I have two electric pumps, with two separate level sensing switches, so one pump normally runs, and one is a backup to turn on in case the water level rises about 3 inches higher than the first pump setting. I also have a water operated pump that is set to turn on about 3 inches above the second electric pump, in case both electric pumps fail or a failure of the mains AC. So far I have never needed the water operated pump, but there is peace of mind knowing that it is there in case of a prolonged power failure. I do test the pumps about once a year by disconnecting the AC power until the water pump operates, and then once is is going, I turn on the power and check that both electric pumps do work.

wrote:
I have two electric pumps, with two separate level sensing switches, so one pump normally runs, and one is a backup to turn on in case the water level rises about 3 inches higher than the first pump setting. I also have a water operated pump that is set to turn on about 3 inches above the second electric pump, in case both electric pumps fail or a failure of the mains AC. So far I have never needed the water operated pump, but there is peace of mind knowing that it is there in case of a prolonged power failure. I do test the pumps about once a year by disconnecting the AC power until the water pump operates, and then once is is going, I turn on the power and check that both electric pumps do work.

A question, sump pump users, do you have back up power?
My daughter and SIL installed sump pump with battery and gen set back up
power. Few years ago flood hit their neighborhood. When power went out
whole house got flooded causing more than 100G damage. Luckily insurance
covered every thing per market value. As a result they have new pump
system with back up power.

On 12/24/2015 11:08 PM, wrote:
I have two electric pumps, with two separate level sensing switches, so one
pump normally runs, and one is a backup to turn on in case the water level
rises about 3 inches higher than the first pump setting. I also have a
water operated pump that is set to turn on about 3 inches above the second
electric pump, in case both electric pumps fail or a failure of the mains
AC. So far I have never needed the water operated pump, but there is peace
of mind knowing that it is there in case of a prolonged power failure. I do
test the pumps about once a year by disconnecting the AC power until the
water pump operates, and then once is is going, I turn on the power and
check that both electric pumps do work.

Do you check their *efficacy*? Or, just "that they work" (make noise
and appear to move water)? Impellers often get "gunked up" over
time so the motor can be running (or trying to) but no/little water
is moving.

On 12/25/2015 1:21 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
A question, sump pump users, do you have back up power?
My daughter and SIL installed sump pump with battery and gen set back up
power. Few years ago flood hit their neighborhood. When power went out
whole house got flooded causing more than 100G damage. Luckily insurance
covered every thing per market value. As a result they have new pump
system with back up power.

So, your daughter installs a generator and battery
sump, and THEN they have a flood? That is so
inconvenient. Please report what was the failed
brand, and what is the good brand of new pump
system that actually works.

Many readers of this list will want to know what
brand to avoid, and what to reccomend.

My parents house relies on a sump pump. The only
backup is the generator in the garage that hasn't
been run in many years.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Friday, December 25, 2015 at 2:28:07 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/25/2015 1:21 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
A question, sump pump users, do you have back up power?
My daughter and SIL installed sump pump with battery and gen set back up
power. Few years ago flood hit their neighborhood. When power went out
whole house got flooded causing more than 100G damage. Luckily insurance
covered every thing per market value. As a result they have new pump
system with back up power.

So, your daughter installs a generator and battery
sump, and THEN they have a flood? That is so
inconvenient. Please report what was the failed
brand, and what is the good brand of new pump
system that actually works.



Maybe it was the daughter and SIL that failed and they couldn't
figure out what to do.

On 12/25/2015 7:36 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, December 25, 2015 at 2:28:07 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/25/2015 1:21 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
A question, sump pump users, do you have back up power?
My daughter and SIL installed sump pump with battery and gen set back up
power. Few years ago flood hit their neighborhood. When power went out
whole house got flooded causing more than 100G damage. Luckily insurance
covered every thing per market value. As a result they have new pump
system with back up power.

So, your daughter installs a generator and battery
sump, and THEN they have a flood? That is so
inconvenient. Please report what was the failed
brand, and what is the good brand of new pump
system that actually works.



Maybe it was the daughter and SIL that failed and they couldn't
figure out what to do.


Or a flood of magnitude beyond what a pump can handle. If the water
rises 2' above the generator you are SOL anyway.

On Friday, December 25, 2015 at 9:06:14 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/25/2015 7:36 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, December 25, 2015 at 2:28:07 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/25/2015 1:21 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
A question, sump pump users, do you have back up power?
My daughter and SIL installed sump pump with battery and gen set back up
power. Few years ago flood hit their neighborhood. When power went out
whole house got flooded causing more than 100G damage. Luckily insurance
covered every thing per market value. As a result they have new pump
system with back up power.

So, your daughter installs a generator and battery
sump, and THEN they have a flood? That is so
inconvenient. Please report what was the failed
brand, and what is the good brand of new pump
system that actually works.



Maybe it was the daughter and SIL that failed and they couldn't
figure out what to do.


Or a flood of magnitude beyond what a pump can handle. If the water
rises 2' above the generator you are SOL anyway.

we had a 100 year storm, people who were home spent 2 days bailing their sumps.

altogether unnecessary....... since most homes sith well above streets, they could of put in a overflow line....

to just drain the excess water if the pump fails for any reason

replying to Don Y , GeoEngineering wrote:
blockedofcourse wrote:

Do you check their *efficacy*? Or, just "that they work" (make noise
and appear to move water)? Impellers often get "gunked up" over
time so the motor can be running (or trying to) but no/little water
is moving.



Efficiency. I would venture a guess and say that the average home owner
would not be able to gage a pump's efficiency beyond the bigger the
efficiency number the better it is. And even if I had the background to be
able make sense of how much fluid is being moved, in comparison to the
amount of electricity that is being expended, what would I do with this ?
If I chose a pump which was rated at a higher efficiency, above a pump
rated at a lower efficiency,,, what am I really choosing? Because what I
am really concerned with is the flow rate of the pump, not how little
electricity it is using at a given flow rate. If I found an aquarium pump
that had a 100 percent efficiency but it only moved a tea cup of water a
minute,, what use is that? For most of us, our electricity is supplied at
whatever rate we use it, of course, within a given range. And how would I
really be able to compare my "gunked up" pump flow rate, to the "un-gunked
up" flow rate? What home owner would be able to place a flow meter on the
pump output, or even put a current meter on the electric line feeding the
pump,,, much less, do this "before" and "after", and be able to make a
judgement based on the pumps efficiency which excluded all the other
factors that have a bearing on the efficiency? Making a decision that,
"my pump isn't doing enough" , would be as far as we need to go to decide
we need a better pump, whether that means a bigger pump, or a higher flow
rate, or both. When I hear that the pump is running, and I can see the
water level in the sump going down, then it's working. My pump is
hard-piped into the sump, so even picking it up to visually check the
impeller would be an issue,, not to mention, the amount of time to remove,
and then re-install it would be way longer than the amount of time it
takes for the sump to fill up. I'd be knee deep in no time. It's true
that, eventually we need to replace the pump. Sometimes there is "gunk"
that clogs things up,, but it's not like "gunk" only adheres to impellers.
If some type of material is building up,, it's probably building up all
throughout the system, pipes, pump, and sump.

The problem I have with the answers that get posted on these forums is
that the answers are being posted in a vacuum of not enough details
surrounding the original questions. It's easy to say, that the proper way
to get rid of the water is to pipe it across the front lawn and into the
sewer. But these very specific answers don't address the varied and
sometimes complicated situations that present themselves. Things like, the
house is 60 years old, and whatever they did with water back then, may be
different than what we should do now,,,, and some basements are dugout
after the house was built, so having the proper lines isn't always an
option. Not to mention, the cost of doing the exact right thing at any
given time,, not all of us have an unlimited supply of money to address a
problem with the latest technology nor the with expert advice. Sometimes a
home owner is doing the best they can with what they have to work with,
and the fact that they listed the flow rate of their pump incorrectly,,
and then he gets slammed because he doesn't realize that the unrealistic
flow rate looks unusual to some who have experience and see immediately
that the flow rate is way too big.

In the same way that water powered pumps are described as the end all and
be all of pump backups, none one mentions that if you live in an area
that's been around for say,, hundreds of years,, and the water systems
though out the area regularly has breaks that cause water outages that
last for days and days,, well then, water powered pumps are of little
value. As opposed to the battery backups that,, use a car battery, and
even if the battery died, I could swap it out in my car for a recharge
while the car battery is running the battery backup pump.



--

On Friday, December 25, 2015 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-5, GeoEngineering wrote:
replying to Don Y , GeoEngineering wrote:
blockedofcourse wrote:

Do you check their *efficacy*? Or, just "that they work" (make noise
and appear to move water)? Impellers often get "gunked up" over
time so the motor can be running (or trying to) but no/little water
is moving.



Efficiency. I would venture a guess and say that the average home owner
would not be able to gage a pump's efficiency beyond the bigger the
efficiency number the better it is. And even if I had the background to be
able make sense of how much fluid is being moved, in comparison to the
amount of electricity that is being expended, what would I do with this ?

I think he posted what he meant, "efficacy", not "efficiency". I don't
even recall seeing energy efficiency numbers posted for sump pumps.



If I chose a pump which was rated at a higher efficiency, above a pump
rated at a lower efficiency,,, what am I really choosing? Because what I
am really concerned with is the flow rate of the pump, not how little
electricity it is using at a given flow rate. If I found an aquarium pump
that had a 100 percent efficiency but it only moved a tea cup of water a
minute,, what use is that? For most of us, our electricity is supplied at
whatever rate we use it, of course, within a given range. And how would I
really be able to compare my "gunked up" pump flow rate, to the "un-gunked
up" flow rate? What home owner would be able to place a flow meter on the
pump output, or even put a current meter on the electric line feeding the
pump,,, much less, do this "before" and "after", and be able to make a
judgement based on the pumps efficiency which excluded all the other
factors that have a bearing on the efficiency? Making a decision that,
"my pump isn't doing enough" , would be as far as we need to go to decide
we need a better pump, whether that means a bigger pump, or a higher flow
rate, or both. When I hear that the pump is running, and I can see the
water level in the sump going down, then it's working. My pump is
hard-piped into the sump, so even picking it up to visually check the
impeller would be an issue,, not to mention, the amount of time to remove,
and then re-install it would be way longer than the amount of time it
takes for the sump to fill up. I'd be knee deep in no time. It's true
that, eventually we need to replace the pump. Sometimes there is "gunk"
that clogs things up,, but it's not like "gunk" only adheres to impellers.
If some type of material is building up,, it's probably building up all
throughout the system, pipes, pump, and sump.

The problem I have with the answers that get posted on these forums is
that the answers are being posted in a vacuum of not enough details
surrounding the original questions. It's easy to say, that the proper way
to get rid of the water is to pipe it across the front lawn and into the
sewer. But these very specific answers don't address the varied and
sometimes complicated situations that present themselves. Things like, the
house is 60 years old, and whatever they did with water back then, may be
different than what we should do now,,,, and some basements are dugout
after the house was built, so having the proper lines isn't always an
option. Not to mention, the cost of doing the exact right thing at any
given time,, not all of us have an unlimited supply of money to address a
problem with the latest technology nor the with expert advice. Sometimes a
home owner is doing the best they can with what they have to work with,
and the fact that they listed the flow rate of their pump incorrectly,,
and then he gets slammed because he doesn't realize that the unrealistic
flow rate looks unusual to some who have experience and see immediately
that the flow rate is way too big.

In the same way that water powered pumps are described as the end all and
be all of pump backups, none one mentions that if you live in an area
that's been around for say,, hundreds of years,, and the water systems
though out the area regularly has breaks that cause water outages that
last for days and days,, well then, water powered pumps are of little
value.

I've never encountered an area where the municipal water system
regularly breaks and is out for days and days. Might exist somewhere,
where it's very unreliable, but it's the exception, not the rule.
Even places with old system, eg NYC, you might have a break in one
area that puts them without water for a day, but it's not a regular
thing. And it would also have to happen at the same time the power
is out, odds of that are extremely low.



As opposed to the battery backups that,, use a car battery, and
even if the battery died, I could swap it out in my car for a recharge
while the car battery is running the battery backup pump.


That is an advantage, assuming you're there to do the swap.

On 12/25/2015 8:44 AM, GeoEngineering wrote:
replying to Don Y , GeoEngineering wrote:
blockedofcourse wrote:

Do you check their *efficacy*? Or, just "that they work" (make noise and
appear to move water)? Impellers often get "gunked up" over time so the
motor can be running (or trying to) but no/little water is moving.

Efficiency.

No, efficacy:
the ability to produce a desired or intended result.

Efficiency determines how *well* it produces that result (in units
of watts per gallon moved, gallons per minute, etc.)

the ratio of the useful work performed by a machine or in a process
to the total energy expended or heat taken in.

I would venture a guess and say that the average home owner
would not be able to gage a pump's efficiency beyond the bigger the
efficiency number the better it is.

You typically don't care how "efficient" it is -- as long as it
can meet your expected "water movement" needs and do so without
consuming massive quantities of electricity in the process.
Hard to imagine a unit sold that would fail in obvious ways
(assuming you read the rating plate prior to purchase).

OTOH, it is relatively easy to encounter one that has become
plugged with debris from use and is no longer EFFECTIVE.

And even if I had the background to be
able make sense of how much fluid is being moved, in comparison to the
amount of electricity that is being expended, what would I do with this ?
If I chose a pump which was rated at a higher efficiency, above a pump
rated at a lower efficiency,,, what am I really choosing? Because what I
am really concerned with is the flow rate of the pump, not how little
electricity it is using at a given flow rate. If I found an aquarium pump
that had a 100 percent efficiency but it only moved a tea cup of water a
minute,, what use is that? For most of us, our electricity is supplied at
whatever rate we use it, of course, within a given range. And how would I
really be able to compare my "gunked up" pump flow rate, to the "un-gunked
up" flow rate? What home owner would be able to place a flow meter on the
pump output, or even put a current meter on the electric line feeding the
pump,,, much less, do this "before" and "after", and be able to make a
judgement based on the pumps efficiency which excluded all the other
factors that have a bearing on the efficiency? Making a decision that,
"my pump isn't doing enough" , would be as far as we need to go to decide
we need a better pump, whether that means a bigger pump, or a higher flow
rate, or both. When I hear that the pump is running, and I can see the
water level in the sump going down, then it's working. My pump is
hard-piped into the sump, so even picking it up to visually check the
impeller would be an issue,, not to mention, the amount of time to remove,
and then re-install it would be way longer than the amount of time it
takes for the sump to fill up. I'd be knee deep in no time. It's true
that, eventually we need to replace the pump. Sometimes there is "gunk"
that clogs things up,, but it's not like "gunk" only adheres to impellers.
If some type of material is building up,, it's probably building up all
throughout the system, pipes, pump, and sump.

Your problem lies in not understanding my choice of words: efficacy.
Go back and reread what I wrote. Then, realize how much of what
*you* wrote doesn't belong as a reply to my comment. :

The problem I have with the answers that get posted on these forums is
that the answers are being posted in a vacuum of not enough details
surrounding the original questions. It's easy to say, that the proper way
to get rid of the water is to pipe it across the front lawn and into the
sewer. But these very specific answers don't address the varied and
sometimes complicated situations that present themselves. Things like, the

And, who's responsibility is it to provide that level of detail?
Should folks spend many posts trying to tease out every little
detail from the OP's prior to offering a suggested remedy?
Ever notice how INFREQUENTLY the OP's don't rejoin the conversation
to say what they've done and what the results may have been?

house is 60 years old, and whatever they did with water back then, may be
different than what we should do now,,,, and some basements are dugout
after the house was built, so having the proper lines isn't always an

And code may not allow water to be routed "as desired"; tying in to a
sanitary sewer *or* storm sewer may be prohibited, locally. Or,
those connections may require check valves, etc.

Here, water falling on your property is *your* problem. When your
lot is graded, *you* have to ensure the water -- including any potential
runoff -- is handled appropriately. You will often encounter
"developments" that have set aside significant portions of real
estate (as in, "why didn't they put yet another house on that
seemingly empty lot?") as catchment basins to handle the "overflow"
from the typical downpours we get during Monsoon.

[We have very few "storm sewers" so runoff runs down the STREET.
This poses a hazard to drivers who are frequently swept away
by this volume of water -- ~6 inches to float a car...]

option. Not to mention, the cost of doing the exact right thing at any
given time,, not all of us have an unlimited supply of money to address a
problem with the latest technology nor the with expert advice. Sometimes a

Lack of funds isn't a defense against failure to comply with Code.

home owner is doing the best they can with what they have to work with,
and the fact that they listed the flow rate of their pump incorrectly,,
and then he gets slammed because he doesn't realize that the unrealistic
flow rate looks unusual to some who have experience and see immediately
that the flow rate is way too big.
In the same way that water powered pumps are described as the end all and
be all of pump backups, none one mentions that if you live in an area
that's been around for say,, hundreds of years,, and the water systems
though out the area regularly has breaks that cause water outages that
last for days and days,, well then, water powered pumps are of little
value. As opposed to the battery backups that,, use a car battery, and
even if the battery died, I could swap it out in my car for a recharge
while the car battery is running the battery backup pump.

The short answer to your rant: if you want a customized answer for
your particular circumstances, local regulatory requirements, etc.
then you ask/hire a plumber.

The advice you receive via USENET (or any other similar "forum") is
worth EXACTLY what you paid for it!

replying to Stormin Mormon, Kathy wrote:
I have sump and still flooded because the water was coming in faster than it
could pump out, record rain in small amount of time, the whole neighborhood
flooded not just me, so does not mean system sucked, my systems great I have
battery back up too, but I thought my system failed I went outside and sure
enough sump was putting water out, just could not keep up with water flow
that's how hard it rained, my mom who had never flooded in all her years at
her house flooded too, first and last time EVER having water in her home,
so.... but I do have another problem...
My sump pump drains into my neighbor's driveway and always leave the puddle at
the bottom of her driveway in the summer I can attach a hose and reroute it
away, but in the winter I can't attach a discharge hose because if it freezes
it'll back up this winter the water on a driveway froze and she almost fell, I
don't know what to do to fix it, offered to put more gravel on her DRIVEWAY,
any thoughts????

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...nk-615253-.htm

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 1:44:07 PM UTC-4, Kathy wrote:
replying to Stormin Mormon, Kathy wrote:
I have sump and still flooded because the water was coming in faster than it
could pump out, record rain in small amount of time, the whole neighborhood
flooded not just me, so does not mean system sucked, my systems great I have
battery back up too, but I thought my system failed I went outside and sure
enough sump was putting water out, just could not keep up with water flow
that's how hard it rained, my mom who had never flooded in all her years at
her house flooded too, first and last time EVER having water in her home,
so.... but I do have another problem...
My sump pump drains into my neighbor's driveway and always leave the puddle at
the bottom of her driveway in the summer I can attach a hose and reroute it
away, but in the winter I can't attach a discharge hose because if it freezes
it'll back up this winter the water on a driveway froze and she almost fell, I
don't know what to do to fix it, offered to put more gravel on her DRIVEWAY,
any thoughts????

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...nk-615253-.htm

Typically that problem is solved by having the discharge hose/pipe
installed so it's pitched downward for the entire run. Then water
doesn't stay in it to freeze. Why your sump pump discharge is
running into the neighbor's driveway at all is another issue.
Regarding the sump pump system not sucking, it would seem to me
that if it can't keep up with worst case rainfall, then it does suck.
Sump pumps come in different capacities, you can have more than one
too if necessary. Discharge hose might be part of the issue too,
if it can't support the full pump rate. If the neighborhood actually
flooded, ie a stream, pond overflowed, there was water pooled on the
ground everywhere, etc then that's a different story.