On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt on
the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a water
pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator is a
device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the outgoing
water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main pressure is,
be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also increase.

Does he make sense?

On 11/12/2017 07:40 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt on the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a water pressure reducer. According to him, a water
pressure regulator is a device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the outgoing water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main pressure is, be it 100, 90, 80, or
70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is, say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50
psi, when the main pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also increase.

Does he make sense?

http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbou...cingValves.asp

On 11/12/17 7:40 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt on
the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a
water pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator
is a device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the
outgoing water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main
pressure is, be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also
increase.

Does he make sense?

No, according to this maker's article, he has it backwards.

"Even if the supply water pressure fluctuates, the *pressure reducing
valve* ensures a constant flow of water at a functional pressure, as
long as the supply pressure does not drop below the valve's pre-set
pressure."

http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbou...=64#whatiswprv

On Sunday, November 12, 2017 at 7:40:17 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt on
the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a water
pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator is a
device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the outgoing
water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main pressure is,
be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also increase.

Does he make sense?

No, I've never seen a "pressure reducer", only pressure regulators.
Also, the concept of a pressure reducer is pretty stupid. You want
a regulator that is capable of taking an unregulated incoming pressure
and then maintaining the set constant pressure on the other side,
as long as the desired set pressure is at the incoming pressure or lower.
I suspect that's what you have and your thinking on this is correct.

replying to Oumati Asami, Iggy wrote:
The Engineer's right in his description , but wrong with your device. Plain
and simple, if you have a Bell or Cone on top you have a Regulator or Limiting
Valve. Under the Bell or Cone is a Spring that fixes your flow-rate, opening
or closing automatically in response to water pressure fluctuations. This and
yours delivers a fairly constant outlet pressure.

While the word Reducer is correct for yours, because it's actually doing that
and the name is even interchangeable by some people. However, the proper usage
of the word Reducer usually applies to devices that don't have a spring and
are just designed with a static fixed flow-rate or low-flow. These rely on
supply pressures being mostly constant, therefore they do fluctuate whenever
the supply does.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...r-1150841-.htm

On Sunday, November 12, 2017 at 2:44:06 PM UTC-5, Iggy wrote:
replying to Oumati Asami, Iggy wrote:
The Engineer's right in his description , but wrong with your device.

No, he's not right in his description. What the poster said was that
the "engineer" said that it works by maintaining a constant, fixed,
reduction amount in output pressure versus input pressure. No matter
if you call it a regulator or a pressure reducing valve, I've never
seen one work that way. They all work by maintaining a constant,
set output pressure that's adjustable.

A reducer that just takes a fixed X PSI off the incoming pressure and
then varies the output up and down as the unregulated side varies
would be pretty worthless. He can verify what he has, just get the
make and go to the manufacturer's website.

On 12-Nov-17 8:34 PM, Retired wrote:
On 11/12/17 7:40 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt on
the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a
water pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator
is a device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the
outgoing water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main
pressure is, be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also
increase.

Does he make sense?

No, according to this maker's article, he has it backwards.

"Even if the supply water pressure fluctuates, the *pressure reducing
valve* ensures a constant flow of water at a functional pressure, as
long as the supply pressure does not drop below the valve's pre-set
pressure."

http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbou...=64#whatiswprv


I read the article. The article says "ensures a constant flow of water
at a functional pressure". I don't know what a "FUNCTIONAL PRESSURE"
means. Is it "constant pressure" or not? That's what I want to know.

On 11/13/2017 11:25 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 12-Nov-17 8:34 PM, Retired wrote:
On 11/12/17 7:40 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt
on the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a
water pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator
is a device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the
outgoing water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main
pressure is, be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also
increase.

Does he make sense?

No, according to this maker's article, he has it backwards.

"Even if the supply water pressure fluctuates, the *pressure reducing
valve* ensures a constant flow of water at a functional pressure, as
long as the supply pressure does not drop below the valve's pre-set
pressure."

http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbou...=64#whatiswprv


I read the article. The article says "ensures a constant flow of water
at a functional pressure". I don't know what a "FUNCTIONAL PRESSURE"
means. Is it "constant pressure" or not? That's what I want to know.

Define constant. Given the entering pressure may vary it can affect the
leaving predsure a bit. If you take constant as being perfect all the
time then no. If you take constant as being withing a normal tolerance
of a few psi in either direction, then yes. Functional pressure means
the variation is minimal and your toilet flush or dishwasher will still
work. A drop from 50 psi to 42 psi is functional but a drop from 50 to
5 psi is not.

On 12-Nov-17 9:18 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, November 12, 2017 at 7:40:17 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt on
the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a water
pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator is a
device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the outgoing
water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main pressure is,
be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also increase.

Does he make sense?

No, I've never seen a "pressure reducer", only pressure regulators.
Also, the concept of a pressure reducer is pretty stupid. You want
a regulator that is capable of taking an unregulated incoming pressure
and then maintaining the set constant pressure on the other side,
as long as the desired set pressure is at the incoming pressure or lower.
I suspect that's what you have and your thinking on this is correct.


There is a bolt, much bigger than the bolt on the top, on the bottom of
the device. I unscrewed and removed it. A spring, around 2" long and
maybe 1/2" in diameter, fell off the device. Is that normal? I thought
there was a diaphragm or something underneath the spring that would
prevent the spring from falling off.

On 13-Nov-17 8:51 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, November 12, 2017 at 2:44:06 PM UTC-5, Iggy wrote:
replying to Oumati Asami, Iggy wrote:
The Engineer's right in his description , but wrong with your device.

No, he's not right in his description. What the poster said was that
the "engineer" said that it works by maintaining a constant, fixed,
reduction amount in output pressure versus input pressure. No matter
if you call it a regulator or a pressure reducing valve, I've never
seen one work that way. They all work by maintaining a constant,
set output pressure that's adjustable.

A reducer that just takes a fixed X PSI off the incoming pressure and
then varies the output up and down as the unregulated side varies
would be pretty worthless. He can verify what he has, just get the
make and go to the manufacturer's website.


I found the make but still need to find out the model number.

I'm not sure the engineer meant a reducer would reduce the water
pressure by a fixed amount. The output pressure would increase when the
input pressure increases but not by the same amount. Let's say the input
pressure is 80 psi and output pressure is set to 50 psi. When the input
pressure is increased to 100 psi (an increase of 20 psi), the output
pressure would be higher than 50 psi but probably not 70 psi.

On 13-Nov-17 11:02 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/13/2017 11:25 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 12-Nov-17 8:34 PM, Retired wrote:
On 11/12/17 7:40 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt
on the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a
water pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator
is a device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the
outgoing water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main
pressure is, be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also
increase.

Does he make sense?

No, according to this maker's article, he has it backwards.

"Even if the supply water pressure fluctuates, the *pressure reducing
valve* ensures a constant flow of water at a functional pressure, as
long as the supply pressure does not drop below the valve's pre-set
pressure."

http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbou...=64#whatiswprv


I read the article. The article says "ensures a constant flow of water
at a functional pressure". I don't know what a "FUNCTIONAL PRESSURE"
means. Is it "constant pressure" or not? That's what I want to know.

Define constant.Â* Given the entering pressure may vary it can affect the
leaving predsure a bit.Â* If you take constant as being perfect all the
time thenÂ* no.Â* If you take constant as being withing a normal tolerance
of a few psi in either direction, then yes.Â* Functional pressure means
the variation is minimal and your toilet flush or dishwasher will still
work.Â* A drop from 50 psi to 42 psi is functional but a drop from 50 to
5 psi is not.

From 50 to 42 is a drop of 16%. That seems quite large to me. An 8%
drop is acceptable to me but maybe I'm an idealist.

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 11:25:46 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 12-Nov-17 8:34 PM, Retired wrote:
On 11/12/17 7:40 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt on
the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a
water pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator
is a device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the
outgoing water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main
pressure is, be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also
increase.

Does he make sense?

No, according to this maker's article, he has it backwards.

"Even if the supply water pressure fluctuates, the *pressure reducing
valve* ensures a constant flow of water at a functional pressure, as
long as the supply pressure does not drop below the valve's pre-set
pressure."

http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbou...=64#whatiswprv


I read the article. The article says "ensures a constant flow of water
at a functional pressure". I don't know what a "FUNCTIONAL PRESSURE"
means. Is it "constant pressure" or not? That's what I want to know.

It means it maintains the output pressure near what it's set to regardless
of whether the input pressure is at that pressure or much higher. The
whole purpose is to maintain near constant pressure. Again, I believe
your question was whether they work like:

A - Maintains a fixed reduction value, eg 20 psi below whatever the
incoming pressure is. (This is what you say the guy told you) So
if the incoming is 100 and it maintains a 40 drop, you'd have 60
on the house side, but then if the
incoming drops to 70, you'd have 30 PSI out.

B - Maintains a fixed output value, eg 60SI, regardless of incoming
pressure, as long as the incoming is 60+

They work like B, they will keep it close to 60. The A type I've never
seen and if they exist sound pretty worthless when you have the B type
available.

On 11/13/2017 11:50 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:


A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose
output pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main
pressure is, say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi,
when the main pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure
would also increase.

Does he make sense?

No, according to this maker's article, he has it backwards.

"Even if the supply water pressure fluctuates, the *pressure
reducing valve* ensures a constant flow of water at a functional
pressure, as long as the supply pressure does not drop below the
valve's pre-set pressure."

http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbou...=64#whatiswprv


I read the article. The article says "ensures a constant flow of
water at a functional pressure". I don't know what a "FUNCTIONAL
PRESSURE" means. Is it "constant pressure" or not? That's what I want
to know.

Define constant.Â* Given the entering pressure may vary it can affect
the leaving predsure a bit.Â* If you take constant as being perfect all
the time thenÂ* no.Â* If you take constant as being withing a normal
tolerance of a few psi in either direction, then yes.Â* Functional
pressure means the variation is minimal and your toilet flush or
dishwasher will still work.Â* A drop from 50 psi to 42 psi is
functional but a drop from 50 to 5 psi is not.

From 50 to 42 is a drop of 16%. That seems quite large to me. An 8%
drop is acceptable to me but maybe I'm an idealist.

What are you basing your conclusion on? Is it because 8% sounds better
than 16%? I'm basing it on operating a manufacturing plant with air,
steam, city water, recirculated water. We probably had 30 or 40
pressure regulators. I often witnessed drops of 25% with no ill
effects. It was a part of normal operations. Machines and appliances
can take a wide variation unless you are doing some scientific experiments.

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:10:07 +0630, Oumati Asami wrote:

On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt on
the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a water
pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator is a
device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the outgoing
water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main pressure is,
be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also increase.

Does he make sense?

A pressure reducer and a pressure regulator are just different names for the same thing.
In a Navy fire room we called them reducers. All were constant output pressure when
operating. That "engineer" made no sense.

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 11:46:19 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 13-Nov-17 8:51 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, November 12, 2017 at 2:44:06 PM UTC-5, Iggy wrote:
replying to Oumati Asami, Iggy wrote:
The Engineer's right in his description , but wrong with your device.

No, he's not right in his description. What the poster said was that
the "engineer" said that it works by maintaining a constant, fixed,
reduction amount in output pressure versus input pressure. No matter
if you call it a regulator or a pressure reducing valve, I've never
seen one work that way. They all work by maintaining a constant,
set output pressure that's adjustable.

A reducer that just takes a fixed X PSI off the incoming pressure and
then varies the output up and down as the unregulated side varies
would be pretty worthless. He can verify what he has, just get the
make and go to the manufacturer's website.


I found the make but still need to find out the model number.

I'm not sure the engineer meant a reducer would reduce the water
pressure by a fixed amount. The output pressure would increase when the
input pressure increases but not by the same amount. Let's say the input
pressure is 80 psi and output pressure is set to 50 psi. When the input
pressure is increased to 100 psi (an increase of 20 psi), the output
pressure would be higher than 50 psi but probably not 70 psi.

There should be no significant variation. It's a pressure controlled
valve, as the output pressure approaches the set value, it closes.
You might see a pound or two variation, but it should still be very
close to 50 and not matter from a practical standpoint.

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 11:33:41 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 12-Nov-17 9:18 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, November 12, 2017 at 7:40:17 AM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt on
the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a water
pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator is a
device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the outgoing
water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main pressure is,
be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also increase.

Does he make sense?

No, I've never seen a "pressure reducer", only pressure regulators.
Also, the concept of a pressure reducer is pretty stupid. You want
a regulator that is capable of taking an unregulated incoming pressure
and then maintaining the set constant pressure on the other side,
as long as the desired set pressure is at the incoming pressure or lower.
I suspect that's what you have and your thinking on this is correct.


There is a bolt, much bigger than the bolt on the top, on the bottom of
the device. I unscrewed and removed it. A spring, around 2" long and
maybe 1/2" in diameter, fell off the device. Is that normal? I thought
there was a diaphragm or something underneath the spring that would
prevent the spring from falling off.

We don't know which particular device you have or how it's put together.
What's the problem and what are you trying to do? Taking a bolt with
a spring out and having the spring come with it doesn't sound unusual
to me.

No, I've never seen a "pressure reducer", only pressure regulators.



The types of regulators we are talking about all work by REDUCING the pressure.

If the regulator is set to 50 and the incoming pressure is 25, the "regulator cannot increase the pressure, it can regulate in one direction only and that is reducing.


That's probably what the engineer was trying to say.

mark

I found the make but still need to find out the model number.



Home Depot's web site has a lot of them - after you click on the
product - there is a link to "specifications" that might help.
.... graphs for flow characteristics; pressure ranges and limits, etc
Here's just one example ..

https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pd...76134d9f7f.pdf

John T.

On 13-Nov-17 11:59 PM, wrote:


No, I've never seen a "pressure reducer", only pressure regulators.



The types of regulators we are talking about all work by REDUCING the pressure.

If the regulator is set to 50 and the incoming pressure is 25, the "regulator cannot increase the pressure, it can regulate in one direction only and that is reducing.


That's probably what the engineer was trying to say.

mark


No. That's not what he tried to say. I told him the output pressure
should be constant. He said no. He said the output pressure would be
affected by the input pressure.

He also said the lowest pressure the devise could set to was about 48
psi. I really doubted it. That seems to be quite high for residential
water pressure (not that the pressure is quite high but the lower limit
is quite high). I would think the device could reduce the pressure to 20
psi or lower. But then, I really need to find out the model number and
check the literature.

On 13-Nov-17 11:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/13/2017 11:50 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:


A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose
output pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main
pressure is, say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50
psi, when the main pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output
pressure would also increase.

Does he make sense?

No, according to this maker's article, he has it backwards.

"Even if the supply water pressure fluctuates, the *pressure
reducing valve* ensures a constant flow of water at a functional
pressure, as long as the supply pressure does not drop below the
valve's pre-set pressure."

http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbou...=64#whatiswprv


I read the article. The article says "ensures a constant flow of
water at a functional pressure". I don't know what a "FUNCTIONAL
PRESSURE" means. Is it "constant pressure" or not? That's what I
want to know.

Define constant.Â* Given the entering pressure may vary it can affect
the leaving predsure a bit.Â* If you take constant as being perfect
all the time thenÂ* no.Â* If you take constant as being withing a
normal tolerance of a few psi in either direction, then yes.
Functional pressure means the variation is minimal and your toilet
flush or dishwasher will still work.Â* A drop from 50 psi to 42 psi is
functional but a drop from 50 to 5 psi is not.

Â*From 50 to 42 is a drop of 16%. That seems quite large to me. An 8%
drop is acceptable to me but maybe I'm an idealist.

What are you basing your conclusion on?Â* Is it because 8% sounds better
than 16%?Â* I'm basing it on operating a manufacturing plant with air,
steam, city water, recirculated water.Â* We probably had 30 or 40
pressure regulators.Â* I often witnessed drops of 25% with no ill
effects.Â* It was a part of normal operations.Â* Machines and appliances
can take a wide variation unless you are doing some scientific experiments.

If a valve downstream is open, the pressure would drop. When I was with
the engineer, I did open a valve and the pressure dropped from 60 to 42
psi. But this is a totally different thing. It's not my concern. My
concern is: if the input pressure increases, would the output pressure
also increase given that the device is set to a certain pressure below
the input pressure?

On 14-Nov-17 12:17 AM, wrote:


I found the make but still need to find out the model number.



Home Depot's web site has a lot of them - after you click on the
product - there is a link to "specifications" that might help.
... graphs for flow characteristics; pressure ranges and limits, etc
Here's just one example ..

https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pd...76134d9f7f.pdf

John T.

Thanks for the link.

I'm not sure how to read the flow rates chart. The legend says it's
based on a 50 psi differential. When the flow rate is zero, the fall off
is zero. So, there is no fall off. In this case, what's the pressure of
the system? Is it 50 psi lower than the input pressure (thus, the 50 psi
differential)?

By the way, what I'm interested in is the output pressure when no valve
is open. I just recall I have never mentioned this before.

Now that I'm thinking about this, I wonder how a pressure regulator can
regulate water pressure when no valve is open. A regulator can regulate
water pressure only when at least one valve is open. In such a case, the
regulator limits how much water flows out, thus, regulating the water
pressure. If no valve is open the pressure on both ends of the regulator
must be equal. Am I right?

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 12:45:20 PM UTC-5, BurfordTJustice wrote:
Dance little man dance...

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
::
: No, I've never seen a "pressure reducer",.

Fool, look at what I said in context. The OP was questioning whether
he had a device that:

a- does a reduction in X psi off the incoming pressure and maintains
an x reduction as the input varies. So if you had it set to 20 reduction
you'd get 80 with 100 incoming, 40 with 60 incoming

b - maintains the desired output pressure, eg 60 PSI, as long as the
incoming is at 60 or higher.

I've never seen the "a" device. He has the B device, everyone here agrees
with that and how it works. So, once again, what's your point and
your contribution to AHR? *nothing*

Now go back to posting your alt right crap for your Russian masters.

On 11/13/2017 9:55 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 13-Nov-17 11:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/13/2017 11:50 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:


A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose
output pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main
pressure is, say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50
psi, when the main pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output
pressure would also increase.

Does he make sense?

No, according to this maker's article, he has it backwards.

"Even if the supply water pressure fluctuates, the *pressure
reducing valve* ensures a constant flow of water at a functional
pressure, as long as the supply pressure does not drop below the
valve's pre-set pressure."

http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbou...=64#whatiswprv


I read the article. The article says "ensures a constant flow of
water at a functional pressure". I don't know what a "FUNCTIONAL
PRESSURE" means. Is it "constant pressure" or not? That's what I
want to know.

Define constant.Â* Given the entering pressure may vary it can affect
the leaving predsure a bit.Â* If you take constant as being perfect
all the time thenÂ* no.Â* If you take constant as being withing a
normal tolerance of a few psi in either direction, then yes.
Functional pressure means the variation is minimal and your toilet
flush or dishwasher will still work.Â* A drop from 50 psi to 42 psi is
functional but a drop from 50 to 5 psi is not.

Â*From 50 to 42 is a drop of 16%. That seems quite large to me. An 8%
drop is acceptable to me but maybe I'm an idealist.

What are you basing your conclusion on?Â* Is it because 8% sounds better
than 16%?Â* I'm basing it on operating a manufacturing plant with air,
steam, city water, recirculated water.Â* We probably had 30 or 40
pressure regulators.Â* I often witnessed drops of 25% with no ill
effects.Â* It was a part of normal operations.Â* Machines and appliances
can take a wide variation unless you are doing some scientific experiments.

If a valve downstream is open, the pressure would drop. When I was with
the engineer, I did open a valve and the pressure dropped from 60 to 42
psi. But this is a totally different thing. It's not my concern. My
concern is: if the input pressure increases, would the output pressure
also increase given that the device is set to a certain pressure below
the input pressure?


It sounds to me like your pressure regulator is defective as it is not
maintaining a regulated static pressure.

On 11/13/2017 9:05 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:10:07 +0630, Oumati Asami wrote:

On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt on
the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a water
pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator is a
device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the outgoing
water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main pressure is,
be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also increase.

Does he make sense?

A pressure reducer and a pressure regulator are just different names for the same thing.
In a Navy fire room we called them reducers. All were constant output pressure when
operating. That "engineer" made no sense.


I was wondering when somebody would finally put this "engineer" in quotes.

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 00:52:49 +0630, Oumati Asami wrote:

On 14-Nov-17 12:17 AM, wrote:


I found the make but still need to find out the model number.



Home Depot's web site has a lot of them - after you click on the
product - there is a link to "specifications" that might help.
... graphs for flow characteristics; pressure ranges and limits, etc
Here's just one example ..

https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pd...76134d9f7f.pdf

John T.

Thanks for the link.

I'm not sure how to read the flow rates chart. The legend says it's
based on a 50 psi differential. When the flow rate is zero, the fall off
is zero. So, there is no fall off. In this case, what's the pressure of
the system? Is it 50 psi lower than the input pressure (thus, the 50 psi
differential)?

By the way, what I'm interested in is the output pressure when no valve
is open. I just recall I have never mentioned this before.

Now that I'm thinking about this, I wonder how a pressure regulator can
regulate water pressure when no valve is open. A regulator can regulate
water pressure only when at least one valve is open. In such a case, the
regulator limits how much water flows out, thus, regulating the water
pressure. If no valve is open the pressure on both ends of the regulator
must be equal. Am I right?

You're wrong.

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 1:22:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 14-Nov-17 12:17 AM, wrote:


I found the make but still need to find out the model number.



Home Depot's web site has a lot of them - after you click on the
product - there is a link to "specifications" that might help.
... graphs for flow characteristics; pressure ranges and limits, etc
Here's just one example ..

https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pd...76134d9f7f.pdf

John T.

Thanks for the link.

I'm not sure how to read the flow rates chart. The legend says it's
based on a 50 psi differential. When the flow rate is zero, the fall off
is zero. So, there is no fall off. In this case, what's the pressure of
the system? Is it 50 psi lower than the input pressure (thus, the 50 psi
differential)?


With no flow the output side is at whatever pressure you've dialed in.
The input side is at whatever the supply pressure is, that is at the
dialed in pressure or above. Eg supply side is 100, output is 60.

Those flow charts show the pressure drop across the valve, when it's
wide open, trying to maintain pressure on the house side. For example,
with a 1" valve, at 50 GPM, there would be a 12 PSI drop. So, if you
had the valve set to 60 PSI, with 100 PSI incoming, it would be
maintaining ~ 60 PSI house side. But if the incoming was 65PSI, you'd
have a 12 PSI drop and only ~53PSI on the other side when it was
delivering 50 GPM.



By the way, what I'm interested in is the output pressure when no valve
is open. I just recall I have never mentioned this before.

The output pressure should be whatever you've set the valve to.
That is unless you have a water heater that fires up and increases
the pressure or something like that.





Now that I'm thinking about this, I wonder how a pressure regulator can
regulate water pressure when no valve is open. A regulator can regulate
water pressure only when at least one valve is open. In such a case, the
regulator limits how much water flows out, thus, regulating the water
pressure. If no valve is open the pressure on both ends of the regulator
must be equal. Am I right?

No. The regulator is a valve that closes in response to the house side
pressure. If you stop drawing water, it slowly closes so that only
enough water enters to raise the house side to the desired/set pressure.
That's the whole point, to avoid having high pressure, eg 120 PSI on
the house side when the supply side is at 120PSI. You set it to 60,
you get 60.

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 1:34:42 PM UTC-5, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 11/13/2017 9:05 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:10:07 +0630, Oumati Asami wrote:

On my water pipe system, there is this bell shape thing with a bolt on
the top. I always thought it a water pressure regulator.

The other day, the engineer of my community came to check my water
system. He said that thing is not a water pressure regulator but a water
pressure reducer. According to him, a water pressure regulator is a
device that would keep output water pressure constant. If the outgoing
water pressure is set to, say, 50, no matter what the main pressure is,
be it 100, 90, 80, or 70 psi, the output is always 50 psi.

A water pressure reducer, according to him, is a device whose output
pressure is affected by the input pressure. If the main pressure is,
say, 80 psi, and the output pressure is set to 50 psi, when the main
pressure is increased to 100 psi, the output pressure would also increase.

Does he make sense?

A pressure reducer and a pressure regulator are just different names for the same thing.
In a Navy fire room we called them reducers. All were constant output pressure when
operating. That "engineer" made no sense.


I was wondering when somebody would finally put this "engineer" in quotes.

I claim the credit for being the first one to do that.

I found the make but still need to find out the model number.


Home Depot's web site has a lot of them - after you click on the
product - there is a link to "specifications" that might help.
... graphs for flow characteristics; pressure ranges and limits, etc
Here's just one example ..
https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pd...76134d9f7f.pdf
John T.


Thanks for the link.
Now that I'm thinking about this, I wonder how a pressure regulator can
regulate water pressure when no valve is open.


A couple more web links, found through a very quick google search.

http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbou...s.asp?catId=64

http://apps.watersurplus.com/techlib...spec_D1101.pdf

John T.

On 13-Nov-17 11:48 AM, Oumati Asami wrote:
....

No. That's not what he tried to say. I told him the output pressure
should be constant. He said no. He said the output pressure would be
affected by the input pressure.

To some degree, yes, but for residential regulators of the type the
outlet pressure is much more strongly controlled by the internal flow
pressure drop with flow rate; the pressure drop goes up pretty
drastically with increase flow so the downstream pressure drops. The
point of the regulator isn't so much (actually at all) to keep a
constant downstream pressure as to reduce the maximum pressure to that
which will not be damaging to toilet valves, etc., etc., etc., if used
the distribution pressure that can be quite a bit higher...

He also said the lowest pressure the devise could set to was about 48
psi. I really doubted it. That seems to be quite high for residential
water pressure (not that the pressure is quite high but the lower limit
is quite high). I would think the device could reduce the pressure to 20
psi or lower. But then, I really need to find out the model number and
check the literature.

No, they can be set lower; just how far depends on the spring constant
and design; typically a 50 psi nominal will be able to go to 20 or 30 psi.

A typical data sheet for such a device can be found at
http://www.steamshop.com/ConbracoPDF/36Cseries.pdf

Note on the second page the pressure drop with flow for the typical 50
psi setpoint...

--

replying to trader_4, Iggy wrote:
So, you think the spring (not a rod) is there to do nothing?

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...r-1150841-.htm

On 14-Nov-17 1:13 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 1:22:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 14-Nov-17 12:17 AM, wrote:


I found the make but still need to find out the model number.



Home Depot's web site has a lot of them - after you click on the
product - there is a link to "specifications" that might help.
... graphs for flow characteristics; pressure ranges and limits, etc
Here's just one example ..

https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pd...76134d9f7f.pdf

John T.

Thanks for the link.

I'm not sure how to read the flow rates chart. The legend says it's
based on a 50 psi differential. When the flow rate is zero, the fall off
is zero. So, there is no fall off. In this case, what's the pressure of
the system? Is it 50 psi lower than the input pressure (thus, the 50 psi
differential)?


With no flow the output side is at whatever pressure you've dialed in.
The input side is at whatever the supply pressure is, that is at the
dialed in pressure or above. Eg supply side is 100, output is 60.

Those flow charts show the pressure drop across the valve, when it's
wide open, trying to maintain pressure on the house side. For example,
with a 1" valve, at 50 GPM, there would be a 12 PSI drop. So, if you
had the valve set to 60 PSI, with 100 PSI incoming, it would be
maintaining ~ 60 PSI house side. But if the incoming was 65PSI, you'd
have a 12 PSI drop and only ~53PSI on the other side when it was
delivering 50 GPM.



By the way, what I'm interested in is the output pressure when no valve
is open. I just recall I have never mentioned this before.

The output pressure should be whatever you've set the valve to.
That is unless you have a water heater that fires up and increases
the pressure or something like that.





Now that I'm thinking about this, I wonder how a pressure regulator can
regulate water pressure when no valve is open. A regulator can regulate
water pressure only when at least one valve is open. In such a case, the
regulator limits how much water flows out, thus, regulating the water
pressure. If no valve is open the pressure on both ends of the regulator
must be equal. Am I right?

No. The regulator is a valve that closes in response to the house side
pressure. If you stop drawing water, it slowly closes so that only
enough water enters to raise the house side to the desired/set pressure.
That's the whole point, to avoid having high pressure, eg 120 PSI on
the house side when the supply side is at 120PSI. You set it to 60,
you get 60.

Good. That's the result I want to see.

On 14-Nov-17 1:13 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 1:22:55 PM UTC-5, Oumati Asami wrote:
On 14-Nov-17 12:17 AM, wrote:


I found the make but still need to find out the model number.



Home Depot's web site has a lot of them - after you click on the
product - there is a link to "specifications" that might help.
... graphs for flow characteristics; pressure ranges and limits, etc
Here's just one example ..

https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pd...76134d9f7f.pdf

John T.

Thanks for the link.

I'm not sure how to read the flow rates chart. The legend says it's
based on a 50 psi differential. When the flow rate is zero, the fall off
is zero. So, there is no fall off. In this case, what's the pressure of
the system? Is it 50 psi lower than the input pressure (thus, the 50 psi
differential)?


With no flow the output side is at whatever pressure you've dialed in.
The input side is at whatever the supply pressure is, that is at the
dialed in pressure or above. Eg supply side is 100, output is 60.

Those flow charts show the pressure drop across the valve, when it's
wide open, trying to maintain pressure on the house side. For example,
with a 1" valve, at 50 GPM, there would be a 12 PSI drop. So, if you
had the valve set to 60 PSI, with 100 PSI incoming, it would be
maintaining ~ 60 PSI house side. But if the incoming was 65PSI, you'd
have a 12 PSI drop and only ~53PSI on the other side when it was
delivering 50 GPM.



By the way, what I'm interested in is the output pressure when no valve
is open. I just recall I have never mentioned this before.

The output pressure should be whatever you've set the valve to.
That is unless you have a water heater that fires up and increases
the pressure or something like that.





Now that I'm thinking about this, I wonder how a pressure regulator can
regulate water pressure when no valve is open. A regulator can regulate
water pressure only when at least one valve is open. In such a case, the
regulator limits how much water flows out, thus, regulating the water
pressure. If no valve is open the pressure on both ends of the regulator
must be equal. Am I right?

No. The regulator is a valve that closes in response to the house side
pressure. If you stop drawing water, it slowly closes so that only
enough water enters to raise the house side to the desired/set pressure.
That's the whole point, to avoid having high pressure, eg 120 PSI on
the house side when the supply side is at 120PSI. You set it to 60,
you get 60.

Thanks for taking time to explain it.

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 4:14:06 PM UTC-5, Iggy wrote:
replying to trader_4, Iggy wrote:
So, you think the spring (not a rod) is there to do nothing?

--


I never said or implied anything like that. And again, if you had the courtesy to quote WTF you're replying to, people could easily see that.

On 11/13/2017 04:14 PM, Iggy wrote:


replying to trader_4, Iggy wrote:
So, you think the spring (not a rod) is there to do nothing?



A spring-rod is a device that blends air and water in the proper ratio so replace the spring-rod limit control SCR relay. A multi-rod spring systems moving water covers all your options.Â*









--Â*
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...r-1150841-.htm

Now that I'm thinking about this, I wonder how a pressure regulator can
regulate water pressure when no valve is open. A regulator can regulate
water pressure only when at least one valve is open. In such a case, the
regulator limits how much water flows out, thus, regulating the water
pressure. If no valve is open the pressure on both ends of the regulator
must be equal. Am I right?

Partially right.

the first sign of an internally leaking regulator is that it can no longer regulate the pressure when there is no flow.

when there is no flow if there is even a tiny leak in the regulator the output pressure will eventually rise to equal the input pressure.

yes the valve inside the regulator has to seal perfectly closed to hold the pressure when there is no flow.


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