SWMBO is complaining that the library is turning more and more to
ebooks (do away with the brick&mortar facilities and let amazon
act as the "library" -- some sort of contract they've hammered out).

She's not keen on giving up look/feel of paper. But, figures there's
no other option for some of these titles (if library has it in *any*
form, they will not process a request to find a "paper copy" at some
OTHER library in the next town, etc.)

I've moved much of my technical library to electronic form (simply
can't afford to keep all that paper on shelves, here!) and do so with
a "tablet PC". It gives me a decent screen size (~12") so that I can
view typical 8.5x11 pages/sheets in full size (assuming there is a half
inch margin on the page -- which the display doesn't need to reproduce!).

Also gives me color, the ability to make annotations with the pen,
support for external media, non-proprietary file formats AND other
utilities -- things that aren't usually present in an eReader (which
tries to be smaller, lighter and run for long periods off battery).

I offered to build her an identical machine but she's not keen on
the size (she's used to reading paperbacks or hard-bound editions
which typically don't have/need the larger page size that the materials
I read require). And, the things she reads tend not to have illustrations,
charts, "color", etc.

So, anyone with a fair bit of first-hand experience willing to share
observations as to what they like/dislike about *their* eReader
(make/model)? ISTR at least one unit only allowed you to put
materials onto it via a wireless link -- to a *vendor*! I'm not
sure how that will work with the library's offerings. Nor how
you can later "backup" those acquisitions onto some other media
(lest your eReader *fail*).

[These are all issues that my "solution" avoided...]

On 1/13/2016 2:17 PM, Don Y wrote:
SWMBO is complaining that the library is turning more and more to
ebooks (do away with the brick&mortar facilities and let amazon
act as the "library" -- some sort of contract they've hammered out).

She's not keen on giving up look/feel of paper. But, figures there's
no other option for some of these titles (if library has it in *any*
form, they will not process a request to find a "paper copy" at some
OTHER library in the next town, etc.)

I've moved much of my technical library to electronic form (simply
can't afford to keep all that paper on shelves, here!) and do so with
a "tablet PC". It gives me a decent screen size (~12") so that I can
view typical 8.5x11 pages/sheets in full size (assuming there is a half
inch margin on the page -- which the display doesn't need to reproduce!).

Also gives me color, the ability to make annotations with the pen,
support for external media, non-proprietary file formats AND other
utilities -- things that aren't usually present in an eReader (which
tries to be smaller, lighter and run for long periods off battery).

I offered to build her an identical machine but she's not keen on
the size (she's used to reading paperbacks or hard-bound editions
which typically don't have/need the larger page size that the materials
I read require). And, the things she reads tend not to have illustrations,
charts, "color", etc.

So, anyone with a fair bit of first-hand experience willing to share
observations as to what they like/dislike about *their* eReader
(make/model)? ISTR at least one unit only allowed you to put
materials onto it via a wireless link -- to a *vendor*! I'm not
sure how that will work with the library's offerings. Nor how
you can later "backup" those acquisitions onto some other media
(lest your eReader *fail*).

[These are all issues that my "solution" avoided...]

I've got the cheapest Kindle and even though the screen is only 7 inches
it is very readable because you put books in their format.

I'm sure their Kindle Fire is better as there is a touch screen and color.

Amazon will let you download the reader to any machine as they want to
sell books but there is plenty of free stuff from them or others, e.g.
the Gutenburg project - http://www.gutenberg.org/

Then there is free software where you can inter-convert formats for the
reader programs - http://calibre-ebook.com/

On 1/13/2016 1:02 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/13/2016 2:17 PM, Don Y wrote:
SWMBO is complaining that the library is turning more and more to
ebooks (do away with the brick&mortar facilities and let amazon
act as the "library" -- some sort of contract they've hammered out).

She's not keen on giving up look/feel of paper. But, figures there's
no other option for some of these titles (if library has it in *any*
form, they will not process a request to find a "paper copy" at some
OTHER library in the next town, etc.)

I've moved much of my technical library to electronic form (simply
can't afford to keep all that paper on shelves, here!) and do so with
a "tablet PC". It gives me a decent screen size (~12") so that I can
view typical 8.5x11 pages/sheets in full size (assuming there is a half
inch margin on the page -- which the display doesn't need to reproduce!).

Also gives me color, the ability to make annotations with the pen,
support for external media, non-proprietary file formats AND other
utilities -- things that aren't usually present in an eReader (which
tries to be smaller, lighter and run for long periods off battery).

I offered to build her an identical machine but she's not keen on
the size (she's used to reading paperbacks or hard-bound editions
which typically don't have/need the larger page size that the materials
I read require). And, the things she reads tend not to have illustrations,
charts, "color", etc.

So, anyone with a fair bit of first-hand experience willing to share
observations as to what they like/dislike about *their* eReader
(make/model)? ISTR at least one unit only allowed you to put
materials onto it via a wireless link -- to a *vendor*! I'm not
sure how that will work with the library's offerings. Nor how
you can later "backup" those acquisitions onto some other media
(lest your eReader *fail*).

[These are all issues that my "solution" avoided...]

I've got the cheapest Kindle and even though the screen is only 7 inches it is
very readable because you put books in their format.

Yes, for "novels" you can afford to reflow text somewhat arbitrarily -- no
illustrations that you have to shrink or "pan" to fit onto a smaller
display (or, one with lower resolution).

I'm sure their Kindle Fire is better as there is a touch screen and color.

I can't see the need for either -- if reading "novels". There's no/few
illustrations that could benefit from color (unlike my technical literature
which might use color to convey information). And, I can only see a
touch screen as a frill to allow for gestural "page turning".

Amazon will let you download the reader to any machine as they want to sell
books but there is plenty of free stuff from them or others, e.g. the Gutenburg
project - http://www.gutenberg.org/

But, can you freely move documents onto and off-of the reader? A friend
had me set up her nook some years back and the only way on/off the device
was via wireless and a connection to their "store".

Then there is free software where you can inter-convert formats for the reader
programs - http://calibre-ebook.com/

Yes, I already use that on my tablet PC as I have to address documents in
multiple formats (though I favor PDF for a variety of reasons).

Don Y writes:
On 1/13/2016 1:02 PM, Frank wrote:

But, can you freely move documents onto and off-of the reader? A friend
had me set up her nook some years back and the only way on/off the device
was via wireless and a connection to their "store".

That is not true for the Nook. I have two Nooks (epaper) and both
of them show up as a disk drive when plugged into a USB port and
you can copy epub's to and from them at will.

If you buy epubs from B&N via the wireless, you may or may not be
able to copy them off your nook (depends on firmware version and
amount of free built-in storage space).

B&N no longer lets a purchaser download the epub and sideload to the
nook, but you can buy from google play or baen or find them on
alt.books then sideload them.

On 1/13/2016 4:28 PM, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

B&N no longer lets a purchaser download the epub and sideload to the
nook, but you can buy from google play or baen or find them on
alt.books then sideload them.

http://www.baenebooks.com/
"Welcome to Baen Ebooks, purveyors of DRM-free ebooks. This means you
can enjoy your ebooks on as many eReaders as you choose for no
additional cost."
SF & Fantasy mostly. Their "Free Library" is here - check it out.
http://www.baenebooks.com/c-1-free-library.aspx

Susan
--

On 1/13/2016 3:29 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/13/2016 1:02 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/13/2016 2:17 PM, Don Y wrote:
SWMBO is complaining that the library is turning more and more to
ebooks (do away with the brick&mortar facilities and let amazon
act as the "library" -- some sort of contract they've hammered out).

She's not keen on giving up look/feel of paper. But, figures there's
no other option for some of these titles (if library has it in *any*
form, they will not process a request to find a "paper copy" at some
OTHER library in the next town, etc.)

I've moved much of my technical library to electronic form (simply
can't afford to keep all that paper on shelves, here!) and do so with
a "tablet PC". It gives me a decent screen size (~12") so that I can
view typical 8.5x11 pages/sheets in full size (assuming there is a half
inch margin on the page -- which the display doesn't need to
reproduce!).

Also gives me color, the ability to make annotations with the pen,
support for external media, non-proprietary file formats AND other
utilities -- things that aren't usually present in an eReader (which
tries to be smaller, lighter and run for long periods off battery).

I offered to build her an identical machine but she's not keen on
the size (she's used to reading paperbacks or hard-bound editions
which typically don't have/need the larger page size that the materials
I read require). And, the things she reads tend not to have
illustrations,
charts, "color", etc.

So, anyone with a fair bit of first-hand experience willing to share
observations as to what they like/dislike about *their* eReader
(make/model)? ISTR at least one unit only allowed you to put
materials onto it via a wireless link -- to a *vendor*! I'm not
sure how that will work with the library's offerings. Nor how
you can later "backup" those acquisitions onto some other media
(lest your eReader *fail*).

[These are all issues that my "solution" avoided...]

I've got the cheapest Kindle and even though the screen is only 7
inches it is
very readable because you put books in their format.

Yes, for "novels" you can afford to reflow text somewhat arbitrarily -- no
illustrations that you have to shrink or "pan" to fit onto a smaller
display (or, one with lower resolution).

I'm sure their Kindle Fire is better as there is a touch screen and
color.

I can't see the need for either -- if reading "novels". There's no/few
illustrations that could benefit from color (unlike my technical literature
which might use color to convey information). And, I can only see a
touch screen as a frill to allow for gestural "page turning".

Amazon will let you download the reader to any machine as they want to
sell
books but there is plenty of free stuff from them or others, e.g. the
Gutenburg
project - http://www.gutenberg.org/

But, can you freely move documents onto and off-of the reader? A friend
had me set up her nook some years back and the only way on/off the device
was via wireless and a connection to their "store".

Then there is free software where you can inter-convert formats for
the reader
programs - http://calibre-ebook.com/

Yes, I already use that on my tablet PC as I have to address documents in
multiple formats (though I favor PDF for a variety of reasons).

I download to my desktop and transfer them to the Kindle. Don't like
using Kindle or tablet to download as browsing is a PITA.

Don't know anything about the Nook but see that their format is .epub vs
..mobi for Kindle. My Kindle will read .mobi and .pdf but may do .epub
too. Calibre can inter-convert them. Most .pdf's are big for the
Kindle but I have a couple in the form of hunting maps on them.

On 1/13/16 6:37 PM, Frank wrote:


Don't know anything about the Nook but see that their format is .epub vs
.mobi for Kindle. My Kindle will read .mobi and .pdf but may do .epub
too. Calibre can inter-convert them. Most .pdf's are big for the
Kindle but I have a couple in the form of hunting maps on them.
I'd go with Kindle papewrite for general or recreational reading. I
spend a lot of time outside and you can read it perfectly even in
brightest sunlight. I haven't tried it for technical or other intensive
uses.
The main problem I have with the Nook is that Barnes and Noble owns
but doesn't quite know what they want to do with it. Just over the last
couple of years, they have said they love it, said they wanted to spin
it off into a separate company, said they didn't want to spin it off. I
am not sure I want to spend all that money on something even the owner
isn't sure it wants to deal with.

On 1/13/2016 7:59 PM, Kurt V. Ullman wrote:
On 1/13/16 6:37 PM, Frank wrote:


Don't know anything about the Nook but see that their format is .epub vs
.mobi for Kindle. My Kindle will read .mobi and .pdf but may do .epub
too. Calibre can inter-convert them. Most .pdf's are big for the
Kindle but I have a couple in the form of hunting maps on them.
I'd go with Kindle papewrite for general or recreational reading. I
spend a lot of time outside and you can read it perfectly even in
brightest sunlight. I haven't tried it for technical or other intensive
uses.
The main problem I have with the Nook is that Barnes and Noble owns
but doesn't quite know what they want to do with it. Just over the last
couple of years, they have said they love it, said they wanted to spin
it off into a separate company, said they didn't want to spin it off. I
am not sure I want to spend all that money on something even the owner
isn't sure it wants to deal with.


My Kindle is in my fanny pack and I read it when in a deer stand. Takes
up half the space of a paperback and is readable in bright light and
even at sunset.

At home, I prefer books in book form.

I know you can sign up with the county library and download books for
the Kindle over the internet but they treat it like you borrowed a
library book and it has to be renewed every two weeks. Not worth the
bother for me as I don't set a time limit on reading a book.

Friend used to go to library for books on tape which could be put on an
MP3 player. Think this could also be done on a tablet or Kindle Fire.

On 01/13/2016 01:29 PM, Don Y wrote:
I can't see the need for either -- if reading "novels". There's no/few
illustrations that could benefit from color (unlike my technical literature
which might use color to convey information). And, I can only see a
touch screen as a frill to allow for gestural "page turning".

You can subscribe to magazines and the color might make it more
enjoyable. I only get a few magazines and prefer the dead tree format
anyway.

On 1/13/2016 8:16 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 01/13/2016 01:29 PM, Don Y wrote:
I can't see the need for either -- if reading "novels". There's no/few
illustrations that could benefit from color (unlike my technical literature
which might use color to convey information). And, I can only see a
touch screen as a frill to allow for gestural "page turning".

You can subscribe to magazines and the color might make it more enjoyable.

Ah, OK. We don't have any magazine subscriptions. She just recently
commented on yet another attempt to get her to RE-subscribe to a magazine
she had years ago: "I saved the old issues and all they do is
recycle the same articles..."

I only get a few magazines and prefer the dead tree format anyway.

Ditto. I find that if I have to spend any time with a document,
I will print a copy -- then "recycle" the paper when I'm done with it.
Some of the datasheets for the components that I use might be 1000+ pp
so this leaves me cringing (even with a duplex printer, that's a whole
ream of paper!). But, there's something special about being able to
flip back and forth between relevant sections just by sticking a
finger "in" the document at the right spot(s).

[E.g., it may describe the device pinout in one chapter and details
of a specific *set* of pins in another; and details of yet another
set of pins in a third!]

OTOH, keeping paper originals of things eats up shelf space at an
incredible rate (a few feet per project)! So, digital forms for
"long term storage" seem to be best.

[E.g., I think my MULTICS manuals are about 2 feet of shelf space]

On 01/13/2016 08:41 PM, Don Y wrote:
Ah, OK. We don't have any magazine subscriptions. She just recently
commented on yet another attempt to get her to RE-subscribe to a magazine
she had years ago: "I saved the old issues and all they do is
recycle the same articles..."

I found that a long time ago except for the magazines covering a moving
target. It's rather like the school system; they start a beginning
class, work them through to more complex matters, and then restart the
cycle in a year or two.

I'm down to 'Circuit Cellar', 'Motorcycle Consumer News', and 'Guns &
Ammo'. I don't even remember subscribing to the last one. I certainly
haven't paid for it in years but it keeps coming like some of the trade
magazines.

On 1/13/2016 2:02 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/13/2016 2:17 PM, Don Y wrote:
SWMBO is complaining that the library is turning more and more to
ebooks (do away with the brick&mortar facilities and let amazon
act as the "library" -- some sort of contract they've hammered out).


[snip]


[These are all issues that my "solution" avoided...]

I've got the cheapest Kindle and even though the screen is only 7 inches
it is very readable because you put books in their format.

I'm sure their Kindle Fire is better as there is a touch screen and color.

Amazon will let you download the reader to any machine as they want to
sell books but there is plenty of free stuff from them or others, e.g.
the Gutenburg project - http://www.gutenberg.org/

Then there is free software where you can inter-convert formats for the
reader programs - http://calibre-ebook.com/

+1 on Calibre, Don. It's a FANTASTIC program. Also, if you have access
to the usenet (doh!) there are a number of binary groups there that post
books in the epub and mobi format. Regardless of what reader SWMBO
winds up with, Calibre will catalog them, convert them to the needed
format and load them to your device.

She's like paper books? Help her with the transition and recommend that
no matter what reader she buys, that she buys a "cover" for it. I went
with Barnes and Noble's Nook reader and was quite happy with it. Then I
bought an iPad 3 and have abandoned the Nooks in favor of the iPad.
Love it and works fine for me. With the cover you can hold the Nook or
iPad as if you were holding a book. Makes getting used to the eReader
very simple.

On 1/13/2016 7:51 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 1/13/2016 2:02 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/13/2016 2:17 PM, Don Y wrote:
SWMBO is complaining that the library is turning more and more to
ebooks (do away with the brick&mortar facilities and let amazon
act as the "library" -- some sort of contract they've hammered out).


[snip]


[These are all issues that my "solution" avoided...]

I've got the cheapest Kindle and even though the screen is only 7 inches
it is very readable because you put books in their format.

I'm sure their Kindle Fire is better as there is a touch screen and color.

Amazon will let you download the reader to any machine as they want to
sell books but there is plenty of free stuff from them or others, e.g.
the Gutenburg project - http://www.gutenberg.org/

Then there is free software where you can inter-convert formats for the
reader programs - http://calibre-ebook.com/

+1 on Calibre, Don. It's a FANTASTIC program.

Yes, as I mentioned in my reply to Frank (alongside this reply of yours),
I already use it on my tablet PC. My technical library is a hodge-podge
of different formats (cuz folks can't seem to PICK ONE! : ). I have
PDF, MOBI, EPUB, PS, DJVU, CHM, CBR, INFO, man(1) pages, etc. I've been
slowly trudging through it and converting everything to PDF -- so I can
just use a PDF reader to access all of that content.

Also, if you have access to the
usenet (doh!) there are a number of binary groups there that post books in the
epub and mobi format.

I don't think she is interested in accumulating ebooks. Rather, just
wants to be able to *access* them -- without being chained to a PC.
We've been steadily working on ridding ourselves of paper (books,
magazines, bank statements, financial records, canceled checks, etc.)
though she still has a rather large collection of "art" books
(probably 40 linear feet) and I still have (a similar amount) of
technical references that simply aren't available in other forms.

[OTOH, I managed to get rid of nearly 80 "xerox boxes" of paperbacks
over the years!]

Regardless of what reader SWMBO winds up with, Calibre
will catalog them, convert them to the needed format and load them to your device.

All she wants is to be able to grab a book from the library and *read* it.
With the *paper* books, this was easy: wait for book to arrive, check
it out, read it, return it -- done! No technology involved beyond
her library card.

But, it's clear the library is looking to shed staff and facilities
and moving to a virtual library is one big step in that direction
(I think we have ~20 branch libraries *in* town -- lots of staff
and facilities to maintain)

She's like paper books? Help her with the transition and recommend that no
matter what reader she buys, that she buys a "cover" for it. I went with
Barnes and Noble's Nook reader and was quite happy with it. Then I bought an
iPad 3 and have abandoned the Nooks in favor of the iPad. Love it and works

So, on the iPad, you have to invoke an *app* to get at the books?

fine for me. With the cover you can hold the Nook or iPad as if you were
holding a book. Makes getting used to the eReader very simple.

I don't understand why the "cover" makes a difference? E.g., with my tablet
PC, I just set it on my lap, counter/desk or against my propped up legs
(if reading in bed). Holding it in my arms would be tiring as it is
rather large...

I can't see how putting it *in* something would make it any better (?)

[Though I have a screen protector film on the display to keep the
pen from scratching the plastic]

On 1/13/2016 9:33 PM, Don Y wrote:

So, on the iPad, you have to invoke an *app* to get at the books?


Nope. I use Calibre to email an epub to a mail account accessed
exclusively on my iPad. I click on the attachment and select "Open in
iBook" (a native application on iOS) OR, if I am home and access the
home network, I just point Safari to the Calibre server and I can
search, browse, etc. all my books. Click on the one I want and tell
Safari to open it in iBooks.

Once you accept it either in email or Safari a copy is stored on the
iPad until such time as you delete it in iBooks.


fine for me. With the cover you can hold the Nook or iPad as if you were
holding a book. Makes getting used to the eReader very simple.

I don't understand why the "cover" makes a difference? E.g., with my
tablet
PC, I just set it on my lap, counter/desk or against my propped up legs
(if reading in bed). Holding it in my arms would be tiring as it is
rather large...

I can't see how putting it *in* something would make it any better (?)

Depends on the size of the tablet or reader I suppose. That tip was
given to me by a friend who suggested that having a cover to hold it
like a traditional book is a more natural transition to an ereader from
a paper book. It worked well for me, but, as always, YMMV

On 1/13/2016 9:22 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 1/13/2016 9:33 PM, Don Y wrote:

So, on the iPad, you have to invoke an *app* to get at the books?

Nope. I use Calibre to email an epub to a mail account accessed exclusively on
my iPad. I click on the attachment and select "Open in iBook" (a native
application on iOS)

This seems like a roundabout way of doing it (?)

Why aren't you just "copying" it to the iPad? Why go through the email
step? Is there no other way to move files onto the iPad? (dunno, never
used one)

OR, if I am home and access the home network, I just point
Safari to the Calibre server and I can search, browse, etc. all my books.
Click on the one I want and tell Safari to open it in iBooks.

I only use Calibre for (one-time) conversions. My library is mirrored
(currently on two drives, but that can change) as are most of my
"precious" files. But, I have a "distributed" RAID array, of sorts,
(too "involved" to discuss here) and just copy the file(s) of interest
onto whatever device needs them (e.g., the tablet PC if I am just
trying to read something)

Once you accept it either in email or Safari a copy is stored on the iPad until
such time as you delete it in iBooks.

So, what happens when you run out of disk? Can/do you move that copy off to a
backup archive?

fine for me. With the cover you can hold the Nook or iPad as if you were
holding a book. Makes getting used to the eReader very simple.

I don't understand why the "cover" makes a difference? E.g., with my
tablet
PC, I just set it on my lap, counter/desk or against my propped up legs
(if reading in bed). Holding it in my arms would be tiring as it is
rather large...

I can't see how putting it *in* something would make it any better (?)

Depends on the size of the tablet or reader I suppose. That tip was given to
me by a friend who suggested that having a cover to hold it like a traditional
book is a more natural transition to an ereader from a paper book. It worked
well for me, but, as always, YMMV

How is it "inadequate" without the cover? Too small? Too slippery?

I.e., does your iPad have/need a cover for similar reasons?

On 01/13/2016 08:33 PM, Don Y wrote:

I can't see how putting it *in* something would make it any better (?)

I tend to throw mine in a boat bag, etc, and the cover improves the
survivability, sort of like the neoprene sleeve on the tablet. The one I
have can also be used to stand the Kindle up like an easel.

On 1/13/2016 9:51 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 1/13/2016 2:02 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/13/2016 2:17 PM, Don Y wrote:
SWMBO is complaining that the library is turning more and more to
ebooks (do away with the brick&mortar facilities and let amazon
act as the "library" -- some sort of contract they've hammered out).


[snip]


[These are all issues that my "solution" avoided...]

I've got the cheapest Kindle and even though the screen is only 7 inches
it is very readable because you put books in their format.

I'm sure their Kindle Fire is better as there is a touch screen and
color.

Amazon will let you download the reader to any machine as they want to
sell books but there is plenty of free stuff from them or others, e.g.
the Gutenburg project - http://www.gutenberg.org/

Then there is free software where you can inter-convert formats for the
reader programs - http://calibre-ebook.com/

+1 on Calibre, Don. It's a FANTASTIC program. Also, if you have access
to the usenet (doh!) there are a number of binary groups there that post
books in the epub and mobi format. Regardless of what reader SWMBO
winds up with, Calibre will catalog them, convert them to the needed
format and load them to your device.

She's like paper books? Help her with the transition and recommend that
no matter what reader she buys, that she buys a "cover" for it. I went
with Barnes and Noble's Nook reader and was quite happy with it. Then I
bought an iPad 3 and have abandoned the Nooks in favor of the iPad. Love
it and works fine for me. With the cover you can hold the Nook or iPad
as if you were holding a book. Makes getting used to the eReader very
simple.



I would avoid trying to download a free copy of somebody's swiped copy
of a book normally for sale. Too much potential for a malicious virus.

On 1/14/2016 6:59 AM, Frank wrote:

I would avoid trying to download a free copy of somebody's swiped copy of a
book normally for sale. Too much potential for a malicious virus.

Books shouldn't (implicitly) contain executables. So, the only potential
for an "infection" would be a buggy reader implementation. In much
the same way that *photos* don't (implicitly) contain code and any
exploits are the result of poor "viewer" implementations.

Contrast this with PDF's -- which *do* contain "code" (albeit postscript
and/or adobe script).

The "swiped copy" issue should be one of morality/legality. Would you
want someone stealing *your* work?

On 1/14/2016 9:49 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/14/2016 6:59 AM, Frank wrote:

I would avoid trying to download a free copy of somebody's swiped copy
of a
book normally for sale. Too much potential for a malicious virus.

Books shouldn't (implicitly) contain executables. So, the only potential
for an "infection" would be a buggy reader implementation. In much
the same way that *photos* don't (implicitly) contain code and any
exploits are the result of poor "viewer" implementations.

Contrast this with PDF's -- which *do* contain "code" (albeit postscript
and/or adobe script).

The "swiped copy" issue should be one of morality/legality. Would you
want someone stealing *your* work?

Nobody will say, I stole this. They just say, here's a free-be. In the
beginning I googled for "free ebooks" and could see where they wanted to
take me and said, no thanks.

BTW, working in industry, I did have some steal my stuff. They took
documents I created and replaced my name with theirs. I was annoyed but
the company was paying me.

Don Y wrote:
SWMBO is complaining that the library is turning more and more to
ebooks (do away with the brick&mortar facilities and let amazon
act as the "library" -- some sort of contract they've hammered out).

She's not keen on giving up look/feel of paper. But, figures there's
no other option for some of these titles (if library has it in *any*
form, they will not process a request to find a "paper copy" at some
OTHER library in the next town, etc.)

I've moved much of my technical library to electronic form (simply
can't afford to keep all that paper on shelves, here!) and do so with
a "tablet PC". It gives me a decent screen size (~12") so that I can
view typical 8.5x11 pages/sheets in full size (assuming there is a half
inch margin on the page -- which the display doesn't need to reproduce!).

Also gives me color, the ability to make annotations with the pen,
support for external media, non-proprietary file formats AND other
utilities -- things that aren't usually present in an eReader (which
tries to be smaller, lighter and run for long periods off battery).

I offered to build her an identical machine but she's not keen on
the size (she's used to reading paperbacks or hard-bound editions
which typically don't have/need the larger page size that the materials
I read require). And, the things she reads tend not to have illustrations,
charts, "color", etc.

So, anyone with a fair bit of first-hand experience willing to share
observations as to what they like/dislike about *their* eReader
(make/model)? ISTR at least one unit only allowed you to put
materials onto it via a wireless link -- to a *vendor*! I'm not
sure how that will work with the library's offerings. Nor how
you can later "backup" those acquisitions onto some other media
(lest your eReader *fail*).

[These are all issues that my "solution" avoided...]

I used to have Kobo but iPAD has an app for eReader.
I have a Kindle now.

On 1/13/2016 2:17 PM, Don Y wrote:


Also gives me color, the ability to make annotations with the pen,
support for external media, non-proprietary file formats AND other
utilities -- things that aren't usually present in an eReader (which
tries to be smaller, lighter and run for long periods off battery).

I offered to build her an identical machine but she's not keen on
the size (she's used to reading paperbacks or hard-bound editions
which typically don't have/need the larger page size that the materials
I read require). And, the things she reads tend not to have illustrations,
charts, "color", etc.

So, anyone with a fair bit of first-hand experience willing to share
observations as to what they like/dislike about *their* eReader
(make/model)? ISTR at least one unit only allowed you to put
materials onto it via a wireless link -- to a *vendor*! I'm not
sure how that will work with the library's offerings. Nor how
you can later "backup" those acquisitions onto some other media
(lest your eReader *fail*).

[These are all issues that my "solution" avoided...]


Tablet PC is too big for a reader. My wife has a Kobo, Nook, Kindle.
While she likes them all, her favorite is the Kindle Fire with 8" screen.

You books are saved in a library and are available to be read on most
any device. The present book she is reading can be synced with her
phone in seconds and she can continue reading where she left off.

On 1/13/2016 2:58 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Tablet PC is too big for a reader.

That depends on what you are reading. I'd be hard-pressed to read some
of my technical documents on an 8" screen. I'd either be forced to
put on reading glasses to try to read all the "tiny print" in some
of the tables and illustrations; or, have to pan back and forth to read
individual items -- then figure out which row/column I happened to
have been in, at the time.

Being able to see an 8.5x11 sheet of paper *as* an 8.5x11 sheet of paper
is a huge win.

If you're only reading novels (no page formatting/layout information
preserved in the document), you can afford a smaller screen -- as long
as the imagery remains crisp at the scale you prefer reading.

When I played with my friend's nook, it seemed that I was constantly
"flipping pages" (I read very fast) while that's rarely the case with
the larger (more content) pages on my tablet PC (or, if reading
PDF's on a PC -- where I can see an entire page on the screen
without having to scroll down to the bottom of the first column, then
*up* to the top of the next, etc.)

My wife has a Kobo, Nook, Kindle. While she
likes them all, her favorite is the Kindle Fire with 8" screen.

You books are saved in a library and are available to be read on most any
device. The present book she is reading can be synced with her phone in
seconds and she can continue reading where she left off.

Is the "library" *off* the device? And *not* requiring a connection
to some cloud service? (We don't use cell phones) E.g., I can
slap a PC card, SD card, thumb drive, etc. into my tablet PC to gain
access to other parts of my document collection (if I don't want to
use the network connection -- wired or wireless). So, the tablet PC
doesn't need to have a huge disk to access the ~2TB of documents
that I maintain...

On 01/13/2016 04:11 PM, Don Y wrote:
Is the "library" *off* the device? And *not* requiring a connection
to some cloud service? (

Yes, the files are stored locally. I only enable the wireless connection
when I'm getting a new book from Amazon.

On 1/13/2016 10:19 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 01/13/2016 04:11 PM, Don Y wrote:
Is the "library" *off* the device? And *not* requiring a connection
to some cloud service? (

Yes, the files are stored locally. I only enable the wireless connection
when I'm getting a new book from Amazon.

Actually both. If you run out of room you can leave books on the
Amazon (or B&N) server and get it again later.

On 1/13/2016 8:19 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 01/13/2016 04:11 PM, Don Y wrote:
Is the "library" *off* the device? And *not* requiring a connection
to some cloud service? (

Yes, the files are stored locally. I only enable the wireless connection when
I'm getting a new book from Amazon.

So, what happens when the device is "full"?

On 01/14/2016 12:09 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/13/2016 8:19 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 01/13/2016 04:11 PM, Don Y wrote:
Is the "library" *off* the device? And *not* requiring a connection
to some cloud service? (

Yes, the files are stored locally. I only enable the wireless
connection when
I'm getting a new book from Amazon.

So, what happens when the device is "full"?

I haven't gotten there yet after five years or so but you just start
deleting title from the device.

On 1/14/2016 2:09 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/13/2016 8:19 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 01/13/2016 04:11 PM, Don Y wrote:
Is the "library" *off* the device? And *not* requiring a connection
to some cloud service? (

Yes, the files are stored locally. I only enable the wireless
connection when
I'm getting a new book from Amazon.

So, what happens when the device is "full"?

You archive them to the B&N or Amazon Library. Can always dl them again
if you want them. Once you buy them they are yours forever but you do
not have to keep them on your device..

Don Y wrote:

SWMBO is complaining that the library is turning more and more to
ebooks (do away with the brick&mortar facilities and let amazon
act as the "library" -- some sort of contract they've hammered out).

She's not keen on giving up look/feel of paper. But, figures there's
no other option for some of these titles (if library has it in *any*
form, they will not process a request to find a "paper copy" at some
OTHER library in the next town, etc.)

I've moved much of my technical library to electronic form (simply
can't afford to keep all that paper on shelves, here!) and do so with
a "tablet PC". It gives me a decent screen size (~12") so that I can
view typical 8.5x11 pages/sheets in full size (assuming there is a half
inch margin on the page -- which the display doesn't need to reproduce!).

Also gives me color, the ability to make annotations with the pen,
support for external media, non-proprietary file formats AND other
utilities -- things that aren't usually present in an eReader (which
tries to be smaller, lighter and run for long periods off battery).

I offered to build her an identical machine but she's not keen on
the size (she's used to reading paperbacks or hard-bound editions
which typically don't have/need the larger page size that the materials
I read require). And, the things she reads tend not to have illustrations,
charts, "color", etc.

So, anyone with a fair bit of first-hand experience willing to share
observations as to what they like/dislike about *their* eReader
(make/model)? ISTR at least one unit only allowed you to put
materials onto it via a wireless link -- to a *vendor*! I'm not
sure how that will work with the library's offerings. Nor how
you can later "backup" those acquisitions onto some other media
(lest your eReader *fail*).

[These are all issues that my "solution" avoided...]

I have a Kindle Paperwhite with their cover. I had a Kindle keyboard
earlier. I really like the Paperwhite with it's built in back light.
I also like the sync feature since there are times I read on my
Microsoft Surface and on my Android phone.

This is the one that I have:
http://smile.amazon.com/Kindle-Paperwhite-High-Resolution-Display-Built-/dp/B00OQVZDJM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1452725353&sr=8-3&keywords=kindle
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
My local Weather http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...p?ID=KOKMUSTA4

On 1/13/2016 3:52 PM, Jim Rusling wrote:
I have a Kindle Paperwhite with their cover.

"cover"? That's just to protect the device? (I see violet/blue/yellow
covers about halfway down that page)

I had a Kindle keyboard earlier.

What value was there to having alphanumeric entry on the device?
Is this mainly for searching for titles, passages, etc.?

I really like the Paperwhite with it's built in back light.

Yes, I think that's essential. I was laid up for a while and
found the tablet PC to be a very effective way for me to keep working
without having to sit up, etc. As bedrooms aren't known for having
good reading/work light, the tablet made up for it. The pen
also made it easy for me to make notations without having to
arrange for a writing surface *in* the bed. The handwriting
recognition was surprisingly good (cut down on the need for the
on-screen keyboard).

I also like the sync feature since there are times I read on my
Microsoft Surface and on my Android phone.

She won't be using anything else to read -- no phones and she
despises doing anything "recreational" sitting at a computer.

This is the one that I have:
http://smile.amazon.com/Kindle-Paperwhite-High-Resolution-Display-Built-/dp/B00OQVZDJM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1452725353&sr=8-3&keywords=kindle

The page size seems about the same as that of a paperback
("pocketbook"). If you adjust the font size to what you would
encounter on a paperback print page, how readable is it?
I.e., do you have to enlarge the text (font) to gain readability
(resulting in less text on the "page")?

On 01/13/2016 04:29 PM, Don Y wrote:
What value was there to having alphanumeric entry on the device?
Is this mainly for searching for titles, passages, etc.?

Yes, but I seldom use it. You can make notes also but I seldom do that
ever with paper books. The Paperwhite has a virtual keyboard. One thing
the PW doesn't have afaik is the text to speech or audio books but I
never used that feature anyway.

On 1/13/2016 8:26 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 01/13/2016 04:29 PM, Don Y wrote:
What value was there to having alphanumeric entry on the device?
Is this mainly for searching for titles, passages, etc.?

Yes, but I seldom use it.

How do you find a specific title? Or, are there only a small number of
titles on the device at any given time (e.g., dozens instead of thousands)?

You can make notes also but I seldom do that ever
with paper books. The Paperwhite has a virtual keyboard.

I can't see SWMBO using that sort of feature. She's reading for
entertainment, not "research". The books that she "studies" are
all dead tree implementations so she can put post-it notes in
the pages, etc.

I use PDF's for my archive because I can put lots of stuff in
that container alongside the "document": illustrations, sounds,
animations, source/object code, etc.

And, I can augment documents -- include notes about errors I've found
or clarifications of the existing material, etc. (having a pen interface
lets me include sketches in those notes!)

One thing the PW
doesn't have afaik is the text to speech or audio books but I never used that
feature anyway.

Yeah, I don't deal well with audio books. I don't "digest" material as
well when it is read to me. And, I think random access is more tedious;
if I want to skip back a paragraph (or whatever) to doublecheck how
something mentioned there fits with something I'm reading *here*, it's
easier to just glance up and hunt for the information visually.

I think the same sort of thing applies to dead tree documents; you have
a visual memory of where it was on the page, verso/recto, etc. and can
flip through hunting for it based on those remembered criteria.

On 01/13/2016 11:25 PM, Don Y wrote:
How do you find a specific title? Or, are there only a small number of
titles on the device at any given time (e.g., dozens instead of thousands)?

That's the problem that I hope has been resolved with the new devices. I
haven't found a good way to organize either by topic or a simple
read/unread. There are a series of small dots that indicate how much
you've read but they require carefukl attention to differentiate.

Yeah, I don't deal well with audio books. I don't "digest" material as
well when it is read to me. And, I think random access is more tedious;
if I want to skip back a paragraph (or whatever) to doublecheck how
something mentioned there fits with something I'm reading *here*, it's
easier to just glance up and hunt for the information visually.

I particularly dislike the current trend to consider webinars
'documentation'. It's the lazy way out and my mind tends to wander when
people ramble on.

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 5:29:11 PM UTC-6, Don Y wrote:
On 1/13/2016 3:52 PM, Jim Rusling wrote:
I have a Kindle Paperwhite with their cover.

"cover"? That's just to protect the device? (I see violet/blue/yellow
covers about halfway down that page)

I had a Kindle keyboard earlier.

What value was there to having alphanumeric entry on the device?
Is this mainly for searching for titles, passages, etc.?

I really like the Paperwhite with it's built in back light.

Yes, I think that's essential. I was laid up for a while and
found the tablet PC to be a very effective way for me to keep working
without having to sit up, etc. As bedrooms aren't known for having
good reading/work light, the tablet made up for it. The pen
also made it easy for me to make notations without having to
arrange for a writing surface *in* the bed. The handwriting
recognition was surprisingly good (cut down on the need for the
on-screen keyboard).

I also like the sync feature since there are times I read on my
Microsoft Surface and on my Android phone.

She won't be using anything else to read -- no phones and she
despises doing anything "recreational" sitting at a computer.

This is the one that I have:
http://smile.amazon.com/Kindle-Paperwhite-High-Resolution-Display-Built-/dp/B00OQVZDJM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1452725353&sr=8-3&keywords=kindle

The page size seems about the same as that of a paperback
("pocketbook"). If you adjust the font size to what you would
encounter on a paperback print page, how readable is it?
I.e., do you have to enlarge the text (font) to gain readability
(resulting in less text on the "page")?

I remember the days I took a novel or newspaper to the bathroom when I had to drop a load of Ready Mix. Now I take a tablet so I can read Email, listen to streaming radio stations or watch YouTube videos. A tablet is so much more versatile than paper. ^__^

[8~{} Uncle Concrete Monster

On 1/13/2016 2:17 PM, Don Y wrote:

SWMBO is complaining that the library is turning more and more to
ebooks (do away with the brick&mortar facilities and let amazon
act as the "library" -- some sort of contract they've hammered out).

big snip

First things first. . .

https://www.overdrive.com/
The OverDrive app is one of the top-rated eBook apps available for iOS,
Android, Chromebook, Mac OS, Windows, and Windows Phone.

I suggest you go to YOUR library's site and see what they have to say
about HOW you can read the type(s) of ebooks they offer.

Susan
--

On 1/13/2016 5:56 PM, Susan Bugher wrote:
First things first. . .

https://www.overdrive.com/
The OverDrive app is one of the top-rated eBook apps available for iOS,
Android, Chromebook, Mac OS, Windows, and Windows Phone.

I suggest you go to YOUR library's site and see what they have to say about HOW
you can read the type(s) of ebooks they offer.

Virtually all devices are supported -- along with PC/Mac "computers".
As she is NOT interested in reading on a computer (otherwise, any of the
desktops, laptops, tablets or other "appliances" that we have would be
acceptable options), this means getting a *device* that she can use to
fill the role that a print *book* would have filled.

On 2016-01-13 7:52 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/13/2016 5:56 PM, Susan Bugher wrote:
First things first. . .

https://www.overdrive.com/
The OverDrive app is one of the top-rated eBook apps available for iOS,
Android, Chromebook, Mac OS, Windows, and Windows Phone.

I suggest you go to YOUR library's site and see what they have to say
about HOW
you can read the type(s) of ebooks they offer.

Virtually all devices are supported -- along with PC/Mac "computers".
As she is NOT interested in reading on a computer (otherwise, any of the
desktops, laptops, tablets or other "appliances" that we have would be
acceptable options), this means getting a *device* that she can use to
fill the role that a print *book* would have filled.

Kobo Aura H2O, waterproof, dustproof 6.8" backlit screen. I have read
18,000 pages last quarter alone. Coming up to it's first anniversay of
when I purchased it it and love it.

This is my answer to replacing my paperback library since I have read
them all to tatters

(Buy the case for it as well).




--

On 1/13/2016 8:14 PM, Idlehands wrote:
On 2016-01-13 7:52 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/13/2016 5:56 PM, Susan Bugher wrote:
First things first. . .

https://www.overdrive.com/
The OverDrive app is one of the top-rated eBook apps available for iOS,
Android, Chromebook, Mac OS, Windows, and Windows Phone.

I suggest you go to YOUR library's site and see what they have to say
about HOW
you can read the type(s) of ebooks they offer.

Virtually all devices are supported -- along with PC/Mac "computers".
As she is NOT interested in reading on a computer (otherwise, any of the
desktops, laptops, tablets or other "appliances" that we have would be
acceptable options), this means getting a *device* that she can use to
fill the role that a print *book* would have filled.

Kobo Aura H2O, waterproof, dustproof 6.8" backlit screen. I have read 18,000
pages last quarter alone. Coming up to it's first anniversay of when I
purchased it it and love it.

How do ebook pages compare to print pages? E.g., can you provide a count
for some (popular) title that I could contrast with a print version?
And, does page count vary based on (chosen) font size?

For example, a recent read (for me) was _Snow Crash_ -- just under 500pp
in an ~8x10" format.

This is my answer to replacing my paperback library since I have read them all
to tatters

I've kept about 4 xerox boxes of paperbacks -- those that I reread the
most often or that have some other sentimental attachment. Or, that
are hard to find in other forms or lose much of their appeal in non-paper
forms (e.g., _Letters from the Earth_ --
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/twain/letearth.htm). Or, have quirky little
illustrations that complement the
"read".

A E van Vogt is my favorite science fiction author (I suspect I have every
title that he's written -- even reissues under different titles!). When
I encounter one of his titles at a used bookstore (increasingly rare),
I simply buy it, reread it and donate it (if I've already got a better
copy in storage). This allows me to reread without having to "wear"
titles out.

(Having said that, some titles simply don't hold up to use; e.g., _The
Yum Yum Book_ was printed on very "stiff" paper so the pages *break* off!)

(Buy the case for it as well).

On 2016-01-14 8:07 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/13/2016 8:14 PM, Idlehands wrote:
On 2016-01-13 7:52 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/13/2016 5:56 PM, Susan Bugher wrote:
First things first. . .

https://www.overdrive.com/
The OverDrive app is one of the top-rated eBook apps available for iOS,
Android, Chromebook, Mac OS, Windows, and Windows Phone.

I suggest you go to YOUR library's site and see what they have to say
about HOW
you can read the type(s) of ebooks they offer.

Virtually all devices are supported -- along with PC/Mac "computers".
As she is NOT interested in reading on a computer (otherwise, any of the
desktops, laptops, tablets or other "appliances" that we have would be
acceptable options), this means getting a *device* that she can use to
fill the role that a print *book* would have filled.

Kobo Aura H2O, waterproof, dustproof 6.8" backlit screen. I have read
18,000
pages last quarter alone. Coming up to it's first anniversay of when I
purchased it it and love it.

How do ebook pages compare to print pages? E.g., can you provide a count
for some (popular) title that I could contrast with a print version?
And, does page count vary based on (chosen) font size?

For example, a recent read (for me) was _Snow Crash_ -- just under 500pp
in an ~8x10" format.


No idea, it's just a stat provided by my Kobo, I just read, I don't
worry about the comparisons.

This is my answer to replacing my paperback library since I have read
them all
to tatters

I've kept about 4 xerox boxes of paperbacks -- those that I reread the
most often or that have some other sentimental attachment. Or, that
are hard to find in other forms or lose much of their appeal in non-paper
forms (e.g., _Letters from the Earth_ --
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/twain/letearth.htm). Or, have quirky
little illustrations that complement the
"read".

A E van Vogt is my favorite science fiction author (I suspect I have every
title that he's written -- even reissues under different titles!). When
I encounter one of his titles at a used bookstore (increasingly rare),
I simply buy it, reread it and donate it (if I've already got a better
copy in storage). This allows me to reread without having to "wear"
titles out.

(Having said that, some titles simply don't hold up to use; e.g., _The
Yum Yum Book_ was printed on very "stiff" paper so the pages *break* off!)

(Buy the case for it as well).



--

On 01/14/2016 08:07 AM, Don Y wrote:

How do ebook pages compare to print pages? E.g., can you provide a count
for some (popular) title that I could contrast with a print version?
And, does page count vary based on (chosen) font size?

Yes, if you choose a larger or smaller font the page is reflowed. There
is a percentage given but not a page count.

This is really apples and codfish since I don't have a book as small as
the Kindle screen, but a Per Wahloo detective story in a English
paperback has about 300 words on a full page. The paperback is 8x5 with
a fairly dense text format. A Asa Larsson mystery (in German) on the
Kindle has about 160 but the Kindle screen is 5x3.5. An English novel
with a little more dialog to break up the page was 150.

I'm not sure it's a meaningful metric. The percentage is equivalent to
looking at a paper book and gauging how far along you are. I believe the
newer models try to predict how long it will take you to finish based on
your reading rate.

On 1/13/2016 9:52 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 1/13/2016 5:56 PM, Susan Bugher wrote:

First things first. . .

https://www.overdrive.com/
The OverDrive app is one of the top-rated eBook apps available for iOS,
Android, Chromebook, Mac OS, Windows, and Windows Phone.

I suggest you go to YOUR library's site and see what they have to say
about HOW
you can read the type(s) of ebooks they offer.

Virtually all devices are supported -- along with PC/Mac "computers".
As she is NOT interested in reading on a computer (otherwise, any of the
desktops, laptops, tablets or other "appliances" that we have would be
acceptable options), this means getting a *device* that she can use to
fill the role that a print *book* would have filled.

I'm a fan of ebooks (read about one day) but I seldom borrow ebooks from
my local library because the books I'd like to read are seldom available
- they don't offer them or there are 90 people "on reserve" ahead of me
(YMMV). IMO your wife should try borrowing some books on a device your
already own before you spend money on a new device.

I did a bit more reading about supported devices for OverDrive. I have
two Nooks and it appears neither of them will work with the OverDrive app ..

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/overdrive-overdrive-inc/1120365790;jsessionid=F27AE30EF7C891A2EEB916A04846 8DEE.prodny_store01-atgap10?ean=2940043354334#nok-dapps

"Borrow eBooks, audiobooks, and streaming video from your library using
OverDrive on your NOOK."

quote requirements
NOOK Device

Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 NOOK 7.0
NOOK by Samsung [Tab 4 10.1, S2 & E]
NOOK HD Tablet
NOOK HD+ Tablet
/quote

Current Nook offerings at B&N:
http://nook.barnesandnoble.com/u/nook/379003208.
"NOOK GlowLight Plus™" is NOT on the list. of Overdrive supported apps.

Susan
--