About a year ago, I had to have a new water heater installed in my dad's
home. It was in an emergency, so I hired the first, reputable company
in the area that could come out to do the job. I'll call them Big
Brown. It was a big, 50 year old well known company who had done minor
work for my dad before. It was expensive, though, especially when they
brought the water heater it up to code. Along with the water heater
came a one year maintenence contract whereby they would come by to
inspect the water heater in a year. Little did I know that it was less
of an inspection of the water heater itself, but more of an inspection
of both the inside and outside plumbing with a sales pitch to do more
work.

So, they came out last week, and I told them the water heater was
working just fine. Then they began looking around, inside and out, to
see what else might need their 'attention'.

The home has two bathrooms. Each bathroom was remodeled when my dad
moved in around 1987. The toilet colors match the tub and counter
colors, which is not white. One is grey, the other is sort of pinky-
beige. They both look nice in their surroundings, and really don't look
dated. (I wouldn't care if they did.)

Anyway...I think the toilets work just fine. I replaced the tank
innards about a year or so ago, when I started taking care of my dad's
house. Big Brown told me that both toilets should be replaced because
they flushed slow. Huh? Looks fine to me, especially since they always
work. Only very infrequently do I ever have to plunge a toilet, but
when I do, I can see why. Big Brown told me that the throat of the
toilets was getting build up and that makes them begin to flush slower.
I said if that's true, why not just take the toilet out, clean the
throat, and reinstall. Well ,Big Brown was of course prepared for every
do-it-yoursself homeowner's objection. "That only works for a while, you
can't all the built up gunk out, you might crack the bowl, and it's just
plain old and the newer ones are much better and use less water. I'm
not worried about any of that.

They would replace each toilet with their low end, elongated Toto, in
white (wouldn't match colors in bathrooms). The cost would be $750
each.

I have a $650 Toto toilet in my own home, installed by me two years ago.
It flushes great. It's only clogged twice by my kids. It doesn't have
a heated seat, it doesn't was butts, and it doesn't light up, but it
does have a slow close lid.

So, if I HAD to replace a toilet, I would get one that has a good
reputation, but not because some toilet salesman told me it was flushing
slow.

Do toilets wear out like Big Brown said?

On 4/20/2017 7:53 PM, Boris wrote:


So, they came out last week, and I told them the water heater was
working just fine. Then they began looking around, inside and out, to
see what else might need their 'attention'.

The home has two bathrooms. Each bathroom was remodeled when my dad
moved in around 1987. The toilet colors match the tub and counter
colors, which is not white. One is grey, the other is sort of pinky-
beige. They both look nice in their surroundings, and really don't look
dated. (I wouldn't care if they did.)

Anyway...I think the toilets work just fine. I replaced the tank
innards about a year or so ago, when I started taking care of my dad's
house. Big Brown told me that both toilets should be replaced because
they flushed slow. Huh? Looks fine to me, especially since they always
work. Only very infrequently do I ever have to plunge a toilet, but
when I do, I can see why. Big Brown told me that the throat of the
toilets was getting build up and that makes them begin to flush slower.
I said if that's true, why not just take the toilet out, clean the
throat, and reinstall. Well ,Big Brown was of course prepared for every
do-it-yoursself homeowner's objection. "That only works for a while, you
can't all the built up gunk out, you might crack the bowl, and it's just
plain old and the newer ones are much better and use less water. I'm
not worried about any of that.

They would replace each toilet with their low end, elongated Toto, in
white (wouldn't match colors in bathrooms). The cost would be $750
each.

Don't walk away, run away.

Toilets often get mineral buildup in the holes in the rim and that can
slow flushing. Do a Google search and you will find a lot of information
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qleu_GreXZw

My guess is a good cleaning will keep them going for years to come.

Ed Pawlowski wrote in :

On 4/20/2017 7:53 PM, Boris wrote:


So, they came out last week, and I told them the water heater was
working just fine. Then they began looking around, inside and out,
to see what else might need their 'attention'.

The home has two bathrooms. Each bathroom was remodeled when my dad
moved in around 1987. The toilet colors match the tub and counter
colors, which is not white. One is grey, the other is sort of pinky-
beige. They both look nice in their surroundings, and really don't
look dated. (I wouldn't care if they did.)

Anyway...I think the toilets work just fine. I replaced the tank
innards about a year or so ago, when I started taking care of my
dad's house. Big Brown told me that both toilets should be replaced
because they flushed slow. Huh? Looks fine to me, especially since
they always work. Only very infrequently do I ever have to plunge a
toilet, but when I do, I can see why. Big Brown told me that the
throat of the toilets was getting build up and that makes them begin
to flush slower. I said if that's true, why not just take the toilet
out, clean the throat, and reinstall. Well ,Big Brown was of course
prepared for every do-it-yoursself homeowner's objection. "That only
works for a while, you can't all the built up gunk out, you might
crack the bowl, and it's just plain old and the newer ones are much
better and use less water. I'm not worried about any of that.

They would replace each toilet with their low end, elongated Toto, in
white (wouldn't match colors in bathrooms). The cost would be $750
each.

Don't walk away, run away.

Toilets often get mineral buildup in the holes in the rim and that can
slow flushing. Do a Google search and you will find a lot of
information https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qleu_GreXZw

My guess is a good cleaning will keep them going for years to come.



Run! Yep. That was my thought, too. Not to mention that both toilets
are perfectly clean, in like-new condition, with no mineral stains or
other crappy stains. What Big Brown was trying to convince me of was
that the throat of the bowl was clogged because he (not me) thought the
bowl evacuated too slowly.

He also wanted to install a pressure regulator on the line to the house
for $750 because the pressure was 100 psi, and it's dangerous to have
more than 85 psi, because I could blow valves in the house. I love the
pressure, and I don't see gushers in the neighorhood.

Next, he wanted to replace a beautiful Price Pfister sink lav set, which
matched the tub/shower set, with a Delta set, because it was damp under
the cold water handle, even though there was no dampness under the
cabinet. He said the cartridge had a slow leak. I didn't see, and
hadn't noticed a thing in 30 years. If true, why not just replace the
cartridge?

Like I said, he came to do a one year inspection on the one year old
water heater, as if something is going to go wrong in one year that I
wouldn't notice and call in. The next time he wants to schedule a
complimentary inspection, I'll just say no.

On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:23:14 PM UTC-4, Boris wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote in :

On 4/20/2017 7:53 PM, Boris wrote:


So, they came out last week, and I told them the water heater was
working just fine. Then they began looking around, inside and out,
to see what else might need their 'attention'.

The home has two bathrooms. Each bathroom was remodeled when my dad
moved in around 1987. The toilet colors match the tub and counter
colors, which is not white. One is grey, the other is sort of pinky-
beige. They both look nice in their surroundings, and really don't
look dated. (I wouldn't care if they did.)

Anyway...I think the toilets work just fine. I replaced the tank
innards about a year or so ago, when I started taking care of my
dad's house. Big Brown told me that both toilets should be replaced
because they flushed slow. Huh? Looks fine to me, especially since
they always work. Only very infrequently do I ever have to plunge a
toilet, but when I do, I can see why. Big Brown told me that the
throat of the toilets was getting build up and that makes them begin
to flush slower. I said if that's true, why not just take the toilet
out, clean the throat, and reinstall. Well ,Big Brown was of course
prepared for every do-it-yoursself homeowner's objection. "That only
works for a while, you can't all the built up gunk out, you might
crack the bowl, and it's just plain old and the newer ones are much
better and use less water. I'm not worried about any of that.

They would replace each toilet with their low end, elongated Toto, in
white (wouldn't match colors in bathrooms). The cost would be $750
each.

Don't walk away, run away.

Toilets often get mineral buildup in the holes in the rim and that can
slow flushing. Do a Google search and you will find a lot of
information https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qleu_GreXZw

My guess is a good cleaning will keep them going for years to come.



Run! Yep. That was my thought, too. Not to mention that both toilets
are perfectly clean, in like-new condition, with no mineral stains or
other crappy stains. What Big Brown was trying to convince me of was
that the throat of the bowl was clogged because he (not me) thought the
bowl evacuated too slowly.

He also wanted to install a pressure regulator on the line to the house
for $750 because the pressure was 100 psi, and it's dangerous to have
more than 85 psi, because I could blow valves in the house. I love the
pressure, and I don't see gushers in the neighorhood.


100 psi is a little high for most household fixtures. I'd look up the specs on your fixtures - especially the water heater - and see what they say about the
recommended pressure. You may not have a catastrophic failure, but your fixtures
may wear out sooner than "normal". You might assume it was just normal wear
and tear, when in reality a lower pressure may have resulted in a longer life.
In addition, high pressure can cause other problems, such as water hammer,
which can lead to leaks.

Didn't you say this all started because of bad water heater? What was the
actual problem? DAGS for water heaters and water pressure. In a closed system
water heaters apparently don't like high pressure and can fail because of it.

As far as "no gushers in the neighborhood", I gotta ask:

Do you know for a fact that none of the other houses have pressure regulators?
Is it possible, based on what you know, that your dad's house is the only one
without a PRV?

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 5:23:14 PM UTC-4, Boris wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

On 4/20/2017 7:53 PM, Boris wrote:


So, they came out last week, and I told them the water heater was
working just fine. Then they began looking around, inside and
out, to see what else might need their 'attention'.

The home has two bathrooms. Each bathroom was remodeled when my
dad moved in around 1987. The toilet colors match the tub and
counter colors, which is not white. One is grey, the other is
sort of pinky- beige. They both look nice in their surroundings,
and really don't look dated. (I wouldn't care if they did.)

Anyway...I think the toilets work just fine. I replaced the tank
innards about a year or so ago, when I started taking care of my
dad's house. Big Brown told me that both toilets should be
replaced because they flushed slow. Huh? Looks fine to me,
especially since they always work. Only very infrequently do I
ever have to plunge a toilet, but when I do, I can see why. Big
Brown told me that the throat of the toilets was getting build up
and that makes them begin to flush slower. I said if that's true,
why not just take the toilet out, clean the throat, and reinstall.
Well ,Big Brown was of course prepared for every do-it-yoursself
homeowner's objection. "That only works for a while, you can't all
the built up gunk out, you might crack the bowl, and it's just
plain old and the newer ones are much better and use less water.
I'm not worried about any of that.

They would replace each toilet with their low end, elongated Toto,
in white (wouldn't match colors in bathrooms). The cost would be
$750 each.

Don't walk away, run away.

Toilets often get mineral buildup in the holes in the rim and that
can slow flushing. Do a Google search and you will find a lot of
information https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qleu_GreXZw

My guess is a good cleaning will keep them going for years to come.



Run! Yep. That was my thought, too. Not to mention that both
toilets are perfectly clean, in like-new condition, with no mineral
stains or other crappy stains. What Big Brown was trying to convince
me of was that the throat of the bowl was clogged because he (not me)
thought the bowl evacuated too slowly.

He also wanted to install a pressure regulator on the line to the
house for $750 because the pressure was 100 psi, and it's dangerous
to have more than 85 psi, because I could blow valves in the house.
I love the pressure, and I don't see gushers in the neighorhood.


100 psi is a little high for most household fixtures. I'd look up the
specs on your fixtures - especially the water heater - and see what
they say about the recommended pressure.

I have all the manuals (and I went online)..install, specs, care, etc,
but the pressure specs aren't listed. I'll have to call the mfg,
Bradford and White.



You may not have a
catastrophic failure, but your fixtures may wear out sooner than
"normal". You might assume it was just normal wear and tear, when in
reality a lower pressure may have resulted in a longer life. In
addition, high pressure can cause other problems, such as water
hammer, which can lead to leaks.

Didn't you say this all started because of bad water heater? What was
the actual problem?

The problem was that the old water heater's pan had rusted through from
sediment accumulation, and was leaking. It was noticed when the person
up in the morning only got luke warm water in the shower. The water
heater was about 10 years old, too, It broke on Memorial Day, and
people were coming. Yikes.

DAGS for water heaters and water pressure. In a
closed system water heaters apparently don't like high pressure and
can fail because of it.

What is "DAGS"? New codes required an expansion tank,whis is a tank the
size of a bbq propane tank, and sits on top of the water heater.


As far as "no gushers in the neighborhood", I gotta ask:

Do you know for a fact that none of the other houses have pressure
regulators? Is it possible, based on what you know, that your dad's
house is the only one without a PRV?

I'll ask neighbors the next time I'm there.

Thanks. All very good questions.

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:53:06 -0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote:


Anyway...I think the toilets work just fine.

I think if they didn't work well, you'd know it.

I replaced the tank
innards about a year or so ago, when I started taking care of my dad's
house. Big Brown told me that both toilets should be replaced because
they flushed slow. Huh?

Let's time them! This reminds me of when I bought a new used car,
and for some silly reason, I wanted to change the fluid. 35 years ago
but the guy at Cottman Transmission in Allentown, Pa. told me changing
the fluid came with a 1-year warranty. Now does that make sense?
Changing the fluid doesn't keep it from breakign for a year.

But to have the warranty first the transmission has to work well now.
And mine didn't they said. What was wrong with it. It was too quiet
when it shifted. I said, I thought it was good to be quiet. Yes,
but this is too quiet, they said.

I complained to whoever one complains to but they said since I hadn't
lost money it wasn't a priority. I do regret not telling him to his
face what a liar he was.

Looks fine to me, especially since they always
work. Only very infrequently do I ever have to plunge a toilet, but
when I do, I can see why.

I don't think that's because of the toilet anyhow. It's because of
what you put down the toilet and because of the pipels. I don't think
any toilet ever gets clogged inside the toilet.

Big Brown told me that the throat of the
toilets was getting build up and that makes them begin to flush slower.
I said if that's true, why not just take the toilet out, clean the
throat, and reinstall. Well ,Big Brown was of course prepared for every
do-it-yoursself homeowner's objection. "That only works for a while, you
can't all the built up gunk out, you might crack the bowl, and it's just
plain old and the newer ones are much better and use less water. I'm
not worried about any of that.

The founder of the company, who built its reputation, died, and either
the son took over, or worse yet, it was sold to people who are willing
to lie to you.

They would replace each toilet with their low end, elongated Toto, in
white (wouldn't match colors in bathrooms). The cost would be $750
each.

I have a $650 Toto toilet in my own home, installed by me two years ago.
It flushes great. It's only clogged twice by my kids. It doesn't have
a heated seat, it doesn't was butts, and it doesn't light up, but it
does have a slow close lid.

So, if I HAD to replace a toilet, I would get one that has a good
reputation, but not because some toilet salesman told me it was flushing
slow.

Do toilets wear out like Big Brown said?

I'm sure they break, but you can tell when the crack goes to the floor
and half of the toilet falls off like an iceberg breaking. Well, I'm
guessign.

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 6:15:32 PM UTC-4, Boris wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

DAGS for water heaters and water pressure. In a
closed system water heaters apparently don't like high pressure and
can fail because of it.

What is "DAGS"?

Do A Google Search

On 4/22/2017 6:12 PM, Boris wrote:


Didn't you say this all started because of bad water heater? What was
the actual problem?

The problem was that the old water heater's pan had rusted through from
sediment accumulation, and was leaking. It was noticed when the person
up in the morning only got luke warm water in the shower. The water
heater was about 10 years old, too, It broke on Memorial Day, and
people were coming. Yikes.

DAGS for water heaters and water pressure. In a
closed system water heaters apparently don't like high pressure and
can fail because of it.

What is "DAGS"? New codes required an expansion tank,whis is a tank the
size of a bbq propane tank, and sits on top of the water heater.


As far as "no gushers in the neighborhood", I gotta ask:

Do you know for a fact that none of the other houses have pressure
regulators? Is it possible, based on what you know, that your dad's
house is the only one without a PRV?

I'll ask neighbors the next time I'm there.

Thanks. All very good questions.


DAGS = Do A Google Search
You will find that many codes have a max of 80 psi and most regulators
are set to 50 psi

Overly high pressure does cause excessive wear on valves and fixtures.

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

On 4/22/2017 6:12 PM, Boris wrote:


Didn't you say this all started because of bad water heater? What
was the actual problem?

The problem was that the old water heater's pan had rusted through
from sediment accumulation, and was leaking. It was noticed when the
person up in the morning only got luke warm water in the shower. The
water heater was about 10 years old, too, It broke on Memorial Day,
and people were coming. Yikes.

DAGS for water heaters and water pressure. In a
closed system water heaters apparently don't like high pressure and
can fail because of it.

What is "DAGS"? New codes required an expansion tank,whis is a tank
the size of a bbq propane tank, and sits on top of the water heater.


As far as "no gushers in the neighborhood", I gotta ask:

Do you know for a fact that none of the other houses have pressure
regulators? Is it possible, based on what you know, that your dad's
house is the only one without a PRV?

I'll ask neighbors the next time I'm there.

Thanks. All very good questions.


DAGS = Do A Google Search
You will find that many codes have a max of 80 psi and most regulators
are set to 50 psi

I didn't look at his pressure meter when he did the pressure test. I'll
do one myself next time I'm up there. I'll also call the county to see
what they require, or have them come out.

My county is 85. My dad lives in a different county.


Overly high pressure does cause excessive wear on valves and fixtures.

replying to Boris, Wreck Diver wrote:
Porcelain in my 30 year old bowl has been spidering for years, finally cracked
so that water was leaking in several places every time you flushed. Had been
flushing slow for years. Replacement was $ 125, wow the new bowls flush fast
and use minimal water. Took about an hour to replace, replaced water supply
too. 1987 stamp in the tank exactly 30 years.

--
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