This isn't a serious problem in need of a solution, but it has my
curiosity up. About 8 years ago, I used rubber bands (#33 whatever
that means) to attach cardboard tags to a dozen water valves to label
them. After installation, the rubber bands were not stretched. In
other words, they were stretched to get them around the valve handle,
but while sitting there for 8 years, they were not stretched. I
recently noticed quite a few of the tags were lying on the floor. When
I investigated, I found that the part of the rubber bands that were in
contact with the metal valves had turned dark brown and very
hard/brittle. The rest of each rubber band looked normal. I just
replaced all of them with new rubber bands from the same box that I
used 8 years ago. I imagine I should just get some twist ties or tie
wraps and use them in the future (if I am still around in another 8
years when they fail again).

I did some googling and found that UV light and cold can harm rubber,
but this location is inside and is in total darkness except for a few
hours a week at most. The room gets very humid in the summer and the
water flowing through the valves is from a water well. So, the valves
are often cooler than ambient and damp. In the winter, the temerature
can get as low as 40 degrees F in that room and the valves would then
be warmer than ambient (although not by very much). So, does anyone
know why the rubber got brittle?

Pat

On 3/12/2017 2:38 PM, Pat wrote:

This isn't a serious problem in need of a solution, but it has my
curiosity up. About 8 years ago, I used rubber bands (#33 whatever
that means) to attach cardboard tags to a dozen water valves to label
them. After installation, the rubber bands were not stretched. In
other words, they were stretched to get them around the valve handle,
but while sitting there for 8 years, they were not stretched. I
recently noticed quite a few of the tags were lying on the floor. When
I investigated, I found that the part of the rubber bands that were in
contact with the metal valves had turned dark brown and very
hard/brittle. The rest of each rubber band looked normal. I just
replaced all of them with new rubber bands from the same box that I
used 8 years ago. I imagine I should just get some twist ties or tie
wraps and use them in the future (if I am still around in another 8
years when they fail again).

I did some googling and found that UV light and cold can harm rubber,
but this location is inside and is in total darkness except for a few
hours a week at most. The room gets very humid in the summer and the
water flowing through the valves is from a water well. So, the valves
are often cooler than ambient and damp. In the winter, the temerature
can get as low as 40 degrees F in that room and the valves would then
be warmer than ambient (although not by very much). So, does anyone
know why the rubber got brittle?

Pat

It's oxidation. Better rubber has antioxidants which retard it. I once
had a pair of cheap bike tires dry rot in a year without ever being
used. Heat and light in garage contribute but oxidation is the
degradation mechanism. Safer for you to use wire bag ties to attach tags.

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 1:38:09 PM UTC-5, Pat wrote:
This isn't a serious problem in need of a solution, but it has my
curiosity up. About 8 years ago, I used rubber bands (#33 whatever
that means) to attach cardboard tags to a dozen water valves to label
them. After installation, the rubber bands were not stretched. In
other words, they were stretched to get them around the valve handle,
but while sitting there for 8 years, they were not stretched. I
recently noticed quite a few of the tags were lying on the floor. When
I investigated, I found that the part of the rubber bands that were in
contact with the metal valves had turned dark brown and very
hard/brittle. The rest of each rubber band looked normal. I just
replaced all of them with new rubber bands from the same box that I
used 8 years ago. I imagine I should just get some twist ties or tie
wraps and use them in the future (if I am still around in another 8
years when they fail again).

I did some googling and found that UV light and cold can harm rubber,
but this location is inside and is in total darkness except for a few
hours a week at most. The room gets very humid in the summer and the
water flowing through the valves is from a water well. So, the valves
are often cooler than ambient and damp. In the winter, the temerature
can get as low as 40 degrees F in that room and the valves would then
be warmer than ambient (although not by very much). So, does anyone
know why the rubber got brittle?

Pat

Get some high quality black (name brand) 4" cable ties and never have another problem. Bread bag ties are good but the metal wire can rust. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

https://www.amazon.com/Ty-Rap-L-4-18.../dp/B001VY34ZW

[8~{} Uncle Tie-dyed Monster

On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 14:38:05 -0400, Pat wrote:

So, does anyone know why the rubber got brittle?

Rubbers (rubber bands) lose their elasticity?

On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 18:38:05 -0000, Pat wrote:


This isn't a serious problem in need of a solution, but it has my
curiosity up. About 8 years ago, I used rubber bands (#33 whatever
that means) to attach cardboard tags to a dozen water valves to label
them. After installation, the rubber bands were not stretched. In
other words, they were stretched to get them around the valve handle,
but while sitting there for 8 years, they were not stretched. I
recently noticed quite a few of the tags were lying on the floor. When
I investigated, I found that the part of the rubber bands that were in
contact with the metal valves had turned dark brown and very
hard/brittle. The rest of each rubber band looked normal. I just
replaced all of them with new rubber bands from the same box that I
used 8 years ago. I imagine I should just get some twist ties or tie
wraps and use them in the future (if I am still around in another 8
years when they fail again).

I did some googling and found that UV light and cold can harm rubber,
but this location is inside and is in total darkness except for a few
hours a week at most. The room gets very humid in the summer and the
water flowing through the valves is from a water well. So, the valves
are often cooler than ambient and damp. In the winter, the temerature
can get as low as 40 degrees F in that room and the valves would then
be warmer than ambient (although not by very much). So, does anyone
know why the rubber got brittle?

They rot under any circumstances, and are useless for anything permanent. Use plastic zip ties.

--
In a study of 200,000 ostriches over a period of 80 years, no one reported a single case where an ostrich buried its head in the sand (or attempted to do so).

On 3/12/2017 1:38 PM, Pat wrote:

This isn't a serious problem in need of a solution, but it has my
curiosity up. About 8 years ago, I used rubber bands (#33 whatever
that means) to attach cardboard tags to a dozen water valves to label
them. After installation, the rubber bands were not stretched. In
other words, they were stretched to get them around the valve handle,
but while sitting there for 8 years, they were not stretched. I
recently noticed quite a few of the tags were lying on the floor. When
I investigated, I found that the part of the rubber bands that were in
contact with the metal valves had turned dark brown and very
hard/brittle. The rest of each rubber band looked normal. I just
replaced all of them with new rubber bands from the same box that I
used 8 years ago. I imagine I should just get some twist ties or tie
wraps and use them in the future (if I am still around in another 8
years when they fail again).

I did some googling and found that UV light and cold can harm rubber,
but this location is inside and is in total darkness except for a few
hours a week at most. The room gets very humid in the summer and the
water flowing through the valves is from a water well. So, the valves
are often cooler than ambient and damp. In the winter, the temerature
can get as low as 40 degrees F in that room and the valves would then
be warmer than ambient (although not by very much). So, does anyone
know why the rubber got brittle?

Pat


Whenever we ran completely out of work we would separate rubber bands
from paperclips. (I know, stupid job) but I asked why we had to do this
and the stupervisor said the metal dries out the rubber bands rendering
them useless.

On 3/12/2017 4:59 PM, puxatony phil wrote:
On 3/12/2017 1:38 PM, Pat wrote:

This isn't a serious problem in need of a solution, but it has my
curiosity up. About 8 years ago, I used rubber bands (#33 whatever
that means) to attach cardboard tags to a dozen water valves to label
them. After installation, the rubber bands were not stretched. In
other words, they were stretched to get them around the valve handle,
but while sitting there for 8 years, they were not stretched. I
recently noticed quite a few of the tags were lying on the floor. When
I investigated, I found that the part of the rubber bands that were in
contact with the metal valves had turned dark brown and very
hard/brittle. The rest of each rubber band looked normal. I just
replaced all of them with new rubber bands from the same box that I
used 8 years ago. I imagine I should just get some twist ties or tie
wraps and use them in the future (if I am still around in another 8
years when they fail again).

I did some googling and found that UV light and cold can harm rubber,
but this location is inside and is in total darkness except for a few
hours a week at most. The room gets very humid in the summer and the
water flowing through the valves is from a water well. So, the valves
are often cooler than ambient and damp. In the winter, the temerature
can get as low as 40 degrees F in that room and the valves would then
be warmer than ambient (although not by very much). So, does anyone
know why the rubber got brittle?

Pat


Whenever we ran completely out of work we would separate rubber bands
from paperclips. (I know, stupid job) but I asked why we had to do this
and the stupervisor said the metal dries out the rubber bands rendering
them useless.

Deliberate misspelling for a boss who believes that

On 3/12/2017 7:11 PM, Frank wrote:
On 3/12/2017 4:59 PM, puxatony phil wrote:
On 3/12/2017 1:38 PM, Pat wrote:

This isn't a serious problem in need of a solution, but it has my
curiosity up. About 8 years ago, I used rubber bands (#33 whatever
that means) to attach cardboard tags to a dozen water valves to label
them. After installation, the rubber bands were not stretched. In
other words, they were stretched to get them around the valve handle,
but while sitting there for 8 years, they were not stretched. I
recently noticed quite a few of the tags were lying on the floor. When
I investigated, I found that the part of the rubber bands that were in
contact with the metal valves had turned dark brown and very
hard/brittle. The rest of each rubber band looked normal. I just
replaced all of them with new rubber bands from the same box that I
used 8 years ago. I imagine I should just get some twist ties or tie
wraps and use them in the future (if I am still around in another 8
years when they fail again).

I did some googling and found that UV light and cold can harm rubber,
but this location is inside and is in total darkness except for a few
hours a week at most. The room gets very humid in the summer and the
water flowing through the valves is from a water well. So, the valves
are often cooler than ambient and damp. In the winter, the temerature
can get as low as 40 degrees F in that room and the valves would then
be warmer than ambient (although not by very much). So, does anyone
know why the rubber got brittle?

Pat


Whenever we ran completely out of work we would separate rubber bands
from paperclips. (I know, stupid job) but I asked why we had to do this
and the stupervisor said the metal dries out the rubber bands rendering
them useless.

Deliberate misspelling for a boss who believes that

Also noted it should be Punxsutawney, phil

On 3/12/2017 6:35 PM, Frank wrote:
puxatony phil

That actually was a misspell but I left it to irritate ppl. You're the
1st to point it out.

On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 18:43:44 -0500
puxatony phil wrote:

On 3/12/2017 6:35 PM, Frank wrote:
puxatony phil

That actually was a misspell but I left it to irritate ppl. You're
the 1st to point it out.

because he is well above all others.

On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:19:14 GMT, "Tekkie®"
wrote:


It's called ozone. Use plastic zip ties.

.... bailing wire or draw on the pipes with a marker to show direction
of flow

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/...me_brittle_is/

On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:19:14 GMT, "Tekkie®"
wrote:


It's called ozone. Use plastic zip ties.

Will do, but it must be more than ozone. The entire bands were
subjected to equal amounts of ozone. Only the parts in contact with
the metal valves hardened. In fact, the rubber bands still in the
original opened package were fine. They saw the same amount of ozone
during those eight years.

On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:06:23 -0400, Meanie wrote:

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/...me_brittle_is/


Same as with Oren's response. It can't be just ozone or the entire
bands would have had the problem. Somehow, cool & damp sped up the
process. Could mold or mildew be part of it?

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 5:43:01 AM UTC-4, Pat wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:19:14 GMT, "Tekkie®"
wrote:


It's called ozone. Use plastic zip ties.

Will do, but it must be more than ozone. The entire bands were
subjected to equal amounts of ozone. Only the parts in contact with
the metal valves hardened. In fact, the rubber bands still in the
original opened package were fine. They saw the same amount of ozone
during those eight years.

If I understand correctly, the rubber band hangs on the valve, the tag is suspended below it. The rubber in contact with the valve has failed while the rest of it remains intact.

We know that stretched rubber oxidizes much faster than unstretched, but you say this part isn't stretched.

Speculating then, the part in contact with the valve is subject to temperature effects and does move over the year as the ambient temperatures change.

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in
news
They rot under any circumstances, and are useless for anything
permanent. Use plastic zip ties.


It's very annoying. I onder why someone does not manufacture good ones.
They's get rich!


--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:57:52 -0000, KenK wrote:

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in
news
They rot under any circumstances, and are useless for anything
permanent. Use plastic zip ties.


It's very annoying. I onder why someone does not manufacture good ones.
They's get rich!

Because 99% of them are used to hold things together temporarily, while gluing, or to hold some letters together in the post. I've never known anyone try to use one permanently.

--
If you feel tired, pull off at the motorway services -- Highway Code, UK.
How's that going to help?!?

On 3/14/2017 1:57 PM, KenK wrote:
"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in
news
They rot under any circumstances, and are useless for anything
permanent. Use plastic zip ties.


It's very annoying. I onder why someone does not manufacture good ones.
They's get rich!



Doubt they would get rich. I rarely need one to last more than a day or
so, many for less than an hour. I'm not willing to pay for a rubber
band that would last for years.

You may want to check these out. The cost is $27 a pound.
http://www.ammarmagic.com/premium-rubber-bands.html

Or get the regular ones for $4.49 a pound
http://www.staples.com/Rubber-Bands/cat_CL163579

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 18:46:32 -0000, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/14/2017 1:57 PM, KenK wrote:
"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in
news
They rot under any circumstances, and are useless for anything
permanent. Use plastic zip ties.

It's very annoying. I onder why someone does not manufacture good ones.
They's get rich!

Doubt they would get rich. I rarely need one to last more than a day or
so, many for less than an hour. I'm not willing to pay for a rubber
band that would last for years.

You may want to check these out. The cost is $27 a pound.
http://www.ammarmagic.com/premium-rubber-bands.html

What are they for?

Or get the regular ones for $4.49 a pound
http://www.staples.com/Rubber-Bands/cat_CL163579

--
US PGA Commentator - "One of the reasons Arnie is playing so well is that, before each tee shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them."
And Johnny Carson famously commented "That must make his little putter stand up"

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:46:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

It's very annoying. I onder why someone does not manufacture good ones.
They's get rich!



Doubt they would get rich. I rarely need one to last more than a day or
so, many for less than an hour. I'm not willing to pay for a rubber
band that would last for years.

You may want to check these out. The cost is $27 a pound.
http://www.ammarmagic.com/premium-rubber-bands.html

Or get the regular ones for $4.49 a pound
http://www.staples.com/Rubber-Bands/cat_CL163579

You'll need plenty if you make Rubber Band Machine Guns :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njoiz7C4xDQ

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 19:14:05 -0000, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:46:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

It's very annoying. I onder why someone does not manufacture good ones.
They's get rich!



Doubt they would get rich. I rarely need one to last more than a day or
so, many for less than an hour. I'm not willing to pay for a rubber
band that would last for years.

You may want to check these out. The cost is $27 a pound.
http://www.ammarmagic.com/premium-rubber-bands.html

Or get the regular ones for $4.49 a pound
http://www.staples.com/Rubber-Bands/cat_CL163579

You'll need plenty if you make Rubber Band Machine Guns :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njoiz7C4xDQ

Difficult to conceal in class.

--
Kakistocracy - Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/kakistocracy

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 05:19:45 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 5:43:01 AM UTC-4, Pat wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:19:14 GMT, "Tekkie®"
wrote:


It's called ozone. Use plastic zip ties.

Will do, but it must be more than ozone. The entire bands were
subjected to equal amounts of ozone. Only the parts in contact with
the metal valves hardened. In fact, the rubber bands still in the
original opened package were fine. They saw the same amount of ozone
during those eight years.

If I understand correctly, the rubber band hangs on the valve, the tag is suspended below it. The rubber in contact with the valve has failed while the rest of it remains intact.
Correct.


We know that stretched rubber oxidizes much faster than unstretched, but you say this part isn't stretched.
Correct.


Speculating then, the part in contact with the valve is subject to temperature effects and does move over the year as the ambient temperatures change.
Correct. In addition, the part in contact with the valve is also
subject to moisture becasue the valves sweat in the summer.

Thanks to all who responded.
Pat