Replacing bathroom fixture for daughter in 1940 vintage house. Original
wiring to the outlet has the neutral stripped and purposefully connected
to the metal outlet box before extending on to connect to the fixture..
All wiring is 2 wire. I failed to notice if the wiring was run in metal
conduit, but it may be. I left it as is for the moment until I can get
back there with a meter and run some sanity checks. It seems to me that
when the light is on, touching the fixture and the water faucet a few
feet below would zap you. It has been this way for 60 years and there is
no reason to touch both, but it could happen.

I do not have an electrical reference that covers wiring practices of
that era, so I do not know if there was a reason for this or if it was
normal practice. I feel confident in working with home electrical
challenges on normal circuits, but this one unnerves me. Do any of you
electricians or old timers" know if this was normal for the era and
should it continue being connected that way with the new fixture?

SkyBlue

SkyBlue wrote:

Thanks for the Speedy reply Jim!

This is a bathroom wall outlet box over the lavatory with a light fixture
mounted directly to the box. No receptacle involved. The box is obviously
original, as is the wiring. Rewiring the house is long overdue but for now we
would like to be sure what is there is safe. We could say - if it ain't broke,
don't fix it - but it violates any rule I know of to put in the new light
fixture and leave the neutral connected to the box as it is now.

Here is an off the wall thought. I could run a ground wire between this box
and the water pipes below the lavatory. I can't think of any reason that would
not be satisfactory as an effective ground, but it may not be satisfactory
under the code. I'll know soon if the wire is in cable conduit that can serve
as the ground.

Thanks for your interest.

SkyBlue

Ah! I should have caught the "fixture" part.
Yes, a grounding conductor run in the wall to the Cold water supply
would help. You could verify that it is an effective ground by
connecting a test lamp (~60 watt) from the Hot wire to the ground.

Technically, using a water pipe so far from the service entrance
is a violation today, but I would certainly prefer it to nothing...
Jim

Speedy Jim wrote:

SkyBlue wrote:

Replacing bathroom fixture for daughter in 1940 vintage house. Original
wiring to the outlet has the neutral stripped and purposefully connected
to the metal outlet box before extending on to connect to the fixture..
All wiring is 2 wire. I failed to notice if the wiring was run in metal
conduit, but it may be. I left it as is for the moment until I can get
back there with a meter and run some sanity checks. It seems to me that
when the light is on, touching the fixture and the water faucet a few
feet below would zap you. It has been this way for 60 years and there is
no reason to touch both, but it could happen.

I do not have an electrical reference that covers wiring practices of
that era, so I do not know if there was a reason for this or if it was
normal practice. I feel confident in working with home electrical
challenges on normal circuits, but this one unnerves me. Do any of you
electricians or old timers" know if this was normal for the era and
should it continue being connected that way with the new fixture?

SkyBlue

Use of the Neutral for grounding purposes was never permitted
for outlet boxes. The only exception in the past was to ground
the frame of dryers and ranges.

U-ground receptacles did not exist in the 40's (came out in the 60's).
So, someone at a later date replaced the 2-prong recept and
decided to use the Neutral for grounding.

If the box is big enough, put in a GFI receptacle. It's permitted
even though there is no grounding conductor present.

It would be even better with a ground, because that would eliminate
any possibility of the cover plate screwheads becoming live (for
example).

Jim

Grounding an outlet to a cold water pipe is how one in a
bathtub can be killed. Grounds to water pipe must only be to
remove current. Safer to disconnect that neutral to ground in
the box AND only use two wire outlets - and install a GFCI in
the breaker box for that circuit. Why a GFCI in the breaker
box? Because you don't know how many more times an earlier
owner hated humanity - doing only what was convenient rather
than what is required and necessary to protect human life.

Do not connect neutral to ground in outlet box. Do not
ground to water pipes. Some locations so worry about this as
to require steel bathtubs to be grounded by a dedicated ground
wire from bathtub to breaker box - so that any current leaking
into the bathtub will be immediately removed by a dedicated
ground wire.

Speedy Jim wrote:
SkyBlue wrote:
Ah! I should have caught the "fixture" part.
Yes, a grounding conductor run in the wall to the Cold water supply
would help. You could verify that it is an effective ground by
connecting a test lamp (~60 watt) from the Hot wire to the ground.

Technically, using a water pipe so far from the service entrance
is a violation today, but I would certainly prefer it to nothing...