Bod wrote: "This keeps happening time after time. There must be something wrong with
police candidates selection. It's coming across to the rest of the world
that a core of psychpathic trigger happy cops need weeding out, now!
I'm sure that most US cops are not like that, but something needs to be
done because it has become an all too regular occurrence. "


It's not the police officers themselves. At least, not 99% of them.
Out of 1,000 randomly picked officers, you'd likely find no more
than 10 who are trigger-happy, racist, or both.

Our police are being trained that certain (racial/ethnic)groups
must be dealt with with a higher level of force - including lethal,
if necessary. At the other end of the 'process' is a jury-based
court system that consistently rules in favor of the officer involved,
perpetuating this myth that one broke the law simply 'by being
non-white'.

The problem is SYSTEMIC - so we can't simply heap blame on
one group(police officers, etc). We must examine what really needs
fixing in this country - an ATTITUDE, a deeply entrenched belief
concerning people who 'don't look like us'. THAT is what needs
a good looking at.

On 9/23/16 7:25 PM, wrote:

The problem is SYSTEMIC - so we can't simply heap blame on
one group(police officers, etc). We must examine what really needs
fixing in this country - an ATTITUDE, a deeply entrenched belief
concerning people who 'don't look like us'. THAT is what needs
a good looking at.

Since FBI stats show that blacks commit 33% of violent crimes (rapes,
murders, etc.) while having 18% of the population would indicate that
perhaps there is a reason to be concerned about higher levels of
violence. So is the fact that the murder rate (51.5/100,000 population)
is 10 times that of the general population, 17 times that whites, 4
times that of hispanics.
But, we also have to fix the problems within the community.
Children in single parent households are 66% of black families compared
to 35% overall.
In 2012, Census reports show that families headed by a single adult
are more likely to be headed by women, and these female-headed
households are at a greater risk of poverty. Almost 31% of households
headed by a single woman were living below the poverty line€”nearly five
times the 6.3% poverty rate for families headed by a married couple. For
households headed by a single male, 16.4% were living in poverty. Still
substantially higher than married.

Research by Sara McLanahan at Princeton University and others tells us
that boys are significantly more likely to end up in jail or prison by
the time they turn 30 if they are raised by a single mother. She found
that boys raised in a single-parent household were more than twice as
likely to be incarcerated, compared with boys raised in an intact,
married home, even after controlling for differences in parental income,
education, race, and ethnicity. Research on young men suggests they are
less likely to engage in delinquent or illegal behavior when they have
the affection, attention, and monitoring of their own mother and father.

Another researcher, Bruce Ellis of the University of Arizona found that
single female head of household also had a negative impact on girls.
About one-third of girls whose fathers left the home before they turned
6 ended up pregnant as teenagers, compared with just 5 percent of girls
whose fathers were there throughout their childhood. The divide marrowed
when controlled for parents socioeconomic background€”but only by a few
percentage points. The research on this topic suggests that girls raised
by single mothers are less likely to be supervised, more likely to
engage in early sex, and to end up pregnant compared with girls raised
by their own married parents.

Just to reiterate, these problems follow the status of the family and
not race. It is just that the rates in black communities are so much
higher.

As to reversing that. Your idea is as good as mine, probably better.
Although I note that in certain socioeconomic areas, the white
population's single parent households are approaching the rates seen in
minorities. I am wondering if there is a certain tipping point where
whites having the problems associated will all of a sudden make the
problem real. My more cynical notes that most since whites in this
basket tend to be of lower socioeconomic status (rednecks, trailer
dwellers, white trash) there are some doubts.

For a good discussion of the topic, I send you to Slate (hardly a
mouthpiece for the Right).
http://www.slate.com/articles/double...children_.html

This is but one problem, but it does address many of the
underlying issues which have to be taken care also or the "don't look
like us" problem solve the problems.
I have long wondered what the Federal Government has had against
black people. In the 60s, Interstate highways coming through center
cities disrupted well established black communities, social patterns,
and commerce. It also enabled, if not outright encouraged white flight.
A little later desegregation made neighborhood schools
essentially illegal and we all know the importance to community cohesion
and the ability of parents to stay involved in their children's
education that is. Especially since most the judges involved in busing
orders, etc., have noted that over the years the natural pattern of
migration within the districts have resulted in resegregation.
I am not calling for separate and equal, but rather equal and
neighborhood. (With some controls to prevent gerrymandering and
enforcing the equal part).
Finally, welfare. The structure of the program was such that
there were distinct incentive to procreate since every kid (at least
until reform under Clinton) was extra money.

The more important part of this discussion, though, structure was such
that there were financial disincentives for intact families, essentially
making having a male in the household a bad thing. Indeed taking away a
main function of the male, financial support (see above why that is a
bad thing.

While I know generally the stigma against out of wedlock child birth
went down, the charts suggest that various governmental iniatives (such
as welfare) did nothing to slow it down and may have accelerated it.

On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 7:25:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Bod wrote: "This keeps happening time after time. There must be something wrong with
police candidates selection. It's coming across to the rest of the world
that a core of psychpathic trigger happy cops need weeding out, now!
I'm sure that most US cops are not like that, but something needs to be
done because it has become an all too regular occurrence. "


With 900,000 LEO and a few of these incidents a year, exactly what
statistical rate is acceptable? In my world, 5/900,000 is a very
small number.




It's not the police officers themselves. At least, not 99% of them.
Out of 1,000 randomly picked officers, you'd likely find no more
than 10 who are trigger-happy, racist, or both.

Our police are being trained that certain (racial/ethnic)groups
must be dealt with with a higher level of force - including lethal,
if necessary. At the other end of the 'process' is a jury-based
court system that consistently rules in favor of the officer involved,
perpetuating this myth that one broke the law simply 'by being
non-white'.


Please show us evidence of this training that you claim. In the two
recent cases here, one had a gun and would not put it down, the other
apparently was high on PCP and was disregarding police commands,
including to keep his hands away from his pockets. THAT is what I
see, not whether the guy is black or white. Who's the real racist
here?


The problem is SYSTEMIC - so we can't simply heap blame on
one group(police officers, etc). We must examine what really needs
fixing in this country - an ATTITUDE, a deeply entrenched belief
concerning people who 'don't look like us'. THAT is what needs
a good looking at.

Yeah, what a problem. 900,000 cops and two cases in a month, one
where the guy had a gun and would not put it down, the other likely
high on PCP and not obeying police commands.

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 10:02:50 AM UTC-4, Kurt V. Ullman wrote:
On 9/23/16 7:25 PM, wrote:

The problem is SYSTEMIC - so we can't simply heap blame on
one group(police officers, etc). We must examine what really needs
fixing in this country - an ATTITUDE, a deeply entrenched belief
concerning people who 'don't look like us'. THAT is what needs
a good looking at.

Since FBI stats show that blacks commit 33% of violent crimes (rapes,
murders, etc.) while having 18% of the population would indicate that
perhaps there is a reason to be concerned about higher levels of
violence.

Blacks are only actually 13.6% of the population.



So is the fact that the murder rate (51.5/100,000 population)
is 10 times that of the general population, 17 times that whites, 4
times that of hispanics.
But, we also have to fix the problems within the community.
Children in single parent households are 66% of black families compared
to 35% overall.

+1
But you're not supposed to talk about that. IT's one of the things
you would expect a real leader with the authority on the matter to
speak out about, but he won't. Instead he condemns the cops in
Cambridge or similar, without even knowing the facts.



While I know generally the stigma against out of wedlock child birth
went down, the charts suggest that various governmental iniatives (such
as welfare) did nothing to slow it down and may have accelerated it.

On 9/24/16 12:14 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 7:25:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Bod wrote: "This keeps happening time after time. There must be something wrong with
police candidates selection. It's coming across to the rest of the world
that a core of psychpathic trigger happy cops need weeding out, now!
I'm sure that most US cops are not like that, but something needs to be
done because it has become an all too regular occurrence. "


With 900,000 LEO and a few of these incidents a year, exactly what
statistical rate is acceptable? In my world, 5/900,000 is a very
small number.


The better stat is probably the chances of getting killed by a cop per
encounter (I like rates better than just raw numbers, personally.)


FBI suggests around 11 million interactions with people by police per
year. So using the 990 deaths in the Washington Post database for 2015
and rounding it up to 1000 because it is easier for me, there is .11
deaths per 100,000 interactions. Across all ethnicities.

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 12:58:39 PM UTC-4, Kurt V. Ullman wrote:
On 9/24/16 12:14 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 7:25:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Bod wrote: "This keeps happening time after time. There must be something wrong with
police candidates selection. It's coming across to the rest of the world
that a core of psychpathic trigger happy cops need weeding out, now!
I'm sure that most US cops are not like that, but something needs to be
done because it has become an all too regular occurrence. "


With 900,000 LEO and a few of these incidents a year, exactly what
statistical rate is acceptable? In my world, 5/900,000 is a very
small number.


The better stat is probably the chances of getting killed by a cop per
encounter (I like rates better than just raw numbers, personally.)


FBI suggests around 11 million interactions with people by police per
year. So using the 990 deaths in the Washington Post database for 2015
and rounding it up to 1000 because it is easier for me, there is .11
deaths per 100,000 interactions. Across all ethnicities.



Or looking at it another way, that's 1 in a million. That's better than
the death rate for aspirin, driving to the local store for a quart of
milk, or getting hit by lightning. If lightning hits a black man, is
it racist?

On 9/24/16 1:02 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 12:58:39 PM UTC-4, Kurt V. Ullman wrote:


Or looking at it another way, that's 1 in a million. That's better than
the death rate for aspirin, driving to the local store for a quart of
milk, or getting hit by lightning. If lightning hits a black man, is
it racist?

Had a person call me on this saying that there are more interactions
with black people so the rate had to be much higher. Couldn't convince
them that was a rate and based on per interaction which compensated for
that bias. Sometimes I weep for America....

Per Kurt V. Ullman:
With 900,000 LEO and a few of these incidents a year, exactly what
statistical rate is acceptable? In my world, 5/900,000 is a very
small number.


The better stat is probably the chances of getting killed by a cop per
encounter (I like rates better than just raw numbers, personally.)


FBI suggests around 11 million interactions with people by police per
year. So using the 990 deaths in the Washington Post database for 2015
and rounding it up to 1000 because it is easier for me, there is .11
deaths per 100,000 interactions. Across all ethnicities.

Now... somebody is making some sense....
--
Pete Cresswell