On 4/1/2016 11:02 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 10:36:46 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

Yes, but they are *appliances* intended to NOT be power hungry. A PC
is typically not designed with that in mind.

Have you ever looked at the power consumption of a cable or satellite
box?

Yes -- they aren't designed with power efficiency in mind!
E.g., the HDHomeRun's two tuners, CPU and network interface
draws less than 10W.

And, you don't have to leave it powered up if you don't need it to be!

Cable and satellite boxes sit there 24/7/365 keeping warm just in
case you *might* want to use it.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 10:47:24 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

I'm aiming for an ascetic
*appearance*; no "technology black" boxes piled up anywhere, no thermostats
on the wall, no doorbell annunciators, etc. Everything has to be able to
hide *inside* the wall (e.g., 1G Jboxes)

I built this to hide my stuff. There are 2 satellite boxes, a ReplayTV
a PC 2 UPS's and a CD carousel behind the stone panels on both sides
of the fireplace.
The drawer units on the right were not installed in this picture and
there was still some wood trim out that was not done,.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/cabinet%202015.jpg



The smallest TV in our house is 40" and all support VGA so the three
that are not "smart" have a PC hooked to them. Any old curb side XP
machine will work if it is 3gz with a gig or two of RAM. "Flash" is

A newer box will tend to consume less power. The Dell FX160's
draw 15W and run at ~1.6GHz. I think there is a dual core
version as well.

You can't run the latest Flash on a 1.5gz single core machine.

the biggest power hog. If I am just running a local player a 1gz with
1/2 a g of ram works fine. If you are willing to run an older version
of Flash, you can run a lesser PC

We don't run flash. Anything that we want to watch gets converted to a
more portable format. Eventually, we'll have a single audio format
and a single video format -- doing the conversions *as* we add the media
to our library (e.g., my network speakers use a proprietary encoding
that lends itself well to reliable network delivery; so, dropped packets
don't compromise the quality of the listening experience).

Then you are not streaming. They all either want HTML5, Flash or
Silverlight.


Most UPnP servers require the client to be able to decode whatever
format the requested content happens to have (e.g., OGG, WAV, MP3, etc.)
*or* will transcode on the fly to a specific target format (wasteful
of resources and limits how many clients the server can support
simultaneously). If our clients all expect "my" audio format, then
why not store the content in THAT form and do the conversion once?

I only use MP3 for audio, usually 320b.

I am trying to decide on a format for video but my player handles just
about everything I throw at it.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:03:05 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 4/1/2016 11:02 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 10:36:46 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

Yes, but they are *appliances* intended to NOT be power hungry. A PC
is typically not designed with that in mind.

Have you ever looked at the power consumption of a cable or satellite
box?

Yes -- they aren't designed with power efficiency in mind!
E.g., the HDHomeRun's two tuners, CPU and network interface
draws less than 10W.

And, you don't have to leave it powered up if you don't need it to be!

Cable and satellite boxes sit there 24/7/365 keeping warm just in
case you *might* want to use it.

That is one reason I want to cut the cord. My PCs power up with the
TV. (except the one that is also acting as the server)

On 4/1/2016 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 10:47:24 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

I'm aiming for an ascetic
*appearance*; no "technology black" boxes piled up anywhere, no thermostats
on the wall, no doorbell annunciators, etc. Everything has to be able to
hide *inside* the wall (e.g., 1G Jboxes)

I built this to hide my stuff. There are 2 satellite boxes, a ReplayTV
a PC 2 UPS's and a CD carousel behind the stone panels on both sides
of the fireplace.
The drawer units on the right were not installed in this picture and
there was still some wood trim out that was not done,.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/cabinet%202015.jpg

We have stuff all over the house:
- 10 "network speakers" (the electronics housed in 1G Jboxes adjacent to each)
- 2 "help, I've fallen and I can't get up" monitors (essentially the same as
the network speakers but mounted in ceilings of bathrooms)
- HVAC controller (also drives two speakers for doorbell annunciator/paging)
- security system
- 11 network cameras (with configurable motion detection)
- laundry controller (mentioned elsewhere)
- water controller (metering, filtration/conditioning, irrigation)
- utilities (monitor gas and electric)
- weather monitoring (on the roof)
- swamp cooler (*in* the swamp cooler)
- 3 "user consoles" (my "accommodation" for SWMBO's aversion to "all this tech"
- water heater (leaks, temperature control, cycling, hooks for solar)
- garage door interface
- 2 WiFi access points
- 5 localizer beacons (to track where the occupants are currently located)
- 24 "general purpose" network drops (each independantly firewalled)
etc. Aside from the "user consoles", you'd not know any of this stuff was
"in" (literally, HIDDEN IN) the house. If you peek at the bottom
shelf in the kitchen cupboard, you'd suspect *something* unusual was happening,
here! (where the switch, UPS, database, etc. hide)

The smallest TV in our house is 40" and all support VGA so the three
that are not "smart" have a PC hooked to them. Any old curb side XP
machine will work if it is 3gz with a gig or two of RAM. "Flash" is

A newer box will tend to consume less power. The Dell FX160's
draw 15W and run at ~1.6GHz. I think there is a dual core
version as well.

You can't run the latest Flash on a 1.5gz single core machine.

You don't run it on a 1.5GHz machine! You convert it to a form
that a slower machine can process. It doesn't take much horsepower to
display full-motion, live video!

the biggest power hog. If I am just running a local player a 1gz with
1/2 a g of ram works fine. If you are willing to run an older version
of Flash, you can run a lesser PC

We don't run flash. Anything that we want to watch gets converted to a
more portable format. Eventually, we'll have a single audio format
and a single video format -- doing the conversions *as* we add the media
to our library (e.g., my network speakers use a proprietary encoding
that lends itself well to reliable network delivery; so, dropped packets
don't compromise the quality of the listening experience).

Then you are not streaming. They all either want HTML5, Flash or
Silverlight.

Anything from a "live stream" gets transcoded (if we want to view it "live")
or "converted and stored" if we want to view it at a later date.

E.g., I deal with audio in all sorts of formats -- but my network speakers
can only *play* it in my proprietary format. So, anything "live" gets
transcoded ("converted on the fly") to that format. Anything that I want
to replay, later (e.g., CD rips) gets *converted* and stored (it should be
obvious that the "converter" is the same device that does the transcoding;
the difference being whether the results are stored or consumed "live")

Most UPnP servers require the client to be able to decode whatever
format the requested content happens to have (e.g., OGG, WAV, MP3, etc.)
*or* will transcode on the fly to a specific target format (wasteful
of resources and limits how many clients the server can support
simultaneously). If our clients all expect "my" audio format, then
why not store the content in THAT form and do the conversion once?

I only use MP3 for audio, usually 320b.

I keep a 500G archive of MP3's (for PMP's and "PC usage"). But, this
is "distilled" from my lossless format, elsewhere.

I am trying to decide on a format for video but my player handles just
about everything I throw at it.

I have to choose a format that is appropriate to supporting multiple
concurrent clients "tuned" to the same media stream. I don't want
to have to double the capacity/horsepower of my server just because I have
doubled the number of clients listening to a particular radio or TV
program (at the same time). E.g., if one client wants to listen to
an audio program, the load on the server is exactly the same as if
30 clients want to listen to that same program.

Doing the same for video makes sense (imagine you were delivering video
to displays mounted on the backs of airplane seats; or to 100 rooms
in a hotel; or to dozens or hundreds of students in a school; or
hundreds of seniors in an assisted care facility; etc.). As each of
those clients can potentially "drop" packets, you don't want the clients
all trying to re-request those dropped packets from *the* server! That
means more clients results in more workload for the server.

Instead, you want a format that allows clients to request dropped packets
from *peers* (similar to how a torrent works). The more clients you have,
the more *peers* that you have to get assistance from! So, you can
keep adding clients without having to move to bigger and faster servers.

A solution that SCALES like this has to carefully consider every aspect of its
implementation -- so you *can* shift some of the responsibility to peers
without forcing them to take on an extraordinary amount of work.

On 4/1/2016 12:24 PM, wrote:
And, you don't have to leave it powered up if you don't need it to be!

Cable and satellite boxes sit there 24/7/365 keeping warm just in
case you *might* want to use it.

That is one reason I want to cut the cord. My PCs power up with the
TV. (except the one that is also acting as the server)

We currently have one SFF PC in the living room that acts as a DVD
player (we check out lots of DVD's from the local library -- probably
10-15 per week). It also has SWMBO's daily exercise videos stored
on it. And, can act as a PVR with the HDHomeRun boxes.

The other TV's pull their "content" from the HDHomeRun *live*...
or, from material stored on that little PC delivered locally via
these Optiplex FX160 boxes.

So, if we want to watch "video" in any other room, we have to turn
that PC on, first.

In the future, the STB ("network display" for want of a better word)
for a particular TV (display) will be powered up by the PoE switch.
The software that makes it a "network display" will be delivered
over the network. And, the "content" of interest similarly
delivered (if that means powering up an HDHomeRun for "live TV"
then the network connection to that HDHomeRun will be powered
up thereby powering up the HDHomeRun, in the process).

None of this requiring us to push buttons on a "front panel" or
a "remote control" (which you would then have to keep track of!)

wrote:

I am really trying to get rid of all of those bits of plastic. Vinyl,
tape, CD, and DVD

HERESY ! Vinyl rocks , and as soon as I have room up here I'm stting up my
DDTT and my reel to reel and playin' some good ol' Rock-n-Roll !
--
Snag
grin

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Terry Coombs:
Sounds like my dedicated comp will do everything but the
schedule/record function and play on more than one TV .

Assuming you are running Windows on those PCs... if you tell the PC
that does the recording to share the drive or folder it is recording
into, you can play on any TV/PC that is connected to the LAN.

Yup , that's how I do it .

--
Snag

Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
On 3/30/2016 7:17 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
I'm exploring the possibilities of installing a tuner card in the
PC we have hooked to the TV . I don't necessarily want to stream TV
thru the computer , but I'd like to record the shows my wife likes
that she misses on those nights she works . Just ordered a 1tb hdd
for that comp so I can move all the TV and movies there to make it
easier for her to use . I haven't done much research yet ,
thought this would be a good place to ask for recommendations . I
think I'd rather go with a pci/pcie card rather than a usb device
... either way , I'll have to have the sat box tuned to the proper
channel since we have no OTA reception here .

You can take all that electrical mumbo jumbo and stick it up yer arse!

And you can FOAD .

--
Snag

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:59:23 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

So, if we want to watch "video" in any other room, we have to turn
that PC on, first.

Hook an SSR to the 5v from the TV USB port and plug the PC in after
that. (Speakers, back light and all the kit)

On 4/1/2016 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:59:23 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

So, if we want to watch "video" in any other room, we have to turn
that PC on, first.

Hook an SSR to the 5v from the TV USB port and plug the PC in after
that. (Speakers, back light and all the kit)

The "real" PC (i.e., it actually has a disk in it) is located in
the living room. The other TVs are located in other rooms. None
of the TV's are smart.

These devices are on their own private network -- so they don't
muck with any of my work machines (*or* talk to the outside
world!).

The "real" PC has to be up and running in order to make available
the software image that the little Optiplex FX160's download
(TFTP/NFS) in order to display video on their respective TV's.

If I had another box running 24/7 that could serve up these images,
then the FX160's could fetch their software and then send a "magic
packet" to the "real" PC to gain access to it's disk drive (movies).

But, the only box that is up 24/7 is on my "work" network -- not
accessible by these machines.

[I could install a laptop drive in each of the FX160'S (or even
thumb drives with the required software configured to boot via usb)
but, that's not how I want these devices to operate in the final
implementation (so, I want experience to see how things can fail
*if* they fail)]

I'm aiming for an ascetic *appearance*; no "technology black" boxes
piled up anywhere, no thermostats on the wall, no doorbell
annunciators, etc.
Everything has to be able to hide *inside* the wall (e.g., 1G Jboxes)
or inside the device of which it is logically a part (e.g., put the
computer, power supply, and amplifier *in* the speaker and just run a
network cable to connect it to the wall).

I would think a centralized technology closet, basement, or spare room
would make more sense with everything home run back to that tech core. If
the amp fails, you replace the amp, not the speaker and network connection.
Decide to change things, just swap a few cables in the tech closet.

Anything that we want to watch gets converted to a more portable format.
Eventually, we'll have a single audio format and a single video format
doing the conversions *as* we add the media to our library

Yep, same here.

All of my audio is 320K MP3 as that format is widely supported by most
devices, including my smart phone and the stereos in our cars.

Video is generally h.264 MP4 with AC3 audio. I use 30Mbps bitrates with my
personal home videos, and 9Mbps for anything that I can easily replace (TV
shows, movies, etc.).

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

I built this to hide my stuff. There are 2 satellite boxes, a ReplayTV
a PC 2 UPS's and a CD carousel behind the stone panels on both sides
of the fireplace.
The drawer units on the right were not installed in this picture and
there was still some wood trim out that was not done,.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/cabinet%202015.jpg

Nice, great job!

I don't really have much to hide in the living room. My tiny M6500A media
streamer sits nicely next to my Sony Blu-Ray player (which also streams
Netflix). My audio receiver sits on the shelf below.

The majority of my technology is located in my computer in my home office.
It records and streams my shows, as well as control various lights, pumps,
and fans around the house.

Then you are not streaming. They all either want HTML5, Flash or
Silverlight.

Only if you're streaming from a web server.

Local streaming uses different protocols over your home network.

I only use MP3 for audio, usually 320b.

Me too.

I am trying to decide on a format for video but my player handles just
about everything I throw at it.

Until recently, I used 30Mbps MPEG2 for all of my videos as it had the best
quality, was widely supported by most devices and video editors, and was
easy to stream.

However, h.264 video has now reached a similar compatibility level and
offers better quality. So I now use 30Mbps h.264 video and AC3 audio in an
MP4 container.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

Hi Don,

And now the PC under your desk has to be running in order for you to
record/watch content.

It runs 365/24/7 anyway as it also controls our outdoor lighting, our hot
water recirculating pump, and our fresh air ventilation fan.

It also runs backups every night while I am sleeping, in addition to the
hourly backups it performs during the day.

In the middle of the night it also processes the TV shows I have
recorded, removing commercials, renaming the files, and moving them to my
desired directory.

I have a UPS (Uninteruptable Power Supply) for my computer, so it all
keeps running even when the power goes out.

We don't have "more cables" or wall warts, here. The (network) cable
from the wall plate to the "display server" carries power and
command/content. I can actually power an external USB disk drive from
the power available on each network connection!

Those network cables have to come from somewhere right? Maybe a network
switch or router? That's not much different than my centralized PC setup.

The antenna cables to the HDHomeRuns are in the kitchen cupboard

Hmm.. I have food in my kitchen cupboards, but whatever floats your boat.


Ah, I have a 72 port switch for the house; 24 more ports just for the
office and another 16 to handle the printers and NAS boxes.

72 ports? Wow. I've got a five port router in the office (2 printers, the
computer, a VOIP phone, and a line running to an 8 port switch in our
crawlspace).

The 8-port switch runs to my media streamer, my blu-ray player, my
daughters computer, a wireless access point in the attic, and the rest go
to wall plates that I never use anymore.

I use my computer for a LOT more than just recording video
But you are *requiring* it to satisfy a need that could be addressed
by something smaller, less costly, less dependant on THAT particular
implementation.

I've used other options in the past, dedicated timers and whatnot. I much
prefer the centralized location as it's easier to make changes and
upgrade when needed.

I can let it email incoming messages (as sound files) to me when I
am out of town (so I don't have to pay toll charges to "check my
messages"). Or, I can have a little box that effectively does the
same thing and leave my computers OFF when out of town.

My phone system records calls too, but if it is unavailable due to a
power or network outage, my VOIP service records the call and sends the
WAV file to me by email too.

Yes, but they are *appliances* intended to NOT be power hungry. A PC
is typically not designed with that in mind.

My computer is always on, so I make a strong effort to select components
that use little power and are very quiet. Once I turn the monitor off at
night, my computer typically uses less than 90 watts. I use quiet fans
that are virtually silent so there is no noise overnight either.

Here, I can power up/down each bit of technology that I use to control
the house "under program control".

I use Insteon switches to control lights, a pump, and a fan. Then use an
Insteon interface and software to control them with my computer.

This allows me to control the lights on our detached garage, even though
there are no separate cables running to that building (it's out of wifi
range too).

But you're just thinking about *your* house.

Correct, my house is all I'm concerned with. I'm not running a hotel or
business complex.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 4/1/2016 9:48 PM, HerHusband wrote:
I'm aiming for an ascetic *appearance*; no "technology black" boxes
piled up anywhere, no thermostats on the wall, no doorbell
annunciators, etc.
Everything has to be able to hide *inside* the wall (e.g., 1G Jboxes)
or inside the device of which it is logically a part (e.g., put the
computer, power supply, and amplifier *in* the speaker and just run a
network cable to connect it to the wall).

I would think a centralized technology closet, basement, or spare room
would make more sense with everything home run back to that tech core. If
the amp fails, you replace the amp, not the speaker and network connection.
Decide to change things, just swap a few cables in the tech closet.

That puts a lot of kit in a place that then needs to be aggressively
cooled. And, takes up a lot of space! Think about how many "field"
leads are involved there -- all the speakers, the microphone on each,
the drivers for the irrigation solenoids, video output for the TV's,
wires from all the alarm sensors, inputs from the weather instruments
on the roof, antennae/CATV feeds, phone lines, coax from all the cameras,
control signals for the PTZ camera bases, etc.

[I've already got ~3000 ft of CAT5 in place; I'd need more than that
if I was running field wiring to the "equipment cupboard"]

And, how many PC's do I stuff in that closet with countless "I/O cards"
to interface to all of this field wiring?

It's much simpler -- and more economical -- to put the computer *at*
the I/O. This also lets you *add* computers at other sites just by
snaking a length of CAT5 to the location -- assuming you don't already
have a "drop" there to exploit. E.g., there are 4 uncommitted drops
in the living room so I can put a floor standing "network speaker"
in each corner of the room without having to run "speaker wires"
from some central closet. Likewise, I can add a "network display"
(aka TV) in any room just by connecting to one of the uncommitted
network drops *in* that room.

My original implementation had 11 PC's in an "equipment closet" talking
to dumber processors distributed around the house. This would have cost
us the walk-in pantry (SWMBO wasn't keen on that idea -- in a house that
is already short on storage space).

Increasing the computational horsepower in each of these distributed
nodes allowed me to get rid of all of the PC's save one (COTS RDBMS).
And, lets the system grow by naturally adding more "motes" as the number
of I/O's increases (add another camera and you don't need to add another
PC to do the real-time motion detection *in* that PC)

Anything that we want to watch gets converted to a more portable format.
Eventually, we'll have a single audio format and a single video format
doing the conversions *as* we add the media to our library

Yep, same here.

All of my audio is 320K MP3 as that format is widely supported by most
devices, including my smart phone and the stereos in our cars.

Video is generally h.264 MP4 with AC3 audio. I use 30Mbps bitrates with my
personal home videos, and 9Mbps for anything that I can easily replace (TV
shows, movies, etc.).

On 4/1/2016 10:39 PM, HerHusband wrote:
And now the PC under your desk has to be running in order for you to
record/watch content.

It runs 365/24/7 anyway as it also controls our outdoor lighting, our hot
water recirculating pump, and our fresh air ventilation fan.

Only one box here runs 24/7 -- the DNS/TFTP/font/NFS/NTP/RDBMS/etc. server.
It's implemented with one of those FX160's as it sits under my dresser
(no display or keyboard; telnet/ssh to it when I need to do maintenance)

It also runs backups every night while I am sleeping, in addition to the
hourly backups it performs during the day.

In the middle of the night it also processes the TV shows I have
recorded, removing commercials, renaming the files, and moving them to my
desired directory.

My goal is to only run what I need to run based on *when* I need to
run it. E.g., the answering machine only powers up when the VOIP
gateway indicates an incoming call; the irrigation system only powers
up when something needs to be watered; the network speakers are only
powered on when I need to listen to something, etc.

I have a UPS (Uninteruptable Power Supply) for my computer, so it all
keeps running even when the power goes out.

I have a UPS on each workstation (I think 11, at last count). The
switch for the automation system has a pair of SmartUPS 1500's.
But, I will replace them with a 48V unit (lets me get more efficiency
in the PoE capability as I don't have to develop the 48V just for
the switch; let the UPS develop it for the battery pack!)

The alarm system has it's own battery backup (literally a battery as
it is PoE powered, as well).

We don't have "more cables" or wall warts, here. The (network) cable
from the wall plate to the "display server" carries power and
command/content. I can actually power an external USB disk drive from
the power available on each network connection!

Those network cables have to come from somewhere right? Maybe a network
switch or router? That's not much different than my centralized PC setup.

There's no way around needing a switch (wireless is too vulnerable and
means you then need to distribute power via some other means -- and
back it up in all those locations!). I you put a bunch of PC's in a
central closet, then you need a switch to let them talk to each other,
etc.

Powering everything from the switch lets me avoid lots of wall warts
around the house. And, lets me back up (power) everything from one place.
As the switch lets me power down individual "drops", I can scale back the
services that I offer during a power outage (i.e., probably not important
to water the citrus trees if they *should* be watered but power is down).

The antenna cables to the HDHomeRuns are in the kitchen cupboard

Hmm.. I have food in my kitchen cupboards, but whatever floats your boat.


We have *no* storage inside the house -- beyond the bedroom closets,
a "guest closet" (that also stores the vacuum and carpet cleaners)
and the kitchen pantry and cupboard.

The master bedroom's closets are full of clothing and some artwork
(can't store art in the garage!). The office closet is full of
test equipment, "supplies", magnetic media, etc. The guest bedroom
closet has laptops, A/V equipment (stored), laser/dvd's, etc.

I've commandeered the lowest shelf in the pantry (I never to know whether
to call it a pantry or cupboard; it's the larger of these two "kitchen
storage spaces") plus the floor beneath that shelf. The UPS's sit on the
floor. The VOIP gateway and HDHomeRun boxes connect to antenna and phone
feeds that terminate/originate there. All of the network cables terminate
on a patch panel -- from which they can be cabled to the network switch
that sits there. An SFF PC sits on the shelf with external USB drives
tethered to it (to implement the data store for the RDBMS that runs
on the PC). There's a 1U console on slides that I can pull out to
"talk to" the PC -- and, from there, to the rest of the system:
http://www.allsold.ca/image/cache/data/SG//P1017276-500x500.jpg
http://www.allsold.ca/image/cache/data/SG//P1017278-500x500.jpg
It's hard to imagine a *smaller*/denser implementation!

Ah, I have a 72 port switch for the house; 24 more ports just for the
office and another 16 to handle the printers and NAS boxes.

72 ports? Wow. I've got a five port router in the office (2 printers, the
computer, a VOIP phone, and a line running to an 8 port switch in our
crawlspace).

24 of the ports are "uncommitted". E.g., there are 4 drops in the
living room, two in the kitchen (counters), 1 each on the back and front
porches, 2 in each of the three bedrooms, 2 in the dining room, 3 in the
family room, one in the front hallway (and I'm forgetting a few).

The remaining 48 are wired to bits of technology hidden in the ceilings,
walls, etc.:
- HVAC & swamp cooler controllers
- water, utilities (gas/electric) controllers
- 11 security cameras
- 10 network speakers (ceiling or high on walls)
- laundry, garage door, water heater, landscape lighting
- 5 localizer beacons
- 2 wireless access points
- 2 UPS's
- CATV, POTS and DTV interfaces
etc.

The drop in the office connects to the (regular) 24 port switch that
feeds the machines located there (2 PC workstations, 2 Sun workstations,
2 X-Windows terminals, 2 1U servers, 2 2U servers, SWMBO's computer and
laptop, 3 printers, several COTS NAS's, a couple of pieces of test
equipment, etc.).

The drop in the guest bedroom talks to the (regular) 16 port switch that
handles the multimedia workstation, my DNS/TFTP/etc. box, another printer,
a (docked) tablet PC, several FX160's that implement my "custom" NAS, etc.

[I have a LOT of kit! Perhaps you can understand why I am obsessed about
hiding any *other* kit that the *house* might "require"?? : ]

The 8-port switch runs to my media streamer, my blu-ray player, my
daughters computer, a wireless access point in the attic, and the rest go
to wall plates that I never use anymore.

I use my computer for a LOT more than just recording video
But you are *requiring* it to satisfy a need that could be addressed
by something smaller, less costly, less dependant on THAT particular
implementation.

I've used other options in the past, dedicated timers and whatnot. I much
prefer the centralized location as it's easier to make changes and
upgrade when needed.

Ah, but the distributed system *appears* as a single cohesive system!
It just looks like dozens of "cores". Instead of having all of the
field wiring coming to one GIANT multicore machine, the cores are
located with the I/O's.

[The "program" that runs the irrigation system does not NEED to run
on the node that has the irrigation system I/O's wired to it! The
system can dispatch that program to some other node as it deems
appropriate (because the irrigation controller might be busy
detecting commercials in some video that is being recorded by
another processor, somewhere). Likewise, if the system needs more
computational resources, it can power up a node that is currently
"off" and use it's CPU/memory to address some other task for which
it needs resources. When done, it can power that node down to
conserve power.]

I can let it email incoming messages (as sound files) to me when I
am out of town (so I don't have to pay toll charges to "check my
messages"). Or, I can have a little box that effectively does the
same thing and leave my computers OFF when out of town.

My phone system records calls too, but if it is unavailable due to a
power or network outage, my VOIP service records the call and sends the
WAV file to me by email too.

We don't use a VOIP service. We have POTS service *to* the house.
We use VOIP *inside* the house. I.e., a daemon watches the VOIP
gateway for signs of an incoming call. When detected, a task is
dispatched (fetched from the RDBMS's persistent store) on a
"processor with available resources" that answers the call, decides
if it is someone that we want to talk to, decides if we are
"available" (i.e., not asleep, in the shower, in the back yard, etc.)
and then notifies us of the call -- which we can elect to route
to the answering machine, etc.

If, for example, *I* am calling, I might want to issue commands to
the house ("water the roses", "let me know if I left the garage door
open", "give me my messages", "record a message for Bob when he
calls, later", etc.). Likewise, if we're out of town and have a
neighbor watching the house, they can call and tell the house to
perform certain actions (instead of having to come over, let themselves
in and tell the house directly).

When walking around the neighborhood, I can carry a cordless phone
(NOT a cell phone!) and talk to the house -- or, have the house
talk to me ("A package was just delivered for you", "Bob is waiting
for you at the front door", etc.)

Yes, but they are *appliances* intended to NOT be power hungry. A PC
is typically not designed with that in mind.

My computer is always on, so I make a strong effort to select components
that use little power and are very quiet. Once I turn the monitor off at
night, my computer typically uses less than 90 watts. I use quiet fans
that are virtually silent so there is no noise overnight either.

My machines have lots of I/O's -- tablets, cameras, motion controllers,
SCSI peripherals, etc. So, lots of I/O cards in each machine. I run
three monitors on each workstation so multiple video cards. etc.

[One reason that I have so many different workstations is due to the
number of I/O's that I support; it's just not possible to connect
everything to *one* machine]

If I leave a workstation on 24/7, it shows up in our electric bill!

Here, I can power up/down each bit of technology that I use to control
the house "under program control".

I use Insteon switches to control lights, a pump, and a fan. Then use an
Insteon interface and software to control them with my computer.

This allows me to control the lights on our detached garage, even though
there are no separate cables running to that building (it's out of wifi
range too).

I'll *buy* a "solution" for lighting. It's just too much work to
try to control loads with "custom" hardware. (And, I don't want
to be in that market)

But you're just thinking about *your* house.

Correct, my house is all I'm concerned with. I'm not running a hotel or
business complex.

I've invested a lot of effort in the system design and the hardware/software
implementation. It would be foolish for me to be limited by "a family of
four".

As I want to show folks how you can make products accessible, I want to be
able to demonstrate that I'm addressing *big* projects, not just "token"
projects.

I can easily see taking modules from my design and deploying them in
an assisted living facility ("help I've fallen", video conferencing so
residents can "visit" with their neighbors while otherwise not mobile,
local HVAC controls, etc.)

Or, in a business office environment.

Or, in an "institutional" setting (school for blind).

Or, in a hotel.

etc.

Individual modules can stand alone to address particular needs
(security system, IP cameras, HVAC controller, irrigation controller,
answering machine, etc.). By designing them as appliances (instead of
"software running on a PC"), they can be "ported" as-is... no need to
redesign "PC hardware and software" to fit in an appliance form factor!

[I have never liked "do overs" in product development. Get it right
the first time, then move on to some other challenge. "Version 2"
is nothing more than a chore, in my book!]

And to think this thread started because I wanted to record NCIS for my
wife ! Y'all are way way more involved in computerizing/automating things
than I have any desire to .
To quote Don Williams , "I'm just a country boy."
--
Snag

On 4/2/2016 3:45 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
And to think this thread started because I wanted to record NCIS for my
wife ! Y'all are way way more involved in computerizing/automating things
than I have any desire to .

The "involvement" is a consequence of the immaturity of computerized products.
Even the "appliances" aren't (yet) "turn-key".

Consider how "involved" it was to cook *inside* a home, wash clothes there,
refrigerate the interior air, etc. before we had appliances to do those things.
Consider how "involved" it was to operate an automobile. etc.

But, those technologies have all "grown up" and become mainstream. (people
don't even look under the hood of their vehicles anymore!)

To quote Don Williams , "I'm just a country boy."

"No matter where you go, there you are!"

Only one box here runs 24/7

I just have the one computer running everything, so it's the only box
that runs 24/7 also.

I have a UPS on each workstation (I think 11, at last count).

11? Wow, that sounds expensive, and space hungry.

The switch for the automation system has a pair of SmartUPS 1500's.

I have a Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD for my computer, monitor, cable modem,
and router.

My network switch is not on a UPS, since all the stuff that accesses it
goes out when the power goes off anyway.

But, I will replace them with a 48V unit

My UPS isn't running very long these days before it shuts down (about 10
minutes max). I replaced the batteries last year (cheap knockoffs) but it
didn't help. I just ordered new genuine Cyberpower batteries to give it
another try. If it doesn't help I plan to buy a larger UPS and delegate
this UPS to lesser importance devices.

Powering everything from the switch lets me avoid lots of wall warts
around the house.

That switch must have a large power supply in order to power all 72
ports?

[I have a LOT of kit! Perhaps you can understand why I am obsessed
about hiding any *other* kit that the *house* might "require"?? : ]

With that many devices, I can see why your network powered system would
be a smart idea.

We don't use a VOIP service. We have POTS service *to* the house.

We dropped the standard telephone service years ago. They were charging
over $100 a month, provided no caller ID or other services, and only
local calling to our little town. All of our family and businesses we
dealt with were long distance.

Once we got cable internet, I switched to VOIP for about $20 a month,
full services, voice mail, and free long distance anywhere in the
country.

As I want to show folks how you can make products accessible, I want
to be able to demonstrate that I'm addressing *big* projects, not just
"token" projects.

Kudo's to you for thinking big. I don't think most people need that kind
of thing in a typical home environment. As it is, my wife thinks I've
gone overboard with my simple setup.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

Terry,

And to think this thread started because I wanted to record NCIS for
my wife!

Yeah, threads can drift off topic sometimes. Sorry about that.

For what it's worth, you can access full episodes of NCIS from:

http://www.cbs.com/shows/ncis/

With the right software, you can save those episodes to your computer for
viewing on other devices.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

Hi Anthony,

On 4/2/2016 6:55 AM, HerHusband wrote:
Only one box here runs 24/7

I just have the one computer running everything, so it's the only box
that runs 24/7 also.

There'd be no practical way of me getting all the field wiring *into*
one computer!

So, the little 24/7/365 box just provides the "core services" that
all of the other boxes need when they come online. The same approach
is implemented by the RDBMS server in my automation system (it's the
only place where things can be "remembered")

I have a UPS on each workstation (I think 11, at last count).

11? Wow, that sounds expensive, and space hungry.

Most of my machines are too big to be able to put them on a
shared UPS (and be able to power more than one up at a time).
The UPS's also act as "outlet multipliers" and "common power
switches" -- I'll plug a workstation and its attached peripherals
into *one* UPS; the next workstation (and *its* peripherals) into
the next UPS, etc. So, a workstation appears to have a single power
cord instead of many.

E.g., the workstation on which I prepare my documentation has
the PC, a film scanner, an A-size scanner and a B-size scanner
attached to it along with a DLT. Each, of course, has a power
cord. When I'm done with that workstation, I can push the power
button on the UPS and ensure that all are powered off. In the
event of an electrical storm, I can unplug the UPS and know all
of those devices are isolated from the mains.

Repeat this for the CAD workstation, multimedia workstation,
each of the two Sun workstations, SWMBO's computer, the 1U
servers share a UPS (because they have few I/O's and are
never powered up together) and the 2U servers share another
(same logic). This email/WWW machine has its own UPS as does
that little DNS box.

As my monitors are "shared" between workstations (I connect each
monitor to two workstations and then use the A/B switches on the
monitor front panels to select which workstation's output I am
viewing), they can't be plugged into a "workstation-specific" UPS
(cuz the UPS for that particular workstation might be powered off
while the workstation that is supplying video is powered on!).
So, there's another UPS that just keeps the monitors "up".

Another does the same for the NAS boxes (again, they aren't associated
with any *particular* workstation so can't logically be tied to
a particular UPS)

The expense comes in the form of the batteries. : Buying them in
lots of 20 helps with the price. But, it's not the sort of purchase
that I enjoy making!

For the most part, I just need the UPS's to bridge short brownouts
and blinkouts. Actual, prolonged outages are very rare, here.
(OTOH, a single "blink" can screw up the rendering of a multimedia
presentation or the layout of a printed circuit board; the price of
a battery is a pittance compared to the time lost!)

The switch for the automation system has a pair of SmartUPS 1500's.

I have a Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD for my computer, monitor, cable modem,
and router.

My network switch is not on a UPS, since all the stuff that accesses it
goes out when the power goes off anyway.

Ditto for the office. My only risk, there, is a file transfer to/from
a NAS, FTP service, etc. And, as those things are under my control, I
can always restart them at a later time.

The automation system, however, is a different story. I can't afford to
lose telephone, HVAC controls, security, etc. just because the power
glitched. And, having everything reboot can quickly lead to inconvenience
(though I can boot everything in less time than a PC takes to get up and
running -- the RDBMS being the slowpoke in the lot)

But, I will replace them with a 48V unit

My UPS isn't running very long these days before it shuts down (about 10
minutes max). I replaced the batteries last year (cheap knockoffs) but it
didn't help. I just ordered new genuine Cyberpower batteries to give it
another try. If it doesn't help I plan to buy a larger UPS and delegate
this UPS to lesser importance devices.

The PoE switch supplies 48V to the devices on the ends of the network
drops. So, having a 48V *battery* in the UPS (instead of the 24V batteries
in my current UPS's) seems like it should be more effective at keeping
things "up" when the power is out.

Powering everything from the switch lets me avoid lots of wall warts
around the house.

That switch must have a large power supply in order to power all 72
ports?

Yes. Worst case, about 1100W (in addition to what the switch uses itself).
But, that assumes each port is drawing the maximum 15W that I can deliver
over the network. I don't use that sort of power on every port (imagine
a dozen bookshelf speakers consuming 15W?? A dozen IP cameras consuming
15W each??).

[I have a LOT of kit! Perhaps you can understand why I am obsessed
about hiding any *other* kit that the *house* might "require"?? : ]

With that many devices, I can see why your network powered system would
be a smart idea.

It's the only way all of that distributed kit can be practical!
if each device had its own "local" power supply, you'd always have to
wonder if a (remote) power supply had failed and that was the reason
why you couldn't "talk" to a remote node. With control of the
power 8at* the switch, I can know that power *is* being delivered
(diagnostics in the switch) so if the remote node isn't responding
then it's cable has been cut *or* it is fried. I.e., you can skip
the "is the device plugged in?" part of the troubleshooting.

Imagine in an office or "institution"... someone unplugging a wall wart
and crippling a device! (Consider the implications if that device was
providing a security function!)

We don't use a VOIP service. We have POTS service *to* the house.

We dropped the standard telephone service years ago. They were charging
over $100 a month, provided no caller ID or other services, and only
local calling to our little town. All of our family and businesses we
dealt with were long distance.

We have no long distance needs. We used to buy $20 "calling cards" (2c/minute)
but found that we couldn't use them up in the ~year allowed.

I think our local phone is ~$30/month and SWMBO's cell phone is another $8-10.
For the few times when she wants to phone her sister, she'll use the surplus
minutes on her cell phone -- to help burn off the "balance".

Once we got cable internet, I switched to VOIP for about $20 a month,
full services, voice mail, and free long distance anywhere in the
country.

Cable, here, has a bad reputation for service and availability. Most
folks drop the service and switch to Dish for TV and DSL for ISP.
You can see the number of homes that have had wire problems as the
cable company just lays a cable ON the soil and promises to send
someone around to bury it, "soon". Their idea of "soon" apparently
differs from most folks'! (i.e., years!)

As I want to show folks how you can make products accessible, I want
to be able to demonstrate that I'm addressing *big* projects, not just
"token" projects.

Kudo's to you for thinking big. I don't think most people need that kind
of thing in a typical home environment. As it is, my wife thinks I've
gone overboard with my simple setup.

I spent most of my career addressing *markets*. Now, I address *needs*.

My goal is to demonstrate how you can "design for accessibility" as the
number of "deficiencies" (avoiding the term "disabilities") that are
apparent in the population suggests that's a common problem (7% of
men are color blind; 10% of men over 50 develop essential tremor;
diabetes and macular degeneration costs folks their vision; age costs
folks their mobility; Parkinson's; ALS; etc.)

But, a "white paper" approach would just be received as "gee, that's
interesting" with no real consequential followup. A "token" application
trivializes the effort involved and the impact (design an alarm clock that
can be used by people with any/all of these "deficiencies").

So, I needed a substantial project to illustrate different challenges
(to the user interface) and how they could be consistently addressed.
And, something that is "exciting"/interesting (no one cares about an
"accessible clock"!). Put someone *in* a "device" with which they can
interact in a variety of ways and most folks want to poke at it to
see what it can do, what its limitations are, how it addresses particular
situations, etc.

It becomes a MEMORABLE experience. So, hopefully, they take that memory
with them as they begin to address *their* designs. And, maybe, think
about the assumptions that they implicitly "encode" in those products.

HerHusband wrote:
Terry,

And to think this thread started because I wanted to record NCIS for
my wife!

Yeah, threads can drift off topic sometimes. Sorry about that.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

Not worried about drift , I've learned a lot from this discussion . I just
don't have the infrastructure some of y'all have .

--
Snag

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 05:45:17 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

And to think this thread started because I wanted to record NCIS for my
wife ! Y'all are way way more involved in computerizing/automating things
than I have any desire to .
To quote Don Williams , "I'm just a country boy."


"Easy" is just buying a Tivo.

On 4/2/2016 8:22 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Not worried about drift , I've learned a lot from this discussion . I just
don't have the infrastructure some of y'all have .

The problem lies with the fact that most of these "tech" devices
are "too technical". They force much of the knowledge and responsibility
for their use onto the user.

Your *car* knows that it needs to advance the ignition timing as
RPM's increase -- *you* don't have to tweek that each time you
alter the pressure on the accelerator. It knows to disconnect the
AC compressor's clutch when the car is under load (for improved
performance) -- so *you* don't have to do so. It knows to keep
the coolant liquid in the block while the car is warming up -- so
*you* don't have to manually open/close a valve.

I.e., all you have to do is point the car in the right direction
and poke at the gas and brake, accordingly.

When it comes to tech products (anything "computerized"), the
device expects *you* to know what's appropriate for its use.

*You* have to tell your TV to scan for available channels
(even though it KNOWS that it is fresh out of the box and
has no idea what "market" you are in!). *You* have to tell your
PVR *when* to start recording a particular show ("a few minutes
before I *expect* the show to start until a few minutes after I
would imagine it will end"). *You* have to tell your irrigation
controller when to water and how much to water. etc.

Part of the problem is rooted in the culture that is present
where these devices are designed -- often by "engineers" who
have their own preconceived notions of how a device should be
*used* (or, worse, by marketing droids with NO knowledge of
engineering and only a tenuous grasp on what their "market"
thinks -- most folks don't know what they WANT; but, they
*do* know what they DON'T want... after they've seen it!)

Ever been to a web site that wants your name, address, billing
information, etc. BEFORE it will tell you what the shipping
charges will be? (yeah, you can't be *certain* unless you
have an exact address, residence/business, etc. BUT you could
give folks a rough idea -- or, look at their IP address and
give them a *refined* idea without even having to ask for their
ZIP code!)

Young engineers/designers often think they're going to "go the extra
mile" -- and let EVERYTHING in a product be configurable. Shirley,
this gives the user the most flexibility in tailoring the product
to his particular needs (instead of imposing some sense of how it
should behave). In reality, they are simply abrogating their
responsibility to come up with a REALISTIC configuration that
they can justify to their users.

Imagine a car that let you set the shift points of the transmission,
the amount of ignition advance at each engine speed, etc. You could
tweek its performance to suit *your* driving style, fuel efficiency
concerns, etc.

Now, imagine you can't take the car out on the road UNTIL you've done
this! And, of course, the manual that describes the process was
hastily thrown together and contains many errors and omissions. :

So, the wiser "young engineer" learns to come up with a reasonable
"default" configuration that is enough to get the new owner up and
running -- letting him later tweek it IF HE SO CHOOSES. But, the
defaults have been picked with some rational argument behind each choice
so they "make sense" -- even if they aren't appropriate for all users!

A next level of "design maturity" has the designer learning NOT to
impose his particular usage style on the product. E.g., NOT requiring
a "name" BEFORE an "address"; allowing a form to be completed in
whatever order the user chooses. Letting the user decide which
radio/TV preset should be associated with each "station" -- instead of
assigning them in some fixed order (yeah, it might seem logical that
channels be placed in a list in numerical order. But, if I'm always
using channels 6 and 32, then why do I want all those other channels
in the middle -- just to have to skip over them as I move between 6 and 32?
(OTOH, I don't want them ELIMINATED as I may refer to them from time
to time)

Yet another level of sophistication is ANTICIPATING the user's needs.
E.g., the driver's seat moving into position for you based on your
identifying yourself by the KEY you use to gain entry to the vehicle!
Or, the radio tuning in "your favorite station" when you start the
vehicle.

*Or*, knowing that you listen to the news radio station on your morning
commute but listen to jazz when driving around in the evening!

Despite having the *brains* to do these things, most computerized products
aren't ambitious enough in how they interact with their user(s). They
"play it safe" and expect the user to *tell* them everything -- often
in extraordinary levels of UNNECESSARY detail (why can't I just say
"music" and have the stereo know what *I* want to listen to, now, and
"news" when I want MY favorite news channel tuned?)

Add to this the lack of consistency between products -- and the differences
between manufacturers and its no wonder such a large percentage of product
returns are due to "its too difficult to use" (IIRC, that figure is now 25%)

Per :
"Easy" is just buying a Tivo.

The Tivo I tried some years ago *really* impressed me with the
simplicity/elegance of it's interface and setup.... only reason I
returned it was the EPG charge.

Since settled into SageTV and it does almost everything I want.... but I
still have to give Tivo credit.
--
Pete Cresswell

I.e., all you have to do is point the car in the right direction
and poke at the gas and brake, accordingly.

Some of us still drive an old carbureted car with manual transmission and
NOTHING computerized on it. There's a bit more involved than poking the gas
and brake. Just getting it to start is an achievement!

*You* have to tell your irrigation controller when to water
and how much to water. etc.

1. Connect hose.
2. Screw on nozzle.
3. Turn on water.
4. Aim nozzle and squeeze.

Imagine a car that let you set the shift points of the transmission

That's called a stick shift.

Or, the radio tuning in "your favorite station" when you start the
vehicle.

Mine is always on the same station, so it automatically selects the right
station every time I turn it on.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 9:18:05 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
I'm exploring the possibilities of installing a tuner card in the PC we
have hooked to the TV . I don't necessarily want to stream TV thru the
computer , but I'd like to record the shows my wife likes that she misses on
those nights she works . Just ordered a 1tb hdd for that comp so I can move
all the TV and movies there to make it easier for her to use .
I haven't done much research yet , thought this would be a good place to
ask for recommendations . I think I'd rather go with a pci/pcie card rather
than a usb device ... either way , I'll have to have the sat box tuned to
the proper channel since we have no OTA reception here .
--
Snag

I came across this company started by one of the former child stars from The Brady Bunch. I thought it was interesting and the company has some amazing stuff for TV and video. ^_^

http://www.hauppauge.com/index.htm

[8~{} Uncle TV Monster

On 4/2/2016 9:37 PM, HerHusband wrote:
I.e., all you have to do is point the car in the right direction
and poke at the gas and brake, accordingly.

Some of us still drive an old carbureted car with manual transmission and
NOTHING computerized on it. There's a bit more involved than poking the gas
and brake. Just getting it to start is an achievement!

Yup. Despite being what I do for a living, the idea of facing all of
those electronics in SWMBO's vehicle is intimidating! And, thinking that
some grease monkey knows which end is UP is laughable!

I'm wondering how the "push to start" feature handles an ignition problem??

("Check Engine"?)

*You* have to tell your irrigation controller when to water
and how much to water. etc.

1. Connect hose.
2. Screw on nozzle.
3. Turn on water.
4. Aim nozzle and squeeze.

Aren't you implicitly telling your irrigation controller (i.e., yourself)
when to water and how much to water?

Imagine a car that let you set the shift points of the transmission

That's called a stick shift.

Or, the radio tuning in "your favorite station" when you start the
vehicle.

Mine is always on the same station, so it automatically selects the right
station every time I turn it on.

Sadly, while SWMBO's car *seems* to track "my settings" vs. "her settings"
(based on which key is used to start the vehicle), it does NOT seem to
adjust the "current selection" for the entertainment system! It *does*
remember her stations vs. mine, her auto-headlight sensitivity vs. mine,
etc. But, it just can't seem to remember that she listens to the radio/CD
while I listen to a thumb drive!

On 3/30/2016 7:17 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
I'm exploring the possibilities of installing a tuner card in the PC we
have hooked to the TV . I don't necessarily want to stream TV thru the
computer , but I'd like to record the shows my wife likes that she misses on
those nights she works . Just ordered a 1tb hdd for that comp so I can move
all the TV and movies there to make it easier for her to use .
I haven't done much research yet , thought this would be a good place to
ask for recommendations . I think I'd rather go with a pci/pcie card rather
than a usb device ... either way , I'll have to have the sat box tuned to
the proper channel since we have no OTA reception here .

Hauppauge Colossus 2. Add an HDCP stripper between the HDMI output of
the cable or satellite box and the Hauppauge Colossus 2.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/webstore2/webstore_colossus2.html
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0089DSLMY

On 3/31/2016 9:43 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
HerHusband wrote:

I record TV shows on my PC, then stream them over my home network
using a "media streamer". This provides many advantages, including
being able to watch shows I've recorded, videos I've downloaded from
online sources (youtube, etc.), video I've ripped from my DVD's, or
home movies I've created myself.

Anthony Watson

Expound on this "media streamer , please ? The way I'm doing it is to put
it on a hdd in one of my comps , stream it from there to whatever box I want
to watch it on . I believe the intranet lag might be why I have had synch
problems , and have just ordered a 1Tb hdd to install in the "media box" .

You can use a Roku box (or other device) on each TV and turn a PC into a
media server.
https://plex.tv/
https://plex.tv/roku

You also have the issue of getting the content onto the server from your
cable or satellite service.

For an OTA DVR you can use a Tablo with Roku boxes, but it won't work
for you since you don't have OTA.

Of course the easiest way is to get a satellite box with a DVR but you
have to pay monthly fees for that.

If you do so then please do share your experience. I was also thought of doing this before.

On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 1:10:01 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 4/2/2016 8:22 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Not worried about drift , I've learned a lot from this discussion . I just
don't have the infrastructure some of y'all have .

The problem lies with the fact that most of these "tech" devices
are "too technical". They force much of the knowledge and responsibility
for their use onto the user.

Your *car* knows that it needs to advance the ignition timing as
RPM's increase -- *you* don't have to tweek that each time you
alter the pressure on the accelerator. It knows to disconnect the
AC compressor's clutch when the car is under load (for improved
performance) -- so *you* don't have to do so. It knows to keep
the coolant liquid in the block while the car is warming up -- so
*you* don't have to manually open/close a valve.

I.e., all you have to do is point the car in the right direction
and poke at the gas and brake, accordingly.

When it comes to tech products (anything "computerized"), the
device expects *you* to know what's appropriate for its use.

*You* have to tell your TV to scan for available channels
(even though it KNOWS that it is fresh out of the box and
has no idea what "market" you are in!). *You* have to tell your
PVR *when* to start recording a particular show ("a few minutes
before I *expect* the show to start until a few minutes after I
would imagine it will end"). *You* have to tell your irrigation
controller when to water and how much to water. etc.

Part of the problem is rooted in the culture that is present
where these devices are designed -- often by "engineers" who
have their own preconceived notions of how a device should be
*used* (or, worse, by marketing droids with NO knowledge of
engineering and only a tenuous grasp on what their "market"
thinks -- most folks don't know what they WANT; but, they
*do* know what they DON'T want... after they've seen it!)

Ever been to a web site that wants your name, address, billing
information, etc. BEFORE it will tell you what the shipping
charges will be? (yeah, you can't be *certain* unless you
have an exact address, residence/business, etc. BUT you could
give folks a rough idea -- or, look at their IP address and
give them a *refined* idea without even having to ask for their
ZIP code!)

Young engineers/designers often think they're going to "go the extra
mile" -- and let EVERYTHING in a product be configurable. Shirley,
this gives the user the most flexibility in tailoring the product
to his particular needs (instead of imposing some sense of how it
should behave). In reality, they are simply abrogating their
responsibility to come up with a REALISTIC configuration that
they can justify to their users.

Imagine a car that let you set the shift points of the transmission,
the amount of ignition advance at each engine speed, etc. You could
tweek its performance to suit *your* driving style, fuel efficiency
concerns, etc.

Now, imagine you can't take the car out on the road UNTIL you've done
this! And, of course, the manual that describes the process was
hastily thrown together and contains many errors and omissions. :

So, the wiser "young engineer" learns to come up with a reasonable
"default" configuration that is enough to get the new owner up and
running -- letting him later tweek it IF HE SO CHOOSES. But, the
defaults have been picked with some rational argument behind each choice
so they "make sense" -- even if they aren't appropriate for all users!

A next level of "design maturity" has the designer learning NOT to
impose his particular usage style on the product. E.g., NOT requiring
a "name" BEFORE an "address"; allowing a form to be completed in
whatever order the user chooses. Letting the user decide which
radio/TV preset should be associated with each "station" -- instead of
assigning them in some fixed order (yeah, it might seem logical that
channels be placed in a list in numerical order. But, if I'm always
using channels 6 and 32, then why do I want all those other channels
in the middle -- just to have to skip over them as I move between 6 and 32?
(OTOH, I don't want them ELIMINATED as I may refer to them from time
to time)

Yet another level of sophistication is ANTICIPATING the user's needs.
E.g., the driver's seat moving into position for you based on your
identifying yourself by the KEY you use to gain entry to the vehicle!
Or, the radio tuning in "your favorite station" when you start the
vehicle.

*Or*, knowing that you listen to the news radio station on your morning
commute but listen to jazz when driving around in the evening!

Despite having the *brains* to do these things, most computerized products
aren't ambitious enough in how they interact with their user(s). They
"play it safe" and expect the user to *tell* them everything -- often
in extraordinary levels of UNNECESSARY detail (why can't I just say
"music" and have the stereo know what *I* want to listen to, now, and
"news" when I want MY favorite news channel tuned?)

Add to this the lack of consistency between products -- and the differences
between manufacturers and its no wonder such a large percentage of product
returns are due to "its too difficult to use" (IIRC, that figure is now 25%)

Sounds like you're ready for products like that $300 Nest Thermostat.
Where instead of you telling it what temps you want and at what times,
it guesses based on motion sensors, detecting patterns, etc. Then when
you take the day off from work sick, set the temp to 75F, you find out
3 hours later it's back to 60F, because the thermostat knows better and
you can't tell it to stop screwing around. And you never know what it's
really doing, is going to do next, etc, because it's all based on what
the thermostat thinks it should do, as opposed to you telling it what to
do. Me, I'll stick with a
traditional programmable thermostat, because I can figure out how to
program it. Same thing with a DVR. I have a Tivo, like millions of other
people and no problem figuring out how to set it up. I guess you want one
where it tells you what to watch.

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 4:23:51 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 9:18:05 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
I'm exploring the possibilities of installing a tuner card in the PC we
have hooked to the TV . I don't necessarily want to stream TV thru the
computer , but I'd like to record the shows my wife likes that she misses on
those nights she works . Just ordered a 1tb hdd for that comp so I can move
all the TV and movies there to make it easier for her to use .
I haven't done much research yet , thought this would be a good place to
ask for recommendations . I think I'd rather go with a pci/pcie card rather
than a usb device ... either way , I'll have to have the sat box tuned to
the proper channel since we have no OTA reception here .
--
Snag

I came across this company started by one of the former child stars from The Brady Bunch. I thought it was interesting and the company has some amazing stuff for TV and video. ^_^

http://www.hauppauge.com/index.htm

[8~{} Uncle TV Monster

What makes you think a child star from the Brady Bunch was involved with
founding Hauppauge Computer? I knew two of the founders, one, Plotkin is
CEO today. We worked for the same company back in the day when they left to
start Hauppauge. I never heard anything about the Brady Bunch.

In article ,
says...

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 4:23:51 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 9:18:05 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
I'm exploring the possibilities of installing a tuner card in the PC we
have hooked to the TV . I don't necessarily want to stream TV thru the
computer , but I'd like to record the shows my wife likes that she misses on
those nights she works . Just ordered a 1tb hdd for that comp so I can move
all the TV and movies there to make it easier for her to use .
I haven't done much research yet , thought this would be a good place to
ask for recommendations . I think I'd rather go with a pci/pcie card rather
than a usb device ... either way , I'll have to have the sat box tuned to
the proper channel since we have no OTA reception here .
--
Snag

I came across this company started by one of the former child stars from The Brady Bunch. I thought it was interesting and the company has some amazing stuff for TV and video. ^_^

http://www.hauppauge.com/index.htm

[8~{} Uncle TV Monster

What makes you think a child star from the Brady Bunch was involved with
founding Hauppauge Computer? I knew two of the founders, one, Plotkin is
CEO today. We worked for the same company back in the day when they left to
start Hauppauge. I never heard anything about the Brady Bunch.

I found this. It seems he only sold his company to Hauppauge, not a
founder.

"Christopher Anton Knight (born November 7, 1957[1]) is an American
actor. He is known for playing Peter Brady on the 1970s series, The Brady
Bunch. He has since gone on to become a successful businessman...

In 1998, he founded his own TV tuner company, Eskape Labs; it was
purchased by Hauppauge Computer Works in 2000."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Knight_(actor)

--
RonNNN

On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 9:43:29 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 4:23:51 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 9:18:05 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
I'm exploring the possibilities of installing a tuner card in the PC we
have hooked to the TV . I don't necessarily want to stream TV thru the
computer , but I'd like to record the shows my wife likes that she misses on
those nights she works . Just ordered a 1tb hdd for that comp so I can move
all the TV and movies there to make it easier for her to use .
I haven't done much research yet , thought this would be a good place to
ask for recommendations . I think I'd rather go with a pci/pcie card rather
than a usb device ... either way , I'll have to have the sat box tuned to
the proper channel since we have no OTA reception here .
--
Snag

I came across this company started by one of the former child stars from The Brady Bunch. I thought it was interesting and the company has some amazing stuff for TV and video. ^_^

http://www.hauppauge.com/index.htm

[8~{} Uncle TV Monster

What makes you think a child star from the Brady Bunch was involved with
founding Hauppauge Computer? I knew two of the founders, one, Plotkin is
CEO today. We worked for the same company back in the day when they left to
start Hauppauge. I never heard anything about the Brady Bunch.

I found this. It seems he only sold his company to Hauppauge, not a
founder.

"Christopher Anton Knight (born November 7, 1957[1]) is an American
actor. He is known for playing Peter Brady on the 1970s series, The Brady
Bunch. He has since gone on to become a successful businessman...

In 1998, he founded his own TV tuner company, Eskape Labs; it was
purchased by Hauppauge Computer Works in 2000."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Knight_(actor)

--
RonNNN

K, thanks. That explains it. Looks like he was the founder of a
company that Hauppauge bought. Uncle had me wondering if I was
mingling with Hollywood celebs and didn't know it.

On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 8:18:10 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 4:23:51 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 9:18:05 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
I'm exploring the possibilities of installing a tuner card in the PC we
have hooked to the TV . I don't necessarily want to stream TV thru the
computer , but I'd like to record the shows my wife likes that she misses on
those nights she works . Just ordered a 1tb hdd for that comp so I can move
all the TV and movies there to make it easier for her to use .
I haven't done much research yet , thought this would be a good place to
ask for recommendations . I think I'd rather go with a pci/pcie card rather
than a usb device ... either way , I'll have to have the sat box tuned to
the proper channel since we have no OTA reception here .
--
Snag

I came across this company started by one of the former child stars from The Brady Bunch. I thought it was interesting and the company has some amazing stuff for TV and video. ^_^

http://www.hauppauge.com/index.htm

[8~{} Uncle TV Monster

What makes you think a child star from the Brady Bunch was involved with
founding Hauppauge Computer? I knew two of the founders, one, Plotkin is
CEO today. We worked for the same company back in the day when they left to
start Hauppauge. I never heard anything about the Brady Bunch.

I must have mixed it up with another company but I think HC may have bought the company. I'll go back and look for the link and post it. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Link Monster

On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 8:51:13 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 9:43:29 AM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sunday, April 3, 2016 at 4:23:51 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 9:18:05 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
I'm exploring the possibilities of installing a tuner card in the PC we
have hooked to the TV . I don't necessarily want to stream TV thru the
computer , but I'd like to record the shows my wife likes that she misses on
those nights she works . Just ordered a 1tb hdd for that comp so I can move
all the TV and movies there to make it easier for her to use .
I haven't done much research yet , thought this would be a good place to
ask for recommendations . I think I'd rather go with a pci/pcie card rather
than a usb device ... either way , I'll have to have the sat box tuned to
the proper channel since we have no OTA reception here .
--
Snag

I came across this company started by one of the former child stars from The Brady Bunch. I thought it was interesting and the company has some amazing stuff for TV and video. ^_^

http://www.hauppauge.com/index.htm

[8~{} Uncle TV Monster

What makes you think a child star from the Brady Bunch was involved with
founding Hauppauge Computer? I knew two of the founders, one, Plotkin is
CEO today. We worked for the same company back in the day when they left to
start Hauppauge. I never heard anything about the Brady Bunch.

I found this. It seems he only sold his company to Hauppauge, not a
founder.

"Christopher Anton Knight (born November 7, 1957[1]) is an American
actor. He is known for playing Peter Brady on the 1970s series, The Brady
Bunch. He has since gone on to become a successful businessman...

In 1998, he founded his own TV tuner company, Eskape Labs; it was
purchased by Hauppauge Computer Works in 2000."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Knight_(actor)

--
RonNNN

K, thanks. That explains it. Looks like he was the founder of a
company that Hauppauge bought. Uncle had me wondering if I was
mingling with Hollywood celebs and didn't know it.

That's it, now I don't have to find the link! ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Hollywood Monster