After installing around 50 updates - including all security updates for
IE8 - manually I am now able to access windows update online . The comp is
now downloading 104 security updates from M$ .

--
Snag
Kiss my ass HO-ANN

On 05/12/2016 08:55 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
After installing around 50 updates - including all security updates for
IE8 - manually I am now able to access windows update online . The comp is
now downloading 104 security updates from M$ .




Glad you got it working.

MS is just making it a bit harder to get updates for their older
operating systems...and with Win10 they are making it too easy...VIZ:
Giving them to you when you don't want them

philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 08:55 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
After installing around 50 updates - including all security
updates for IE8 - manually I am now able to access windows update
online . The comp is now downloading 104 security updates from M$ .




Glad you got it working.

MS is just making it a bit harder to get updates for their older
operating systems...and with Win10 they are making it too easy...VIZ:
Giving them to you when you don't want them

One of the first things I did when we got the "new" W7 laptop (Lenovo 4180
refurb from Newegg) was disable the W10 updates . Everything I've read/heard
indicates they're trying to force everyone W7 and later to upgrade whether
they want it or not . Too many privacy issues for my taste - I won't use
cloud storage either . At least with the files all on my own machine I stand
a chance of retaining *some* privacy .

--
Snag

On Thu, 12 May 2016 20:55:08 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

After installing around 50 updates - including all security updates for
IE8 - manually I am now able to access windows update online . The comp is
now downloading 104 security updates from M$ .

Cool, I am glad top see they are still there. You had me ready to load
a machine to try it. (I always have something around here that could
use a brain transplant)
When I load one and put SP3 on, the updates come overnight.

Just for gee whiz info, their authentication server seems to be turned
off. I have loaded 2 machines the same day with the same key and both
of them got updated. When I went for MovieMaker, they passed the
"genuine" test.

On 05/12/2016 09:29 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 08:55 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
After installing around 50 updates - including all security
updates for IE8 - manually I am now able to access windows update
online . The comp is now downloading 104 security updates from M$ .




Glad you got it working.

MS is just making it a bit harder to get updates for their older
operating systems...and with Win10 they are making it too easy...VIZ:
Giving them to you when you don't want them

One of the first things I did when we got the "new" W7 laptop (Lenovo 4180
refurb from Newegg) was disable the W10 updates . Everything I've read/heard
indicates they're trying to force everyone W7 and later to upgrade whether
they want it or not . Too many privacy issues for my taste - I won't use
cloud storage either . At least with the files all on my own machine I stand
a chance of retaining *some* privacy .




Though I don't use Win10, I am evaluating it.


They don't make it easy but it can be tweaked to turn off automatic
updates and huge portions of the default spying can be disabled.

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many years.

On Thu, 12 May 2016 22:00:36 -0500, philo wrote:

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many years.

That only takes you up the ladder one step from guys like me with XP.

On Thu, 12 May 2016 21:29:27 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 08:55 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
After installing around 50 updates - including all security
updates for IE8 - manually I am now able to access windows update
online . The comp is now downloading 104 security updates from M$ .




Glad you got it working.

MS is just making it a bit harder to get updates for their older
operating systems...and with Win10 they are making it too easy...VIZ:
Giving them to you when you don't want them

One of the first things I did when we got the "new" W7 laptop (Lenovo 4180
refurb from Newegg) was disable the W10 updates . Everything I've read/heard
indicates they're trying to force everyone W7 and later to upgrade whether
they want it or not . Too many privacy issues for my taste - I won't use
cloud storage either . At least with the files all on my own machine I stand
a chance of retaining *some* privacy .
With the "custom install" option you can shut off virtually all the
"privacy issue" concerns.

On 5/12/2016 6:55 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
After installing around 50 updates - including all security updates for
IE8 - manually I am now able to access windows update online . The comp is
now downloading 104 security updates from M$ .

The wsoffline tools should have had all of the "required" updates.
Did it NOT install all of them?

Also, you should review each update as MS's idea of "security"/required
may differ from yours!

Don Y wrote:
On 5/12/2016 6:55 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
After installing around 50 updates - including all security
updates for IE8 - manually I am now able to access windows update
online . The comp is now downloading 104 security updates from M$ .

The wsoffline tools should have had all of the "required" updates.
Did it NOT install all of them?

Also, you should review each update as MS's idea of
"security"/required may differ from yours!

The updates are there but I found no way to install them except one at a
time . Tht gets old after the first 15 or 20 ...

--
Snag

On 05/12/2016 10:27 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 22:00:36 -0500, philo wrote:

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many years.

That only takes you up the ladder one step from guys like me with XP.




As to which OS I use...as long as it does the job, that's the bottom line.


I have just about every OS you can imagine at my fingertips.


Though I mainly use Linux, I've got both XP and Win7 machines at my
disposal. ...but many many more...pretty much every thing between Win1
and Win10 inclusive...

and what the heck, a number of Mac's as well (both PPC and Intel)

On 05/13/2016 12:28 AM, wrote:

One of the first things I did when we got the "new" W7 laptop (Lenovo 4180
refurb from Newegg) was disable the W10 updates . Everything I've read/heard
indicates they're trying to force everyone W7 and later to upgrade whether
they want it or not . Too many privacy issues for my taste - I won't use
cloud storage either . At least with the files all on my own machine I stand
a chance of retaining *some* privacy .
With the "custom install" option you can shut off virtually all the
"privacy issue" concerns.




Yes, the first time I did a Win10 install, I just went with the express
setup.

Next time I took the "custom" option and even for Microsoft was shocked
by all the spying they enable by default. I suggest no one use that
option...though the spying can be turned off later.


If you do not have the "Home" version of Win10, " policy editor" allows
manual control of updates and reboots.

Google will give the exact instructions.

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 11:00:39 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 09:29 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 08:55 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
After installing around 50 updates - including all security
updates for IE8 - manually I am now able to access windows update
online . The comp is now downloading 104 security updates from M$ .




Glad you got it working.

MS is just making it a bit harder to get updates for their older
operating systems...and with Win10 they are making it too easy...VIZ:
Giving them to you when you don't want them

One of the first things I did when we got the "new" W7 laptop (Lenovo 4180
refurb from Newegg) was disable the W10 updates . Everything I've read/heard
indicates they're trying to force everyone W7 and later to upgrade whether
they want it or not . Too many privacy issues for my taste - I won't use
cloud storage either . At least with the files all on my own machine I stand
a chance of retaining *some* privacy .




Though I don't use Win10, I am evaluating it.


They don't make it easy but it can be tweaked to turn off automatic
updates and huge portions of the default spying can be disabled.

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many years.

I looked at the demos for Win 10. From what I can see it's different
enough from Win 7 to be annoying, but not so different that you can't
get it to be close to Win 7 and learn how to use it. A friend said that
was his experience, he had to spend time changing some things around, etc.

On the other hand, I see no new features, benefits to me. The only
neat thing I saw was that you can mark up a webpage and then send it
to someone. For example, you could circle a couple of things on a
page. On the other hand, I don't have the need to do that. And even
worse, that only works with a touchscreen device.

So, for me the only real advantage would be to be able to move to
Win 10 for free and be on a new product that has a longer support
life than the Win 7, which is now 3 1/2 more years. I'll probably
move before the free upgrade runs out soon. But I also wouldn't be
surprised if they extend that.

On 5/13/2016 5:09 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Don Y wrote:
On 5/12/2016 6:55 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
After installing around 50 updates - including all security
updates for IE8 - manually I am now able to access windows update
online . The comp is now downloading 104 security updates from M$ .

The wsoffline tools should have had all of the "required" updates.
Did it NOT install all of them?

Also, you should review each update as MS's idea of
"security"/required may differ from yours!

The updates are there but I found no way to install them except one at a
time . Tht gets old after the first 15 or 20 ...

There are two programs involved.

UpdateGenerator.exe gives you a dialog that lets you decide which
updates you want to download (fetch) from Microsoft. You "tick" boxes
for all of the updates that you want and it chugs along for ages
getting all of the files.

Once you have the updates on a "local disk", you run UpdateInstaller.exe.
This lets you decide which updates you want to *install*. Again, you
"tick" boxes in a dialog for things like:
- C++ runtime libraries
- Security Essentials
- Remote Desktop client
- .NET frameworks
etc.

There are two boxes in this dialog that you "always" want to tick:
- verify the updates (ensures the files that you PREVIOUSLY downloaded
are intact and genuine/signed)
- show log file

Once you begin, it sorts out which updates you NEED to install based
on your "ticked" choices. Then, it figures out what prerequisites
each of those require (it does this by examining a file that it
downloaded previously that declares these prerequisites). It usually
takes a long time (several minutes, depending on CPU speed) to sort
through this "prerequisite list".

[The prerequisite list says things like: install update KB345039
before KB998744, install update KB747463 if .NET4 is present, etc.]

Then, it chugs through the hundred plus updates applying them
in the "correct" order -- and only those that SHOULD be applied.

While this is happening, you see a DOS box (text screen) that
just rattles off all of the files that it is installing:
"Installing update 1 of 115
Verifying integrity of \blah\blah\update1's_real_name
Installing \blah\blah\update1's_real_name
...
Installing update 47 of 115
Verifying integrity of \blah\blah\update47's_real_name
Installing \blah\blah\update47's_real_name
Installing update 48 of 115
Verifying integrity of \blah\blah\update48's_real_name
Installing \blah\blah\update48's_real_name
..."

When this is done, it will either say, "Done" or "Please reboot and ReRun".
The latter happens when the update process requires a reboot before it
can continue.

In either case, when you reboot, you end up seeing a (notepad?) window
that displays a log of all of the actions that it did. You can save
this so you can have a record of its actions -- which updates it
installed, etc. You can run the UpdateInstaller.exe again to
select other updates and this log file just grows.

So, if you are only interested in updating XP, ...
and, given that XP no longer has any NEW updates, ...
once you have downloaded all of the updates with UpdateGenerator.exe,
you NEVER need to talk to MS again!

Build a new machine? Install XP using your XP CD (with sp3, preferably).
Then, run UpdateInstaller.exe with the files you downloaded.

I.e., your machine has NEVER talked to MS and you have all of the
updates in place.

Repeat for the next machine...

Said another way, before your machine is ever exposed to the ugly/nasty
Internet, you can have all of the security updates in place!

On 5/13/2016 5:35 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 10:27 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 22:00:36 -0500, philo wrote:

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many years.

That only takes you up the ladder one step from guys like me with XP.

As to which OS I use...as long as it does the job, that's the bottom line.

I have just about every OS you can imagine at my fingertips.

BeOS? Unixware? Coherent UNIX? OpusV? Inferno? Jaluna? Amoeba? Mach-US?

Though I mainly use Linux, I've got both XP and Win7 machines at my disposal.
...but many many more...pretty much every thing between Win1 and Win10
inclusive...

and what the heck, a number of Mac's as well (both PPC and Intel)

How to get WinXp updates from MSFT till 2019, seems to work.... it's
pretty simple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPo3eF0RsvA

On 5/13/2016 9:17 AM, My 2 Cents wrote:
How to get WinXp updates from MSFT till 2019, seems to work.... it's pretty
simple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPo3eF0RsvA

I wouldn't trust that. XPe is not the same product as XP.
And, by installing the registry hack, you are *claiming*
that you are running XPe. If the update process takes
your word for it, it will blindly install updates that WILL
work on XPe but that might NOT work on XP! In the process,
wedging your system (how do you "back out" the offending update?
Call MS and complain -- and beg for help??)

On 05/13/2016 11:14 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/13/2016 5:35 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 10:27 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 22:00:36 -0500, philo wrote:

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many
years.

That only takes you up the ladder one step from guys like me with XP.

As to which OS I use...as long as it does the job, that's the bottom
line.

I have just about every OS you can imagine at my fingertips.

BeOS? Unixware? Coherent UNIX? OpusV? Inferno? Jaluna? Amoeba?
Mach-US?



Looks like I missed a lot!


Did have BeOS at one time.

I do have Plan 9 and several versions of OS/2 though


Though I mainly use Linux, I've got both XP and Win7 machines at my
disposal.
...but many many more...pretty much every thing between Win1 and Win10
inclusive...

and what the heck, a number of Mac's as well (both PPC and Intel)

On 05/13/2016 10:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:
O



Though I don't use Win10, I am evaluating it.


They don't make it easy but it can be tweaked to turn off automatic
updates and huge portions of the default spying can be disabled.

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many years.

I looked at the demos for Win 10. From what I can see it's different
enough from Win 7 to be annoying, but not so different that you can't
get it to be close to Win 7 and learn how to use it. A friend said that
was his experience, he had to spend time changing some things around, etc.

On the other hand, I see no new features, benefits to me. The only
neat thing I saw was that you can mark up a webpage and then send it
to someone. For example, you could circle a couple of things on a
page. On the other hand, I don't have the need to do that. And even
worse, that only works with a touchscreen device.

So, for me the only real advantage would be to be able to move to
Win 10 for free and be on a new product that has a longer support
life than the Win 7, which is now 3 1/2 more years. I'll probably
move before the free upgrade runs out soon. But I also wouldn't be
surprised if they extend that.



I decided to take one of my many "stand by" machines and update it to Win10.

It all went OK. probably won't use the machine unless I have some kind
of a minor emergency...but if it's a few years from now, at least I'll
have a newer OS on hand.

On 05/13/2016 11:30 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/13/2016 9:17 AM, My 2 Cents wrote:
How to get WinXp updates from MSFT till 2019, seems to work.... it's
pretty
simple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPo3eF0RsvA

I wouldn't trust that. XPe is not the same product as XP.
And, by installing the registry hack, you are *claiming*
that you are running XPe. If the update process takes
your word for it, it will blindly install updates that WILL
work on XPe but that might NOT work on XP! In the process,
wedging your system (how do you "back out" the offending update?
Call MS and complain -- and beg for help??)



I still have a few...not in use XP machines , so I might be willing to
try the experiment.


Windows XP embedded is really all the same components as a standard XP
install, it's simply that corporations using it can customize to leave
out un-needed components

On 5/13/2016 10:10 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/13/2016 11:30 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/13/2016 9:17 AM, My 2 Cents wrote:
How to get WinXp updates from MSFT till 2019, seems to work.... it's
pretty
simple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPo3eF0RsvA

I wouldn't trust that. XPe is not the same product as XP.
And, by installing the registry hack, you are *claiming*
that you are running XPe. If the update process takes
your word for it, it will blindly install updates that WILL
work on XPe but that might NOT work on XP! In the process,
wedging your system (how do you "back out" the offending update?
Call MS and complain -- and beg for help??)

I still have a few...not in use XP machines , so I might be willing to try the
experiment.

Windows XP embedded is really all the same components as a standard XP install,
it's simply that corporations using it can customize to leave out un-needed
components

In an embedded environment, the resources available are often
of significantly different character.

E.g., you may not have "secondary storage" (disk).
Or, you may have it just to *load* executables -- swapping to it
may not be possible (read/only) or *durable* (flash with limited
write cycles).

How you approach a problem (in software) depends in large part on
the resources that you expect to have available.

If, for example, you can read some large object into memory
(e.g., the registry) and crosslink individual records (to
expedite future accesses to that data), you can choose to:
- leave it there knowing it will get swapped out to disk
as needs for memory increase
- explicitly write it *once* to "disk" (flash) with the
expectation that you won't be updating it (much) and can
just re-read the portions that you need AS you need them
- never load it in the first place and, instead, read it off
the immutable medium and go through the efforts of extracting
the data more slowly

XPe boxes tend to have fewer and limited applications -- you're unlikely
to find AutoCAD running on an XPe box! Often, those applications can
remain resident in memory (RAM) and not need to swap.

XPe boxes probably have fewer network interfaces (I can put 2 dozen
network interfaces in my desktop machines; I have *four* in a little
SBC machine... on the same PCI card!). This simplifies the routing
tables and overall design of the network stack. They probably
need fewer sockets as you're unlikely to have several "network
applications" active simultaneously.

Etc.

It's like saying a motorcycle with sidecar is the same as a big Buick.

On 5/13/2016 9:58 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/13/2016 11:14 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/13/2016 5:35 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 10:27 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 22:00:36 -0500, philo wrote:

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many
years.

That only takes you up the ladder one step from guys like me with XP.

As to which OS I use...as long as it does the job, that's the bottom
line.

I have just about every OS you can imagine at my fingertips.

BeOS? Unixware? Coherent UNIX? OpusV? Inferno? Jaluna? Amoeba?
Mach-US?

Looks like I missed a lot!

Did have BeOS at one time.

I do have Plan 9 and several versions of OS/2 though

To be fair, there are lots of OS's out there. I picked on some of
the less well known -- avoiding the obvious ones like Solaris, FreeBSD,
OpenBSD, NetBSD, OS/X, MacOS, "Linux" (though Linux is just a kernel),
etc.

On 05/13/2016 12:39 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/13/2016 9:58 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/13/2016 11:14 AM, Don Y wrote:


snip
t!

Did have BeOS at one time.

I do have Plan 9 and several versions of OS/2 though

To be fair, there are lots of OS's out there. I picked on some of
the less well known -- avoiding the obvious ones like Solaris, FreeBSD,
OpenBSD, NetBSD, OS/X, MacOS, "Linux" (though Linux is just a kernel),
etc.


I have used or still have most of the above


The ones you listed previously , I assumed you were trying to stump me
and you did!

On 05/13/2016 12:36 PM, Don Y wrote:


snip

XPe boxes tend to have fewer and limited applications -- you're unlikely
to find AutoCAD running on an XPe box! Often, those applications can
remain resident in memory (RAM) and not need to swap.

XPe boxes probably have fewer network interfaces (I can put 2 dozen
network interfaces in my desktop machines; I have *four* in a little
SBC machine... on the same PCI card!). This simplifies the routing
tables and overall design of the network stack. They probably
need fewer sockets as you're unlikely to have several "network
applications" active simultaneously.

Etc.

Well, just for an experiment I may try that registry hack anyway


It's like saying a motorcycle with sidecar is the same as a big Buick.



Speaking of Buicks here one from 1957 which has been modified a bit


https://www.dropbox.com/s/5y9esf1ojd...Buick.jpg?dl=0


Yes, modified by photoshop but I like it
Someone posted it recently on FB thinking it was real

On 5/13/2016 10:55 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/13/2016 12:36 PM, Don Y wrote:


snip

XPe boxes tend to have fewer and limited applications -- you're unlikely
to find AutoCAD running on an XPe box! Often, those applications can
remain resident in memory (RAM) and not need to swap.

XPe boxes probably have fewer network interfaces (I can put 2 dozen
network interfaces in my desktop machines; I have *four* in a little
SBC machine... on the same PCI card!). This simplifies the routing
tables and overall design of the network stack. They probably
need fewer sockets as you're unlikely to have several "network
applications" active simultaneously.

Etc.

Well, just for an experiment I may try that registry hack anyway

You'll never know if it is "working reliably" -- only if it is NOT! :
And, you'll never know if one of the updates that get installed next
Tuesday will break it.

It's like overclocking a CPU -- yeah, it *might* work (for a particular
chip, temperature, power supply voltage, application, etc.)... or, not.

If you want a faster CPU, *buy* a faster CPU, etc.

Unless, of course, you don't REALLY want it (i.e., are willing to have
a broken computer) but just want to "play".

On 5/13/2016 10:50 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/13/2016 12:39 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/13/2016 9:58 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/13/2016 11:14 AM, Don Y wrote:


snip
t!

Did have BeOS at one time.

I do have Plan 9 and several versions of OS/2 though

To be fair, there are lots of OS's out there. I picked on some of
the less well known -- avoiding the obvious ones like Solaris, FreeBSD,
OpenBSD, NetBSD, OS/X, MacOS, "Linux" (though Linux is just a kernel),
etc.

I have used or still have most of the above

The ones you listed previously , I assumed you were trying to stump me and you
did!

They're just different markets. (Or, failed products -- e.g., BeOS, Unixware,
Coherent)

Plan 9 and Inferno are more research OS's -- though I think both are used
in some real telecom products. You can, for example, run Inferno *in*
a web browser!

OpusV was a System V port to a NS32000 "coprocessor card" many decades
ago. At the time, probably the fastest UN*X you'd encounter on a PC
platform (it would even run in a 286 -- using the PC just as an
"I/O processor")

Jaluna is intended for embedded systems but not widely used
(too radical and too klunky of a build environment).

Amoeba and Mach-US (as well as Mach-Lites, Mach-UX, Poe, etc.)
are proof of concept OS's that try to introduce a new/different
way of doing things than traditional OS's. E.g., under Mach,
you could run all of these other OS's at the same time -- as
if they were the sole OS running on the machine. Amoeba
(and Mach) also introduce more versatile security models
(instead of the lame "Administrator/root vs. others" model).

For example, I can let a particular user append information
to a file (i.e., write -- but only at the end!) and deny him
the ability to overwrite existing information, delete the file
*or* read anything in the file -- including the stuff he
just wrote!

Or, I can let a user set turn a network interface on but never
off (once its been turned on). And, prevent yet another user
from ever typing a '7'! (WTF?) All the while, not interfering
with the actions of "other" users.

These things are simply not possible in conventional OS's.

[Imagine the things a user might want to be able to do a
unlock the front door, open the garage, alter irrigation
settings, check the temperature of the water heater, etc.]

On 05/13/2016 01:13 PM, Don Y wrote:

Etc.

Well, just for an experiment I may try that registry hack anyway

You'll never know if it is "working reliably" -- only if it is NOT! :
And, you'll never know if one of the updates that get installed next
Tuesday will break it.

It's like overclocking a CPU -- yeah, it *might* work (for a particular
chip, temperature, power supply voltage, application, etc.)... or, not.

If you want a faster CPU, *buy* a faster CPU, etc.

Unless, of course, you don't REALLY want it (i.e., are willing to have
a broken computer) but just want to "play".



Just recalled that I have XP installed in a virtual machine.

All I need do is copy the .vdi, then experiment

On 5/13/2016 11:45 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/13/2016 01:13 PM, Don Y wrote:

Etc.

Well, just for an experiment I may try that registry hack anyway

You'll never know if it is "working reliably" -- only if it is NOT! :
And, you'll never know if one of the updates that get installed next
Tuesday will break it.

It's like overclocking a CPU -- yeah, it *might* work (for a particular
chip, temperature, power supply voltage, application, etc.)... or, not.

If you want a faster CPU, *buy* a faster CPU, etc.

Unless, of course, you don't REALLY want it (i.e., are willing to have
a broken computer) but just want to "play".

Just recalled that I have XP installed in a virtual machine.

All I need do is copy the .vdi, then experiment

Again, all you will learn from this is if it DOESN'T work -- if
you can catch it doing something "wrong". You'll never be able
to say, definitively, "yes, this is the same as XP".

On 05/13/2016 01:56 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/13/2016 11:45 AM, philo wrote:


Again, all you will learn from this is if it DOESN'T work -- if
you can catch it doing something "wrong". You'll never be able
to say, definitively, "yes, this is the same as XP".



Here is what I just did:

I have XP in a virtual machine but never updated it.

Went to update it now for the first time and the process went very fast.

There were two preliminary updates needed and once they were applied it
found and started to fetch 131 more ASAP.

So my theory that MS was throttling updates for older systems is
wrong...looks like they are singling out Win7 for some reason.


I wonder why ?

On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 3:03:48 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/13/2016 01:56 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 5/13/2016 11:45 AM, philo wrote:


Again, all you will learn from this is if it DOESN'T work -- if
you can catch it doing something "wrong". You'll never be able
to say, definitively, "yes, this is the same as XP".



Here is what I just did:

I have XP in a virtual machine but never updated it.

Went to update it now for the first time and the process went very fast.

There were two preliminary updates needed and once they were applied it
found and started to fetch 131 more ASAP.

So my theory that MS was throttling updates for older systems is
wrong...looks like they are singling out Win7 for some reason.


I wonder why ?

I reported here my recent experience with Win 7. I restored a 4 year old
PC back to it's original software, so I needed to do all the Win 7 updates.
First it put in a new update agent. Then it did a bunch of updates that went
fine. Then it put in a new update agent and after that it just sat there
forever, checking for updates, not proceeding. I found lots of people in
various forums online, having the same problem, ie that after it put that
certain new update agent, everything stopped. I think some people reported
that if left alone for 2 days, it may have eventually proceeded. People
had contacted MSFT, no resolution. So, finally I thought to look and see
if there was a newer update agent. I found there were several, downloaded
one, installed it manually, and then updates proceeded normally again.
So, there is definitely something wrong between that one particular update
agent and the MSFT update servers. What else may be going on, IDK. But
it occurred to me that MSFT isn't too interested in fixing any of that
because it will help drive people to Win 10.

On 05/13/2016 02:59 PM, trader_4 wrote:



snip

I reported here my recent experience with Win 7. I restored a 4 year old
PC back to it's original software, so I needed to do all the Win 7 updates.
First it put in a new update agent. Then it did a bunch of updates that went
fine. Then it put in a new update agent and after that it just sat there
forever, checking for updates, not proceeding. I found lots of people in
various forums online, having the same problem, ie that after it put that
certain new update agent, everything stopped. I think some people reported
that if left alone for 2 days, it may have eventually proceeded. People
had contacted MSFT, no resolution. So, finally I thought to look and see
if there was a newer update agent. I found there were several, downloaded
one, installed it manually, and then updates proceeded normally again.
So, there is definitely something wrong between that one particular update
agent and the MSFT update servers. What else may be going on, IDK. But
it occurred to me that MSFT isn't too interested in fixing any of that
because it will help drive people to Win 10.




Believe me, I tried newer update agents and everything I could think of
to no avail. The best I could to is just leave the machine set to
auto-update, then let it sit overnight.

That usually did the trick but could take 8 - 12 hours to complete.


I really think MS is doing that purposely to "encourage" a move to Win10.

Possibly they just leave XP alone as it cannot be directly upgraded?


BTW: Since I had XP in a virtual machine and the installation is of
little value to me, I did try that previously mentioned registry hack
and got something like 46 more updates. Nothing seemed to have been
"screwed up" but I am not suggesting that others try it.

There are still browsers and virus checkers for XP...so it will probably
be around for a while yet.

On Fri, 13 May 2016 11:58:12 -0500, philo wrote:

Did have BeOS at one time.

I do have Plan 9 and several versions of OS/2 though


Though I mainly use Linux, I've got both XP and Win7 machines at my
disposal.

I never have been able to get any form of linux to do much of anything
other than to **** me off, but OS/2 was something I really liked back in
it's day, and at that time, it looked like it would replace Windows.
Although they claim differently, I think MS bought them out because they
did not want the competition. Probably the biggest failure in the
history of personal computers.

If OS/2 had succeeded, we'd probably all be using it now, especially
since MS began their attempts to force their latest spyware disasters
(Win 8 and 10) on us.

On 05/13/2016 03:27 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2016 11:58:12 -0500, philo wrote:

Did have BeOS at one time.

I do have Plan 9 and several versions of OS/2 though


Though I mainly use Linux, I've got both XP and Win7 machines at my
disposal.

I never have been able to get any form of linux to do much of anything
other than to **** me off, but OS/2 was something I really liked back in
it's day, and at that time, it looked like it would replace Windows.
Although they claim differently, I think MS bought them out because they
did not want the competition. Probably the biggest failure in the
history of personal computers.

If OS/2 had succeeded, we'd probably all be using it now, especially
since MS began their attempts to force their latest spyware disasters
(Win 8 and 10) on us.




I just loved OS/2


As to Linux, it's very easy now and works quite well.

I use it as my full time OS but still find Windows quite a necessity.

On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 5:13:21 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 05/13/2016 03:27 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2016 11:58:12 -0500, philo wrote:

Did have BeOS at one time.

I do have Plan 9 and several versions of OS/2 though

Though I mainly use Linux, I've got both XP and Win7 machines at my
disposal.

I never have been able to get any form of linux to do much of anything
other than to **** me off, but OS/2 was something I really liked back in
it's day, and at that time, it looked like it would replace Windows.
Although they claim differently, I think MS bought them out because they
did not want the competition. Probably the biggest failure in the
history of personal computers.

If OS/2 had succeeded, we'd probably all be using it now, especially
since MS began their attempts to force their latest spyware disasters
(Win 8 and 10) on us.

I just loved OS/2

As to Linux, it's very easy now and works quite well.

I use it as my full time OS but still find Windows quite a necessity.

I'm now in the habit of using the Chrome OS because my 11.6" Chromebook and bag are so easy to grab when I'm being whisked away to a medical facility. There's room in the bag for my wallet, keys, paperwork, thumbdrives, cellphone and charger. At home, I have XP, Vista and Win7 machines along with Linux boxes. When I was working, my customers were using Windows on their office computers and even POS,"Point Of Sale" systems. There were some systems I worked on that had Linux even some embedded versions. I had no customers who were using Apple computers or Chrome OS computers. Since the majority of customers are using Windows computers, it's necessary to be proficient in the use of Microsoft products. If I'm able to work again someday and everyone starts using Apple computers, I'll be out of luck. I really like Chrome but I don't know anyone else who's using it. At one time I was concerned that the Chrome OS was going away but it turns out that Google is not going to drop Chrome but the company has been working on merging Android and Chrome. I guess my little Chromebook is safe for now. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Chrome Monster

On Fri, 13 May 2016 09:14:13 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/13/2016 5:35 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 10:27 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 22:00:36 -0500, philo wrote:

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many years.

That only takes you up the ladder one step from guys like me with XP.

As to which OS I use...as long as it does the job, that's the bottom line.

I have just about every OS you can imagine at my fingertips.

BeOS? Unixware? Coherent UNIX? OpusV? Inferno? Jaluna? Amoeba? Mach-US?

Haw about the various versions of CPM? or the multi-user multi-tasking
OS9 ?(generally on Motorola 6809 and 68000 series systems)

Though I mainly use Linux, I've got both XP and Win7 machines at my disposal.
...but many many more...pretty much every thing between Win1 and Win10
inclusive...

and what the heck, a number of Mac's as well (both PPC and Intel)

On 5/13/2016 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2016 09:14:13 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/13/2016 5:35 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 10:27 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 22:00:36 -0500, philo wrote:

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many years.

That only takes you up the ladder one step from guys like me with XP.

As to which OS I use...as long as it does the job, that's the bottom line.

I have just about every OS you can imagine at my fingertips.

BeOS? Unixware? Coherent UNIX? OpusV? Inferno? Jaluna? Amoeba? Mach-US?

Haw about the various versions of CPM? or the multi-user multi-tasking
OS9 ?(generally on Motorola 6809 and 68000 series systems)

Don't run on PC's.

MP/M, ISIS-II, ZRDOS, ZDOS, VRTX, QNX, FreeDOS, MULTICS, TOPS-10, DG/UX,
AIX, ZCPR3, RTX11, UNIX, MINIX, XENIX, AmigaOS, NeXTSTEP, etc.

It's unfortunate that the one most people think about (Windows)
is probably the most boring...

On 05/13/2016 06:51 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:

I never have been able to get any form of linux to do much of anything
other than to **** me off, but OS/2 was something I really liked back in
it's day, and at that time, it looked like it would replace Windows.
Although they claim differently, I think MS bought them out because they
did not want the competition. Probably the biggest failure in the
history of personal computers.

If OS/2 had succeeded, we'd probably all be using it now, especially
since MS began their attempts to force their latest spyware disasters
(Win 8 and 10) on us.

I just loved OS/2

As to Linux, it's very easy now and works quite well.

I use it as my full time OS but still find Windows quite a necessity.

I'm now in the habit of using the Chrome OS because my 11.6" Chromebook and bag are so easy to grab when I'm being whisked away to a medical facility. There's room in the bag for my wallet, keys, paperwork, thumbdrives, cellphone and charger. At home, I have XP, Vista and Win7 machines along with Linux boxes. When I was working, my customers were using Windows on their office computers and even POS,"Point Of Sale" systems. There were some systems I worked on that had Linux even some embedded versions. I had no customers who were using Apple computers or Chrome OS computers. Since the majority of customers are using Windows computers, it's necessary to be proficient in the use of Microsoft products. If I'm able to work again someday and everyone starts using Apple computers, I'll be out of luck. I really like Chrome but I don't know anyone else who's using it. At one time I was concerned that the Chrome OS was going away but it turns out that Google is not going to drop Chrome but th
e company has been working on merging Android and Chrome. I guess my little Chromebook is safe for now. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Chrome Monster




Don't know why, but I never used Chrome OS.

Right now I have a fairly efficient setup so have quit most of my
experimenting...but will not likely quit entirely.

On 05/13/2016 07:30 PM, wrote:
? Coherent UNIX? OpusV? Inferno? Jaluna? Amoeba? Mach-US?

Haw about the various versions of CPM? or the multi-user multi-tasking
OS9 ?(generally on Motorola 6809 and 68000 series systems)


I do have a Kaypro that works the last time I had it on, so did get to
fool with CP/M a bit.

Incredibly more advanced than DOS

Though I mainly use Linux, I've got both XP and Win7 machines at my disposal.
...but many many more...pretty much every thing between Win1 and Win10
inclusive...

and what the heck, a number of Mac's as well (both PPC and Intel)

On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 7:30:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2016 09:14:13 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/13/2016 5:35 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 10:27 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 22:00:36 -0500, philo wrote:

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many years.

That only takes you up the ladder one step from guys like me with XP.

As to which OS I use...as long as it does the job, that's the bottom line.

I have just about every OS you can imagine at my fingertips.

BeOS? Unixware? Coherent UNIX? OpusV? Inferno? Jaluna? Amoeba? Mach-US?

Haw about the various versions of CPM? or the multi-user multi-tasking
OS9 ?(generally on Motorola 6809 and 68000 series systems)

Though I mainly use Linux, I've got both XP and Win7 machines at my disposal.
...but many many more...pretty much every thing between Win1 and Win10
inclusive...

and what the heck, a number of Mac's as well (both PPC and Intel)

Years ago, I had a "Luggable" computer. It was the size of a CRT oscilloscope and it had both a Z80 and 8088 CPU's and would run both DOS and CP/M. I lost the darn thing in a move and wish I still had it along with some of my other interesting older computers that I was collecting. I found a page on it. It was a Seequa Chameleon. ^_^

http://old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=107

[8~{} Uncle Lizard Monster

On 05/13/2016 09:06 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 7:30:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2016 09:14:13 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/13/2016 5:35 AM, philo wrote:
On 05/12/2016 10:27 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 22:00:36 -0500, philo wrote:

When I do chose to use Windows, I'll be sticking with Win7 for many years.

That only takes you up the ladder one step from guys like me with XP.

As to which OS I use...as long as it does the job, that's the bottom line.

I have just about every OS you can imagine at my fingertips.

BeOS? Unixware? Coherent UNIX? OpusV? Inferno? Jaluna? Amoeba? Mach-US?

Haw about the various versions of CPM? or the multi-user multi-tasking
OS9 ?(generally on Motorola 6809 and 68000 series systems)

Though I mainly use Linux, I've got both XP and Win7 machines at my disposal.
...but many many more...pretty much every thing between Win1 and Win10
inclusive...

and what the heck, a number of Mac's as well (both PPC and Intel)

Years ago, I had a "Luggable" computer. It was the size of a CRT oscilloscope and it had both a Z80 and 8088 CPU's and would run both DOS and CP/M. I lost the darn thing in a move and wish I still had it along with some of my other interesting older computers that I was collecting. I found a page on it. It was a Seequa Chameleon. ^_^

http://old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=107

[8~{} Uncle Lizard Monster




Wow, never heard of that one. It would be a real collector's item.


As to the Z80, the company I worked for designed a Z80 based control
module somewhere in the late 70's


The control was still in production as late as 2002 or so...what the
heck...it worked!

On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 8:49:12 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 05/13/2016 06:51 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:

I never have been able to get any form of linux to do much of anything
other than to **** me off, but OS/2 was something I really liked back in
it's day, and at that time, it looked like it would replace Windows.
Although they claim differently, I think MS bought them out because they
did not want the competition. Probably the biggest failure in the
history of personal computers.

If OS/2 had succeeded, we'd probably all be using it now, especially
since MS began their attempts to force their latest spyware disasters
(Win 8 and 10) on us.

I just loved OS/2

As to Linux, it's very easy now and works quite well.

I use it as my full time OS but still find Windows quite a necessity.

I'm now in the habit of using the Chrome OS because my 11.6" Chromebook and bag are so easy to grab when I'm being whisked away to a medical facility. There's room in the bag for my wallet, keys, paperwork, thumbdrives, cellphone and charger. At home, I have XP, Vista and Win7 machines along with Linux boxes. When I was working, my customers were using Windows on their office computers and even POS,"Point Of Sale" systems. There were some systems I worked on that had Linux even some embedded versions. I had no customers who were using Apple computers or Chrome OS computers. Since the majority of customers are using Windows computers, it's necessary to be proficient in the use of Microsoft products. If I'm able to work again someday and everyone starts using Apple computers, I'll be out of luck. I really like Chrome but I don't know anyone else who's using it. At one time I was concerned that the Chrome OS was going away but it turns out that Google is not going to drop Chrome but th
e company has been working on merging Android and Chrome. I guess my little Chromebook is safe for now. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Chrome Monster

Don't know why, but I never used Chrome OS.

Right now I have a fairly efficient setup so have quit most of my
experimenting...but will not likely quit entirely.

Well Phil, if you ever have a chance to pick up a refurbished Chromebook, you should give it a try. I have a little Acer C710-2833 which is 3 years old and only weighs about 3 lbs. Since I do all my banking and bill paying online, I can't be without a computer. I bought the Amazon Basics 11.6" laptop bag and added 2gb memory to the little computer and it really helped the performance. It is a great "Grab and go computer" because you can sync all your information on Google Drive across your computers so you won't be without your important information. I'm glad I bought before I got sick again and had it on hand with all my important stuff in the bag with it before I took the ambulance ride. ^_^

https://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-ace...3-or-c710-2856

[8~{} Uncle Lap Monster