Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 3/10/2018 8:45 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


Twice a day seems a lot but I guess 12 hours on a small engine can use
it up. Is there a neighbor than can do the checks? I'd think most any
teenager can handle ir.

On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:03:33 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Twice a day seems a lot but I guess 12 hours on a small engine can use
it up. Is there a neighbor than can do the checks? I'd think most any
teenager can handle ir.

She can't count on a neighbor. I would think that the person telling me
this bought a cheap generator*. I can't believe there aren't ones that can
run with no maintenance for two weeks.

But going to a website, like Generac's, they don't tell you things like
this.

* She did say hers is only partial house, and she did not have to replace
her plastic lined gas main. My mom's main also has a plastic insert, and
will have to be replaced if we want her to have a serious generator.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 3/10/18 7:45 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

A quick search turned up this one:
https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Kohler-14RESA-Standby-Generator/p8198.html

It has a low oil shutdown/alert.
Murphy Switchgage makes all sorts of engine gauges/shutdowns.

On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 20:45:11 -0500, Don Wiss
wrote:

Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
Yes there are systems for generatos that automaticlly pump oil into
the crankcase when required, just like the system used on the old
Toyota Previa.

On Sat, 10 Mar 2018, Dean Hoffman wrote:

A quick search turned up this one:
https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Kohler-14RESA-Standby-Generator/p8198.html

It has a low oil shutdown/alert.
Murphy Switchgage makes all sorts of engine gauges/shutdowns.

All of them shut down when the oil is low. They don't self destruct. But
that doesn't solve the problem of a 96 year old woman having to add oil.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 3/10/18 8:12 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018, Dean Hoffman wrote:

A quick search turned up this one:
https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Kohler-14RESA-Standby-Generator/p8198.html

It has a low oil shutdown/alert.
Murphy Switchgage makes all sorts of engine gauges/shutdowns.

All of them shut down when the oil is low. They don't self destruct. But
that doesn't solve the problem of a 96 year old woman having to add oil.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well, Murphy has this:
http://www.fwmurphy.com/products/level-devices/lm500 I spotted
at least one more brand with a quick search.

On Saturday, March 10, 2018 at 7:45:23 PM UTC-6, Don Wiss wrote:
Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

The Generac home backup gensets I installed in the 1990's had auxiliary oil tanks that would automatically keep the crankcase oil level where it was supposed to be. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Generator Monster

On Sat, 10 Mar 2018, Dean Hoffman wrote:

Well, Murphy has this:
http://www.fwmurphy.com/products/level-devices/lm500 I spotted
at least one more brand with a quick search.

Interesting. I didn't know such a thing existed. I looked through a couple
of the installation manuals. I was unable to find whether it could, or
could not, be used outside.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Sat, 10 Mar 2018, Uncle Monster wrote:

The Generac home backup gensets I installed in the 1990's had auxiliary oil tanks that would automatically keep the crankcase oil level where it was supposed to be. ^_^

That may the right answer. It makes sense. I can't believe if one buys a
high-end generator one has to manually monitor and keep the oil filled.

Next time I talk to the woman I can ask what generator she has. I have
already spoken with her twice tonight.

She's the junior warden at my mom's church. She's more concerned that my
mom gets a generator than we kids are. Apparently my mom is the only very
old person in the church living alone, with no live in help or children
living nearby. But she drives every day and likes her independence. Though
with the tree that fell on the car's windshield, she can't drive until the
mobile unit comes to replace it.

Thanks, Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 3/10/18 8:35 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018, Dean Hoffman wrote:

Well, Murphy has this:
http://www.fwmurphy.com/products/level-devices/lm500 I spotted
at least one more brand with a quick search.

Interesting. I didn't know such a thing existed. I looked through a couple
of the installation manuals. I was unable to find whether it could, or
could not, be used outside.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

I see their stuff on power units on irrigation wells. This stuff
sits outside
year 'round. It's only actually used in the summer though. I've never
seen
that oil level maintainer though.

On 3/10/18 8:23 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Saturday, March 10, 2018 at 7:45:23 PM UTC-6, Don Wiss wrote:
Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

The Generac home backup gensets I installed in the 1990's had auxiliary oil tanks that would automatically keep the crankcase oil level where it was supposed to be. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Generator Monster

Is there some sort of some self starting mechanism just for test
purposes?
I understand some self start at loss of power but what about just a test?

On Saturday, March 10, 2018 at 8:44:05 PM UTC-6, Don Wiss wrote:
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018, Uncle Monster wrote:

The Generac home backup gensets I installed in the 1990's had auxiliary oil tanks that would automatically keep the crankcase oil level where it was supposed to be. ^_^

That may the right answer. It makes sense. I can't believe if one buys a
high-end generator one has to manually monitor and keep the oil filled.

Next time I talk to the woman I can ask what generator she has. I have
already spoken with her twice tonight.

She's the junior warden at my mom's church. She's more concerned that my
mom gets a generator than we kids are. Apparently my mom is the only very
old person in the church living alone, with no live in help or children
living nearby. But she drives every day and likes her independence. Though
with the tree that fell on the car's windshield, she can't drive until the
mobile unit comes to replace it.

Thanks, Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


The Generac units weren't the most expensive high-end units out there but they were basically done right. Me and my brother were installing DSC alarm system boards in the transfer switches so the system would call into a monitoring station when the system exercised once a week. If it missed its weekly exercise time we'd get a call from the alarm monitoring company to contact the customer so we could go out and check the generator. The gensets had a trouble output that could also trigger the alarm board. Now the newest Generac units have their own design monitoring system built into the gensets.. I think it's web-based as I recall without looking it up. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Generated Monster

On Saturday, March 10, 2018 at 9:10:07 PM UTC-6, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 3/10/18 8:23 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Saturday, March 10, 2018 at 7:45:23 PM UTC-6, Don Wiss wrote:
Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

The Generac home backup gensets I installed in the 1990's had auxiliary oil tanks that would automatically keep the crankcase oil level where it was supposed to be. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Generator Monster

Is there some sort of some self starting mechanism just for test
purposes?
I understand some self start at loss of power but what about just a test?


All the backup gensets I installed and serviced had a weekly self-test timer. Back then, I installed the alarm system board out of a DSC security alarm panel and wired it up so it would dialup a security system monitoring company when the genset did its weekly exercise. If it missed its weekly exercise, I got a call from the monitoring company so I could contact the customer and arrange a service call. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Alarmed Monster

On Saturday, March 10, 2018 at 9:09:28 PM UTC-5, Don Wiss wrote:
On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 21:03:33 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Twice a day seems a lot but I guess 12 hours on a small engine can use
it up. Is there a neighbor than can do the checks? I'd think most any
teenager can handle ir.

She can't count on a neighbor. I would think that the person telling me
this bought a cheap generator*. I can't believe there aren't ones that can
run with no maintenance for two weeks.

But going to a website, like Generac's, they don't tell you things like
this.

* She did say hers is only partial house, and she did not have to replace
her plastic lined gas main. My mom's main also has a plastic insert, and
will have to be replaced if we want her to have a serious generator.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

From what I've seen Generac residential generators are crap. I wound up
with one that was only a few years old from a neighbor. It failed and
the service people told him it wasn't worth fixing and they didn't even
want it for parts. He bought a new one. I got the old one, diagnosed it
down to a bad rotor and possibly a bad stator. I was going to fix it,
until I looked at reviews of Generac on Amazon. This was about 5 years
ago. The reviews were really, really bad. All kinds of complaints from
ones that failed in just a few years, to ones that were leaking oil when
brand new. And people complaining that Generac customer service was
non-existent, that they wouldn't resolve problems, etc. I'd definitely
do research before buying any generator. I came to the conclusion it
wasn't worth fixing.

On 3/10/18 5:45 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

what about a fuel cell?

On 3/10/18 7:45 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

I think most of those run at 3600 rpm. We had a generator at
work that
ran at half that. It was much quieter, of course. The generator was
only big
enough to run impact wrenches and stuff like that.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 15:16:30 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 3/10/18 7:45 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

I think most of those run at 3600 rpm. We had a generator at
work that
ran at half that. It was much quieter, of course. The generator was
only big
enough to run impact wrenches and stuff like that.
The GOOD generators run at 1800 RPM. Not many of them being sold
today.

On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 8:03:27 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 15:16:30 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 3/10/18 7:45 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

I think most of those run at 3600 rpm. We had a generator at
work that
ran at half that. It was much quieter, of course. The generator was
only big
enough to run impact wrenches and stuff like that.
The GOOD generators run at 1800 RPM. Not many of them being sold
today.


Back in the 1990's when I was installing Generac gensets for homes and businesses, the little 8kw used an air-cooled Briggs & Stratton V-twin that ran at 3600rpm but the 10kw used a liquid-cooled 4cyl Turkish Fiat engine running at 1800rpm. The higher output Generacs using the same little 4cyl ran the engine at 3600. My favorite genset of all time is a very old Onan air-cooled flat 4cyl 15kw with a natural gas kit that were bought from a used equipment dealer. I installed a lot of them and they were very reliable. There were no electronic controls anywhere in the generator or transfer switch. The transfer switch had a special voltage sense relay that closed when the generator got up to speed. Everything was electromechanical and I rarely had to repair anything in them. I'd change the oil and filter once a year and test them. There was an electromechanical time clock in the transfer switch that ran them once a week but other than that I never had one fail to come on when there was a power outage. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Power Monster

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:09:53 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

From what I've seen Generac residential generators are crap. I wound up
with one that was only a few years old from a neighbor. It failed and
the service people told him it wasn't worth fixing and they didn't even
want it for parts. He bought a new one. I got the old one, diagnosed it
down to a bad rotor and possibly a bad stator. I was going to fix it,
until I looked at reviews of Generac on Amazon. This was about 5 years
ago. The reviews were really, really bad. All kinds of complaints from
ones that failed in just a few years, to ones that were leaking oil when
brand new. And people complaining that Generac customer service was
non-existent, that they wouldn't resolve problems, etc. I'd definitely
do research before buying any generator. I came to the conclusion it
wasn't worth fixing.

+1
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On 03/11/2018 03:48 PM, ZZyXX wrote:
On 3/10/18 5:45 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

what about a fuel cell?



Or maybe put a small nuclear plant in her back yard?

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018, trader_4 wrote:

From what I've seen Generac residential generators are crap. I wound up
with one that was only a few years old from a neighbor. It failed and
the service people told him it wasn't worth fixing and they didn't even
want it for parts.

I went to Consumer Reports online. There is only one whole house generator
recommended. It is the Kohler. They wrote:

Kohler’s stationary generator was top-notch at delivering ample, especially
smooth power, claimed to offer 12,000 watts using natural gas and another
2,000 if you use propane. This saves you the hassle of storing gasoline. As
with other standby generators, it starts automatically and can run
indefinitely unless running off an external propane tank. It was among the
quietest of the models we tested and includes a low-oil shutoff with a
warning indicator. It also comes with a transfer switch. An add-on module,
$475, lets you monitor your generator’s status from anywhere using a
Windows PC.

On the Kohler site I find two 20kW generators. Those would be a better
size.

Thanks all!

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 12:10:00 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018, trader_4 wrote:

From what I've seen Generac residential generators are crap. I wound up
with one that was only a few years old from a neighbor. It failed and
the service people told him it wasn't worth fixing and they didn't even
want it for parts.

I went to Consumer Reports online. There is only one whole house generator
recommended. It is the Kohler. They wrote:

Kohlers stationary generator was top-notch at delivering ample, especially
smooth power, claimed to offer 12,000 watts using natural gas and another
2,000 if you use propane. This saves you the hassle of storing gasoline. As
with other standby generators, it starts automatically and can run
indefinitely unless running off an external propane tank. It was among the
quietest of the models we tested and includes a low-oil shutoff with a
warning indicator. It also comes with a transfer switch. An add-on module,
$475, lets you monitor your generators status from anywhere using a
Windows PC.

On the Kohler site I find two 20kW generators. Those would be a better
size.

Thanks all!

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Why would you think you need 20KW? That's 80 amps at 240V or
160 amps at 120V. But then I guess it also depends on how much
more the larger one costs and a lot of the cost is the install,
which would be the same anyway.

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018, trader_4 wrote:

Why would you think you need 20KW? That's 80 amps at 240V or
160 amps at 120V.

She has two refrigerators, plus a freezer. None new. One ancient. Two
central air units. Not top-of-the-line. Plus the usual in a mostly gas
powered house.

But then I guess it also depends on how much
more the larger one costs and a lot of the cost is the install,
which would be the same anyway.

The price difference is $844. The other costs overwhelm this. Especially
the $5,000 (or more) to run a new gas main. If she doesn't run a new main,
she could only have a partial house one (like the neighbors that didn't
install a new gas main) and there is the complication of load management.
With the whole house, life goes on as before.

Plus the house is going to be sold after she dies. Maybe in five years? It
is a tear down candidate (ceilings are only 7' 10"). The extra size should
be a plus.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018, trader_4 wrote:

Why would you think you need 20KW? That's 80 amps at 240V or
160 amps at 120V.

She has two refrigerators, plus a freezer. None new. One ancient. Two
central air units. Not top-of-the-line. Plus the usual in a mostly gas
powered house.

But then I guess it also depends on how much
more the larger one costs and a lot of the cost is the install,
which would be the same anyway.

The price difference is $844. The other costs overwhelm this. Especially
the $5,000 (or more) to run a new gas main. If she doesn't run a new main,
she could only have a partial house one (like the neighbors that didn't
install a new gas main) and there is the complication of load management.
With the whole house, life goes on as before.

Plus the house is going to be sold after she dies. Maybe in five years? It
is a tear down candidate (ceilings are only 7' 10"). The extra size should
be a plus.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

If the load management was limited to not running both central AC
units at the same time, you could easily get by with the 12KW unit.
AC probably needs 25 amps/240V running, more to start. Those other
loads are peanuts. A modern fridge draws maybe 3 amps to start,
then less than one amp when running. TVs, lights especially LEDS now
don't amount to much. But then like I said, the difference in price
isn't that much of a percentage because all the other stuff adds so
much. That new gas line is a killer.

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018, trader_4 wrote:

A modern fridge draws maybe 3 amps to start,
then less than one amp when running.

The refrigerator and upright freezer in the kitchen date to 1988. The
refrigerator in the basement is probably 50 years old.

TVs, lights especially LEDS now
don't amount to much.

She likes her large CRT TV. There are almost no LEDs. Though she doesn't
keep many lights on.

But then like I said, the difference in price
isn't that much of a percentage because all the other stuff adds so
much.

Yep.

That new gas line is a killer.

Yep. That is what stopped her when she looked into this some years ago.
There were long outages after Sandy and Irene. One was 5 days and the other
11 days. But in those days my father was alive. The fire department brought
a gasoline generator and returned every few hours to refill it. But my mom
doesn't use a CPAP machine or need to keep insulin cold. So that ended.

The next door neighbor does not have a whole house generator. Only partial.
They have been going to their beach house on the weekends.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 1:39:18 PM UTC-5, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018, trader_4 wrote:

Why would you think you need 20KW? That's 80 amps at 240V or
160 amps at 120V.

She has two refrigerators, plus a freezer. None new. One ancient. Two
central air units. Not top-of-the-line. Plus the usual in a mostly gas
powered house.

But then I guess it also depends on how much
more the larger one costs and a lot of the cost is the install,
which would be the same anyway.

The price difference is $844. The other costs overwhelm this. Especially
the $5,000 (or more) to run a new gas main. If she doesn't run a new main,
she could only have a partial house one (like the neighbors that didn't
install a new gas main) and there is the complication of load management.
With the whole house, life goes on as before.

Plus the house is going to be sold after she dies. Maybe in five years? It
is a tear down candidate (ceilings are only 7' 10"). The extra size should
be a plus.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


Kohler is the Cadillac of home gensets but still needs regular service. As I recall, the NG fueled gensets I installed required 11 inches water column gas pressure to operate properly. I remember having to get the gas company to change out the meter and main regulator to give us the higher pressure. We had a T before the new pressure regulator feeding the home. It was a matter of changing the meter and regulators. The genset was usually near the gas meter and I ran a 1/2" copper line to the little 8kw gensets and a 3/4" copper line to the 10kw and up. The gensets have a demand regulator which feed NG to the generator based on the airflow through the carb. Me and the guys installed a lot of home generators in the wealthier communities after a series of storms knocked out power for days some years ago. We were very busy for a while. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Stormy Monster

A modern fridge draws maybe 3 amps to start,
then less than one amp when running.

The refrigerator and upright freezer in the kitchen date to 1988. The
refrigerator in the basement is probably 50 years old.

That one in the basement... is probably working with Freon-12.
Which is highly valuable these days. Call a couple of air
condiitioning/refrig places and see how much they'll offer you.

That being said, I'm sure you've considered the economics
of swapping these old units for _much more efficien_
modern ones. Then again, of cours, is the hassle factor.

Anyway, my main point is to mention that while the units
might be using 50 to 200 watts when operating, they can
easily pull more than 500 when in auto-defrost mode.

My current one is about 75 watts running, 500 in defrost.
Older units probably double or more both those figures.

Which are numbers that get big enough to be a consideration
when spec'ing emergency power.

- a social hall I deal with recently started getting full outages
of all the overhead lights in their main reception area. It turned
out that although there were a dozen circuit breakers on that floor,
all those wires ran to just a pair of breakers at another panel.

So instead of (for illustration) 150 or so amps available, it
was only [20 times 2, more or less].

And... they had recently added an outlet to the main floor and
pluged a refrigerator into it. Which was wired into the same
circuit feeding the overheads.

When the overhead lights were off, or even just one string of
them, there was no problem when the defrost cycle kicked on.

However... if the place was occupied and all the lights were lit,
then the extra five amps from the defrost heater was enough
to overload the other breaker pair. (It only tripped one of
the breakers, but they were joined together).

Took me a long time to figure out what was happening...


--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On 3/12/18 8:39 AM, Bob wrote:
On 03/11/2018 03:48 PM, ZZyXX wrote:
On 3/10/18 5:45 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom
lives
in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for
about a
day, and it is out again.

Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a
dipstick.
And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no
maintenance?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

what about a fuel cell?



Or maybe put a small nuclear plant in her back yard?

I'm sure burpford is available

On 3/11/18 12:50 PM, BurfordTJustice wrote:
LOL......get a grip om reality.







"ZZyXX" wrote in message
news : On 3/10/18 5:45 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
: Here in Brooklyn the wires are underground. But where my elderly mom
lives
: in NJ there are frequent power outages. She got her power back for about
a
: day, and it is out again.
:
: Of course she would put in a natural gas generator. But what I learned
: tonight is they require checking the oil level twice a day with a
dipstick.
: And adding oil. This would be beyond what she can do. Are all generators
: like this? Are there ones that can run for two weeks with no
maintenance?
:
: Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
:
: what about a fuel cell?


how's that worked for you?

I own a Generac 1700 KW Full House Generator. We've had it for about
a decade.



Is it similar to the 1700 kw unit in this advert ? :-)

http://www.usednanaimo.com/classifie...rator_27983302

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 7:40:19 PM UTC-5, wrote:

I own a Generac 1700 KW Full House Generator. We've had it for about
a decade.

s Is it similar to the 1700 kw unit in this advert ? :-)

http://www.usednanaimo.com/classifie...rator_27983302


Do you have it serviced at least once a year? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Service Monster

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 20:41:56 -0400, wrote:



I own a Generac 1700 KW Full House Generator. We've had it for about
a decade.



Is it similar to the 1700 kw unit in this advert ? :-)

http://www.usednanaimo.com/classifie...rator_27983302


If it is a 1700kw I doubt it looks like that. It would look more like
a small locomotive

I own a Generac 1700 KW Full House Generator. We've had it for about
a decade.


Is it similar to the 1700 kw unit in this advert ? :-)
http://www.usednanaimo.com/classifie...rator_27983302


If it is a 1700kw I doubt it looks like that. It would look more like
a small locomotive


.. what's a couple decimal points - among friends ..
John T.

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 8:40:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:

I own a Generac 1700 KW Full House Generator. We've had it for about
a decade.



Is it similar to the 1700 kw unit in this advert ? :-)

http://www.usednanaimo.com/classifie...rator_27983302



i think that is 17 kW. as shown on the faceplate.
m

On 03/12/2018 10:06 PM, wrote:

[snip]

.. what's a couple decimal points - among friends ..
John T.

"One of them is my name. The other one is not." :-)

--
"To save the world requires faith and courage: faith in reason, and
courage to proclaim what reason shows to be true." [Bertrand Russell,
"The Prospects of Industrial Civilization"]

Per trader_4:
From what I've seen Generac residential generators are crap.

I do not know how many Generacs are in our neighborhood, but during the last
outage I walked around and saw 3 houses with Generacs where the gennie had
failed.
--
Pete Cresswell

From what I've seen Generac residential generators are crap.

I do not know how many Generacs are in our neighborhood, but during the last
outage I walked around and saw 3 houses with Generacs where the gennie had
failed.

We've had a Generac 17kw whole house generator for almost 15 years.
It has never failed. A few times it had to run for a solid week
because of power outages due to flood conditions. It has had to run
for 3-4 days at a time quite often because of non-flood power losses.
It is the best investment we ever made in regard to our home.
You cannot be sloppy with the maintenance of such a necessary item.
We have a professional maintenance outfit come out twice a year to
change oil and check it out. You have to pay attention to it. You
just cannot wait for some problem to happen before you call the
maintain people. It could just be during an emergency that it will
fail if you didn't keep up with the maintenance.
We have a few large retailers around here who depend on Generac
generators. One of them is a Menard's who has a monster one sitting in
their parking lot.
As far as I'm concerned, there isn't a dang thing wrong with the
Generac brand. And that includes the helpful people at the other end
of their customer help line. I've had to call a few times with a
question, and those people were very helpful and had a nice attitude.


What fuels your 17,000 watt unit ?
and how much fuel would you use - per day - on average ?
I've been getting-by with my 5,000 watt Honda portable, for almost
20 years - but might be upgrading soon. if it ever dies
John T.

On Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 11:01:07 PM UTC-5, wrote:
From what I've seen Generac residential generators are crap.

I do not know how many Generacs are in our neighborhood, but during the last
outage I walked around and saw 3 houses with Generacs where the gennie had
failed.

We've had a Generac 17kw whole house generator for almost 15 years.
It has never failed. A few times it had to run for a solid week
because of power outages due to flood conditions. It has had to run
for 3-4 days at a time quite often because of non-flood power losses.
It is the best investment we ever made in regard to our home.
You cannot be sloppy with the maintenance of such a necessary item.
We have a professional maintenance outfit come out twice a year to
change oil and check it out. You have to pay attention to it. You
just cannot wait for some problem to happen before you call the
maintain people. It could just be during an emergency that it will
fail if you didn't keep up with the maintenance.
We have a few large retailers around here who depend on Generac
generators. One of them is a Menard's who has a monster one sitting in
their parking lot.
As far as I'm concerned, there isn't a dang thing wrong with the
Generac brand. And that includes the helpful people at the other end
of their customer help line. I've had to call a few times with a
question, and those people were very helpful and had a nice attitude.

What fuels your 17,000 watt unit ?
and how much fuel would you use - per day - on average ?
I've been getting-by with my 5,000 watt Honda portable, for almost
20 years - but might be upgrading soon. if it ever dies
John T.

The Generac units I installed all ran off natural gas. The fuel is so clean burning that the spark plugs last for years and the engine oil stays clean.. The same setup will also run on LP gas. For the money, Generac is a good buy. You can spend 5 times as much for a Kohler, Onan or Cummings but it's a waste of money unless you're running a hospital or data center. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Genset Monster

On Sun, 06 May 2018 00:03:13 -0400, wrote:


From what I've seen Generac residential generators are crap.

I do not know how many Generacs are in our neighborhood, but during the last
outage I walked around and saw 3 houses with Generacs where the gennie had
failed.

We've had a Generac 17kw whole house generator for almost 15 years.
It has never failed. A few times it had to run for a solid week
because of power outages due to flood conditions. It has had to run
for 3-4 days at a time quite often because of non-flood power losses.
It is the best investment we ever made in regard to our home.
You cannot be sloppy with the maintenance of such a necessary item.
We have a professional maintenance outfit come out twice a year to
change oil and check it out. You have to pay attention to it. You
just cannot wait for some problem to happen before you call the
maintain people. It could just be during an emergency that it will
fail if you didn't keep up with the maintenance.
We have a few large retailers around here who depend on Generac
generators. One of them is a Menard's who has a monster one sitting in
their parking lot.
As far as I'm concerned, there isn't a dang thing wrong with the
Generac brand. And that includes the helpful people at the other end
of their customer help line. I've had to call a few times with a
question, and those people were very helpful and had a nice attitude.


What fuels your 17,000 watt unit ?
and how much fuel would you use - per day - on average ?
I've been getting-by with my 5,000 watt Honda portable, for almost
20 years - but might be upgrading soon. if it ever dies
John T.


I've got a Champion 7200 Tri-Fuel - Gas, Peopane, and Natural gas.