Recently I moved into a century old rowhouse. I discovered that
turning off the ceiling light in the small living room turned off
almost every wall outlet in the room as well. Someone with an EE
degree tried to fix it, but could not. He concluded it would
require taking out some wall to find the problem area. I don't
really want to do that.

I would like to leave the switch on at all times and replace the
light fixture (which is cheap and unattractive anyway) with
something I can turn off and on another way. I would prefer not
to have a pull chain hanging in the middle of the room. What are
my choices here? How can I turn such a light off and on remotely
and leave the outlets hot? And where do I look for such products?

Thanks in advance,
Phil

On 04 Jan 2004, Phil Anderson wrote:

Recently I moved into a century old rowhouse. I discovered
that turning off the ceiling light in the small living room
turned off almost every wall outlet in the room as well.
Someone with an EE degree tried to fix it, but could not.

As God is my witness, this is not being typed with a sarcastic
or malicious tone, but: THAT WAS YOU MISTAKE.

Call an ELECTRICIAN (or "Home Handyman").

He concluded it would require taking out some wall to find
the problem area. I don't really want to do that.

It's very much likely that he was wrong. Absolute worst case
you MIGHT need a new wire fished through the walls. An
electrician knows how to do that without "taking out a wall".

I would like to leave the switch on at all times

You shouldn't have to do that to use your electrical outlets.

and replace
the light fixture (which is cheap and unattractive anyway)
with something I can turn off and on another way. I would
prefer not to have a pull chain hanging in the middle of the
room. What are my choices here?

Unless you're tall enough to reach the new fixture, not many.

How can I turn such a
light off and on remotely and leave the outlets hot? And
where do I look for such products?

Your electrician (or "Home Handyman" who knows electrical)
will find and fix the hack job probably done by some previous
owner, and you won't need to. Before you call them, go to
The Home Depot or Lowe's and buy your new light fixture, pay
no attention to the "need" for an alternative way of turning
it on and off, you won't have to. Have your electrician/home
handyman replace the old one for you while they're fixing the
hacked-up switch/outlets.

--
Baisez-les s'ils ne peuvent pas prendre une plaisanterie
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Pendergast e-mail is for sissies, say it on line

"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote in message
...
On 04 Jan 2004, Phil Anderson wrote:

I would like to leave the switch on at all times

You shouldn't have to do that to use your electrical outlets.

this might be common in old houses
it is the same way in my living room. there's no light on the ceiling and
the outlets are there only to power lamps; turn on the switch and you turn
on the lamps which are the only source of light.

On 04 Jan 2004, j j wrote:


"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote in message
...
On 04 Jan 2004, Phil Anderson wrote:

I would like to leave the switch on at all times

You shouldn't have to do that to use your electrical
outlets.

this might be common in old houses
it is the same way in my living room. there's no light on
the ceiling and the outlets are there only to power lamps;
turn on the switch and you turn on the lamps which are the
only source of light.

Oh yeah, I've seen that situation often. When there's no
ceiling fixture, you can almost guarantee a wall switch will
control at least one receptacle designed to have a lamp
plugged into it. Only a slight disagreement, I don't think
that was done in -real- old houses like this one, it didn't
become popular until around the 50's, at least in homes built
in this area.

But the possibilities boggle the mind! Maybe the top of
EVERY receptacle in the room is wired to that switch, and the
bottom plugs are always hot? Maybe the previous owner hacked
in a ceiling fixture and didn't know enough to wire it to an
unswitched black wire, or ???

I guess that's my point: Somebody who knows what they're
doing (not necessarily an EE, in this case g) could take off
a few cover plates and sniff around, assess the situation and
get it straightened out. No busting out walls required!

--
Baisez-les s'ils ne peuvent pas prendre une plaisanterie
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Pendergast e-mail is for sissies, say it on line

"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote in message
...
On 04 Jan 2004, j j wrote:


"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote in message
...
On 04 Jan 2004, Phil Anderson wrote:

I would like to leave the switch on at all times

You shouldn't have to do that to use your electrical
outlets.

this might be common in old houses
it is the same way in my living room. there's no light on
the ceiling and the outlets are there only to power lamps;
turn on the switch and you turn on the lamps which are the
only source of light.

Oh yeah, I've seen that situation often. When there's no
ceiling fixture, you can almost guarantee a wall switch will
control at least one receptacle designed to have a lamp
plugged into it. Only a slight disagreement, I don't think
that was done in -real- old houses like this one, it didn't
become popular until around the 50's, at least in homes built
in this area.

But the possibilities boggle the mind! Maybe the top of
EVERY receptacle in the room is wired to that switch, and the
bottom plugs are always hot? Maybe the previous owner hacked
in a ceiling fixture and didn't know enough to wire it to an
unswitched black wire, or ???

I guess that's my point: Somebody who knows what they're
doing (not necessarily an EE, in this case g) could take
off
a few cover plates and sniff around, assess the situation and
get it straightened out. No busting out walls required!

--
Baisez-les s'ils ne peuvent pas prendre une plaisanterie
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Pendergast e-mail is for sissies, say it on line

There are four outlets in the room, and the top and bottom of each
is hot when the switch is on, and cold when the switch is off. I
have removed and replaced the switch and every outlet, without
changing the result. The EE does not claim to be expert on this,
but he did fiddle with the wiring in the switch. Several attempts
made things worse, none made things better. The wiring of the
outlets was not unusual in any way that I could see.

Try this link http://www.kandbelectronics.com/kb-e...ics/rlm20.html
It is a remotely controlled light socket where you can leave the switch
on to keep your plugs energized and still be able to control the light
switch....Hope that was of some help....Jim



"Phil Anderson" wrote in message
...
Recently I moved into a century old rowhouse. I discovered that
turning off the ceiling light in the small living room turned off
almost every wall outlet in the room as well. Someone with an EE
degree tried to fix it, but could not. He concluded it would
require taking out some wall to find the problem area. I don't
really want to do that.

I would like to leave the switch on at all times and replace the
light fixture (which is cheap and unattractive anyway) with
something I can turn off and on another way. I would prefer not
to have a pull chain hanging in the middle of the room. What are
my choices here? How can I turn such a light off and on remotely
and leave the outlets hot? And where do I look for such products?

Thanks in advance,
Phil

"Jim & Lil" jim.morris-at-sk.sympatico.ca wrote in message
...
Try this link http://www.kandbelectronics.com/kb-e...ics/rlm20.html
It is a remotely controlled light socket where you can leave the
switch
on to keep your plugs energized and still be able to control the light
switch....Hope that was of some help....Jim



"Phil Anderson" wrote in message
...
Recently I moved into a century old rowhouse. I discovered that
turning off the ceiling light in the small living room turned off
almost every wall outlet in the room as well. Someone with an EE
degree tried to fix it, but could not. He concluded it would
require taking out some wall to find the problem area. I don't
really want to do that.

I would like to leave the switch on at all times and replace the
light fixture (which is cheap and unattractive anyway) with
something I can turn off and on another way. I would prefer not
to have a pull chain hanging in the middle of the room. What are
my choices here? How can I turn such a light off and on remotely
and leave the outlets hot? And where do I look for such products?

Thanks in advance,
Phil

One should be able to split the hot so that power goes 1st to the outlets,
then switched power to the light. It depends where the power comes into 1st,
the switch, or the outlet.
See if this is any help.
http://www.homewiringandmore.com/swi...let/index.html

"Jim & Lil" jim.morris-at-sk.sympatico.ca wrote in message
...
Try this link http://www.kandbelectronics.com/kb-e...ics/rlm20.html
It is a remotely controlled light socket where you can leave the
switch
on to keep your plugs energized and still be able to control the light
switch....Hope that was of some help....Jim



"Phil Anderson" wrote in message
...
Recently I moved into a century old rowhouse. I discovered that
turning off the ceiling light in the small living room turned off
almost every wall outlet in the room as well. Someone with an EE
degree tried to fix it, but could not. He concluded it would
require taking out some wall to find the problem area. I don't
really want to do that.

I would like to leave the switch on at all times and replace the
light fixture (which is cheap and unattractive anyway) with
something I can turn off and on another way. I would prefer not
to have a pull chain hanging in the middle of the room. What are
my choices here? How can I turn such a light off and on remotely
and leave the outlets hot? And where do I look for such products?

Thanks in advance,
Phil

"Jim & Lil" jim.morris-at-sk.sympatico.ca wrote in message
...
Try this link
http://www.kandbelectronics.com/kb-e...ics/rlm20.html
It is a remotely controlled light socket where you can
leave the switch
on to keep your plugs energized and still be able to control the
light
switch....Hope that was of some help....Jim

This looks promising. If I put one or more of these into a
ceiling fixture, the bulbs will stick out further than before, so
I will have to take care that the "shade" still covers the bulbs.
If I use a multi-bulb fixture, I assume I will need multiples of
this device.

Am I correct that this
http://www.kandbelectronics.com/kb-e...ics/mc460.html is what
I need to control one or more bulbs in a single fixture? One
channel per device, right? Do I need anything else?

Thanks,
Phil

I was in a Lowes store yeasterday and they have all kinds of rf remote
control devices for lights. Might be cheaper than having to get an X10
rig for controlling just one fixture, and one adaptor per bulb, but
maybe not.

So if as you say, you don't want a pull chain hanging in the middle of
the ceiling, how about a pull cord from that chain running across the
ceiling through a few screweyes and hanging down against a wall
alongside that ineffective switch? (Ducking....)

Phil Anderson wrote:

"Jim & Lil" jim.morris-at-sk.sympatico.ca wrote in message
...
Try this link
http://www.kandbelectronics.com/kb-e...ics/rlm20.html
It is a remotely controlled light socket where you can
leave the switch
on to keep your plugs energized and still be able to control the
light
switch....Hope that was of some help....Jim

This looks promising. If I put one or more of these into a
ceiling fixture, the bulbs will stick out further than before, so
I will have to take care that the "shade" still covers the bulbs.
If I use a multi-bulb fixture, I assume I will need multiples of
this device.

Am I correct that this
http://www.kandbelectronics.com/kb-e...ics/mc460.html is what
I need to control one or more bulbs in a single fixture? One
channel per device, right? Do I need anything else?

Thanks,
Phil

--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
I was in a Lowes store yeasterday and they have all kinds of rf
remote
control devices for lights. Might be cheaper than having to get
an X10
rig for controlling just one fixture, and one adaptor per bulb,
but
maybe not.

So if as you say, you don't want a pull chain hanging in the
middle of
the ceiling, how about a pull cord from that chain running
across the
ceiling through a few screweyes and hanging down against a wall
alongside that ineffective switch? (Ducking....)

I might, just might, even be willing to consider some sort of a
pull chain arrangement, but the other part of the problem is all
the fixtures of that sort I have seen either go on a ceiling fan,
or else are garage ugly.

Will check and see what I can find at Lowe;s. Is X-10 a mail only
kind of thing?

Phil

Phil Anderson wrote:

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
I was in a Lowes store yeasterday and they have all kinds of rf
remote
control devices for lights. Might be cheaper than having to get
an X10
rig for controlling just one fixture, and one adaptor per bulb,
but
maybe not.

So if as you say, you don't want a pull chain hanging in the
middle of
the ceiling, how about a pull cord from that chain running
across the
ceiling through a few screweyes and hanging down against a wall
alongside that ineffective switch? (Ducking....)

I might, just might, even be willing to consider some sort of a
pull chain arrangement, but the other part of the problem is all
the fixtures of that sort I have seen either go on a ceiling fan,
or else are garage ugly.

It shouldn't take a brain surgeon to figure out how to drill a hole in
the bezel or whatchacallit part of the lamp which mounts over the
electrical box in the ceiling and put a pull switch in it.

Those switches are also available at Lowes or any decent hardware store.

Happy New Year,

Jeff





Will check and see what I can find at Lowe;s. Is X-10 a mail only
kind of thing?

Phil

--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."