rocket surgery. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Neutral Monster

Just want to make sure I understand what you said. When both the fan and
light are on, the blue wire and one of the black wire (black one) are
energized. Does the other black wire (black two) serve as the neutral
for both the fan and the light?

When only the light is on, is the black two also energized (black one is
the neutral for the light and black one and two are connected together)?

Remember that the flow of power is from whatever wire is energized/hot to the neutral. So if you have two switches connected to the hot wire, you can control two devices. One side of the device is hooked to the neutral and the other to the switched leg. What I'd like to know is if the black wire is your power feed and hot all the time? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Curious Monster

Different countries use different color scheme. So, black is not always
hot here. I don't know what color scheme is used in Myanmar. In shop, I
see blue, yellow, red, brown, and other colors. So, don't assume black
is hot.

When the fan is turned on, one of the two black wires is hot, i.e. this
black wire is the neutral of the fan and controlled by the fan switch.
The other black wire serves as the neutral (meaning it goes to the
panel). The electricity flows from the fan switch through the fan to
this black wire then to the other black wire (neutral) and ultimately,
the panel.

When the light is on, the black neutral wire is still the neutral and
the electricity flows from the light switch to the blue wire through the
black neutral wire to the panel. In this case, the black wire from the
fan is hot, correct?

When both fan and light are on, electricity from the blue wire and the
black fan wire go through the black neutral wire to the panel, correct?

Maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to be confused by the term neutral. Most
people discuss power coming from the hot wire, going through the
device (fan or light), and then returning via the neutral. In normal
situations, switches are placed in the hot wires, not the neutrals.

blue wire
-------------------------------------------o switch o----------------\
hot (or hots) from panel to switches !
-------------------------------------------o switch o----\ !
! !
Fan Light
! !
---------------------------------------------------------o-----------/
neutral (back to panel)

That was my crude attempt at a drawing. It looks OK to me, but you
may see it in a different font. I purposely left out colors except
for the blue which seems pretty clear.
Same as previous post except using a fixed font to make the drawing
better.

Looks much better than the first one. It's clear enough. Hope it works. The only thing that is a bit of a mystery is that he seems to have more wires than needed, ie you just need two switched hots, a neutral and ground.

On 3/17/2018 9:38 AM, trader_4 wrote:
....

Looks much better than the first one. It's clear enough. Hope it works. The only thing that is a bit of a mystery is that he seems to have more wires than needed, ie you just need two switched hots, a neutral and ground.

Pull a cable and it has however many wires as are in it...mayhaps don't
need all of 'em but it's quicker/cheaper than pulling individual runs
and what would typically be done in residential construction in US,
anyways...who knows what they do in Myamar without being there???

--

On Saturday, March 17, 2018 at 1:38:08 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 3/17/2018 9:38 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

Looks much better than the first one. It's clear enough. Hope it works. The only thing that is a bit of a mystery is that he seems to have more wires than needed, ie you just need two switched hots, a neutral and ground.

Pull a cable and it has however many wires as are in it...mayhaps don't
need all of 'em but it's quicker/cheaper than pulling individual runs
and what would typically be done in residential construction in US,
anyways...who knows what they do in Myamar without being there???

--

I would assume that he's only talking about wires that are actually connected to something, but who knows.