The other day at a traffic light, a convertible passed in front of me
with some gizmo atop the windshield, attached to the frame. A
spoiler is the closest name I can think of.

Googling doesn't show me anything close. Has anyone here seen such a
thing? Maybe spoiler is the wrong word and that's why I can't find
it??


Maybe I want one.

Feel free to skip historical narrative:
With my '65 and '67 Catalinas, I could open the vent windows so far
that they blew air into the passenger compartment, and I could turn
the sun visors up and forward so that they did the same thing. And
both had big fresh air vents to the left of driver ankles and to the
right of passenger ankles, even the '67 that had factory air. IOW, I
could get a lot more fresh air than I can now, even with the top down.
So maybe I want this thing.

Sunday, I was 90 miles west of here near some little town and as
usual, I bought the local newspaper. It had a front page story about
a congressional primary not yet settled, maybe in nearyby Pa. I left
the advertising section behind and put the rest in the back seat, left
side. I was going only 20 or 30 for the next hour but the paper was
gone. OTOH, the Wash. Post underneath it was still there. Usually if
something tries to blow out of the car, especially a full size piece
of newsprint, I see it in the rear view mirror. Today I found the
whole section intact stuffed near the rear floor left side.

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 10:12:15 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
The other day at a traffic light, a convertible passed in front of me
with some gizmo atop the windshield, attached to the frame. A
spoiler is the closest name I can think of.

I visor? They were on cars in the '40s and '50 at least. I know you're old enough to remember if you're capable!

On Mon, 09 May 2016 23:12:09 -0400, Micky
wrote:

The other day at a traffic light, a convertible passed in front of me
with some gizmo atop the windshield, attached to the frame. A
spoiler is the closest name I can think of.

Googling doesn't show me anything close. Has anyone here seen such a
thing? Maybe spoiler is the wrong word and that's why I can't find
it??


Maybe I want one.

Wind deflector - or "hair saver" Most that fit on the windshield are
uselessm - the ones behind the headrest work a whole lot better.

Feel free to skip historical narrative:
With my '65 and '67 Catalinas, I could open the vent windows so far
that they blew air into the passenger compartment, and I could turn
the sun visors up and forward so that they did the same thing. And
both had big fresh air vents to the left of driver ankles and to the
right of passenger ankles, even the '67 that had factory air. IOW, I
could get a lot more fresh air than I can now, even with the top down.
So maybe I want this thing.

Sunday, I was 90 miles west of here near some little town and as
usual, I bought the local newspaper. It had a front page story about
a congressional primary not yet settled, maybe in nearyby Pa. I left
the advertising section behind and put the rest in the back seat, left
side. I was going only 20 or 30 for the next hour but the paper was
gone. OTOH, the Wash. Post underneath it was still there. Usually if
something tries to blow out of the car, especially a full size piece
of newsprint, I see it in the rear view mirror. Today I found the
whole section intact stuffed near the rear floor left side.

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 10:33:58 PM UTC-5, bob_villain wrote:
On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 10:12:15 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
The other day at a traffic light, a convertible passed in front of me
with some gizmo atop the windshield, attached to the frame. A
spoiler is the closest name I can think of.

I visor? They were on cars in the '40s and '50 at least. I know you're old enough to remember if you're capable!

http://tinyurl.com/j4xe8tj

On Mon, 09 May 2016 23:34:59 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 09 May 2016 23:12:09 -0400, Micky
wrote:

The other day at a traffic light, a convertible passed in front of me
with some gizmo atop the windshield, attached to the frame. A
spoiler is the closest name I can think of.

Googling doesn't show me anything close. Has anyone here seen such a
thing? Maybe spoiler is the wrong word and that's why I can't find
it??


Maybe I want one.

Wind deflector - or "hair saver" Most that fit on the windshield are
uselessm - the ones behind the headrest work a whole lot better.

Thanks. I'll remember that. I still couldn't find one mounted above
the windshield, but that's okay, at least I gave it a good shot and
I've lost interest.

At speeds over 50 I often put up the windows, and I rarely go over 65,
too much noise.

Feel free to skip historical narrative:
With my '65 and '67 Catalinas, I could open the vent windows so far
that they blew air into the passenger compartment, and I could turn
the sun visors up and forward so that they did the same thing. And
both had big fresh air vents to the left of driver ankles and to the
right of passenger ankles, even the '67 that had factory air. IOW, I
could get a lot more fresh air than I can now, even with the top down.
So maybe I want this thing.

On Mon, 09 May 2016 22:12:09 -0500, Micky
wrote:

The other day at a traffic light, a convertible passed in front of me
with some gizmo atop the windshield, attached to the frame. A
spoiler is the closest name I can think of.

Googling doesn't show me anything close. Has anyone here seen such a
thing? Maybe spoiler is the wrong word and that's why I can't find
it??


Maybe I want one.

My parents had one on their Plymouth. It was a two door and not
a convertible. They called it something like sunscreen, maybe sun visor.

--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Tue, 10 May 2016 05:18:45 -0500, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 May 2016 22:12:09 -0500, Micky
wrote:

The other day at a traffic light, a convertible passed in front of me
with some gizmo atop the windshield, attached to the frame. A
spoiler is the closest name I can think of.

Googling doesn't show me anything close. Has anyone here seen such a
thing? Maybe spoiler is the wrong word and that's why I can't find
it??


Maybe I want one.

My parents had one on their Plymouth. It was a two door and not
a convertible. They called it something like sunscreen, maybe sun visor.

Sort of like an awning, right? To keep the sun out of their eyes
without obstructing the view in front of the driver, like sun visors
do. I remember those. They were a good idea, just like awnings on
houses keep the sun out while not interfering with the view or the
breeze, like shades do.

But this was diferent. It went up from the windshield frame, not
forward (I should have said that.) and it was like the curved wing of
a balsa wood toy glider, but shiny metal, on legs about 2 inches above
the windshield.

On 5/10/2016 3:09 AM, Micky wrote:


At speeds over 50 I often put up the windows, and I rarely go over 65,
too much noise.


I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 07:13:28 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/10/2016 3:09 AM, Micky wrote:


At speeds over 50 I often put up the windows, and I rarely go over 65,
too much noise.


I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

Not interested.

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 7:13:30 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/10/2016 3:09 AM, Micky wrote:


At speeds over 50 I often put up the windows, and I rarely go over 65,
too much noise.


I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

I was watching a commercial for the 2016 Buick Cascada. The top can be
raised or lowered at speeds up to 31 MPH. Having never owned a convertible,
this leads me to ask:

Is 31 MPH an slight improvement over other convertibles or a major improvement?
In other words, is there a speed at which other convertible tops can be
raised/lowered or has it always been required that the vehicle be stopped?

Per Ed Pawlowski:
I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

Does anybody else think that convertibles lost a lot of their attraction
when steel-belted radial tires came into wide use?.... The noise...
--
Pete Cresswell

On 5/10/2016 7:53 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 7:13:30 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/10/2016 3:09 AM, Micky wrote:



[snip]

I was watching a commercial for the 2016 Buick Cascada. The top can be
raised or lowered at speeds up to 31 MPH. Having never owned a convertible,
this leads me to ask:

Is 31 MPH an slight improvement over other convertibles or a major improvement?
In other words, is there a speed at which other convertible tops can be
raised/lowered or has it always been required that the vehicle be stopped?

Having owned a couple of convertibles in the past, I would chalk this
one up to "Whatever!"

My first convertible was a Chrysler LeBaron with all the toys, leather,
etc. I was concerned about how long it would take to raise the top in
the event of a sudden rainstorm.

My not so scientific testing revealed that

1) there are very, VERY few times you'll be out driving around with the
top down and encounter an instant dump of rain.

2) for ****s and giggles (and to satisfy SWMBO) I asked my wife to pick
a time of her choosing when we were out driving around with the top down
to shout out "Rain!" at which point I would immediately act as if a
torrential downpour had struck and raise the top as quickly as I could.
At about 60mph I had the car stopped on the side of the road AND the top
was up but not latched in about 30 seconds. At about 30mph I started
raising the top and by the time it was up high enough to act as a sail
and catch wind, my speed was probably down to about 5-8mph.

So who cares if you can raise it at 31mph or 20 or 50. Stop the damn
car, raise the top and remember that just because you CAN do something,
doesn't mean that you should. If your speed's too high or the engineers
are wrong, you're going to torque something and lose (if you had it
before) a tight seal. Convertibles are very finicky as to fit and if
everything is not "just right" most of them will whistle and/or leak
like a sieve in the car wash or a driving rain storm.

Practical they are not. Fun. . . Yep!

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 9:11:14 AM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Pawlowski:
I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

Does anybody else think that convertibles lost a lot of their attraction
when steel-belted radial tires came into wide use?.... The noise...
--
Pete Cresswell

I'd blame more on the expense of the feature vs. the limited usage time, as well as the practicality. As the market appeal for SUV's continues to grow,
the appeal of the convertible goes in the opposite direction.

Factor in the growing markets in India and China, where the concept of
"open air" brings up images of gas masks as opposed to rolling country roads,
and you can imagine the appeal dropping even further.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...n-freedom-dims

On 05/10/2016 07:24 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
2) for ****s and giggles (and to satisfy SWMBO) I asked my wife to pick
a time of her choosing when we were out driving around with the top down
to shout out "Rain!" at which point I would immediately act as if a
torrential downpour had struck and raise the top as quickly as I could.
At about 60mph I had the car stopped on the side of the road AND the top
was up but not latched in about 30 seconds. At about 30mph I started
raising the top and by the time it was up high enough to act as a sail
and catch wind, my speed was probably down to about 5-8mph.

My first convertible was an Austin Healey Sprite. When it started to
rain, you stopped and got the windows, frame, and top out of the boot.
The windows were plexiglass sliding affairs held to the doors by two
knurled knobs. The you put the two halves of the frame together, and
inserted it into the socked behind the door. Next you spread the canvas
top over the frame and snapped it to the pins over the windshield and
around the rear perimeter. I got wet a lot. Hell, I got wet even if the
top was already up.

On 05/10/2016 07:11 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Pawlowski:
I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.
Does anybody else think that convertibles lost a lot of their attraction
when steel-belted radial tires came into wide use?.... The noise...
--

The noise? After you've spent some time going down the road at 80 on a
650cc single cylinder bike with DOT legal knobbies, noise is relative.
Even with the car when I take the studs off it becomes as quiet as a
church. Sort of.

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 9:58:23 AM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 05/10/2016 07:24 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
2) for ****s and giggles (and to satisfy SWMBO) I asked my wife to pick
a time of her choosing when we were out driving around with the top down
to shout out "Rain!" at which point I would immediately act as if a
torrential downpour had struck and raise the top as quickly as I could.
At about 60mph I had the car stopped on the side of the road AND the top
was up but not latched in about 30 seconds. At about 30mph I started
raising the top and by the time it was up high enough to act as a sail
and catch wind, my speed was probably down to about 5-8mph.

My first convertible was an Austin Healey Sprite. When it started to
rain, you stopped and got the windows, frame, and top out of the boot.
The windows were plexiglass sliding affairs held to the doors by two
knurled knobs. The you put the two halves of the frame together, and
inserted it into the socked behind the door. Next you spread the canvas
top over the frame and snapped it to the pins over the windshield and
around the rear perimeter. I got wet a lot. Hell, I got wet even if the
top was already up.

I had an aftermarket sunroof installed in a car. It flipped up or came out
completely. One hot summer day I had it laying in the back seat while we
went into a bar for some beverages. A dark, noisy bar. I never noticed that
one of those summertime torrential downpours had come through while we were
inside.

There was standing water on the seats and floor. The ride home really sucked.

Of course, the next few days were hot, humid and rainy so I couldn't keep
the car open to dry out. It really began to smell. Fortunately what followed
next was a few days of nice weather. I borrowed a bunch of fans and set them
up in my driveway, eventually drying the car out.

On 5/10/2016 8:59 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/10/2016 07:24 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
2) for ****s and giggles (and to satisfy SWMBO) I asked my wife to pick
a time of her choosing when we were out driving around with the top down
to shout out "Rain!" at which point I would immediately act as if a
torrential downpour had struck and raise the top as quickly as I could.
At about 60mph I had the car stopped on the side of the road AND the top
was up but not latched in about 30 seconds. At about 30mph I started
raising the top and by the time it was up high enough to act as a sail
and catch wind, my speed was probably down to about 5-8mph.

My first convertible was an Austin Healey Sprite. When it started to
rain, you stopped and got the windows, frame, and top out of the boot.
The windows were plexiglass sliding affairs held to the doors by two
knurled knobs. The you put the two halves of the frame together, and
inserted it into the socked behind the door. Next you spread the canvas
top over the frame and snapped it to the pins over the windshield and
around the rear perimeter. I got wet a lot. Hell, I got wet even if the
top was already up.

We've come a long way, baby! LOL! Think of the guys and gals with the
Jeeps with their canvas tops. PITA to go through each time you want
open air cruising. My current Corvette is a coupe with the removable
solid or tinted top. I can carry either in the back but if we're
traveling then luggage capacity is reduced to about what it was with my
C-4 convertible (can we say overnight duffel broken out and crammed into
nooks and crannies?). I can remove/replace it single-handed but we
rarely do so.

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 7:58:42 AM UTC-7, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I had an aftermarket sunroof installed in a car. It flipped up or came out
completely. One hot summer day I had it laying in the back seat while we
went into a bar for some beverages. A dark, noisy bar. I never noticed that
one of those summertime torrential downpours had come through while we were
inside.

There was standing water on the seats and floor. The ride home really sucked.

Of course, the next few days were hot, humid and rainy so I couldn't keep
the car open to dry out. It really began to smell. Fortunately what followed
next was a few days of nice weather. I borrowed a bunch of fans and set them
up in my driveway, eventually drying the car out.

Worked on one car, a Dodge 600 ES convertible with a glass rear window that shattered cause the fool had a set of golf clubs in the back seat. Left it in the rain for months. Eventually the carpets actually grew little mushrooms

On Tue, 10 May 2016 05:18:45 -0500, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

On Mon, 09 May 2016 22:12:09 -0500, Micky
wrote:

The other day at a traffic light, a convertible passed in front of me
with some gizmo atop the windshield, attached to the frame. A
spoiler is the closest name I can think of.

Googling doesn't show me anything close. Has anyone here seen such a
thing? Maybe spoiler is the wrong word and that's why I can't find
it??


Maybe I want one.

My parents had one on their Plymouth. It was a two door and not
a convertible. They called it something like sunscreen, maybe sun visor.
If it was an "old" convertible it could very well have been a sun
visor - by old I meam 40's ish

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 11:11:23 AM UTC-4, Shade Tree Guy wrote:
On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 7:58:42 AM UTC-7, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I had an aftermarket sunroof installed in a car. It flipped up or came out
completely. One hot summer day I had it laying in the back seat while we
went into a bar for some beverages. A dark, noisy bar. I never noticed that
one of those summertime torrential downpours had come through while we were
inside.

There was standing water on the seats and floor. The ride home really sucked.

Of course, the next few days were hot, humid and rainy so I couldn't keep
the car open to dry out. It really began to smell. Fortunately what followed
next was a few days of nice weather. I borrowed a bunch of fans and set them
up in my driveway, eventually drying the car out.

Worked on one car, a Dodge 600 ES convertible with a glass rear window that shattered cause the fool had a set of golf clubs in the back seat. Left it in the rain for months. Eventually the carpets actually grew little mushrooms

SWMBO's Honda Element has rubber floors. Extremely easy to keep clean, but
ironically, she wanted a carpet mat for the driver's area.

Actually, it makes sense. When the snow/salt would melt off of her boots,
it would puddle under her feet on the rubber floor. The carpet mat absorbs
the mess.

On the flip side, the dog hates the rubber floor. The material was made to be
slippery (almost feels oily, but it's not) so the dog can't get a grip when
jumping in or out.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 06:43:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 9:11:14 AM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Pawlowski:
I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

Does anybody else think that convertibles lost a lot of their attraction
when steel-belted radial tires came into wide use?.... The noise...

I don't think that. I never noticed any increase in noise, and I
don't think I've ever heard tire noise.
--
Pete Cresswell

I'd blame more on the expense of the feature

But they'll pay for other things.

vs. the limited usage time,

I have my top down 6 to 7 months a year in Baltimore, and when I
lived in NYC and only drove on the weekends mostly it seemed there was
one weekend day every month in the winter that it was warm enough to
put the top down.

as well as the practicality. As the market appeal for SUV's continues to grow,
the appeal of the convertible goes in the opposite direction.

Now that I don't understand at all. What does one have to do with the
other?

Factor in the growing markets in India and China, where the concept of
"open air" brings up images of gas masks as opposed to rolling country roads,
and you can imagine the appeal dropping even further.

They hadn't driven convertibles since they had horse and buggies or
rickshaws. It's not an increasing market there, but I don't see how
it can be declining.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...n-freedom-dims

I was never interested in the "Image of Fun and Freedom" but in actual
fun and freedom, and that hasn't diminished. When I was working,
the highlight of many spring, summer, fall days was the drive home.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 05:53:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 7:13:30 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/10/2016 3:09 AM, Micky wrote:


At speeds over 50 I often put up the windows, and I rarely go over 65,
too much noise.


I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

I was watching a commercial for the 2016 Buick Cascada. The top can be
raised or lowered at speeds up to 31 MPH.

That's pretty fast.

Having never owned a convertible,
this leads me to ask:

Is 31 MPH an slight improvement over other convertibles or a major improvement?
In other words, is there a speed at which other convertible tops can be
raised/lowered or has it always been required that the vehicle be stopped?

No convertible that I know of had any limit on speed until I got this
2000 Toyota Solara. Its limit was about 2 or 3 mph and it was an
enormous nuisance. I bought the shop manual and the convertible
supplement, but the relay was shown only vaguely. I asked dealers
where it was and two of them asked their mechanic but no one knew. I
was also looking behind the back seat and under the fuzzy walls of the
trunk and I eventually found it, behind the seat but accessible from
the trunk.

I could barely reach it and I couldn't fit in the trunk to get closer.
I could barely see it while I reached for it, but I did my best to cut
just the right wire, and I cut it, and now there is no speed limit on
putting it up and down.

I get stuck in the rain less than every 10 years, but I don't like
waiting when I'm going out to put the top down so I unlatch it, then
drive off while lowering it. Then when I get home, I start putting
the top up when I'm about 200 feet away from parking. Not driving
more than 15 or 20 mph either time, I think. I'll check.

I was afraid to raise or lower the top while moving for the first 10
years, but that ended 40 years ago, and never had a problem.


** I mostly know the '65 and '67 Pontiac, the '73 Buick, and the '84,
'88, and '95 Lebaron.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:20:25 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 06:43:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 9:11:14 AM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Pawlowski:
I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

Does anybody else think that convertibles lost a lot of their attraction
when steel-belted radial tires came into wide use?.... The noise...

I don't think that. I never noticed any increase in noise, and I
don't think I've ever heard tire noise.
--
Pete Cresswell

I'd blame more on the expense of the feature

But they'll pay for other things.

vs. the limited usage time,

I have my top down 6 to 7 months a year in Baltimore, and when I
lived in NYC and only drove on the weekends mostly it seemed there was
one weekend day every month in the winter that it was warm enough to
put the top down.

as well as the practicality. As the market appeal for SUV's continues to grow,
the appeal of the convertible goes in the opposite direction.

Now that I don't understand at all. What does one have to do with the
other?

Factor in the growing markets in India and China, where the concept of
"open air" brings up images of gas masks as opposed to rolling country roads,
and you can imagine the appeal dropping even further.

They hadn't driven convertibles since they had horse and buggies or
rickshaws. It's not an increasing market there, but I don't see how
it can be declining.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...n-freedom-dims

I was never interested in the "Image of Fun and Freedom" but in actual
fun and freedom, and that hasn't diminished. When I was working,
the highlight of many spring, summer, fall days was the drive home.
I'm looking forward to baysitting the TD again this summer. (a
convertible with no top - and only a pair of "brooklands" wind
screens). When it looks like rain it sits with the toneau cover on.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:33:00 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 05:53:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 7:13:30 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/10/2016 3:09 AM, Micky wrote:


At speeds over 50 I often put up the windows, and I rarely go over 65,
too much noise.


I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

I was watching a commercial for the 2016 Buick Cascada. The top can be
raised or lowered at speeds up to 31 MPH.

That's pretty fast.

Having never owned a convertible,
this leads me to ask:

Is 31 MPH an slight improvement over other convertibles or a major improvement?
In other words, is there a speed at which other convertible tops can be
raised/lowered or has it always been required that the vehicle be stopped?

No convertible that I know of had any limit on speed until I got this
2000 Toyota Solara. Its limit was about 2 or 3 mph and it was an
enormous nuisance. I bought the shop manual and the convertible
supplement, but the relay was shown only vaguely. I asked dealers
where it was and two of them asked their mechanic but no one knew. I
was also looking behind the back seat and under the fuzzy walls of the
trunk and I eventually found it, behind the seat but accessible from
the trunk.

I could barely reach it and I couldn't fit in the trunk to get closer.
I could barely see it while I reached for it, but I did my best to cut
just the right wire, and I cut it, and now there is no speed limit on
putting it up and down.

I get stuck in the rain less than every 10 years, but I don't like
waiting when I'm going out to put the top down so I unlatch it, then
drive off while lowering it. Then when I get home, I start putting
the top up when I'm about 200 feet away from parking. Not driving
more than 15 or 20 mph either time, I think. I'll check.

I was afraid to raise or lower the top while moving for the first 10
years, but that ended 40 years ago, and never had a problem.


** I mostly know the '65 and '67 Pontiac, the '73 Buick, and the '84,
'88, and '95 Lebaron.
Putting the top up (or down) with the car at any speed at all is NOT
a good idea. A stiff crosswind will show you why in a hurry - and
lighten your wallet getting it repaired.

My personal experience with retractible tops is limited to a 65
Pontiac Parisienne MG B, Jeep CJ and a Sunbeam Alpine - but I've had
to work on quite a number of others - both power and otherwize

On Tue, 10 May 2016 10:49:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 11:11:23 AM UTC-4, Shade Tree Guy wrote:
On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 7:58:42 AM UTC-7, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I had an aftermarket sunroof installed in a car. It flipped up or came out
completely. One hot summer day I had it laying in the back seat while we
went into a bar for some beverages. A dark, noisy bar. I never noticed that
one of those summertime torrential downpours had come through while we were
inside.

There was standing water on the seats and floor. The ride home really sucked.

Of course, the next few days were hot, humid and rainy so I couldn't keep
the car open to dry out. It really began to smell. Fortunately what followed

I rented a LeBaron in Tampa that smelled bad, somewhat. I guess
someone got it wet and then they put up the top and closed the windows
when it was returned. Or it's so humid there it won't dry even with
the windows open.

next was a few days of nice weather. I borrowed a bunch of fans and set them
up in my driveway, eventually drying the car out.

I was stopped for speeding once in Chicago. I'm sure I was speeding
and it probably didn't help that I had my shirt off, top down, and
maybe long hair blowing in the breeze.

Because I had an out-of-state license and didn't have $25 for bond,
they put me in jail. I asked if I could go out and put the top up but
I should have done that before I walked into the police station they
said. (I remembered to do this when I was arrested 5 years ago) (For
20 years after this, I carried $50 in travelers checks in the car all
the time, just in case.)

I actually had a girlfriend, but her job often took her out of her
office. I'm lucky I remembered the name of her girlfriend, whom I
knew a little, and that she was in the office, and she said she'd come
at the end of the work day, about 3 hours. Everything was fine
until about 5:40, then through the bars of my cell I could see a
window and the sky darkened as dark as I've ever seen, and 5 minutes
before i was bailed out, it rained as hard as I'd ever seen it.

When I got to the car, there was an inch or two of water on the back
seat floor, condensation behind the instrument panel, all the maps on
the front seat were wet, and the cardboard glove box was wavy.

But everything dried out with no trouble, except the glove box was
never perfect after that. So after that, I stopped worrying if the
car got wet inside.

It turned out she was there before the rain, but the cops kept
assuming a nicely dressed woman was there to meet a cop and not to
bail out a criminal. At least they pretended to.

Worked on one car, a Dodge 600 ES convertible with a glass rear window that shattered cause the fool had a set of golf clubs in the back seat. Left it in the rain for months. Eventually the carpets actually grew little mushrooms

I went away for 7 weeks one summer and left the car at my mother's. I
guess she started the engine a few times and she noticed a mushroom
growing on the rear floor, near the door. But she left it because she
thought it was interesting and that I should see it. It was about an
inch across. It's good that the carpets are synthetic or there
would be more flora.

SWMBO's Honda Element has rubber floors. Extremely easy to keep clean, but
ironically, she wanted a carpet mat for the driver's area.

Actually, it makes sense. When the snow/salt would melt off of her boots,
it would puddle under her feet on the rubber floor. The carpet mat absorbs
the mess.

Carpet is nice when you have your shoes and socks off, too.

On the flip side, the dog hates the rubber floor. The material was made to be
slippery (almost feels oily, but it's not) so the dog can't get a grip when
jumping in or out.

I see scenes like that on dog videos, mostly with hardwood floors.
Poor little things.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:50:13 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:33:00 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 05:53:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 7:13:30 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/10/2016 3:09 AM, Micky wrote:


At speeds over 50 I often put up the windows, and I rarely go over 65,
too much noise.


I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

I was watching a commercial for the 2016 Buick Cascada. The top can be
raised or lowered at speeds up to 31 MPH.

That's pretty fast.

Having never owned a convertible,
this leads me to ask:

Is 31 MPH an slight improvement over other convertibles or a major improvement?
In other words, is there a speed at which other convertible tops can be
raised/lowered or has it always been required that the vehicle be stopped?

No convertible that I know of had any limit on speed until I got this
2000 Toyota Solara. Its limit was about 2 or 3 mph and it was an
enormous nuisance. I bought the shop manual and the convertible
supplement, but the relay was shown only vaguely. I asked dealers
where it was and two of them asked their mechanic but no one knew. I
was also looking behind the back seat and under the fuzzy walls of the
trunk and I eventually found it, behind the seat but accessible from
the trunk.

I could barely reach it and I couldn't fit in the trunk to get closer.
I could barely see it while I reached for it, but I did my best to cut
just the right wire, and I cut it, and now there is no speed limit on
putting it up and down.

I get stuck in the rain less than every 10 years, but I don't like
waiting when I'm going out to put the top down so I unlatch it, then
drive off while lowering it. Then when I get home, I start putting
the top up when I'm about 200 feet away from parking. Not driving
more than 15 or 20 mph either time, I think. I'll check.

I was afraid to raise or lower the top while moving for the first 10
years, but that ended 40 years ago, and never had a problem.


** I mostly know the '65 and '67 Pontiac, the '73 Buick, and the '84,
'88, and '95 Lebaron.

Putting the top up (or down) with the car at any speed at all is NOT
a good idea. A stiff crosswind will show you why in a hurry - and
lighten your wallet getting it repaired.

Maybe I'm only going 10mph. I'll check in a few minutes if I
remember, but it's not enough to fully bulge out the fabric let alone
bend anything. I've been doing this for 40 years, iow 1000's of
times, and 6 cars, so I'm sure.

My personal experience with retractible tops is limited to a 65
Pontiac Parisienne MG B, Jeep CJ and a Sunbeam Alpine - but I've had
to work on quite a number of others - both power and otherwize

But other than your own, you only see the broken cars.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:44:31 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:20:25 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 06:43:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 9:11:14 AM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Pawlowski:
I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

Does anybody else think that convertibles lost a lot of their attraction
when steel-belted radial tires came into wide use?.... The noise...

I don't think that. I never noticed any increase in noise, and I
don't think I've ever heard tire noise.
--
Pete Cresswell

I'd blame more on the expense of the feature

But they'll pay for other things.

vs. the limited usage time,

I have my top down 6 to 7 months a year in Baltimore, and when I
lived in NYC and only drove on the weekends mostly it seemed there was
one weekend day every month in the winter that it was warm enough to
put the top down.

as well as the practicality. As the market appeal for SUV's continues to grow,
the appeal of the convertible goes in the opposite direction.

Now that I don't understand at all. What does one have to do with the
other?

Factor in the growing markets in India and China, where the concept of
"open air" brings up images of gas masks as opposed to rolling country roads,
and you can imagine the appeal dropping even further.

They hadn't driven convertibles since they had horse and buggies or
rickshaws. It's not an increasing market there, but I don't see how
it can be declining.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...n-freedom-dims

I was never interested in the "Image of Fun and Freedom" but in actual
fun and freedom, and that hasn't diminished. When I was working,
the highlight of many spring, summer, fall days was the drive home.

I'm looking forward to baysitting the TD again this summer. (a
convertible with no top - and only a pair of "brooklands" wind
screens). When it looks like rain it sits with the toneau cover on.

I would like one of those.

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 5:20:36 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2016 06:43:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 9:11:14 AM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Pawlowski:
I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

Does anybody else think that convertibles lost a lot of their attraction
when steel-belted radial tires came into wide use?.... The noise...

I don't think that. I never noticed any increase in noise, and I
don't think I've ever heard tire noise.
--
Pete Cresswell

I'd blame more on the expense of the feature

But they'll pay for other things.

Of course. Unless the funds for a vehicle are unlimited, one has to
choose which features to pay for. The numbers show that "convertible"
is not a feature that as many people as before are opting to pay for.


vs. the limited usage time,

I have my top down 6 to 7 months a year in Baltimore, and when I
lived in NYC and only drove on the weekends mostly it seemed there was
one weekend day every month in the winter that it was warm enough to
put the top down.

as well as the practicality. As the market appeal for SUV's continues to grow,
the appeal of the convertible goes in the opposite direction.

Now that I don't understand at all. What does one have to do with the
other?

It's called math. More people are choosing an SUV over a convertible.
What's not to understand?


Factor in the growing markets in India and China, where the concept of
"open air" brings up images of gas masks as opposed to rolling country roads,
and you can imagine the appeal dropping even further.

They hadn't driven convertibles since they had horse and buggies or
rickshaws. It's not an increasing market there, but I don't see how
it can be declining.

The "market" can be determined by the number of convertibles sold vs. the
total number of vehicles sold and expressed as a percentage. If the number
of vehicles is going up (as consumers in the Emerging Markets begin to
purchase vehicles) but the percentage of convertibles is going down, then
the *global* market is declining.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...n-freedom-dims

I was never interested in the "Image of Fun and Freedom" but in actual
fun and freedom, and that hasn't diminished. When I was working,
the highlight of many spring, summer, fall days was the drive home.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:58:51 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:50:13 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:33:00 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 05:53:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 7:13:30 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/10/2016 3:09 AM, Micky wrote:


At speeds over 50 I often put up the windows, and I rarely go over 65,
too much noise.


I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

I was watching a commercial for the 2016 Buick Cascada. The top can be
raised or lowered at speeds up to 31 MPH.

That's pretty fast.

Having never owned a convertible,
this leads me to ask:

Is 31 MPH an slight improvement over other convertibles or a major improvement?
In other words, is there a speed at which other convertible tops can be
raised/lowered or has it always been required that the vehicle be stopped?

No convertible that I know of had any limit on speed until I got this
2000 Toyota Solara. Its limit was about 2 or 3 mph and it was an
enormous nuisance. I bought the shop manual and the convertible
supplement, but the relay was shown only vaguely. I asked dealers
where it was and two of them asked their mechanic but no one knew. I
was also looking behind the back seat and under the fuzzy walls of the
trunk and I eventually found it, behind the seat but accessible from
the trunk.

I could barely reach it and I couldn't fit in the trunk to get closer.
I could barely see it while I reached for it, but I did my best to cut
just the right wire, and I cut it, and now there is no speed limit on
putting it up and down.

I get stuck in the rain less than every 10 years, but I don't like
waiting when I'm going out to put the top down so I unlatch it, then
drive off while lowering it. Then when I get home, I start putting
the top up when I'm about 200 feet away from parking. Not driving
more than 15 or 20 mph either time, I think. I'll check.

I was afraid to raise or lower the top while moving for the first 10
years, but that ended 40 years ago, and never had a problem.


** I mostly know the '65 and '67 Pontiac, the '73 Buick, and the '84,
'88, and '95 Lebaron.

Putting the top up (or down) with the car at any speed at all is NOT
a good idea. A stiff crosswind will show you why in a hurry - and
lighten your wallet getting it repaired.

Maybe I'm only going 10mph. I'll check in a few minutes if I
remember, but it's not enough to fully bulge out the fabric let alone
bend anything. I've been doing this for 40 years, iow 1000's of
times, and 6 cars, so I'm sure.

My personal experience with retractible tops is limited to a 65
Pontiac Parisienne MG B, Jeep CJ and a Sunbeam Alpine - but I've had
to work on quite a number of others - both power and otherwize

But other than your own, you only see the broken cars.
No, I serviced a lot of cars that were not broken - customer list of
vehicles I saw 3 or more times a year for regular maintenance was well
over 600 - plus all the ones I saw once or twice a year - or only
once. - and that was at my last job in "the business"
The two jobs before that were general repair shops - I was usually
the only mechanic - sometimes with an apprentice and often 5 - 7 cars
in one day - othertimes only one really twisted one for a day or two
-----.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 18:00:09 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:44:31 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:20:25 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 06:43:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 9:11:14 AM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Pawlowski:
I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

Does anybody else think that convertibles lost a lot of their attraction
when steel-belted radial tires came into wide use?.... The noise...

I don't think that. I never noticed any increase in noise, and I
don't think I've ever heard tire noise.
--
Pete Cresswell

I'd blame more on the expense of the feature

But they'll pay for other things.

vs. the limited usage time,

I have my top down 6 to 7 months a year in Baltimore, and when I
lived in NYC and only drove on the weekends mostly it seemed there was
one weekend day every month in the winter that it was warm enough to
put the top down.

as well as the practicality. As the market appeal for SUV's continues to grow,
the appeal of the convertible goes in the opposite direction.

Now that I don't understand at all. What does one have to do with the
other?

Factor in the growing markets in India and China, where the concept of
"open air" brings up images of gas masks as opposed to rolling country roads,
and you can imagine the appeal dropping even further.

They hadn't driven convertibles since they had horse and buggies or
rickshaws. It's not an increasing market there, but I don't see how
it can be declining.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...n-freedom-dims

I was never interested in the "Image of Fun and Freedom" but in actual
fun and freedom, and that hasn't diminished. When I was working,
the highlight of many spring, summer, fall days was the drive home.

I'm looking forward to baysitting the TD again this summer. (a
convertible with no top - and only a pair of "brooklands" wind
screens). When it looks like rain it sits with the toneau cover on.

I would like one of those.
I helped a friend rebuild it. He's got more cars than he can drive -
so I get to exercise one every once in a while. I prefer the MG over
the Fiat cinco even though it has a roof and windshield.
See if he gets the Isetta finished this summer.

DerbyDad03 wrote: ".

Now that I don't understand at all. What does one have to do with the
other?

It's called math. More people are choosing an SUV over a convertible.
What's not to understand?



Probably the way it was worded threw Micky
off. I'm the same way: I understand things if
one changes the way they explain it - even if
it's not the way the majority grasp it.

On 05/10/2016 09:11 AM, Shade Tree Guy wrote:
Worked on one car, a Dodge 600 ES convertible with a glass rear window that shattered cause the fool had a set of golf clubs in the back seat. Left it in the rain for months. Eventually the carpets actually grew little mushrooms

Got to watch those. A friend scored a good deal on some soon to expire
mushrooms at the market, put them in a mesh bag, and threw the bag on
the rear package shelf to dry them. Then he parked the car at a
trailhead and went into the woods for a few days. When he came out the
car, which was an old and had nothing valuable in it had been broken
into. His theory is some dip saw the 'shrooms and thought they were the
magic variety.

On 05/10/2016 09:07 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
I can carry either in the back but if we're traveling then luggage
capacity is reduced to about what it was with my C-4 convertible (can we
say overnight duffel broken out and crammed into nooks and crannies?).

Sometimes that can be handy. I had a '73 Mustang and took a friend
grocery shopping. As we stood there contemplating the overloaded cart
and what passed for a trunk she said "This really isn't the sort of car
a guy interested in a woman with kids drives." "Well, babe uh..."

On 05/10/2016 03:44 PM, wrote:
I'm looking forward to baysitting the TD again this summer. (a
convertible with no top - and only a pair of "brooklands" wind
screens). When it looks like rain it sits with the toneau cover on.

I put a tonneau cover on the Sprite, fitting it on a hot summer day. It
looked sharp, a white cover on a dark blue car, you could bounce a
quarter off it.

The downside was coming home around 3AM in the cool of the evening half
in the bag and trying to snap the thing shut.

On 05/10/2016 04:00 PM, Micky wrote:
I would like one of those.

I'm amazed. I took a quick trip to Hemmings and there were quite a few
in the 15K range that looked presentable. Of course, by the time you
really go looking they might not be so attractive. Still, it's better
than the 911 craziness.

The fads always were unpredictable. I went to an auction and they
brought out a beautifully restored Corvair. It couldn't even get the
reserve and the owner looked like he was about to cry. The auctioneer
finally told him he didn't have to take the low bid, but that was all he
could reasonably expect. Fat fender coupes were in that year, Corvairs
were dogs.

On 05/10/2016 06:55 PM, wrote:
See if he gets the Isetta finished this summer.

The one I always lusted after was the Messerschmitt KR175. Helps to have
a death wish to go with it as you get run over by a Prius. One of my
more reasonable strange likes is the Citroen Traction Avant. At least
the 11's and 15's can outrun a determined bicyclist.

On 05/10/2016 03:58 PM, Micky wrote:
Maybe I'm only going 10mph. I'll check in a few minutes if I
remember, but it's not enough to fully bulge out the fabric let alone
bend anything. I've been doing this for 40 years, iow 1000's of
times, and 6 cars, so I'm sure.

You can be like my father in law. He had a thing for Checkers and
Batman. He'd come down the alley, hit the garage door opener, and drive
into his bat cave while the door was still retracting. One evening his
timing was off. Didn't bother the Checker but the lower panel of the
door was never quite the same.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 20:55:27 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 18:00:09 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:44:31 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:20:25 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 06:43:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 9:11:14 AM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Ed Pawlowski:
I had one convertible many years ago and it was fun to have back then.
About 3 days a year I'd still like to have one. The other 362 days a
year the windows are up and the climate control is set at 72. Quiet,
nice sound from the XM radio, no wind noise.

Does anybody else think that convertibles lost a lot of their attraction
when steel-belted radial tires came into wide use?.... The noise...

I don't think that. I never noticed any increase in noise, and I
don't think I've ever heard tire noise.
--
Pete Cresswell

I'd blame more on the expense of the feature

But they'll pay for other things.

vs. the limited usage time,

I have my top down 6 to 7 months a year in Baltimore, and when I
lived in NYC and only drove on the weekends mostly it seemed there was
one weekend day every month in the winter that it was warm enough to
put the top down.

as well as the practicality. As the market appeal for SUV's continues to grow,
the appeal of the convertible goes in the opposite direction.

Now that I don't understand at all. What does one have to do with the
other?

Factor in the growing markets in India and China, where the concept of
"open air" brings up images of gas masks as opposed to rolling country roads,
and you can imagine the appeal dropping even further.

They hadn't driven convertibles since they had horse and buggies or
rickshaws. It's not an increasing market there, but I don't see how
it can be declining.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...n-freedom-dims

I was never interested in the "Image of Fun and Freedom" but in actual
fun and freedom, and that hasn't diminished. When I was working,
the highlight of many spring, summer, fall days was the drive home.

I'm looking forward to baysitting the TD again this summer. (a
convertible with no top - and only a pair of "brooklands" wind
screens). When it looks like rain it sits with the toneau cover on.

I would like one of those.

I helped a friend rebuild it. He's got more cars than he can drive -
so I get to exercise one every once in a while. I prefer the MG over

I'd like a friend like that too.

the Fiat cinco even though it has a roof and windshield.
See if he gets the Isetta finished this summer.

Let me know. In fact if you could email his phone number, I would
like that.

I had a friend who gave away his beautiful big Cadillac, but instead
of giving it to me, he gave it to a rich guy in his NYCith building,
someone who could have bought his own, who retired it to his other
home in Florida, to frolic with his other cars.** I'm just kidding,
he's entitled to give it to whomever he wants and I'd be overwhelmed
if I had two cars. I need a wife to manage one of them.

**My friend otoh ran out of work and ran out of money and had to move
out of NYC after a lifetime of living there. But selling his
apartment gave him enough money to live for years elsewhere.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 18:04:35 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote: ".

Now that I don't understand at all. What does one have to do with the
other?

It's called math. More people are choosing an SUV over a convertible.
What's not to understand?



Probably the way it was worded threw Micky
off. I'm the same way: I understand things if

Pretty much. I had no idea what was intended, as my question implied,
but as my next answer said, even understanding what was meant, I still
don't agree. (with the original, not the part quoted here.)

one changes the way they explain it - even if
it's not the way the majority grasp it.

On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:50:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:



as well as the practicality. As the market appeal for SUV's continues to grow,
the appeal of the convertible goes in the opposite direction.

Now that I don't understand at all. What does one have to do with the
other?

It's called math. More people are choosing an SUV over a convertible.
What's not to understand?

Your phrasing. People may choose an SUV over a convertible, but that
does not imply the appeal of the convertible has changed. It only
means for those who buy the SUV that the SUV has more appeal than the
convertible, not that the convertible has less appeal than it did. It
reflects the fact that you can't get both features in one car.

Factor in the growing markets in India and China, where the concept of
"open air" brings up images of gas masks as opposed to rolling country roads,
and you can imagine the appeal dropping even further.

They hadn't driven convertibles since they had horse and buggies or
rickshaws. It's not an increasing market there, but I don't see how
it can be declining.

The "market" can be determined by the number of convertibles sold vs. the
total number of vehicles sold and expressed as a percentage. If the number

Maybe it's one of many ways the market can be described but I think
it's the gross number of cars that matter, and the market is staying
the same, very low.

of vehicles is going up (as consumers in the Emerging Markets begin to
purchase vehicles) but the percentage of convertibles is going down, then
the *global* market is declining.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...n-freedom-dims

This is what that url says about India and China:
"And consumers in fast-growing markets such as China and India—which
increasingly are dictating the strategies of automakers—prefer the
enclosed comfort of SUVs and sedans as a barrier to smog and a buffer
from crowded streets."

Nothing about the market going down. And the last clause is one of
those unsupported leaps. To show that the appeal of SUVs and sedans
versus convertibles is influenced by the smog and crowded streets,
they'd have to show that people bought convertibles more when there
was less smog and less crowded streets, and that's not true and they
don't try to show it, and they don't even claim it. There were never
more than a teeny tiny number of convetibles in those two markets,
probably brought by rich Americans working there or American consular
officials or their families. The biggest supply of unsupported
leaps is found in the last sentence of most TV evening news stories,
and probably other similar offerings. If you pay attention to the
last sentence, it is usually a generalization, a conclusion, a moral,
a witticism, or something like that, and it is almost always
unsupported (or even stupid, but I'm referring to TV, not the url
above).

Actually there are a lot of convertible models for sale, just no full
size ones except I think Rolls Royce. Not as many as before 1975,
but more than 1980.

I was never interested in the "Image of Fun and Freedom" but in actual
fun and freedom, and that hasn't diminished. When I was working,
the highlight of many spring, summer, fall days was the drive home.