Battery charger only puts out 11.5 volts with no load on 10 amp
setting, less when on 2amp setting. Puts out 7+ on 6 volt setting.
With no load.

It used to put out plenty. I've only used it a little bit since then.
If windings in secondary were shorted, output voltage would go down,
but what would make the secondary short?

Left outside, plugged in and charging a crummy battery, for about a
week, but covered from the rain and it didn't rain anyhow.

On 11/26/2015 12:18 PM, Micky wrote:
Battery charger only puts out 11.5 volts with no load on 10 amp
setting, less when on 2amp setting. Puts out 7+ on 6 volt setting.
With no load.

It used to put out plenty. I've only used it a little bit since then.
If windings in secondary were shorted, output voltage would go down,
but what would make the secondary short?

Left outside, plugged in and charging a crummy battery, for about a
week, but covered from the rain and it didn't rain anyhow.


Are you sure it's the transformer?
What does the secondary read when disconnected from the rest of the charging circuit?

Ed wrote:
On 11/26/2015 12:18 PM, Micky wrote:
Battery charger only puts out 11.5 volts with no load on 10 amp
setting, less when on 2amp setting. Puts out 7+ on 6 volt setting.
With no load.

It used to put out plenty. I've only used it a little bit since then.
If windings in secondary were shorted, output voltage would go down,
but what would make the secondary short?

Left outside, plugged in and charging a crummy battery, for about a
week, but covered from the rain and it didn't rain anyhow.


Are you sure it's the transformer?
What does the secondary read when disconnected from the rest of the
charging circuit?

Rectifier bridge(a module or 4 diodes pack) can have a leg open or short.

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:47:48 -0700, Ed wrote:

On 11/26/2015 12:18 PM, Micky wrote:
Battery charger only puts out 11.5 volts with no load on 10 amp
setting, less when on 2amp setting. Puts out 7+ on 6 volt setting.
With no load.

It used to put out plenty. I've only used it a little bit since then.
If windings in secondary were shorted, output voltage would go down,
but what would make the secondary short?

Left outside, plugged in and charging a crummy battery, for about a
week, but covered from the rain and it didn't rain anyhow.


Are you sure it's the transformer?

No, it was just a thought. The alligator clips were all corroded, so
I used a wire brush on a bench grinder and cleaned them off well,
incuding the edge of the jaws. I don't think they could be the
problem.

What does the secondary read when disconnected from the rest of the charging circuit?

No way to open the thing without bending a bunch of little metal tabs.
I'm sure they'll break so I want to avoid that if I can.

I have another 15 amp charger, but I don't think I've needed it for 2
years. No a friend brought a battery over summer of 2014, so it's got
to be around here somewhere.

For some reason I started another thread and apparently the voltage
has gone up, 12.5 on ten amps, 11.5 on two amps.

On 11/26/2015 1:18 PM, Micky wrote:
Battery charger only puts out 11.5 volts with no load on 10 amp
setting, less when on 2amp setting. Puts out 7+ on 6 volt setting.
With no load.

It used to put out plenty. I've only used it a little bit since then.
If windings in secondary were shorted, output voltage would go down,
but what would make the secondary short?

Left outside, plugged in and charging a crummy battery, for about a
week, but covered from the rain and it didn't rain anyhow.




Open circuit voltage is meaningless

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:21:58 -0600, philo wrote:

On 11/26/2015 1:18 PM, Micky wrote:
Battery charger only puts out 11.5 volts with no load on 10 amp
setting, less when on 2amp setting. Puts out 7+ on 6 volt setting.
With no load.

It used to put out plenty. I've only used it a little bit since then.
If windings in secondary were shorted, output voltage would go down,
but what would make the secondary short?

Left outside, plugged in and charging a crummy battery, for about a
week, but covered from the rain and it didn't rain anyhow.




Open circuit voltage is meaningless
Except the voltage is very unlikely to be higher into a load - like
charging a battery. (assuming it is not a "polarity protected"
charger)

On 11/26/2015 5:26 PM, Micky wrote:

No way to open the thing without bending a bunch of little metal tabs.
I'm sure they'll break so I want to avoid that if I can.

The old car-battery charges I've opened up
were all rather simple. I'd go and break
the tabs, and see what's the various voltages
inside.

Worst case, you've had a learning moment, and
go buy another charger for about $30.


-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 11/27/2015 6:57 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/26/2015 5:26 PM, Micky wrote:

No way to open the thing without bending a bunch of little metal tabs.
I'm sure they'll break so I want to avoid that if I can.

The old car-battery charges I've opened up
were all rather simple. I'd go and break
the tabs, and see what's the various voltages
inside.

Worst case, you've had a learning moment, and
go buy another charger for about $30.


-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
First thing to do is determine if it's broke.
If you have a typical meter, it likely has a current function
that can measure an amp.
If not, put a 12V light bulb in series. It should be off when
the charger is unplugged from the wall and glow somewhat when
the charger is plugged into the wall...depending on the design
of the unspecified random charger and the bulb.

The output may not be filtered and therefore a DC reading
Meter might not read the actual peak voltage.
Use an o scope or connect it to an actual battery and see
If the battery voltage increases.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 14:49:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:

The output may not be filtered and therefore a DC reading
Meter might not read the actual peak voltage.
Use an o scope or connect it to an actual battery and see
If the battery voltage increases.

Is it possible for you to include some quoted context from the thread
you reply too? Makes it hard to follow from whom you replied to. Just
askin'. I get lost.
--
"Dodgeball in Burkas" -- Greg Gutfeld

Sorry about the lack of quotes. When I post from this tablet,
I don't have the option to quote.
When I post from a desktop, I can and do quote.
I don't like it either.
I guess I can manually copy and paste the quote.
Thanks for the feedback.

In writes:

The output may not be filtered and therefore a DC reading
Meter might not read the actual peak voltage.

Indeed. Many battery charger use "pulsed DC" which can
confuse lots of meters...

--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 04:18:34 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote:

In writes:

The output may not be filtered and therefore a DC reading
Meter might not read the actual peak voltage.

Indeed. Many battery charger use "pulsed DC" which can
confuse lots of meters...

This charger is nothing fancy, though you inspire me to see if I can
find it online and learn something about it. Didnt' take the time
today to test it on my battery, or a lightbulb like was suggested.

I mentioned that a friend was over this summer to get his battery
charged, but now I'm wondering if I actually charged it. I dug out my
hydrometer, and I can't remember details but I got some strange
readings. Why would I have dug it out if his voltage hadn't gone up?
I had the thing for two days.

I'll bet this charger has been broken since I got it. I assumed it
worked because the Freecycle guy who gave it to me said it did. But
maybe he said I think it does.

wrote:
The output may not be filtered and therefore a DC reading
Meter might not read the actual peak voltage.
Use an o scope or connect it to an actual battery and see
If the battery voltage increases.

You could also put a capacitor on output to read peak. The charger might
not be working as new, but may still charge.

Greg

In Micky writes:

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 04:18:34 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote:

In writes:

The output may not be filtered and therefore a DC reading
Meter might not read the actual peak voltage.

Indeed. Many battery charger use "pulsed DC" which can
confuse lots of meters...

This charger is nothing fancy, though you inspire me to see if I can
find it online and learn something about it. Didnt' take the time
today to test it on my battery, or a lightbulb like was suggested.

No need for it to be fancy. In fact, the cheapest ones might
very well be just a transformer to reduce line voltage to
a nominal 13 VDC (but see below)... along with a diode to
(mostly) just keep the current going "forward", so to speak,
into the battery.

(or go up one step to a diode bridge...)

In any event, thse will be outputting a sinusidal wave form,
just at 13V instead of 120. However, that means that part
of the time it'll be at 18 or so volts, other times it'll
be under 12 and dropping to zero...




--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 07:59:18 -0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

wrote:
The output may not be filtered and therefore a DC reading
Meter might not read the actual peak voltage.
Use an o scope or connect it to an actual battery and see
If the battery voltage increases.

You could also put a capacitor on output to read peak. The charger might
not be working as new, but may still charge.

Greg


OK - I'll eat some crow. You can even leave the feathers on.

I did some real world testing on a couple of chargers I have sitting
around that work. One of them has a center tapped secondary with 2
plate rectifiers. It is an old non-automatic charger with 6 and 12
volt, 2, 15 and 100 amp boost positions.
With it not connected to anything it reads 10.2 volts on my high
impedence digital voltmeter. If I put any ac load on it, including a
capacitor, it jumps to 14.6 volts and on the capacitor (7800ufd 75
volt electrolytic) it behaves the same as on a fully charged batteery,
cycling between 12.2 and 14.6 volts.

On my bridge rectified charger it is 14.6 open circuit, and on my
automatic it is zero volts until connected to a voltage source =
either battery or charged capacitor (artly or fully - reading over
about 5.5 volts) it outputs the voltage required to force a charge
into the battery.

The dumb chager limits itself to about 14.4 volts and the smart ones
shut down at 14.6, then come back on, alternating between 12.2 (or
whatever the battery voltage is) and 14.6 (in other words, not
charging, then charging at full voltage/little or no current)


SO - a center tapped transformer with 2 plate rectifies (I believe
they are metal oxide - not selenium, but not silicon)- it IS possible
for a working battery charger to put out less than expected voltage
into an open circuit. Interestingly there is a resistor between the
common and one stud on the plate rectifier, which might have something
to do with the unexpected voltage.

In the case ofmine - significantly below nominal battery voltage.

posted for all of us...



On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 07:59:18 -0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

wrote:
The output may not be filtered and therefore a DC reading
Meter might not read the actual peak voltage.
Use an o scope or connect it to an actual battery and see
If the battery voltage increases.

You could also put a capacitor on output to read peak. The charger might
not be working as new, but may still charge.

Greg


OK - I'll eat some crow. You can even leave the feathers on.

I did some real world testing on a couple of chargers I have sitting
around that work. One of them has a center tapped secondary with 2
plate rectifiers. It is an old non-automatic charger with 6 and 12
volt, 2, 15 and 100 amp boost positions.
With it not connected to anything it reads 10.2 volts on my high
impedence digital voltmeter. If I put any ac load on it, including a
capacitor, it jumps to 14.6 volts and on the capacitor (7800ufd 75
volt electrolytic) it behaves the same as on a fully charged batteery,
cycling between 12.2 and 14.6 volts.

On my bridge rectified charger it is 14.6 open circuit, and on my
automatic it is zero volts until connected to a voltage source =
either battery or charged capacitor (artly or fully - reading over
about 5.5 volts) it outputs the voltage required to force a charge
into the battery.

The dumb chager limits itself to about 14.4 volts and the smart ones
shut down at 14.6, then come back on, alternating between 12.2 (or
whatever the battery voltage is) and 14.6 (in other words, not
charging, then charging at full voltage/little or no current)


SO - a center tapped transformer with 2 plate rectifies (I believe
they are metal oxide - not selenium, but not silicon)- it IS possible
for a working battery charger to put out less than expected voltage
into an open circuit. Interestingly there is a resistor between the
common and one stud on the plate rectifier, which might have something
to do with the unexpected voltage.

In the case ofmine - significantly below nominal battery voltage.

You realize you just blew all the atta-boys for the year?

--
Tekkie

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:18:19 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Battery charger only puts out 11.5 volts with no load on 10 amp
setting, less when on 2amp setting. Puts out 7+ on 6 volt setting.
With no load.

It used to put out plenty.

I think I was wrong about this. I assumed it worked, but I just
looked for and found the Freecycle ad, for 20 months ago, and it says

"This is an AC powered battery charger for charging vehicle or boat
batteries. I measured 12V DC on it but you will need to clean up the
clamps a bit."

"BUT", like the first part wasn't a problem. I jumped to the
conclusion that meant it was good. Usually, if something fails it
has less than 12 volts, but today I measured my 1 amp charger that I
got 50 (50) years ago and it has over 16 volts with no load.

This bad one will light the scooter's tail light, or its brake light,
but I dont' think it will charge the battery. Measured voltage with
a Kelvin meter, and it was 0.1v lower, and you know that's a good
brand because Kelvin was a great man. Discovered warm weather, iirc.
They still sell this, Century 87102C Battery Charger, $74 including
shipping at Amazon, Lowes, and HD, but only $58.50 inc. shipping at
the manufacturer's site, but it's not smart at all. The smart ones
are pretty darn expensive.

I remember the guy. He had a messy house, loads of stuff to get rid
of, so he could move, I think, but nothing else I wanted.

Sorry for stirring up the tussle between two of you. Glad you made
up.

I'll try to fix it soon.

I've only used it a little bit since then.
If windings in secondary were shorted, output voltage would go down,
but what would make the secondary short?

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:18:19 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Battery charger only puts out 11.5 volts with no load on 10 amp
setting, less when on 2amp setting. Puts out 7+ on 6 volt setting.
With no load.

It used to put out plenty. I've only used it a little bit since then.
If windings in secondary were shorted, output voltage would go down,
but what would make the secondary short?

Left outside, plugged in and charging a crummy battery, for about a
week, but covered from the rain and it didn't rain anyhow.

I just measured the voltage on one of my battery chargers. Using my
analog meter, it shows slightly less that 12V with no load. It charges
batteries just fine!

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 17:42:17 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:18:19 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Battery charger only puts out 11.5 volts with no load on 10 amp
setting, less when on 2amp setting. Puts out 7+ on 6 volt setting.
With no load.

It used to put out plenty. I've only used it a little bit since then.
If windings in secondary were shorted, output voltage would go down,
but what would make the secondary short?

Left outside, plugged in and charging a crummy battery, for about a
week, but covered from the rain and it didn't rain anyhow.

I just measured the voltage on one of my battery chargers. Using my
analog meter, it shows slightly less that 12V with no load. It charges
batteries just fine!

Hmm. Is it a smart charger in any way?

I could/should/will connect it to my car. 43^ and rain Monday and
rain for 2 more days

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 01:48:51 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 17:42:17 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:18:19 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Battery charger only puts out 11.5 volts with no load on 10 amp
setting, less when on 2amp setting. Puts out 7+ on 6 volt setting.
With no load.

It used to put out plenty. I've only used it a little bit since then.
If windings in secondary were shorted, output voltage would go down,
but what would make the secondary short?

Left outside, plugged in and charging a crummy battery, for about a
week, but covered from the rain and it didn't rain anyhow.

I just measured the voltage on one of my battery chargers. Using my
analog meter, it shows slightly less that 12V with no load. It charges
batteries just fine!

Hmm. Is it a smart charger in any way?

I could/should/will connect it to my car. 43^ and rain Monday and
rain for 2 more days

NO, just a basic OLD 10A charger. Probably from the 1970s.

I bet yours will charge just fine!!!!!

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 01:19:29 -0600, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 01:48:51 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 17:42:17 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:18:19 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Battery charger only puts out 11.5 volts with no load on 10 amp
setting, less when on 2amp setting. Puts out 7+ on 6 volt setting.
With no load.

It used to put out plenty. I've only used it a little bit since then.
If windings in secondary were shorted, output voltage would go down,
but what would make the secondary short?

Left outside, plugged in and charging a crummy battery, for about a
week, but covered from the rain and it didn't rain anyhow.

I just measured the voltage on one of my battery chargers. Using my
analog meter, it shows slightly less that 12V with no load. It charges
batteries just fine!

Hmm. Is it a smart charger in any way?

I could/should/will connect it to my car. 43^ and rain Monday and
rain for 2 more days

NO, just a basic OLD 10A charger. Probably from the 1970s.

I bet yours will charge just fine!!!!!

Maybe you're right. If it doesn't, I found the email from Freecycle
where it was offered, and even though it's 20 months later, I'm going
to write the guy and ask him if it worked. Maybe he'll remember. I'm
grateful for a free charger either way, and I'll tell him that. One
advantage of email, if he was moving, his email should stay the same.

OTOH, the email providers give a lot more trouble than my house does.
Verizon jus announced if you dont' read your mail for 6 months,
they'll throw it away and close your account, even if seems if you're
paying your monthly bill to Verizon.

I just measured the voltage on one of my battery chargers. Using my
analog meter, it shows slightly less that 12V with no load. It charges
batteries just fine!


OK try this...

Get a small 12v bulb like a car brake light bulb.

Temporarily wire it in SERIES between the battery and the charger.

If the bulb filament glows when the charger is plugged into the wall and does not glow when the charger is not plugged into the wall...then

that means the charger is probably working fine.

The glow indicates the charger is pushing current into the battery.

The brighter the glow, the more current is flowing.

Mark