On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 22:01:55 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On 02/04/2016 2:25 PM, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 10:06:30 PM UTC-5, wrote:


By the way, what is synthetic oil made from?

Crude oil, exactly the same stuff regular oil is made from. The
process is slightly different though and the mix of "anes" is much
smaller.


AFAIK all the current commercial motor oils are processed crude as noted
but I'd say it's more than a "just slightly" different process.

There are fully-synthetic oils purposes but they're far more expensive
yet...

--




Pennzoil Pure Platinum Plus is made from natural gas. Most of the other
synthetic oils are made from a blend of conventional and very refined oils.
Castrol was sued by Mobil for false advertisement for their blends but the
judge sided with Castrol.
All oils sold as "full synthetics" are made from reconstituted
petroleum hydrocarbons of one sort or another except for the recent
"green" product made of reconstituted vegatable oil.

The feed stock is broken down to it's molecular level and then
recombined to form a consistent (engineered) product.

There are also higher end POA ans Estter synthetic lubricants

On 02/04/2016 4:01 PM, badgolferman wrote:
....

Pennzoil Pure Platinum Plus is made from natural gas. ...

Interesting. Hadn't known that; never look at Pennzoil, actually other
than for the large tractors don't see there's much need/point for
anything we've got...

--

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 15:18:21 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 10:40:49 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Shade Tree Guy wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 8:10:01 AM UTC-8, Tony Hwang wrote:

You broke a rule. Never sell anything to friends/relatives. Don't even
give something free.

Over the last 20 years I've fixed up or sold outright 3-4 cars and a Chevy G-20 van, usually with newly rebuilt motors or valve jobs.
Quickly found that I also "sold" lifetime free labor for any repairs needed as long as they owned the cars.
FYI: I no longer accept "free cars" that just need a "little work"

LOL! IMO, shade tree grease monkey days are over now.
Today's cars are more electronics than mechanics.

That is over sold. The fact is the only thing that changed is the
shade tree mechanic needs a code reader or he has to go up to the auto
parts store for a free readout.
That actually made working on cars easier, not harder because 99% of
the time, the computer will nail the bad part if it is computer
related.

Not true unless you have a reader/scanner costing like couple Gs.
Cheap code reader can't read all the codes(generic, manufacturer
specific, ABS, SRS).

For all the engine specific codes a cheap scanner is all you need. For
ABS and a lot of other specific codes, there are readers out there for
a few hundred dollars that will get most of them When you want to get
in and control things, like exercising the ABS, or exercise the IAC
valve, you need the full-on professional units.

Nail the bad part? Some times yes. Not 99% of time.

The "mechanic" still needs to have a functioning brain and needs to
understand how things are SUPPOSED to work. The scanner just tells you
what computer inputs are wrong - you still need to figure out what
caused those inputs to be wrong. Could be the sensor itself, or could
be something causing what the sensor senses to be out of spec.
You're so simplistic big time. If you short something fooling around
Poof! ECU goes. Then how much for replacement? I have a mid level
updatable reader/scanner. Telling you from own experience. My back is in
electronics. Even taught 12V electronics at local tech college as a
volunteer. I help neighbors when they have CEL on their dash.

You need to know what you are doing - just like you needed to know
what you were doing to adjust a carburetor, or automatic choke.

All in all maintaining today's vehicles is MUCH simpler, because they
require only a fraction of the maintenance older cars needed.
Repairs can be simpler too - it;s just the diagnosis has gotten a lot
more involved.

The rest of the wrenching did not change much. The reality is, a lot
of it like the good old "tune up" just went away. Plugs last pretty
much the life of the car for most people and there are no points to
burn. Timing is fixed and there is no carb to adjust.

Timing is fixed? wrong. ECU adjusts timing real time back and forth.

The timing is "fixed" as in YOU cannot adjust it - and it never needs
adjusting.

If they just put a little access door to check/add oil and water, you
could bolt the hood shut.

Can be done with additional option if driver wants it. Why bother MID
will tell oil status, color yellow or red with message. When you have
red, watch out.

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 15:23:53 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:37:09 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
.
The rest of the wrenching did not change much. The reality is, a lot
of it like the good old "tune up" just went away. Plugs last pretty
much the life of the car for most people and there are no points to
burn. Timing is fixed and there is no carb to adjust.
If they just put a little access door to check/add oil and water, you
could bolt the hood shut.

That is about right for most cars up to atleast 100,000 miles. Change oil
and check on the water and other fluids. I had a 91 toyota that I changed
oil twice a year and the factory said change the timming belt every so many
miles. I did have the water pump changed at the same time as it is under
all the covering and driven by the timming belt. Breaks, tires and a sensor
was all that I did to it in 200,000 miles. I did replace the plugs, coil
and wires while trying to find out what was causing the problem at 120,000
miles.


Honda bundles a lot of stuff into their $1000 belt job. I am not sure
if I got plugs or not but I never replaced them.

So you don't notice the difference between new Iridium plugs and worn
out old ones? Ever compared two under high power mag. glass? I replace
them when clock hits 100K Km.
You can tell the difference between worn out and new, for sure. The
difference between new standard plug and new "gee-whiz high tech"
plugs, not likely - unless like with My PT cruiser it misfired with
Champion Iridiums and ran great on standard dual platinums - or like
several renault powered LeSharo motor homes that I ran across that ran
like crap on Bosch platinums, and ran great on ACs..

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 15:26:50 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:37:09 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
.
The rest of the wrenching did not change much. The reality is, a lot
of it like the good old "tune up" just went away. Plugs last pretty
much the life of the car for most people and there are no points to
burn. Timing is fixed and there is no carb to adjust.
If they just put a little access door to check/add oil and water, you
could bolt the hood shut.

That is about right for most cars up to atleast 100,000 miles. Change oil
and check on the water and other fluids. I had a 91 toyota that I changed
oil twice a year and the factory said change the timming belt every so many
miles. I did have the water pump changed at the same time as it is under
all the covering and driven by the timming belt. Breaks, tires and a sensor
was all that I did to it in 200,000 miles. I did replace the plugs, coil
and wires while trying to find out what was causing the problem at 120,000
miles.


Honda bundles a lot of stuff into their $1000 belt job. I am not sure
if I got plugs or not but I never replaced them.

That is water pump, valve gap adjustment. Tune up is separate service.
A lot of mechanics will look at the plugs when doing a "major"
service like that and throw in new ones if they are needed - at no
extra labour charge.
For a good customer, some dealers will even throw in the cost of the
plugs as part of the "deal".

wrote in message
...
For a good customer, some dealers will even throw in the cost of the
plugs as part of the "deal".

Around here the dealer even charges for the rags the mechanic uses.

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 15:18:21 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 10:40:49 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Shade Tree Guy wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 8:10:01 AM UTC-8, Tony Hwang wrote:

You broke a rule. Never sell anything to friends/relatives. Don't even
give something free.

Over the last 20 years I've fixed up or sold outright 3-4 cars and a Chevy G-20 van, usually with newly rebuilt motors or valve jobs.
Quickly found that I also "sold" lifetime free labor for any repairs needed as long as they owned the cars.
FYI: I no longer accept "free cars" that just need a "little work"

LOL! IMO, shade tree grease monkey days are over now.
Today's cars are more electronics than mechanics.

That is over sold. The fact is the only thing that changed is the
shade tree mechanic needs a code reader or he has to go up to the auto
parts store for a free readout.
That actually made working on cars easier, not harder because 99% of
the time, the computer will nail the bad part if it is computer
related.

Not true unless you have a reader/scanner costing like couple Gs.
Cheap code reader can't read all the codes(generic, manufacturer
specific, ABS, SRS). Nail the bad part? Some times yes. Not 99% of time.
You're so simplistic big time. If you short something fooling around
Poof! ECU goes. Then how much for replacement? I have a mid level
updatable reader/scanner. Telling you from own experience. My back is in
electronics. Even taught 12V electronics at local tech college as a
volunteer. I help neighbors when they have CEL on their dash.


I have had cars with ECUs in them since the end of the Carter
administration and the code nailed the problem virtually every time.
Maybe I am just careful enough not to "short something fooling around"
so I didn't ever blow an ECU.
I have been in the computer biz since 1965 so I am not intimidated by
something as simple as the processor(s) in a car.

The rest of the wrenching did not change much. The reality is, a lot
of it like the good old "tune up" just went away. Plugs last pretty
much the life of the car for most people and there are no points to
burn. Timing is fixed and there is no carb to adjust.

Timing is fixed? wrong. ECU adjusts timing real time back and forth.

As far as the user is concerned, it is fixed.

If they just put a little access door to check/add oil and water, you
could bolt the hood shut.

Can be done with additional option if driver wants it. Why bother MID
will tell oil status, color yellow or red with message. When you have
red, watch out.

You still need to get to the filler neck ;-)

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 15:23:53 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:37:09 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
.
The rest of the wrenching did not change much. The reality is, a lot
of it like the good old "tune up" just went away. Plugs last pretty
much the life of the car for most people and there are no points to
burn. Timing is fixed and there is no carb to adjust.
If they just put a little access door to check/add oil and water, you
could bolt the hood shut.

That is about right for most cars up to atleast 100,000 miles. Change oil
and check on the water and other fluids. I had a 91 toyota that I changed
oil twice a year and the factory said change the timming belt every so many
miles. I did have the water pump changed at the same time as it is under
all the covering and driven by the timming belt. Breaks, tires and a sensor
was all that I did to it in 200,000 miles. I did replace the plugs, coil
and wires while trying to find out what was causing the problem at 120,000
miles.


Honda bundles a lot of stuff into their $1000 belt job. I am not sure
if I got plugs or not but I never replaced them.

So you don't notice the difference between new Iridium plugs and worn
out old ones? Ever compared two under high power mag. glass? I replace
them when clock hits 100K Km.

The belt should have been done by then, hence my point.

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 15:26:50 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Honda bundles a lot of stuff into their $1000 belt job. I am not sure
if I got plugs or not but I never replaced them.

That is water pump, valve gap adjustment. Tune up is separate service.

They also did crank shaft seals and a laundry list of other little
things. They really have to do some selling to get me to pay $1000 for
a belt job my local mechanic quoted $400 for.
I suppose I may still have the receipt here somewhere but I thought it
would be just about anything I could think of.

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 18:28:19 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
For a good customer, some dealers will even throw in the cost of the
plugs as part of the "deal".

Around here the dealer even charges for the rags the mechanic uses.


They always do that (shop charge, environmental charge etc)
I made them throw all of that into the grand. I still had to pay the
tax tho.
You CAN wheel and deal with the service writer.

On 2/4/2016 6:28 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message
...
For a good customer, some dealers will even throw in the cost of the
plugs as part of the "deal".

Around here the dealer even charges for the rags the mechanic uses.



They all used to just include that in the price as the cost of doing
business. Some marketing a=hole came up with the idea to add 3% to the
bill for that stuff.

In parts of Italy some restaurant started adding a charge for using the
plates and silverware called Coperto.

On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 19:11:37 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 18:28:19 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
For a good customer, some dealers will even throw in the cost of the
plugs as part of the "deal".

Around here the dealer even charges for the rags the mechanic uses.


They always do that (shop charge, environmental charge etc)
I made them throw all of that into the grand. I still had to pay the
tax tho.
You CAN wheel and deal with the service writer.
Generally the writer hasn't got much wiggle room, but as the service
MANAGER I did.

On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 20:27:18 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 19:11:37 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 18:28:19 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
For a good customer, some dealers will even throw in the cost of the
plugs as part of the "deal".

Around here the dealer even charges for the rags the mechanic uses.


They always do that (shop charge, environmental charge etc)
I made them throw all of that into the grand. I still had to pay the
tax tho.
You CAN wheel and deal with the service writer.
Generally the writer hasn't got much wiggle room, but as the service
MANAGER I did.

The dealers around here seem to let the service writers and even the
salesmen throw in oil change chits, car washes and all sorts of other
things that are a minimal cost to the dealer.
I did take a bit of selling to agree to $600 more than the guy up at
the end of my street but I did feel better having the dealer doing it.
They did sweeten the pot tho with a lot of other stuff.
I think the only thing I really talked them out of was the shop
charges.
It also helped that I was off season and they had a lot of guys
sitting around polishing their wrenches.

On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:56:04 -0500, wrote:

All oils sold as "full synthetics" are made from reconstituted
petroleum hydrocarbons of one sort or another except for the recent
"green" product made of reconstituted vegatable oil.

The feed stock is broken down to it's molecular level and then
recombined to form a consistent (engineered) product.


I always thought they were mad without any petroleum. I sort of had the
idea they were made from all vegetable oils, or other plant products.
Guess I was wrong!

How can oil be made from natural gas? I cant picture that!

There are also higher end POA ans Estter synthetic lubricants

Please explain what this means.
POA is a type of horse. (Pony of America)
Estter is a day when everyone dyes eggs and goes to church (but spelled
wrong).

On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 3:51:48 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:56:04 -0500, wrote:

There are also higher end POA ans Estter synthetic lubricants

Please explain what this means.
POA is a type of horse. (Pony of America)
Estter is a day when everyone dyes eggs and goes to church (but spelled
wrong).

In chemistry, esters are chemical compounds derived from an acid (organic or inorganic) in which at least one -OH (hydroxyl) group is replaced by an -O-alkyl (alkoxy) group. Usually, esters are derived from a carboxylic acid and an alcohol.

I would assume petroleum oil additives...for POA?

On Fri, 05 Feb 2016 03:50:12 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:56:04 -0500, wrote:

All oils sold as "full synthetics" are made from reconstituted
petroleum hydrocarbons of one sort or another except for the recent
"green" product made of reconstituted vegatable oil.

The feed stock is broken down to it's molecular level and then
recombined to form a consistent (engineered) product.


I always thought they were mad without any petroleum. I sort of had the
idea they were made from all vegetable oils, or other plant products.
Guess I was wrong!

How can oil be made from natural gas? I cant picture that!

Natural gas is just VERY LOW VISCOSITY oil. Made of the same building
blocks but arranged differently. Making synthetic oil is just piling
specific blocks in a particular pattern when you get fown to the
basics - and it doesn't matter where the blocks come from or how they
were piled before.

There are also higher end POA ans Estter synthetic lubricants

Please explain what this means.
POA is a type of horse. (Pony of America)
Estter is a day when everyone dyes eggs and goes to church (but spelled
wrong).
Sorry, it's Pao and is short for Polyalphaolefins
PAG is polyalkylene Glycol,
POE is Polyolester , AKA Ester oil. (sorry I mis-spelled that one
too!!!!)

posted for all of us...


Pennzoil Pure Platinum Plus is made from natural gas. Most of the other
synthetic oils are made from a blend of conventional and very refined oils.
Castrol was sued by Mobil for false advertisement for their blends but the
judge sided with Castrol.
All oils sold as "full synthetics" are made from reconstituted
petroleum hydrocarbons of one sort or another except for the recent
"green" product made of reconstituted vegatable oil.

The feed stock is broken down to it's molecular level and then
recombined to form a consistent (engineered) product.

There are also higher end POA ans Estter synthetic lubricants


Are they genetically modified?
--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...


This was before the coking ; just an example as to cite. It was around 1975
IIRC. IIRC Scramsoil was the only synthetic at that time. My memory foggy...
My brother bought a 1965 Valliant back around 1970 or 1971.. 4 door
sedan, automatic trans, 225 slant six - a real "ceam puff" with low
mileage - somewhere around 65000 miles as I recall, but the valves

I had one where I ran out of coolant because of a blown lower hose, (you
don't want to know the story). I repaired it and found the block was
cracked. Never leaked, gave it to a destitute friend and he put another 150k
on it before crashing it.

--
Tekkie