On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 08:43:49 -0600, SeaNymph wrote:

How can she enjoy herself, with her new name and all,

I believe that she has "paid" enough for her trangressions in APSE.

If she can be polite, I don't see why we cannot invite her back here. I
mean, Eagle is not polite to everyone (I won't mention any nyms, Madame
correspondent), and yet we are collectively able to support or at least
tolerate him. Even D. has told E. that he has no plans to escalate actions
against E. provided that E. does not cross certain lines D. has drawn in
the sand.

For sure, Jenn did get not along okay with some of the posters here. I'm
sure that I probably had some differences of opinion with her, but none
serious enough to warrant eternal banishment.

How can we maintain discourse against those with contrary opinions if we
close ourselves against the expression of those opinions? Is that not what
people are dying for in battlefields around the world? (Freedom of
Expression.)

On 11/16/2015 11:12 AM, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 08:43:49 -0600, SeaNymph wrote:

How can she enjoy herself, with her new name and all,

I believe that she has "paid" enough for her trangressions in APSE.

If she can be polite, I don't see why we cannot invite her back here. I
mean, Eagle is not polite to everyone (I won't mention any nyms, Madame
correspondent), and yet we are collectively able to support or at least
tolerate him. Even D. has told E. that he has no plans to escalate actions
against E. provided that E. does not cross certain lines D. has drawn in
the sand.

For sure, Jenn did get not along okay with some of the posters here. I'm
sure that I probably had some differences of opinion with her, but none
serious enough to warrant eternal banishment.

How can we maintain discourse against those with contrary opinions if we
close ourselves against the expression of those opinions? Is that not what
people are dying for in battlefields around the world? (Freedom of
Expression.)

I wish I'd noticed earlier that this was crossposted, because I would
have removed that. Our goings on in here have nothing to do with any
other newsgroup and I don't think it's appropriate to do that. So, I've
removed the crossposting.

Having read some of the things in the home repair group, I've come to
the conclusion that the posting style has not changed in the least. I
don't believe that jenn has any desire to return to this group and
frankly, I can only think of 2 posters who would want her to come back.
People generally do not change their posting style, so I don't see her
changing hers. Discussion with a person consumed by a victim mentality,
or hatred, is mostly not possible, imo. The fact is that there are those
posters who believe in free speech, but only for themselves, not for
others. I don't care what people believe as long as they can converse
factually, accurately and leave the personalities out of it.

The fact is, she made a choice after what happened, and that choice was
to not post in SE. I think it was the right choice. It's not about
contrary opinions, its the constant personalization of topics, iow, not
discussing the topic but the poster. We used to have very interesting
discussions in here, but when conversing with overly emotional posters
who make broad, general statements, or statements that cannot be backed
up but are touted as fact, that usually puts a quick end to most any
discussion. When somebody tells me that I should simply accept what they
say as fact, that pretty much says it all to me.

As for eagle, I don't tolerate him at all and I most assuredly don't
support him in an manner. He was gone a while back, for several weeks
and there was none of the nasty posts he so often chooses to make. It
was quite lovely. He has sexually harassed me for years, he has insulted
most members of my family, some of them in absolutely hideous ways. And
why did he do that? In one instance, he did it, by his own admission,
because he was mad at Dustin.

I'm tired of watching him trying to intimidate people and force them to
do what he thinks is right. Which is why, I generally tend to ignore
him, meaning that I don't usually respond to him. Others simply use him
for a punching bad because it's clearly so easy to do so. I don't really
care. I wouldn't want to see jenn come back here because history tells
me no good would come of it. But, that's just my opinion.

All that being said, I still believe it's wrong to discuss posters that
don't post in here, or to bring up the family members of others.

On 11/16/2015 11:41 AM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 11/16/2015 11:12 AM, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 08:43:49 -0600, SeaNymph wrote:

How can she enjoy herself, with her new name and all,

I believe that she has "paid" enough for her trangressions in APSE.

If she can be polite, I don't see why we cannot invite her back here. I
mean, Eagle is not polite to everyone (I won't mention any nyms, Madame
correspondent), and yet we are collectively able to support or at least
tolerate him. Even D. has told E. that he has no plans to escalate
actions
against E. provided that E. does not cross certain lines D. has drawn in
the sand.

For sure, Jenn did get not along okay with some of the posters here. I'm
sure that I probably had some differences of opinion with her, but none
serious enough to warrant eternal banishment.

How can we maintain discourse against those with contrary opinions if we
close ourselves against the expression of those opinions? Is that not
what
people are dying for in battlefields around the world? (Freedom of
Expression.)

I wish I'd noticed earlier that this was crossposted, because I would
have removed that. Our goings on in here have nothing to do with any
other newsgroup and I don't think it's appropriate to do that. So, I've
removed the crossposting.

Having read some of the things in the home repair group, I've come to
the conclusion that the posting style has not changed in the least. I
don't believe that jenn has any desire to return to this group and
frankly, I can only think of 2 posters who would want her to come back.
People generally do not change their posting style, so I don't see her
changing hers. Discussion with a person consumed by a victim mentality,
or hatred, is mostly not possible, imo. The fact is that there are those
posters who believe in free speech, but only for themselves, not for
others. I don't care what people believe as long as they can converse
factually, accurately and leave the personalities out of it.

The fact is, she made a choice after what happened, and that choice was
to not post in SE. I think it was the right choice. It's not about
contrary opinions, its the constant personalization of topics, iow, not
discussing the topic but the poster. We used to have very interesting
discussions in here, but when conversing with overly emotional posters
who make broad, general statements, or statements that cannot be backed
up but are touted as fact, that usually puts a quick end to most any
discussion. When somebody tells me that I should simply accept what they
say as fact, that pretty much says it all to me.

As for eagle, I don't tolerate him at all and I most assuredly don't
support him in an manner. He was gone a while back, for several weeks
and there was none of the nasty posts he so often chooses to make. It
was quite lovely. He has sexually harassed me for years, he has insulted
most members of my family, some of them in absolutely hideous ways. And
why did he do that? In one instance, he did it, by his own admission,
because he was mad at Dustin.

I'm tired of watching him trying to intimidate people and force them to
do what he thinks is right. Which is why, I generally tend to ignore
him, meaning that I don't usually respond to him. Others simply use him
for a punching bad because it's clearly so easy to do so. I don't really
care. I wouldn't want to see jenn come back here because history tells
me no good would come of it. But, that's just my opinion.

All that being said, I still believe it's wrong to discuss posters that
don't post in here, or to bring up the family members of others.

One other thing. There was a deal made when this all happened. If she
comes back here and posts, all bets are off. She made her choice and
that choice should be respected, imo.

On 2015-11-16 12:41 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 11/16/2015 11:12 AM, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 08:43:49 -0600, SeaNymph wrote:

How can she enjoy herself, with her new name and all,

I believe that she has "paid" enough for her trangressions in APSE.

If she can be polite, I don't see why we cannot invite her back here. I
mean, Eagle is not polite to everyone (I won't mention any nyms, Madame
correspondent), and yet we are collectively able to support or at least
tolerate him. Even D. has told E. that he has no plans to escalate
actions
against E. provided that E. does not cross certain lines D. has drawn in
the sand.

For sure, Jenn did get not along okay with some of the posters here. I'm
sure that I probably had some differences of opinion with her, but none
serious enough to warrant eternal banishment.

How can we maintain discourse against those with contrary opinions if we
close ourselves against the expression of those opinions? Is that not
what
people are dying for in battlefields around the world? (Freedom of
Expression.)

I wish I'd noticed earlier that this was crossposted, because I would
have removed that. Our goings on in here have nothing to do with any
other newsgroup and I don't think it's appropriate to do that. So, I've
removed the crossposting.

Having read some of the things in the home repair group, I've come to
the conclusion that the posting style has not changed in the least. I
don't believe that jenn has any desire to return to this group and
frankly, I can only think of 2 posters who would want her to come back.
People generally do not change their posting style, so I don't see her
changing hers. Discussion with a person consumed by a victim mentality,
or hatred, is mostly not possible, imo. The fact is that there are those
posters who believe in free speech, but only for themselves, not for
others. I don't care what people believe as long as they can converse
factually, accurately and leave the personalities out of it.

The fact is, she made a choice after what happened, and that choice was
to not post in SE. I think it was the right choice. It's not about
contrary opinions, its the constant personalization of topics, iow, not
discussing the topic but the poster. We used to have very interesting
discussions in here, but when conversing with overly emotional posters
who make broad, general statements, or statements that cannot be backed
up but are touted as fact, that usually puts a quick end to most any
discussion. When somebody tells me that I should simply accept what they
say as fact, that pretty much says it all to me.

As for eagle, I don't tolerate him at all and I most assuredly don't
support him in an manner. He was gone a while back, for several weeks
and there was none of the nasty posts he so often chooses to make. It
was quite lovely. He has sexually harassed me for years, he has insulted
most members of my family, some of them in absolutely hideous ways. And
why did he do that? In one instance, he did it, by his own admission,
because he was mad at Dustin.

I'm tired of watching him trying to intimidate people and force them to
do what he thinks is right. Which is why, I generally tend to ignore
him, meaning that I don't usually respond to him. Others simply use him
for a punching bad because it's clearly so easy to do so. I don't really
care. I wouldn't want to see jenn come back here because history tells
me no good would come of it. But, that's just my opinion.

All that being said, I still believe it's wrong to discuss posters that
don't post in here, or to bring up the family members of others.

Hate to point it out, but the x-post is still on *your* post.

--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati

On 11/16/2015 11:49 AM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2015-11-16 12:41 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 11/16/2015 11:12 AM, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 08:43:49 -0600, SeaNymph wrote:

How can she enjoy herself, with her new name and all,

I believe that she has "paid" enough for her trangressions in APSE.

If she can be polite, I don't see why we cannot invite her back here. I
mean, Eagle is not polite to everyone (I won't mention any nyms, Madame
correspondent), and yet we are collectively able to support or at least
tolerate him. Even D. has told E. that he has no plans to escalate
actions
against E. provided that E. does not cross certain lines D. has drawn in
the sand.

For sure, Jenn did get not along okay with some of the posters here. I'm
sure that I probably had some differences of opinion with her, but none
serious enough to warrant eternal banishment.

How can we maintain discourse against those with contrary opinions if we
close ourselves against the expression of those opinions? Is that not
what
people are dying for in battlefields around the world? (Freedom of
Expression.)

I wish I'd noticed earlier that this was crossposted, because I would
have removed that. Our goings on in here have nothing to do with any
other newsgroup and I don't think it's appropriate to do that. So, I've
removed the crossposting.

Having read some of the things in the home repair group, I've come to
the conclusion that the posting style has not changed in the least. I
don't believe that jenn has any desire to return to this group and
frankly, I can only think of 2 posters who would want her to come back.
People generally do not change their posting style, so I don't see her
changing hers. Discussion with a person consumed by a victim mentality,
or hatred, is mostly not possible, imo. The fact is that there are those
posters who believe in free speech, but only for themselves, not for
others. I don't care what people believe as long as they can converse
factually, accurately and leave the personalities out of it.

The fact is, she made a choice after what happened, and that choice was
to not post in SE. I think it was the right choice. It's not about
contrary opinions, its the constant personalization of topics, iow, not
discussing the topic but the poster. We used to have very interesting
discussions in here, but when conversing with overly emotional posters
who make broad, general statements, or statements that cannot be backed
up but are touted as fact, that usually puts a quick end to most any
discussion. When somebody tells me that I should simply accept what they
say as fact, that pretty much says it all to me.

As for eagle, I don't tolerate him at all and I most assuredly don't
support him in an manner. He was gone a while back, for several weeks
and there was none of the nasty posts he so often chooses to make. It
was quite lovely. He has sexually harassed me for years, he has insulted
most members of my family, some of them in absolutely hideous ways. And
why did he do that? In one instance, he did it, by his own admission,
because he was mad at Dustin.

I'm tired of watching him trying to intimidate people and force them to
do what he thinks is right. Which is why, I generally tend to ignore
him, meaning that I don't usually respond to him. Others simply use him
for a punching bad because it's clearly so easy to do so. I don't really
care. I wouldn't want to see jenn come back here because history tells
me no good would come of it. But, that's just my opinion.

All that being said, I still believe it's wrong to discuss posters that
don't post in here, or to bring up the family members of others.

Hate to point it out, but the x-post is still on *your* post.

I see that. Not sure how that happened. Oh well, live and learn.

On 11/16/2015 12:57 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 11/16/2015 11:49 AM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2015-11-16 12:41 PM, SeaNymph wrote:

I wish I'd noticed earlier that this was crossposted, because I would
have removed that. Our goings on in here have nothing to do with any
other newsgroup and I don't think it's appropriate to do that. So, I've
removed the crossposting.

Hate to point it out, but the x-post is still on *your* post.

I see that. Not sure how that happened. Oh well, live and learn.

The technical term is "Operator Error". : Happens increasingly
with advancing age :-(

[Wait until you start calling your kids the wrong names!! : ]

On 11/16/2015 2:21 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 11/16/2015 12:57 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 11/16/2015 11:49 AM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2015-11-16 12:41 PM, SeaNymph wrote:

I wish I'd noticed earlier that this was crossposted, because I would
have removed that. Our goings on in here have nothing to do with any
other newsgroup and I don't think it's appropriate to do that. So, I've
removed the crossposting.

Hate to point it out, but the x-post is still on *your* post.

I see that. Not sure how that happened. Oh well, live and learn.

The technical term is "Operator Error". : Happens increasingly
with advancing age :-(

[Wait until you start calling your kids the wrong names!! : ]

Luckily, I haven't gotten that bad yet

I simply didn't want to bring a meaningless discussion in here, and I
managed to royally screw that up.

On 11/16/2015 1:50 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 11/16/2015 2:21 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 11/16/2015 12:57 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 11/16/2015 11:49 AM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2015-11-16 12:41 PM, SeaNymph wrote:

I wish I'd noticed earlier that this was crossposted, because I would
have removed that. Our goings on in here have nothing to do with any
other newsgroup and I don't think it's appropriate to do that. So, I've
removed the crossposting.

Hate to point it out, but the x-post is still on *your* post.

I see that. Not sure how that happened. Oh well, live and learn.

The technical term is "Operator Error". : Happens increasingly
with advancing age :-(

[Wait until you start calling your kids the wrong names!! : ]

Luckily, I haven't gotten that bad yet

Don't fret -- it'll happen soon enough! :

I simply didn't want to bring a meaningless discussion in here, and I managed
to royally screw that up.

Wait until you post part of a private correspondence with a *client*!
Oooops!

[Thankfully, most folks reading such a dialog would be clueless as to the
names of either party and the upstream details indirectly referenced]

One saving grace about USENET is attachments get scrubbed -- no risk of
pictures or documents making their way into the public!

On Monday, November 16, 2015 at 2:21:23 PM UTC-6, Don Y wrote:
On 11/16/2015 12:57 PM, SeaNymph wrote:
On 11/16/2015 11:49 AM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 2015-11-16 12:41 PM, SeaNymph wrote:

I wish I'd noticed earlier that this was crossposted, because I would
have removed that. Our goings on in here have nothing to do with any
other newsgroup and I don't think it's appropriate to do that. So, I've
removed the crossposting.

Hate to point it out, but the x-post is still on *your* post.

I see that. Not sure how that happened. Oh well, live and learn.

The technical term is "Operator Error". : Happens increasingly
with advancing age :-(

[Wait until you start calling your kids the wrong names!! : ]

It's called premature postification. Don't be embarrassed, it can happen to anyone. �

[8~{} Uncle Embarrassed Monster