I just installed six Milgard brand vinyl windows. One of the windows stays ajar a bit up at the top.

There is a part at the bottom of the window frame, which I will call "rail". It is shown on one of my photos. I am not sure if this is the proper name of this. The bottom of the frame for the pane straddles this, and it slides over this.

I'm noticing that the "rail" rises a bit towards the left end. I think this is causing the bottom front of the sliding window pane to tilt slightly up when it is pushed closed, which in turn is causing the window to stay ajar up at the top.

I'm wondering if I can remove this "rail" without destroying it. If Ican remove it, I am planning to raise the middle of it so that back end of the pane can be even with the front when it's closed.

The following link has two photos of the window:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AuaWwn9UmRLngWhRpe84CHwxVUVw

Thanks!

Deguza

Deguza,

Pull the window and frame out and start over. Your installation is not
plumb. Use a level and maybe some shims. While the window is out confirm
that the window closes well in the frame still. If when you bought the
window it did not have a good fit you would have noticed the window being
ajar and not installed it, I hope.

Dave M.

On 11/20/2016 12:45 AM, Deguza wrote:
I just installed six Milgard brand vinyl windows. One of the windows
stays ajar a bit up at the top.

There is a part at the bottom of the window frame, which I will call
"rail". It is shown on one of my photos. I am not sure if this is the
proper name of this. The bottom of the frame for the pane straddles
this, and it slides over this.

I'm noticing that the "rail" rises a bit towards the left end. I
think this is causing the bottom front of the sliding window pane to
tilt slightly up when it is pushed closed, which in turn is causing
the window to stay ajar up at the top.

I'm wondering if I can remove this "rail" without destroying it. If
Ican remove it, I am planning to raise the middle of it so that back
end of the pane can be even with the front when it's closed.

The following link has two photos of the window:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AuaWwn9UmRLngWhRpe84CHwxVUVw

Thanks!

Deguza


Do you have a square? Check it out. My money is on your window being
square but the installation is not. If I'm reading your explanation of
the "symptoms" correctly, the frame is racked. If that window frame's
corners are all at a perfect 90 degrees, then the problem is the window
itself. Can you remove the window itself from the frame and check to
see if there might be piece missing (I'm thinking some sort of contact
point, like a teflon or Delrin piece, which assists the window to slide)?

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:45:33 -0800 (PST), Deguza
wrote:

I just installed six Milgard brand vinyl windows. One of the windows stays ajar a bit up at the top.

There is a part at the bottom of the window frame, which I will call "rail". It is shown on one of my photos. I am not sure if this is the proper name of this. The bottom of the frame for the pane straddles this, and it slides over this.

I'm noticing that the "rail" rises a bit towards the left end. I think this is causing the bottom front of the sliding window pane to tilt slightly up when it is pushed closed, which in turn is causing the window to stay ajar up at the top.

I'm wondering if I can remove this "rail" without destroying it. If Ican remove it, I am planning to raise the middle of it so that back end of the pane can be even with the front when it's closed.

The following link has two photos of the window:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AuaWwn9UmRLngWhRpe84CHwxVUVw

Thanks!

Deguza

Removing it will void the warranty. Sounds like it is not square and
needs to be taken out and properly installed. Anything else is half
assed and may become a bigger problem down the road. You can damage
the ability to seal.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:45:33 -0800 (PST), Deguza wrote:

I just installed six Milgard brand vinyl windows. One of the windows stays ajar a bit up at the top.

There is a part at the bottom of the window frame, which I will call "rail". It is shown on one of my photos. I am not sure if this is the proper name of this. The bottom of the frame for the pane straddles this, and it slides over this.

I'm noticing that the "rail" rises a bit towards the left end. I think this is causing the bottom front of the sliding window pane to tilt slightly up when it is pushed closed, which in turn is causing the window to stay ajar up at the top.

I'm wondering if I can remove this "rail" without destroying it. If Ican remove it, I am planning to raise the middle of it so that back end of the pane can be even with the front when it's closed.

The following link has two photos of the window:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AuaWwn9UmRLngWhRpe84CHwxVUVw

Thanks!

Deguza

You clearly installed the window, and maybe some or all of the others badly. It (they) need to be removed and
reinstalled by some one that can do the job properly. How you installed the windows may have damaged some or all of
them beyond repair.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 07:43:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Sounds like it is not square and
needs to be taken out and properly installed.

OP doesn't say what he did before he installed the window. Was the RO
checked for square, was the window inspected for damage before it was
installed... what tools he used, was it shimmed correctly, how was it
insulated and are the window jambs now bowed? And how was it fastened
to the RO. Take is out and start over.

Expansion and contraction will or likely make the window operation
even worse. Testing the window before final trim is a good practice.
Tweak the adjustments early.

So many unanswered questions with so little information :-\

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:45:33 -0800 (PST), Deguza
wrote:

I just installed six Milgard brand vinyl windows. One of the windows stays ajar a bit up at the top.

There is a part at the bottom of the window frame, which I will call "rail". It is shown on one of my photos. I am not sure if this is the proper name of this. The bottom of the frame for the pane straddles this, and it slides over this.

I'm noticing that the "rail" rises a bit towards the left end. I think this is causing the bottom front of the sliding window pane to tilt slightly up when it is pushed closed, which in turn is causing the window to stay ajar up at the top.

I'm wondering if I can remove this "rail" without destroying it. If Ican remove it, I am planning to raise the middle of it so that back end of the pane can be even with the front when it's closed.

The following link has two photos of the window:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AuaWwn9UmRLngWhRpe84CHwxVUVw

Thanks!

Deguza
You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 07:43:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:45:33 -0800 (PST), Deguza
wrote:

I just installed six Milgard brand vinyl windows. One of the windows stays ajar a bit up at the top.

There is a part at the bottom of the window frame, which I will call "rail". It is shown on one of my photos. I am not sure if this is the proper name of this. The bottom of the frame for the pane straddles this, and it slides over this.

I'm noticing that the "rail" rises a bit towards the left end. I think this is causing the bottom front of the sliding window pane to tilt slightly up when it is pushed closed, which in turn is causing the window to stay ajar up at the top.

I'm wondering if I can remove this "rail" without destroying it. If Ican remove it, I am planning to raise the middle of it so that back end of the pane can be even with the front when it's closed.

The following link has two photos of the window:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AuaWwn9UmRLngWhRpe84CHwxVUVw

Thanks!

Deguza

Removing it will void the warranty. Sounds like it is not square and
needs to be taken out and properly installed. Anything else is half
assed and may become a bigger problem down the road. You can damage
the ability to seal.
Not only MAY but WILL. MUCH bigger. Take the window out and install
it properly or pay someone who can.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:42:10 -0500, wrote:

You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

....and level

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:44:19 -0500, wrote:

Removing it will void the warranty. Sounds like it is not square and
needs to be taken out and properly installed. Anything else is half
assed and may become a bigger problem down the road. You can damage
the ability to seal.

Not only MAY but WILL. MUCH bigger. Take the window out and install
it properly or pay someone who can.

I'm aware of installers charging $3 for each window. That's what you
get for a three dollar install when they work piece work...

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 14:31:45 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:42:10 -0500, wrote:

You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

...and level
If it is square and plumb it WILL be, by default, level

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 14:35:38 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:44:19 -0500, wrote:

Removing it will void the warranty. Sounds like it is not square and
needs to be taken out and properly installed. Anything else is half
assed and may become a bigger problem down the road. You can damage
the ability to seal.

Not only MAY but WILL. MUCH bigger. Take the window out and install
it properly or pay someone who can.

I'm aware of installers charging $3 for each window. That's what you
get for a three dollar install when they work piece work...
The two window companies I worked for charged one 7734 of a lot more
than $3 per window - but they COULD install them properly.

On 11/20/2016 8:16 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 14:35:38 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:44:19 -0500, wrote:

Removing it will void the warranty. Sounds like it is not square and
needs to be taken out and properly installed. Anything else is half
assed and may become a bigger problem down the road. You can damage
the ability to seal.

Not only MAY but WILL. MUCH bigger. Take the window out and install
it properly or pay someone who can.

I'm aware of installers charging $3 for each window. That's what you
get for a three dollar install when they work piece work...
The two window companies I worked for charged one 7734 of a lot more
than $3 per window - but they COULD install them properly.


I'm having 6 windows replaced soon. They are charging $400 each for
labor and materials. I had a few others done earlier this year and they
do a fantastic job. Azek trim on the exterior so no more painting.

When they are done, the windows will be in place, every speck of waste
cleaned up, old windows carried away. You'd never know it was just
done. Twenty years ago I'd have done it myself. These days I find it
easier to write a check

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 21:18:15 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 11/20/2016 8:16 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 14:35:38 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:44:19 -0500, wrote:

Removing it will void the warranty. Sounds like it is not square and
needs to be taken out and properly installed. Anything else is half
assed and may become a bigger problem down the road. You can damage
the ability to seal.

Not only MAY but WILL. MUCH bigger. Take the window out and install
it properly or pay someone who can.

I'm aware of installers charging $3 for each window. That's what you
get for a three dollar install when they work piece work...
The two window companies I worked for charged one 7734 of a lot more
than $3 per window - but they COULD install them properly.


I'm having 6 windows replaced soon. They are charging $400 each for
labor and materials. I had a few others done earlier this year and they
do a fantastic job. Azek trim on the exterior so no more painting.

When they are done, the windows will be in place, every speck of waste
cleaned up, old windows carried away. You'd never know it was just
done. Twenty years ago I'd have done it myself. These days I find it
easier to write a check
@0 years ago I did all the top floor windows (in aluminum siding.) 2
years ago I wrote the cheque to Beingessners to do the front entry and
2 back windows on the main floor (in bricK)

On 11/20/2016 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:42:10 -0500, wrote:

You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

...and level


Think about it, Oren. If it is square and plumb it will be level.g

Too bad the OP didn't learn this.

On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 10:44:03 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 11/20/2016 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:42:10 -0500, wrote:

You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

...and level


Think about it, Oren. If it is square and plumb it will be level.g

Too bad the OP didn't learn this.

Plumb involves 2 directions:

1 - Perpendicular to a level surface such as the sill or floor. Hold the
level on the "inside" of the jamb, the part that faces the opposite side
of the jamb.

2 - Leaning inward or outward in relation to the surrounding surface. Hold
the level on the face of the jamb that faces into (or out of) the room.

Have you ever noticed that many window and door manufacturers as well as
many contractor/DIY sites use all three terms: plumb, level and square.

A window could be square and level, but not plumb. It might be plumb
as far as "square and level" but it might be leaning into or out of the
room.

Granted, being out of plumb in the in/out direction might not cause the
problem that the OP is having, but it is still a factor in a window
installation. It also means that that a window could square and level
but not plumb.

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 05:22:40 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 10:44:03 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 11/20/2016 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:42:10 -0500, wrote:

You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

...and level


Think about it, Oren. If it is square and plumb it will be level.g

Too bad the OP didn't learn this.

Plumb involves 2 directions:

1 - Perpendicular to a level surface such as the sill or floor. Hold the
level on the "inside" of the jamb, the part that faces the opposite side
of the jamb.

2 - Leaning inward or outward in relation to the surrounding surface. Hold
the level on the face of the jamb that faces into (or out of) the room.

Have you ever noticed that many window and door manufacturers as well as
many contractor/DIY sites use all three terms: plumb, level and square.

A window could be square and level, but not plumb. It might be plumb
as far as "square and level" but it might be leaning into or out of the
room.

Granted, being out of plumb in the in/out direction might not cause the
problem that the OP is having, but it is still a factor in a window
installation. It also means that that a window could square and level
but not plumb.
But it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be plumb and square, and NOT be level.
Think about it.

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 13:00:58 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 05:22:40 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 10:44:03 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 11/20/2016 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:42:10 -0500, wrote:

You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

...and level


Think about it, Oren. If it is square and plumb it will be level.g

Too bad the OP didn't learn this.

Plumb involves 2 directions:

1 - Perpendicular to a level surface such as the sill or floor. Hold the
level on the "inside" of the jamb, the part that faces the opposite side
of the jamb.

2 - Leaning inward or outward in relation to the surrounding surface. Hold
the level on the face of the jamb that faces into (or out of) the room.

Have you ever noticed that many window and door manufacturers as well as
many contractor/DIY sites use all three terms: plumb, level and square.

A window could be square and level, but not plumb. It might be plumb
as far as "square and level" but it might be leaning into or out of the
room.

Granted, being out of plumb in the in/out direction might not cause the
problem that the OP is having, but it is still a factor in a window
installation. It also means that that a window could square and level
but not plumb.

But it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be plumb and square, and NOT be level.
Think about it.

As Derby mentions, plumb, level and square checks are suggested by the
window manufactures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq0PjlFhpyQ

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 21:44:00 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 11/20/2016 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:42:10 -0500, wrote:

You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

...and level


Think about it, Oren. If it is square and plumb it will be level.g

Too bad the OP didn't learn this.

If the window is square and level, but the wall is not plumb, then
what? I had this once installing a pre-hung door in a new
construction home I worked at. It gave me fits and frustration.

Adapt and overcome

On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 1:00:57 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 05:22:40 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 10:44:03 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 11/20/2016 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:42:10 -0500, wrote:

You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

...and level


Think about it, Oren. If it is square and plumb it will be level.g

Too bad the OP didn't learn this.

Plumb involves 2 directions:

1 - Perpendicular to a level surface such as the sill or floor. Hold the
level on the "inside" of the jamb, the part that faces the opposite side
of the jamb.

2 - Leaning inward or outward in relation to the surrounding surface. Hold
the level on the face of the jamb that faces into (or out of) the room.

Have you ever noticed that many window and door manufacturers as well as
many contractor/DIY sites use all three terms: plumb, level and square.

A window could be square and level, but not plumb. It might be plumb
as far as "square and level" but it might be leaning into or out of the
room.

Granted, being out of plumb in the in/out direction might not cause the
problem that the OP is having, but it is still a factor in a window
installation. It also means that that a window could square and level
but not plumb.
But it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be plumb and square, and NOT be level.
Think about it.

I am thinking about it.

I place my level horizontally on the sill and the bubble is dead center:

Level - Check!

I measure the diagonals from corner to corner and they are the same:

Square- Check!

I place my level vertically on the *inside* of the frame and the bubble
is dead center:

Plumb in the side-to-side plane: Check! (This is the part that you are
calling redundant and I have no argument.)

I place my level vertically on the *face* of the frame and the bubble
is *not* dead center:

Plumb in the front-to-back plane: Not!

When you plumb a post, don't you check 2 adjacent sides? The same should
be done when plumbing a window - side-to-side and front-to-back. Unless
*both* of them are plumb, the window isn't plumb.

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:02:29 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 21:44:00 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 11/20/2016 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:42:10 -0500, wrote:

You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

...and level


Think about it, Oren. If it is square and plumb it will be level.g

Too bad the OP didn't learn this.

If the window is square and level, but the wall is not plumb, then
what? I had this once installing a pre-hung door in a new
construction home I worked at. It gave me fits and frustration.

Adapt and overcome
the window may not end up "square to the wall" or "square to the
hole" - but if it is plumb both in - to - out and left to right, and
the corners are square the bottom and top will both be level (cannot
be anything else since plumb is 90 degrees from level, and 90 degrees
is "square") and the window or door will work as designed. I ended up
on a service call a number of years back where the installer had
installed the door "flush to the wall" instead of plumb and it didn't
work properly. I told the home owner they had 2 choices - it would
look like crap and work well, or look good and work like crap. If they
wanted something else they had to call the contractor that built the
house and have them rebuild the wall . I documented the slant of the
wall in case it ended up in small clames court. They finally settled
on looking a little bit crappy and working so-so (split the
difference)

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 12:32:45 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 1:00:57 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 05:22:40 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 10:44:03 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 11/20/2016 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:42:10 -0500, wrote:

You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

...and level


Think about it, Oren. If it is square and plumb it will be level.g

Too bad the OP didn't learn this.

Plumb involves 2 directions:

1 - Perpendicular to a level surface such as the sill or floor. Hold the
level on the "inside" of the jamb, the part that faces the opposite side
of the jamb.

2 - Leaning inward or outward in relation to the surrounding surface. Hold
the level on the face of the jamb that faces into (or out of) the room.

Have you ever noticed that many window and door manufacturers as well as
many contractor/DIY sites use all three terms: plumb, level and square.

A window could be square and level, but not plumb. It might be plumb
as far as "square and level" but it might be leaning into or out of the
room.

Granted, being out of plumb in the in/out direction might not cause the
problem that the OP is having, but it is still a factor in a window
installation. It also means that that a window could square and level
but not plumb.
But it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be plumb and square, and NOT be level.
Think about it.

I am thinking about it.

I place my level horizontally on the sill and the bubble is dead center:

Level - Check!

I measure the diagonals from corner to corner and they are the same:

Square- Check!

I place my level vertically on the *inside* of the frame and the bubble
is dead center:

Plumb in the side-to-side plane: Check! (This is the part that you are
calling redundant and I have no argument.)

I place my level vertically on the *face* of the frame and the bubble
is *not* dead center:

Plumb in the front-to-back plane: Not!

When you plumb a post, don't you check 2 adjacent sides? The same should
be done when plumbing a window - side-to-side and front-to-back. Unless
*both* of them are plumb, the window isn't plumb.

I mentioned earlier about a wall not being plumb, causing a fit for
hanging a door. In that case a window could also be catty wampus

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 12:32:45 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 1:00:57 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 05:22:40 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 10:44:03 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 11/20/2016 4:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:42:10 -0500, wrote:

You didn't install the window square in the hole. It needs to be
removed and PROPERLY re-installed.. Nothing else will solve your
problem. Square and plumb are REQUIRED properties for a window
installation.

...and level


Think about it, Oren. If it is square and plumb it will be level.g

Too bad the OP didn't learn this.

Plumb involves 2 directions:

1 - Perpendicular to a level surface such as the sill or floor. Hold the
level on the "inside" of the jamb, the part that faces the opposite side
of the jamb.

2 - Leaning inward or outward in relation to the surrounding surface. Hold
the level on the face of the jamb that faces into (or out of) the room.

Have you ever noticed that many window and door manufacturers as well as
many contractor/DIY sites use all three terms: plumb, level and square.

A window could be square and level, but not plumb. It might be plumb
as far as "square and level" but it might be leaning into or out of the
room.

Granted, being out of plumb in the in/out direction might not cause the
problem that the OP is having, but it is still a factor in a window
installation. It also means that that a window could square and level
but not plumb.
But it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be plumb and square, and NOT be level.
Think about it.

I am thinking about it.

I place my level horizontally on the sill and the bubble is dead center:

Level - Check!

I measure the diagonals from corner to corner and they are the same:

Square- Check!

I place my level vertically on the *inside* of the frame and the bubble
is dead center:

Plumb in the side-to-side plane: Check! (This is the part that you are
calling redundant and I have no argument.)

I place my level vertically on the *face* of the frame and the bubble
is *not* dead center:

Plumb in the front-to-back plane: Not!

When you plumb a post, don't you check 2 adjacent sides? The same should
be done when plumbing a window - side-to-side and front-to-back. Unless
*both* of them are plumb, the window isn't plumb.
So you are agreeing with me, yet saying you dissagree. If it is
"plumb" it is "plumb" in all directions by definition. A plumb bob
cannot be "plumb" in one direction and not in any other.

A sigle check with a bubble level with the vial at right angles to the
length of the level is NOT "plumbing" a window.

IF the windoe is TRULY plumb, and the window is truly square, it IS
level - no two ways about it - and it WILL work.