I subscribed to their newsgroup mostly to learn more about HVAC so that when
the techs come to work on mine I won't think they are speaking Cantonese.
What I found was reply after reply of garbage. If they don't want people
posting questions about ACs and furnaces what is the point of the newsgroup?
Spreading ways to screw home moaners as they call us? Sorry but I had to
vent after unsubscribing earlier from that newsgroup. No info just buttheads
spouting off.

Ya think that's bad? Try rec.skydiving! Tom
Work at your leisure!

If it said alt HVAC a Pro discussion group , it might be more
understandable but one there has nothing better to do and cant
understand everything changes. Aholes will be Aholes.

Aholes will be Aholes.

You should know.

"Old Arty Boy" wrote in message
...


Aholes will be Aholes.

You should know.

ransley is one of the biggest aholes in here
next to you Old Arty Boy (you are still #1)

"Neu tered Arty Boy" wrote
next to you Old Arty Boy (you are still #1)

I strive to be #1 in everything.

Ya' know what, folks...

I've asked some pretty good questions and gotten some really good answers
from the people over at HVAC. Many times, the first reply will refer you
here, to the proper forum for homeowners asking questions.

The HVAC newsgroup was established for trades people who need to exchange
technical knowledge... and even BS once in a while. It is a true "community"
like Usenet founders intended.

Many of the very knowledgeable people there also try to watch this groups'
postings and, to my knowledge, give respectful and reasonable answers here.

BTW, I'm not in the HVAC trade... I'm an electrician and I'll add my two
cents worth here as well. If you check my postings you'll find that I try to
be informative with the knowledge I can offer... as many of the HVAC guys
do.... here. There are also at least a couple of very good electrical people
participating.

The problem arises when somebody posts into HVAC and asks a question that
belongs here.. then they get upset and (for a better term) "****y".

Trades people spent a lot of time and energy learning what they know, and
you must respect that. You must also respect that there are some things you
can do yourselves, and others which require the expertise of a pro. I know
when I mention the technical or safety aspects of attempting to do something
that really requires a professional's knowledge, some people accuse me of
trying to steer them toward a pro for monetary gain.

Come on now, none of us would be posting to the group if we didn't just want
to help... it'd be much easier to ignore everybody and go about our
business.

We're trying to promote an understanding of what you can do yourself and
what you can not.

Please take note of the advice... for it is not-for-profit.... just good
sense.

Jake





"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
If it said alt HVAC a Pro discussion group , it might be more
understandable but one there has nothing better to do and cant
understand everything changes. Aholes will be Aholes.

"Jake" wrote in message
news:2J2Ec.126165$HG.22943@attbi_s53...
sniped the groveling

Please take note of the advice... for it is not-for-profit.... just good
sense.

too bad you don't have common sense
everything must turn a profit
otherwise you are just wasting your time!

"New Arty Boy" wrote in message
...

"Jake" wrote in message
news:2J2Ec.126165$HG.22943@attbi_s53...
sniped the groveling

Please take note of the advice... for it is not-for-profit.... just good
sense.

too bad you don't have common sense
everything must turn a profit
otherwise you are just wasting your time!



Hey Einstein....if a person in California tells someone from Vermont that
they should hire an electrician, how does the guy in CA turn a profit?

"New Arty Boy" wrote in message
...

"Jake" wrote in message
news:2J2Ec.126165$HG.22943@attbi_s53...
sniped the groveling

Please take note of the advice... for it is not-for-profit.... just good
sense.

too bad you don't have common sense
everything must turn a profit
otherwise you are just wasting your time!



Hey Einstein....if a person in California tells someone from Vermont that
they should hire an electrician, how does the guy in CA turn a profit?

comments about HVAC people snipped

I am a welder. I find HVAC people and welders to be likeminded:

When you are finished screwing it up, bring what's left to me, and I will
fix it. ................... if there's enough left.

When you know something inside and out and are good at it, you get an
attitude. When I hear welding discussed, I don't even mention that I am a
weldor. Weldor as in thirty years of doing it, not welder as in I have all
the gear and can strike an arc. I love to listen to people stick their feet
in their mouths. To spout insane stuff. To make fools of themselves. To
be entertaining enough to laugh out loud at.

I imagine HVAC people are the same. You just keep quiet and listen.

But when someone calls you to go fix their stuff, it is harder to sit and
listen to them spout and run off at the mouth and tell you what to do. My
price usually doubles when this starts, and my availability diminishes.

Love to help you, but I'm busy.

Busy with people who will just show me what they need done and pay me.

Talk is cheap. You have to pay for performance.

Steve

Well needless to say the nuts followed me here. I guess from what I have
been told now that the originator of the group mislabeled it and it should
have been named alt.hvac.pro or something close to it. Using profanity
because someone asks if a certain unit being quoted to them is right is the
work of juveniles. If you are so worried about people learning about your
industry that you use vulgarity you are juvenile or just very paranoid. I
never posted on the group but just from reading the posts I figured out very
quick that it was not a nice place. It made me leary of letting in anybody
with the term HVAC on their uniform, lol. Not a very good ambassador for
your indistry at all. As for working on the unit myself I would have never
thought about that. Freon is not something I would ever mess with. With some
of the language on that group it makes me think freon also makes you a
neanderthal.

"Tommy & Megan Price" wrote in message
.. .
Well needless to say the nuts followed me here.

Actually...learn how to use Google, and find out that we have been here...as
this is the proper group for questions from homeowners...

Ive been here...your posting history here..well..its got 2 posts...wow.


I guess from what I have
been told now that the originator of the group mislabeled it and it should
have been named alt.hvac.pro or something close to it.


Nope. Back in the day, before most of the world knew what the internet was,
much less how to get to Usenet, and people respected the opinions of the
founders and the FAQ, it was as it was intended. Still is, but some refuse
to understand that, and think that just because it is there, its for their
use.


Using profanity
because someone asks if a certain unit being quoted to them is right is
the
work of juveniles.

So is crying and whining about not getting an answer, or barging in the
wrong area and it not catering to you.


If you are so worried about people learning about your
industry that you use vulgarity you are juvenile or just very paranoid.

Nope. I have said time, and time and time again that it would be fine if
every homeowner could work on his system legally.
Here in my state, thats not the case, nor is it the case in many areas.

Vulgarity? Are you THAT thin skinned or just that ****ing prude?

Thats sarcasm...but I doubt you get it.


I
never posted on the group but just from reading the posts I figured out
very
quick that it was not a nice place. It made me leary of letting in anybody
with the term HVAC on their uniform, lol.

Thats funny...in some parts of the country, many of us are leary when anyone
states they got information off the net, since most people will listen to
people like Dave and Stormy, who give dangerous and wrong advice out.

Not a very good ambassador for
your indistry at all.

But pedophile Dave is...ok...
Personally...if the internet went away tomorrow, I still would have all the
work I can stand. So...its not a matter of is you like what I post, provided
that the information you get, based upon the fact that your situation might
be different due to your screwing with it, or someone that thinks hes got a
clue screwing with your unit, is based soley on the fact that its an
educated guess as to what is wrong with it.
Facts are, NO ONE on the internet can tell you what is wrong with your unit,
unless they can see it. Period. its that damn simple..

As for working on the unit myself I would have never
thought about that. Freon is not something I would ever mess with.

I would hope not...since we work with REFRIGERANTS, and the only FREON we
mess with has the name of DuPont on it.
Think about that, what you have posted, and try to understand...thats a
learning experence there..not a slam.

With some
of the language on that group it makes me think freon also makes you a
neanderthal.



Thats ok bucky...with the sob story you posted here, most of us over there
think you are a prick that we would walk off the site and tell you that your
money inst wanted, nor needed to survive.
If you want to understand, I suggest you learn to use Google.

Good grief. More of the same. I am not moaning or groaning. Just posting an
observation. I sure as hell didn't barge in there with a question. I am the
type who listens/reads and thinks before opening my mouth. I could tell very
quickly that people with questions there were not welcome. To have to call
people Fing idiots or corksuckers when informing them that they are not
welcome is juvenile. End of story.

Good grief. More of the same. I am not moaning or groaning. Just posting an
observation. I sure as hell didn't barge in there with a question. I am the
type who listens/reads and thinks before opening my mouth. I could tell very
quickly that people with questions there were not welcome. To have to call
people Fing idiots or corksuckers when informing them that they are not
welcome is juvenile. End of story.

There are social misfits no matter where you go. Seems to be many of them
there but certainly not all of them. It is probably just a couple people
being rude. That group is really meant for people in the HVAC industry.

John

"Tommy & Megan Price" wrote in message
.. .
I subscribed to their newsgroup mostly to learn more about HVAC so that
when
the techs come to work on mine I won't think they are speaking Cantonese.
What I found was reply after reply of garbage. If they don't want people
posting questions about ACs and furnaces what is the point of the
newsgroup?
Spreading ways to screw home moaners as they call us? Sorry but I had to
vent after unsubscribing earlier from that newsgroup. No info just
buttheads
spouting off.

"jriegle" wrote in message ...
There are social misfits no matter where you go. Seems to be many of them
there but certainly not all of them. It is probably just a couple people
being rude. That group is really meant for people in the HVAC industry.

John


This is Turtle.

WOW , We found a smart one that figured it out. I think your the only home owner or Non-HVAC people of this thread that is smart
enough to understand what is going on here. Watch out here by telling the trueth for you will be called a AHOLE. Everybody want to
be Babied and told what they want to hear and not the Trueth.


Any Poster or Home Owner or HVAC person that will cheat any customer out of a dime. We give him / her / whoever ''''''' HELL '''''''
! When we see a Hack The Big Teeth and loud mouths go to going. It would make my day and even my year to see a Hack / Con HVAC
fellow go out of business. The Loud voices your seeing over at alt.hvac is 3 hacks are possing as HVAC contractor and tring to get
in the Group to sell junk. HVAC Contractor have a big mouth when they see a Hack HVAC Person.

TURTLE


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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snipped turtles ass kissing again

HVAC Contractor have a big mouth when they see a Hack HVAC Person.

TURTLE


as I see it
ALL HVAC CONTRACTORS ARE HACKS

motto
have sawsall ........will travel.

BTW
if you are slow turtle
there is a "special ed" in the house you can hook up with

"New Arty Boy" wrote in message ...
snipped turtles ass kissing again

HVAC Contractor have a big mouth when they see a Hack HVAC Person.

TURTLE


as I see it
ALL HVAC CONTRACTORS ARE HACKS

motto
have sawsall ........will travel.

BTW
if you are slow turtle
there is a "special ed" in the house you can hook up with

This is Turtle.

I will say about 1/2 of HVAC contractor are either Stupit or a Hack but there is still the other half that is Different.

TURTLE


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Version: 6.0.711 / Virus Database: 467 - Release Date: 6/25/2004

I noticed that myself. There's a couple of frequent posters to hvac
questions that make me think
that Freon causes obnoxious behavior.

"Tommy & Megan Price" wrote in message
.. .
I subscribed to their newsgroup mostly to learn more about HVAC so that
when
the techs come to work on mine I won't think they are speaking Cantonese.
What I found was reply after reply of garbage. If they don't want people
posting questions about ACs and furnaces what is the point of the
newsgroup?
Spreading ways to screw home moaners as they call us? Sorry but I had to
vent after unsubscribing earlier from that newsgroup. No info just
buttheads
spouting off.

"bill allemann" wrote in message
m...
I noticed that myself. There's a couple of frequent posters to hvac
questions that make me think
that Freon causes obnoxious behavior.

"Tommy & Megan Price" wrote in message
.. .
I subscribed to their newsgroup mostly to learn more about HVAC so that
when
the techs come to work on mine I won't think they are speaking
Cantonese.
What I found was reply after reply of garbage. If they don't want people
posting questions about ACs and furnaces what is the point of the
newsgroup?
Spreading ways to screw home moaners as they call us? Sorry but I had to
vent after unsubscribing earlier from that newsgroup. No info just
buttheads
spouting off.


My short visit there was one of the most unpleasant of any groups I've ever
visited. Their little club seems to have a closed membership.

"Special Ed" wrote in message
hlink.net...

My short visit there was one of the most unpleasant of any groups I've
ever
visited. Their little club seems to have a closed membership.


and your open mouth makes you "special ed"

"New Arty Boy" wrote in message
...

"Special Ed" wrote in message
hlink.net...

My short visit there was one of the most unpleasant of any groups I've
ever
visited. Their little club seems to have a closed membership.


and your open mouth makes you "special ed"

You're name calling suits you better on the playground.

Special Ed wrote:
"New Arty Boy" wrote in message
...

"Special Ed" wrote in message
rthlink.net...


My short visit there was one of the most unpleasant of any groups I've

ever

visited. Their little club seems to have a closed membership.



and your open mouth makes you "special ed"


You're name calling suits you better on the playground.


Aw, give Arty a break, 'cause he's here to stay.

Its just that his entire alimentary tract got reversed during his fetal
development.

Jeff

P.S. You would have found much the same ambience at
pdaxs.services.plumbing. It's like deja vu to your average middle school
cafeteria. A few nice guys being helpful to someone who posts an
intelligent question, and a whole bunch of bullies trying to out
wisecrack each other.

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

Tommy & Megan Price wrote:

I subscribed to their newsgroup mostly to learn more about HVAC so that when
the techs come to work on mine I won't think they are speaking Cantonese.
What I found was reply after reply of garbage. If they don't want people
posting questions about ACs and furnaces what is the point of the newsgroup?
Spreading ways to screw home moaners as they call us? Sorry but I had to
vent after unsubscribing earlier from that newsgroup. No info just buttheads
spouting off.

Agreed.

For info from HVAC professionals, check out the "Residential Forum" on
the HVAC-Talk website. Here's the link:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1

Can you imagine having to actually call any of these "professionals" to work
on something in your home? Yikes!

They're total morons.......


"Tommy & Megan Price" wrote in message
.. .
I subscribed to their newsgroup mostly to learn more about HVAC so that
when
the techs come to work on mine I won't think they are speaking Cantonese.
What I found was reply after reply of garbage. If they don't want people
posting questions about ACs and furnaces what is the point of the
newsgroup?
Spreading ways to screw home moaners as they call us? Sorry but I had to
vent after unsubscribing earlier from that newsgroup. No info just
buttheads
spouting off.

"art" wrote in message
...
Can you imagine having to actually call any of these "professionals" to
work
on something in your home? Yikes!

They're total morons.......

the funny part is...........
you probably have hired these idiots and you don't even know it.

"Tommy & Megan Price" wrote in message
.. .
I subscribed to their newsgroup mostly to learn more about HVAC so that
when
the techs come to work on mine I won't think they are speaking Cantonese.
What I found was reply after reply of garbage. If they don't want people
posting questions about ACs and furnaces what is the point of the
newsgroup?
Spreading ways to screw home moaners as they call us? Sorry but I had to
vent after unsubscribing earlier from that newsgroup. No info just
buttheads
spouting off.



I can be an ass in here too, and had you bothered, you would have found out
that the group isnt for homeowners.

Difference is, this is the place for such discussions, not there.

Real damn simple.

Oh..I didnt see a post from you in there...and HAD you asked correctly, you
would have found that you didnt get jumped on...

There are several of us in there that post in here....but...thats changing
rapidly as well...

In alt.home.repair
"Tommy & Megan Price" wrote:

I subscribed to their newsgroup mostly to learn more about HVAC so that when
the techs come to work on mine I won't think they are speaking Cantonese.
What I found was reply after reply of garbage. If they don't want people
posting questions about ACs and furnaces what is the point of the newsgroup?
Spreading ways to screw home moaners as they call us? Sorry but I had to
vent after unsubscribing earlier from that newsgroup. No info just buttheads
spouting off.

You haven't exactly gotten away from the HVAC aholes by coming here, we
have our share of them. I'm not 100% why they act that way, I think there
are a few reasons but some of them a

1. They want to keep you stupid about AC so they can continue to ream you.

2. They feel that if you do your own work, you're taking money out of
their pocket.

3. They want you to think it is illegal for you to fix your own AC.

4. As another guy said, maybe Freon causes strange aggressive behavior?

PS: To save some HVAC guys the trouble, they will now post that they LOVE
when we work on our own ACs because it ultimately results in a bigger
repair bill for them. I've not paid a dime to an HVAC guy in 18 years of
home ownership including 2 full AC installations, a fan motor repair,
clogged and dirty evap coils and thermostat replacements. I never will.

"Bruce" wrote


PS: To save some HVAC guys the trouble, they will now post that they LOVE
when we work on our own ACs because it ultimately results in a bigger
repair bill for them. I've not paid a dime to an HVAC guy in 18 years of
home ownership including 2 full AC installations, a fan motor repair,
clogged and dirty evap coils and thermostat replacements. I never will.

Shall we have someone send you a cookie? Don't you perform regular
maintenance on your equipement and install quality air filters when you
change the systems out? Why would you have a clogged evap? How many
thermostats do you change out until you find the real problem?

This could go on forever. I'm very sorry someone had a less than favorable
experience in a group that wasn't and isn't intended for them. I'll sleep
better tonight knowing they got to vent and you got to puff up your chest,
maybe you could go help them solve all their heating and cooling problems
yourself.

- Robert

"Bruce" wrote in message
. ..
In alt.home.repair
"Tommy & Megan Price" wrote:

I subscribed to their newsgroup mostly to learn more about HVAC so that
when
the techs come to work on mine I won't think they are speaking Cantonese.
What I found was reply after reply of garbage. If they don't want people
posting questions about ACs and furnaces what is the point of the
newsgroup?
Spreading ways to screw home moaners as they call us? Sorry but I had to
vent after unsubscribing earlier from that newsgroup. No info just
buttheads
spouting off.

You haven't exactly gotten away from the HVAC aholes by coming here, we
have our share of them. I'm not 100% why they act that way, I think there
are a few reasons but some of them a

1. They want to keep you stupid about AC so they can continue to ream
you.

2. They feel that if you do your own work, you're taking money out of
their pocket.

3. They want you to think it is illegal for you to fix your own AC.

4. As another guy said, maybe Freon causes strange aggressive behavior?

PS: To save some HVAC guys the trouble, they will now post that they LOVE
when we work on our own ACs because it ultimately results in a bigger
repair bill for them. I've not paid a dime to an HVAC guy in 18 years of
home ownership including 2 full AC installations, a fan motor repair,
clogged and dirty evap coils and thermostat replacements. I never will.



Hi, Bruce.

We have a heat pump in our shop, but lately it seems to getting pretty hot
in there during the daytime--do you think maybe I if I changed the setting
on the thermostat from "auto" over to "cool" it might help some ???

Oh, and there is no ductwork installed at all, which seems odd to me--so I
was wondering should there be at least some ducts for a large open space,
and if so, how much should those cost me ???

BTW, I think the insulation is pretty good, and I could probably install any
neded ductwork myself if I only knew how.

Thanks in advance!!!

--

SVL

In alt.home.repair
"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote:

We have a heat pump in our shop, but lately it seems to getting pretty hot
in there during the daytime--do you think maybe I if I changed the setting
on the thermostat from "auto" over to "cool" it might help some ???

Oh, and there is no ductwork installed at all, which seems odd to me--so I
was wondering should there be at least some ducts for a large open space,
and if so, how much should those cost me ???

BTW, I think the insulation is pretty good, and I could probably install any
neded ductwork myself if I only knew how.

Thanks in advance!!!

I don't go for dead bait and lures. You need to put something that is
still moving on the hook Anyway, I ain't here to help my fellow man
with his AC problems, it is hard work. I'm here for me.

"Bruce" wrote in message
. ..
In alt.home.repair
"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote:

We have a heat pump in our shop, but lately it seems to getting pretty
hot
in there during the daytime--do you think maybe I if I changed the
setting
on the thermostat from "auto" over to "cool" it might help some ???

Oh, and there is no ductwork installed at all, which seems odd to me--so
I
was wondering should there be at least some ducts for a large open space,
and if so, how much should those cost me ???

BTW, I think the insulation is pretty good, and I could probably install
any
neded ductwork myself if I only knew how.

Thanks in advance!!!

I don't go for dead bait and lures. You need to put something that is
still moving on the hook Anyway, I ain't here to help my fellow man
with his AC problems, it is hard work. I'm here for me.


Very well then--I think I probly made my point, at least with you.

Cheers,

--

SVL

"Bruce" wrote in message
. ..
In alt.home.repair
"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote:

We have a heat pump in our shop, but lately it seems to getting pretty
hot
in there during the daytime--do you think maybe I if I changed the
setting
on the thermostat from "auto" over to "cool" it might help some ???

Oh, and there is no ductwork installed at all, which seems odd to me--so
I
was wondering should there be at least some ducts for a large open space,
and if so, how much should those cost me ???

BTW, I think the insulation is pretty good, and I could probably install
any
neded ductwork myself if I only knew how.

Thanks in advance!!!

I don't go for dead bait and lures. You need to put something that is
still moving on the hook Anyway, I ain't here to help my fellow man
with his AC problems, it is hard work. I'm here for me.

God almighty...

I cant stop laughing over this one.

Looks like a point was made, and the fella didnt see it on the way..

Tommy & Megan Price wrote:

I subscribed to their newsgroup mostly to learn more about HVAC so that when
the techs come to work on mine I won't think they are speaking Cantonese.
What I found was reply after reply of garbage. If they don't want people
posting questions about ACs and furnaces what is the point of the newsgroup?
Spreading ways to screw home moaners as they call us? Sorry but I had to
vent after unsubscribing earlier from that newsgroup. No info just buttheads
spouting off.
Yes, and they say: "call a professional" and they really think that
they are professional????? come on.. you are right a bunch of butt
holes... would be a better word.......

"Tommy & Megan Price" wrote in message .. .
I subscribed to their newsgroup mostly to learn more about HVAC so that when
the techs come to work on mine I won't think they are speaking Cantonese.
What I found was reply after reply of garbage. If they don't want people
posting questions about ACs and furnaces what is the point of the newsgroup?
Spreading ways to screw home moaners as they call us? Sorry but I had to
vent after unsubscribing earlier from that newsgroup. No info just buttheads
spouting off.


This is Turtle.

First your suppose to go here to alt.home.repair to ask questions and if they can't answer it to your liking. Come over to alt.hvac
but about 15 or so HVAC contractor are here answering questions IF YOU ASK ONE. I did a search and I see you did not ask any
question at all but here starting to explain the defects of the newsgroups. We know what the problem is but can you help us any at
all in correcting the problem.

Second Sorry that you do not have a tuff enough skin to look over the bull and see to what you want.

Third If you really have a Question. i will answer in the best way I know how and have about 40 something years in the business to
draw from. Also I don't use bad words of insults to speak to anybody except a Troll or HACK. Ask Away.

TURTLE


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.711 / Virus Database: 467 - Release Date: 6/25/2004

oh look
turtle came out of his shell

If you really have a Question. i will answer in the best way I know how
and have about 40 something years in the business to
draw from. Also I don't use bad words of insults to speak to anybody
except a Troll or HACK. Ask Away.

"New Arty Boy" wrote in message ...
oh look
turtle came out of his shell

If you really have a Question. i will answer in the best way I know how
and have about 40 something years in the business to
draw from. Also I don't use bad words of insults to speak to anybody
except a Troll or HACK. Ask Away.



This is Turtle.

Well if you would look at my posting history you will see I post to the newsgroups a little over 3,000 to 4,000 times a years and
about 3/4 of them are to question askers that are Home Owner and HVAC techs. I can't post anymore without going full time at it. I
have this thing about eating and need to make some money to keep eating. I can't help it my mother started me on this habit and I
just can't break it.

TURTLE






---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.711 / Virus Database: 467 - Release Date: 6/25/2004

In article ,
"TURTLE" wrote:

Second Sorry that you do not have a tuff enough skin to look over the bull
and see to what you want.

Third If you really have a Question. i will answer in the best way I know
how and have about 40 something years in the business to
draw from. Also I don't use bad words of insults to speak to anybody except a
Troll or HACK.

But why feel the need to "use bad words or insults" to anyone? Certainly
not professional, and doesn't enhance your credibility one bit.

Note that this group is for people looking for answers about repair on
their homes, not a mosh pit for barfights among tradespeople.

Non-trades people, (like myself) don't need to see the flamewars between
"experts."

--
To reply by email, replace the word "space" with "renault"

Non-trades people, (like myself) don't need to see the flamewars between
"experts."

I'm sorry you do see that, Kurt... I've been guilty of it myself.

The reason (not excuse) for it is that skilled trade people are often
passionate about their jobs. We wouldn't put up with the stuff we do if we
weren't.

When you see these flame wars, it's usually because someone who purports to
be an "expert" is giving out totally wrong and potentially dangerous
information.

That is viewed as an insult to us and serious disservice to you.

Many, many times these flame wars are filled with a lot of great technical
information, though.

If you don't understand the discussion, feel free to jump on in!! We'd love
to convince another group member.

Jake