I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.

I would bother with the pan, plastic would be even better if you could find one. With a plastic pan, a water detector with the two metallic sensing electrodes placed on the top side of the bottom of the plastic pan would not need to be electrically isolated from the pan. If a metal pan, the sensing electrodes would have to be isolated from the pan by a thin layer of something non-conductive.

"Nil" wrote in message
...
I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.

Two answers (one to an unasked question):

1. I would use a pan

2. Out here anyway, you must raise the water heater a couple feet off the
floor, to minimize fire danger if there is a gasoline spill or such. I
don't know if that applies to an area not capable of housing an automobile.

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:28:06 -0500, Nil
wrote:

I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.

If the basement is unfinished why bother with a pan?
Then you have to always check the damn pan instead of just noticing
water on the floor.
IME water heaters spring a small leak when they go bad.

On 2016-01-26 8:09 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:28:06 -0500, Nil
wrote:

I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.

If the basement is unfinished why bother with a pan?
Then you have to always check the damn pan instead of just noticing
water on the floor.
IME water heaters spring a small leak when they go bad.

Not always, sometimes they are a major flood, mine went out big time,
fortunately in a basement with a drain.


--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:09:38 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

IME water heaters spring a small leak when they go bad.

Not at 2 AM or at sunrise on Sunday morning when water runs under the
garage door.

On 1/26/2016 6:28 PM, Nil wrote:
I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.


I'd do a 24" but ONLY if there was some means of plumbing it to a sump
somehow. Any of the available sizes aren't going to do squat for you if
that tank leaks and you're not checking it every hour or so for the
leak. Why bother?

OTOH, you could plumb that pan to a second one adjacent to the water
heater and put a small pump, like a Simer with the electronic sensor
on/off switch and then plumb THAT to the outdoors (looking for a plastic
pan as someone else suggested).

Oh, and IMHO I don't think having the pan there regardless of whether or
not it's plumbed is going to make any difference or prevent a leak from
the tank. It's not the water tank itself that's in contact with the
concrete, it's the outer shell. You can take an awl and punch holes in
it all day and you're not likely to spring a leak.g

On 26 Jan 2016, wrote in alt.home.repair:

I would bother with the pan, plastic would be even better if you
could find one. With a plastic pan, a water detector with the two
metallic sensing electrodes placed on the top side of the bottom
of the plastic pan would not need to be electrically isolated from
the pan. If a metal pan, the sensing electrodes would have to be
isolated from the pan by a thin layer of something non-conductive.

I was told that plastic pans were exclusively for electric heaters and
aluminum pans could be used for either electric or gas.

I like the idea of a water detector, which would activate an alarm I
assume.

I built an alarm out of an old smoke/fire alarm. So, when it sounds, it is the same as if a smoke or ionization detector goes off. Pretty hard to ignore unless you are a VERY HEAVY sleeper. As I remember, I ran two wires from either side of the actual smoke detector module to two wires that went to the basement floor just inside the drip pan. I bared about 4" at the end of each wire and placed them an inch apart on the pan. When water contacted both wires, the alarm went off just fine. Now the water wasn't totally clean as it picked up dirt as it dripped down the side of the heater, but it was enough to trigger the alarm. You could try doing the same thing with any old fire alarm.

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 20:20:07 -0500, FrozenNorth
wrote:

On 2016-01-26 8:09 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:28:06 -0500, Nil
wrote:

I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.

If the basement is unfinished why bother with a pan?
Then you have to always check the damn pan instead of just noticing
water on the floor.
IME water heaters spring a small leak when they go bad.

Not always, sometimes they are a major flood, mine went out big time,
fortunately in a basement with a drain.

In which case a pan wouldn't help.

FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-01-26 8:09 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:28:06 -0500, Nil
wrote:

I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.

If the basement is unfinished why bother with a pan?
Then you have to always check the damn pan instead of just noticing
water on the floor.
IME water heaters spring a small leak when they go bad.

Not always, sometimes they are a major flood, mine went out big time,
fortunately in a basement with a drain.


I never experienced major flood, just drip, drip leak. Tank is right
next to basement drain. Our heater is Kenmore 9 year warrantied model
going on 14th year. Keeping close watch for leaks. Knock on the wood...

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:28:06 -0500, Nil
wrote:

I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.
We put in a pan when we replaced my daughter's water heater. I think
it was 26" and about 5 or 6 inches deep.

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:00:08 -0800, "taxed and spent"
wrote:


"Nil" wrote in message
.. .
I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.

Two answers (one to an unasked question):

1. I would use a pan

2. Out here anyway, you must raise the water heater a couple feet off the
floor, to minimize fire danger if there is a gasoline spill or such. I
don't know if that applies to an area not capable of housing an automobile.


Up here we "generally" don't put water heaters in the garage. - pipes
are liable to freeze in the winter.

On 01/26/2016 05:37 PM, Nil wrote:
On 26 Jan 2016, wrote in alt.home.repair:

I would bother with the pan, plastic would be even better if you
could find one. With a plastic pan, a water detector with the two
metallic sensing electrodes placed on the top side of the bottom
of the plastic pan would not need to be electrically isolated from
the pan. If a metal pan, the sensing electrodes would have to be
isolated from the pan by a thin layer of something non-conductive.

I was told that plastic pans were exclusively for electric heaters and
aluminum pans could be used for either electric or gas.

I like the idea of a water detector, which would activate an alarm I
assume.

If you are clever you could wire it into a relay which would control a
contactor to shut down the power and activate a solenoid valve to shut
off the water supply to the heater, in addition to the alarm.

Jon

On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 7:28:12 PM UTC-5, Nil wrote:
I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.

The bottom of a gas water heater tank never sits on the floor to begin
with, so your pan will have no effect on corrosion of the tank. The
whole burner assembly is under the tank. I'd get a pan that fits the
tank comfortably. Beyond that, it doesn't matter. If you have a
French drain at the perimeter, they have ones where you can attach a
hose to it. And I'd get one of those $10 alarms and put it in the pan.

On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:20:07 PM UTC-5, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2016-01-26 8:09 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:28:06 -0500, Nil
wrote:

I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.

If the basement is unfinished why bother with a pan?
Then you have to always check the damn pan instead of just noticing
water on the floor.
IME water heaters spring a small leak when they go bad.

Not always, sometimes they are a major flood, mine went out big time,
fortunately in a basement with a drain.


--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati

And sometimes without a pan, they can have a moderate leak with the
water stream running in a direction away from a leak detector that's
sitting on the floor. With a detector in a pan, it will go off,
assuming it's working.

On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:46:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I built an alarm out of an old smoke/fire alarm. So, when it sounds, it is the same as if a smoke or ionization detector goes off. Pretty hard to ignore unless you are a VERY HEAVY sleeper. As I remember, I ran two wires from either side of the actual smoke detector module to two wires that went to the basement floor just inside the drip pan. I bared about 4" at the end of each wire and placed them an inch apart on the pan. When water contacted both wires, the alarm went off just fine. Now the water wasn't totally clean as it picked up dirt as it dripped down the side of the heater, but it was enough to trigger the alarm. You could try doing the same thing with any old fire alarm.

Or wire on both jaws of a clothespin, aspirin tablet in between, water dissolves the tablet and jaws snap closed. Used to be a standard leak detector in the old days.

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:28:06 -0500, Nil
wrote:

I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.


All basements need a floor drain. I'd somehow install a floor drain
before even bothering with a pan. Put in a sump pump if thats the only
way to get a drain.

Unless you desire a swimming pool under your house, a basement floor
drain is a 100% requirement. It's not "IF" you're basement is going to
flood, it's "WHEN". I cant understand why anyone would even build a
house without the drain. Thats just stupid!

I know this from experience. I owned a house that had no floor drain in
the basement. But it's for that reason that I bought the house. Because
there was 6ft of water in the basement, I bought the place really cheap.
After pumping it out, I made a hole in the concrete floor and installed
a sump pit and pump. Problem solved!

On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 14:54:31 -0600, wrote:


All basements need a floor drain.

Who says? Your never saw a ground level basement walk out door with a
garage?

On 1/27/2016 7:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 14:54:31 -0600, wrote:


All basements need a floor drain.

Who says? Your never saw a ground level basement walk out door with a
garage?


All generalites are false. Oh, meant to write
"simply, all generalities are false." Honest!
You can trust me.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

one night I heard water running and found my water heater leaking from the top, spraying lots of water out the flue/

a drip pan wouldnt of caught a small fraction of the leak.

i stand by others statement to add a floor drain in the basement

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 7:32:05 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 14:54:31 -0600, wrote:


All basements need a floor drain.

Who says? Your never saw a ground level basement walk out door with a
garage?

House I've lived in for 20+ years has a full basement, below grade.
It has a French drain along the basement perimeter and one sump pump
hole. There was no floor drain, nor a sump pump. In all the years
I've lived here, the sump pump hole which is a good 3 ft deep, hasn't
had any water in it. It's been totally bone dry, even in the heaviest
of rains. To be of any use, there would have to be
multiple floor drains and in 20+ years, there hasn't been anything
that required them.

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:28:06 -0500, Nil
wrote:

I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

The old one sprang a leak, hence the new one. Fortunately I was home at
the time and not too much water leaked out before I discovered it. I
have an idea that an aluminum pan would be a good idea because the
bottom of the tank would be less likely to rust or corrode if not in
direct contact with the concrete floor. Does that idea have any merit?
If a leak occurred, the pan would fill up pretty quickly, but it would
buy me a little time to drain it out the back door with a hose.

Two questions:

- would you bother with the pan?

- if so, for a 21.5" diameter tank, how big a pan? They come in 22",
24" and 26" diameter sizes.

Truth be told, I wouldn't bother. We've been in this house 34 years
and are on our 4th water heater. The first three all started to leak,
but very slowly, so I had ample time to drain them before there was
more than a small puddle in the immediate area of the heater. That
being said, if having a pan gives you peace of mind you might as well
do it. They are cheap enough.

In Dana F Bonnett writes:

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:28:06 -0500, Nil
wrote:

I'm having a new natural gas water heater installed. My old one was
sitting right on the concrete floor of the basement. There is no floor
drain in the basement.

a: pick up a few conrete or brick blocks and place
them on the concrete, then put the water heater
on top of them. Just an inch or two would be fine.

This gets your heater off the concrete, keeping it
a bit cleaner, dust off the bottom, reduces the
rust from water seepage up from the ground, etc.

It also makes the controls and valves a few
inches higher and easier to reach...

b: plastic trays for putting under washing
machines are a standard item in hardware
stores, and would work fine under your
water heater. Just make sure that everything
is stable and, again, but the concrete/brick
spacers between the plastic and the bottom
of your heater.

--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]