I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

On 05/17/2016 08:57 PM, bob_villain wrote:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!





The determining factor is the breaker feeding the sub-panel

On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:57:47 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!
You can if you put it on a 40 amp breaker --- You DO need a feed
breaker for the panel.

On Tue, 17 May 2016 20:57:47 -0500, bob_villain
wrote:

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire
to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider
the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load?
Thanks!

Don't you meed to run four wires?


--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:57:47 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

It will be overkill if you are installing a 120/240 2/4 slot panel.
That is 40a per phase as Clare said but you do need 3 wire plus ground
(4 wires total) as Dean said.
GE does make that 2/4 panel and I have seen it at about $14 each plus
4 skinny GE breakers.

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:15:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:57:47 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!
You can if you put it on a 40 amp breaker --- You DO need a feed
breaker for the panel.

So you're saying a 40A feed breaker and the sub panel can have 2 20A breakers?

On Tue, 17 May 2016 20:06:14 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:15:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:57:47 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!
You can if you put it on a 40 amp breaker --- You DO need a feed
breaker for the panel.

So you're saying a 40A feed breaker and the sub panel can have 2 20A breakers?

Yes if you are feeding it with a 2 pole 40 (240v) and you are using
single pole branch circuit breakers (four 120v circuits)

In article , says...

On 05/17/2016 08:57 PM, bob_villain wrote:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!





The determining factor is the breaker feeding the sub-panel


If in the US you will need 4 wires, 2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground. You
put in a breaker in the main panel and that determins the size of the
wire you will need to use. At the sub panel you could most likely
install 10 of the 20 amp breakers if you wanted to. You would not be
able to use all of them at that current as the brakere at the main would
trip first. Similar to most houses. If you total up all the breakers
most likely they will be larger than the main breaker.
Not many are going to use everything at once.

On Tue, 17 May 2016 20:06:14 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:15:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:57:47 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!
You can if you put it on a 40 amp breaker --- You DO need a feed
breaker for the panel.

So you're saying a 40A feed breaker and the sub panel can have 2 20A breakers?
It can have 4.
Look at your common 100 amp breaker panel - room for 32 breakers -
even at 15 amps each, that's WAY over 100 amps. It's over 200.

Even if it's only an 18 slot panel - the range and drier alone acount
fot 90 amps??? Add cental air for another 20.

On Tue, 17 May 2016 21:36:50 -0500, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2016 20:57:47 -0500, bob_villain
wrote:

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire
to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider
the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load?
Thanks!

Don't you meed to run four wires?
3 wire+ground - which a 6/3 cable contains.

On Wed, 18 May 2016 00:49:02 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2016 20:06:14 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:15:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:57:47 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!
You can if you put it on a 40 amp breaker --- You DO need a feed
breaker for the panel.

So you're saying a 40A feed breaker and the sub panel can have 2 20A breakers?
It can have 4.
Look at your common 100 amp breaker panel - room for 32 breakers -
even at 15 amps each, that's WAY over 100 amps. It's over 200.

Even if it's only an 18 slot panel - the range and drier alone acount
fot 90 amps??? Add cental air for another 20.

This looks like what the OP wants if he only wants 4 circuits
It is 3R rated but you can use it inside.
http://tinyurl.com/j4ehra8
http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-PowerM...RCUP/100115114

On Tue, 17 May 2016 23:51:28 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2016 21:36:50 -0500, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2016 20:57:47 -0500, bob_villain
wrote:

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire
to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider
the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load?
Thanks!

Don't you meed to run four wires?
3 wire+ground - which a 6/3 cable contains.

That's an odd thing on the terminology. We deal with 3 phase 480.
The underground cable we bury is called quad. One wire is marked as
the ground from the factory. #4 has all the wires the same size. Cable
larger than that has the ground one size smaller than the other three.


--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Wed, 18 May 2016 05:27:39 -0500, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

That's an odd thing on the terminology. We deal with 3 phase 480.
The underground cable we bury is called quad. One wire is marked as
the ground from the factory. #4 has all the wires the same size. Cable
larger than that has the ground one size smaller than the other three.

250.122 will allow a smaller grounding conductor in any cable larger
than #10 (30a O/C device) as a general rule. The regular #8-3 with
ground will have a bare #10 in it for the EGC.

On 05/18/2016 5:27 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 23:51:28 -0500, wrote:
....

Don't you meed to run four wires?
3 wire+ground - which a 6/3 cable contains.

That's an odd thing on the terminology. We deal with 3 phase 480.
The underground cable we bury is called quad. One wire is marked as
the ground from the factory....

It's leftover from the pre required-grounding days in the Code when
there was mostly (say) 14/2 or whatever and then there was 14/2 w/g
which, of course, has three wires in the cable but couldn't call that
14/3 'cuz that was already taken for the case w/o ground and so on and
so on...

If ground had been required from the git-go, common nomenclature would
likely have been different and just counted the total number...

--

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 11:49:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 20:06:14 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:15:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:57:47 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!
You can if you put it on a 40 amp breaker --- You DO need a feed
breaker for the panel.

So you're saying a 40A feed breaker and the sub panel can have 2 20A breakers?
It can have 4.
Look at your common 100 amp breaker panel - room for 32 breakers -
even at 15 amps each, that's WAY over 100 amps. It's over 200.

Even if it's only an 18 slot panel - the range and drier alone acount
fot 90 amps??? Add cental air for another 20.

Thanks...that was my assumption, but I wanted "clare"ification!

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 7:01:18 PM UTC-5, John G wrote:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Thanks John, besides a circuit for fluorescent and LED lighting...there will be only one (table saw, miter saw, grinder, etc.) used at a time.

On Thu, 19 May 2016 17:55:31 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 7:01:18 PM UTC-5, John G wrote:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Thanks John, besides a circuit for fluorescent and LED lighting...there will be only one (table saw, miter saw, grinder, etc.) used at a time.

If you do run that #6 in pretty much anything but Romex, (limited to
the 60c column) you can hang a 60a breaker on it and put in a pretty
nice sub panel. THHN in pipe would be an example of a wiring method
that would get you into the 75c column (65a). At that point I would be
looking at a 6 or 8 slot panel for a few bucks more than that 2/4 GE I
linked the other day.

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 9:25:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 17:55:31 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 7:01:18 PM UTC-5, John G wrote:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Thanks John, besides a circuit for fluorescent and LED lighting...there will be only one (table saw, miter saw, grinder, etc.) used at a time.

If you do run that #6 in pretty much anything but Romex, (limited to
the 60c column) you can hang a 60a breaker on it and put in a pretty
nice sub panel. THHN in pipe would be an example of a wiring method
that would get you into the 75c column (65a). At that point I would be
looking at a 6 or 8 slot panel for a few bucks more than that 2/4 GE I
linked the other day.


always better to go BIG when planning electrical upgrades. while up sizing may cost a bit more, its cheaper than upgrading later

John G writes:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

Do not use a ground rod with the subpanel; aside from being a NEC
code violation, it can induce current in the grounding conductor.
There should only be one grounding point in the system, and that
should be at the service entrance.

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

Do not use a ground rod with the subpanel; aside from being a NEC
code violation, it can induce current in the grounding conductor.
There should only be one grounding point in the system, and that
should be at the service entrance.

Could you please cite the code reference that says that you cannot install a ground rod on a sub-panel. They are required for separate buildings and are used for lightning protection. They cannot be bonded to the neutral in a sub-panel.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

On Fri, 20 May 2016 13:09:00 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

John G writes:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

Do not use a ground rod with the subpanel; aside from being a NEC
code violation, it can induce current in the grounding conductor.
There should only be one grounding point in the system, and that
should be at the service entrance.

There is no limit to the number of rods or other electrodes you use,
only a limit of one main bonding jumper where the neutral gets tied to
the grounding electrode system. In fact, if this sub panel is in a
separate structure, another electrode is required.

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga.
3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to
consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the
maximum load? Thanks!

A subpanel should be connected with FOUR wires (two hots, separate neutral,
and ground).

The neutral bar in the subpanel must be isolated from the ground bar (the
ground and neutral must not be connected in the subpanel).

You can use as many breakers in the subpanel as you wish (as many as the
panel supports anyway). However, you need to determine what the typical
total load of all those branches will be. For example, will you be running
two or three machines at the same time?

If your expected load is less than 60 amps, you can use 6 gauge wire to
supply your subpanel. It should be protected by a 60 amp breaker in the
MAIN panel.

In the subpanel, you would protect each individual branch with
appropriately sized breakers (15 amp for 14-gauge wire, 20 amp for 12 gauge
wire, etc.).

If you overload an individual branch, the corresponding breaker in the
subpanel will trip.

If you load multiple branches at once (i.e. 18 amps on four branches),
you'll trip the breaker back in the main panel, even if you don't
necessarily overload an individual branch in the subpanel.

Do not use a ground rod with the subpanel; aside from being a NEC
code violation, it can induce current in the grounding conductor.
There should only be one grounding point in the system, and that
should be at the service entrance.

If the subpanel is in a detached building, you must add a grounding rod at
that building (NEC 250.32(a) I believe).

Multiple grounds are fine (ground rods, buried metal water pipe, rebar in
the foundation, etc.) but all grounds must be bonded together with wiring.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On Fri, 20 May 2016 04:41:58 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 9:25:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 17:55:31 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 7:01:18 PM UTC-5, John G wrote:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

Thanks John, besides a circuit for fluorescent and LED lighting...there will be only one (table saw, miter saw, grinder, etc.) used at a time.

If you do run that #6 in pretty much anything but Romex, (limited to
the 60c column) you can hang a 60a breaker on it and put in a pretty
nice sub panel. THHN in pipe would be an example of a wiring method
that would get you into the 75c column (65a). At that point I would be
looking at a 6 or 8 slot panel for a few bucks more than that 2/4 GE I
linked the other day.


always better to go BIG when planning electrical upgrades. while up sizing may cost a bit more, its cheaper than upgrading later

"why is there always enough money to do something over, but never
enough to do it right?"

On Fri, 20 May 2016 10:33:02 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 20 May 2016 13:09:00 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

John G writes:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

Do not use a ground rod with the subpanel; aside from being a NEC
code violation, it can induce current in the grounding conductor.
There should only be one grounding point in the system, and that
should be at the service entrance.

There is no limit to the number of rods or other electrodes you use,
only a limit of one main bonding jumper where the neutral gets tied to
the grounding electrode system. In fact, if this sub panel is in a
separate structure, another electrode is required.
That was my interpretation too. Ground at avery distribution panel,
but only one ground to neutral bod (as close to the main service
entrance as possible)

On Fri, 20 May 2016 14:54:21 -0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga.
3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to
consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the
maximum load? Thanks!

A subpanel should be connected with FOUR wires (two hots, separate neutral,
and ground).

The neutral bar in the subpanel must be isolated from the ground bar (the
ground and neutral must not be connected in the subpanel).

You can use as many breakers in the subpanel as you wish (as many as the
panel supports anyway). However, you need to determine what the typical
total load of all those branches will be. For example, will you be running
two or three machines at the same time?

If your expected load is less than 60 amps, you can use 6 gauge wire to
supply your subpanel. It should be protected by a 60 amp breaker in the
MAIN panel.

In the subpanel, you would protect each individual branch with
appropriately sized breakers (15 amp for 14-gauge wire, 20 amp for 12 gauge
wire, etc.).

If you overload an individual branch, the corresponding breaker in the
subpanel will trip.

If you load multiple branches at once (i.e. 18 amps on four branches),
you'll trip the breaker back in the main panel, even if you don't
necessarily overload an individual branch in the subpanel.

Do not use a ground rod with the subpanel; aside from being a NEC
code violation, it can induce current in the grounding conductor.
There should only be one grounding point in the system, and that
should be at the service entrance.

If the subpanel is in a detached building, you must add a grounding rod at
that building (NEC 250.32(a) I believe).

Multiple grounds are fine (ground rods, buried metal water pipe, rebar in
the foundation, etc.) but all grounds must be bonded together with wiring.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
I believe if the sub panel in an outbuilding has more than six slots
it also needs a main disconnect - either a main switch or (more
commonly) a main breaker -

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 12:56:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 10:33:02 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 20 May 2016 13:09:00 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

John G writes:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

Do not use a ground rod with the subpanel; aside from being a NEC
code violation, it can induce current in the grounding conductor.
There should only be one grounding point in the system, and that
should be at the service entrance.

There is no limit to the number of rods or other electrodes you use,
only a limit of one main bonding jumper where the neutral gets tied to
the grounding electrode system. In fact, if this sub panel is in a
separate structure, another electrode is required.
That was my interpretation too. Ground at avery distribution panel,
but only one ground to neutral bod (as close to the main service
entrance as possible)

You can have more than one ground, but a separate ground at every
subpanel is not required either.

I believe if the sub panel in an outbuilding has more than six slots
it also needs a main disconnect - either a main switch or (more
commonly) a main breaker

A main breaker is required in a detached structure if there are more than
six breakers in the panel.

If the subpanel is in the same building as the main panel, I believe the
breaker in the main panel qualifies as the disconnect even if you have more
than six breakers in the subpanel.

Regardless, I prefer having a main breaker in a panel. If there's an
electrical issue, or you want to make changes, you can just kill the whole
panel instead of trying to figure out which circuit you're on. It's also
safer working in a panel when you can kill the main breaker and disconnect
all power from the panel.

When I built my pump house back in 1991, I thought the electrical inspector
said the limit was four breakers max without a main. Either he was wrong or
the codes have changed. In any case, I have a small panel in the pumphouse
that connect directly to the meter (not a subpanel). It has a double-pole
breaker for the pump, and a couple small breakers for lights and outlets.
There's no way to cut power to the panel if I need to replace a breaker or
something. I've done work in the live panel, but it's not something I would
recommend. If you slip with a screwdriver or something you have NO
overcurrent protection.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On Sat, 21 May 2016 16:03:18 -0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

When I built my pump house back in 1991, I thought the electrical inspector
said the limit was four breakers max without a main. Either he was wrong or
the codes have changed.

Back when they differentiated a "lighting and appliance" panelboard,
the limit was 2. I think that was prior to the 2002 or maybe 2005

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 11:56:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 10:33:02 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 20 May 2016 13:09:00 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

John G writes:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

Do not use a ground rod with the subpanel; aside from being a NEC
code violation, it can induce current in the grounding conductor.
There should only be one grounding point in the system, and that
should be at the service entrance.

There is no limit to the number of rods or other electrodes you use,
only a limit of one main bonding jumper where the neutral gets tied to
the grounding electrode system. In fact, if this sub panel is in a
separate structure, another electrode is required.
That was my interpretation too. Ground at avery distribution panel,
but only one ground to neutral bod (as close to the main service
entrance as possible)

It is an attached garage (poorly wired) sharing a circuit with living, and dining. I want to extent (6-6-6-8) about 35' and use a 4-breaker box. Put existing receptacles on their own, and add a couple circuits for power tools.. Cheapest source for cable was .80/ft, but they wanted $18 shipping! I think HD is a little over $...I'll have to check them out.

On Sat, 21 May 2016 09:47:02 -0700 (PDT), bob_villain
wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 11:56:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 10:33:02 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 20 May 2016 13:09:00 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

John G writes:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

Do not use a ground rod with the subpanel; aside from being a NEC
code violation, it can induce current in the grounding conductor.
There should only be one grounding point in the system, and that
should be at the service entrance.

There is no limit to the number of rods or other electrodes you use,
only a limit of one main bonding jumper where the neutral gets tied to
the grounding electrode system. In fact, if this sub panel is in a
separate structure, another electrode is required.
That was my interpretation too. Ground at avery distribution panel,
but only one ground to neutral bod (as close to the main service
entrance as possible)

It is an attached garage (poorly wired) sharing a circuit with living, and dining. I want to extent (6-6-6-8) about 35' and use a 4-breaker box. Put existing receptacles on their own, and add a couple circuits for power tools. Cheapest source for cable was .80/ft, but they wanted $18 shipping! I think HD is a little over $...I'll have to check them out.

Usually HD/Lowes will be competitive with any other deal you can find
unless you have an account at a supply house and get the discount.

It is an attached garage (poorly wired) sharing a circuit with living,
and dining. I want to extent (6-6-6-8) about 35' and use a 4-breaker
box. Put existing receptacles on their own, and add a couple circuits
for power tools.

If you have extra slots in your main panel, you might want to compare the
costs of just running four individual circuits from the main panel. Four 12
gauge Romex cables would probably accomodate what you're needing.

You might pay slightly more for the cables, but you wouldn't need a
subpanel, or the extra breaker in the main panel.

Just something to consider.

Cheapest source for cable was .80/ft, but they wanted
$18 shipping! I think HD is a little over $

Copper is heavy, so it's usually cheaper to buy it locally. Home Depot has
a more limited selection, but their prices are hard to beat if they have
what you need.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 5/17/2016 6:57 PM, bob_villain wrote:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!


Bob? You want some hot sauce with them burros, little beaner feller?
LOL

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:59:34 PM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
It is an attached garage (poorly wired) sharing a circuit with living,
and dining. I want to extent (6-6-6-8) about 35' and use a 4-breaker
box. Put existing receptacles on their own, and add a couple circuits
for power tools.

If you have extra slots in your main panel, you might want to compare the
costs of just running four individual circuits from the main panel. Four 12
gauge Romex cables would probably accomodate what you're needing.

You might pay slightly more for the cables, but you wouldn't need a
subpanel, or the extra breaker in the main panel.

Just something to consider.

Cheapest source for cable was .80/ft, but they wanted
$18 shipping! I think HD is a little over $

Copper is heavy, so it's usually cheaper to buy it locally. Home Depot has
a more limited selection, but their prices are hard to beat if they have
what you need.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

Thanks for that...I could get away with running 2 circuits (#12) from the main box and that would be a solution. Is handy to have the breaker in the garage, but not necessary. Good thought!

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:59:34 PM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
It is an attached garage (poorly wired) sharing a circuit with living,
and dining. I want to extent (6-6-6-8) about 35' and use a 4-breaker
box. Put existing receptacles on their own, and add a couple circuits
for power tools.

If you have extra slots in your main panel, you might want to compare the
costs of just running four individual circuits from the main panel. Four 12
gauge Romex cables would probably accomodate what you're needing.

You might pay slightly more for the cables, but you wouldn't need a
subpanel, or the extra breaker in the main panel.

Just something to consider.

Cheapest source for cable was .80/ft, but they wanted
$18 shipping! I think HD is a little over $

Copper is heavy, so it's usually cheaper to buy it locally. Home Depot has
a more limited selection, but their prices are hard to beat if they have
what you need.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

....the panel is cheap, and I have the main panel breaker...I will need the 6-6-6-8, and a couple 20A breakers. I will try to go with a sub panel...it won't be that much more expense.

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 2:02:22 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 12:56:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 10:33:02 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 20 May 2016 13:09:00 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

John G writes:
I want to put a sub-panel in a connected garage. Can I use 6-ga. 3-wire to supply a panel with 4 breakers (20A each)? Do you have to consider the possible use of all of the circuits carrying the maximum load? Thanks!

You do need to consider what the total load of the panel will be at any given time. Will you be running machines constantly or intermittently? You do not have to total up the rating of the individual circuit breakers.

You need four wires for a sub-panel and I think a ground rod for lightning protection is a good idea.

Do not use a ground rod with the subpanel; aside from being a NEC
code violation, it can induce current in the grounding conductor.
There should only be one grounding point in the system, and that
should be at the service entrance.

There is no limit to the number of rods or other electrodes you use,
only a limit of one main bonding jumper where the neutral gets tied to
the grounding electrode system. In fact, if this sub panel is in a
separate structure, another electrode is required.
That was my interpretation too. Ground at avery distribution panel,
but only one ground to neutral bod (as close to the main service
entrance as possible)

You can have more than one ground, but a separate ground at every
subpanel is not required either.

....unless the sub-panels are each in different buildings.

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:59:34 PM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
It is an attached garage (poorly wired) sharing a circuit with living,
and dining. I want to extent (6-6-6-8) about 35' and use a 4-breaker
box. Put existing receptacles on their own, and add a couple circuits
for power tools.

If you have extra slots in your main panel, you might want to compare the
costs of just running four individual circuits from the main panel. Four 12
gauge Romex cables would probably accomodate what you're needing.


I decided on separate wires from the main box (3 circuits + existing light circuit). One circuit for existing outlets...and two for power tools, using #12 NM. Thanks for all the info!

It is an attached garage (poorly wired) sharing a circuit with
living, and dining. I want to extent (6-6-6-8) about 35' and use a
4-breaker box. Put existing receptacles on their own, and add a
couple circuits for power tools.

If you have extra slots in your main panel, you might want to compare
the costs of just running four individual circuits from the main
panel. Four 12 gauge Romex cables would probably accomodate what
you're needing.

I decided on separate wires from the main box (3 circuits + existing
light circuit). One circuit for existing outlets...and two for power
tools, using #12 NM. Thanks for all the info!

I'm glad you found a solution that worked for you. Thanks for letting us
know how it turned out.

Take care,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 11:49:21 PM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
It is an attached garage (poorly wired) sharing a circuit with
living, and dining. I want to extent (6-6-6-8) about 35' and use a
4-breaker box. Put existing receptacles on their own, and add a
couple circuits for power tools.

If you have extra slots in your main panel, you might want to compare
the costs of just running four individual circuits from the main
panel. Four 12 gauge Romex cables would probably accomodate what
you're needing.

I decided on separate wires from the main box (3 circuits + existing
light circuit). One circuit for existing outlets...and two for power
tools, using #12 NM. Thanks for all the info!

I'm glad you found a solution that worked for you. Thanks for letting us
know how it turned out.

Take care,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

I was having difficulty finding 6-6-6-8 aluminum SER cable, locally...and (as you said) shipping charges are prohibitive.