Other was getting disjointed w/ too many side bars and false starts,
etc., ... so thought I'd update.

Just finished cleaning up and putting new connector (threads stripped on
the old 'un getting it off) at the connection at the weatherhead. It
was somewhat corroded but not too bad so was a'feared it wasn't the
issue and turns out it wasn't--no fixie.

I can cut the power _to_ the barn but the connections on the other end
are at the hot location top of the pole before it goes down to the meter
and then back up and over to the barn. Wind is now up to the point I'm
not getting up near that until it isn't so much so--the manlift arm is
flexible enough as is so that end will have to wait.

I'm thinking it can't be it anyway, however, as there are three others
tied to it and there's not an issue in any other location excepting the
barn while it's common to all locations.

Hence, it's coming down to there must be something going on between the
connection in the disconnect/fuse box and the weatherhead--I suppose a
packrat or some other varmint coulda' done something or perhaps there's
even a connection/junction box in that run they needed to get it
pulled--I've not yet done the full probe/investigation along the route
although it's straight up the front wall of the barn thru the loft so I
wouldn't think there would have been any need. But, there is an old
horse/mule feed bin in the corner which covers up ready access/view w/o
getting in and over it so anything is possible...

--

On 11/04/2015 1:39 PM, dpb wrote:
....

Hence, it's coming down to there must be something going on between the
connection in the disconnect/fuse box and the weatherhead--I suppose a
packrat or some other varmint coulda' done something or perhaps there's
even a connection/junction box in that run they needed to get it
pulled--I've not yet done the full probe/investigation along the route
although it's straight up the front wall of the barn thru the loft so I
wouldn't think there would have been any need. But, there is an old
horse/mule feed bin in the corner which covers up ready access/view w/o
getting in and over it so anything is possible...

PS. Are we having fun yet???

--

On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:20:43 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 11/04/2015 1:39 PM, dpb wrote:
...

Hence, it's coming down to there must be something going on between the
connection in the disconnect/fuse box and the weatherhead--I suppose a
packrat or some other varmint coulda' done something or perhaps there's
even a connection/junction box in that run they needed to get it
pulled--I've not yet done the full probe/investigation along the route
although it's straight up the front wall of the barn thru the loft so I
wouldn't think there would have been any need. But, there is an old
horse/mule feed bin in the corner which covers up ready access/view w/o
getting in and over it so anything is possible...

PS. Are we having fun yet???

You must be.

I have no clue. Are these fuses those that have copper ends that snap
in? Not the screw in types. I have seen the snap in fuses burn out
slowly, weaken, still pass some voltage before they completely fail.

Just playing along to have fun

On 11/04/2015 2:46 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:20:43 -0600, wrote:

On 11/04/2015 1:39 PM, dpb wrote:
...

Hence, it's coming down to there must be something going on between the
connection in the disconnect/fuse box and the weatherhead--I suppose a
packrat or some other varmint coulda' done something or perhaps there's
even a connection/junction box in that run they needed to get it
pulled--I've not yet done the full probe/investigation along the route
although it's straight up the front wall of the barn thru the loft so I
wouldn't think there would have been any need. But, there is an old
horse/mule feed bin in the corner which covers up ready access/view w/o
getting in and over it so anything is possible...

PS. Are we having fun yet???

You must be.

I have no clue. Are these fuses those that have copper ends that snap
in? Not the screw in types. I have seen the snap in fuses burn out
slowly, weaken, still pass some voltage before they completely fail.

Yeah, they're the long cartridge type as you presume....don't think
they're the problem as all the 240V circuits are fine; I've checked both
the shop and the large motors back at the feed mill and they are
perfectly happy so there's plenty of juice and current in the two hot
legs, just not the return for 120V.

Just playing along to have fun

The more the merrier... :P

--

Oren posted for all of us...



On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:20:43 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 11/04/2015 1:39 PM, dpb wrote:
...

Hence, it's coming down to there must be something going on between the
connection in the disconnect/fuse box and the weatherhead--I suppose a
packrat or some other varmint coulda' done something or perhaps there's
even a connection/junction box in that run they needed to get it
pulled--I've not yet done the full probe/investigation along the route
although it's straight up the front wall of the barn thru the loft so I
wouldn't think there would have been any need. But, there is an old
horse/mule feed bin in the corner which covers up ready access/view w/o
getting in and over it so anything is possible...

PS. Are we having fun yet???

You must be.

I have no clue. Are these fuses those that have copper ends that snap
in? Not the screw in types. I have seen the snap in fuses burn out
slowly, weaken, still pass some voltage before they completely fail.

Just playing along to have fun

+1 What Oren posted. Plus the fuse holders get overheated and then don't
hold the fuse securely. Then they sizzle and snap and smell, if you are
lucky.

--
Tekkie

On 11/05/2015 1:58 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Oren posted for all of us...
On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:20:43 -0600, wrote:
....

PS. Are we having fun yet???

You must be.

I have no clue. Are these fuses those that have copper ends that snap
in? Not the screw in types. I have seen the snap in fuses burn out
slowly, weaken, still pass some voltage before they completely fail.

Just playing along to have fun

+1 What Oren posted. Plus the fuse holders get overheated and then don't
hold the fuse securely. Then they sizzle and snap and smell, if you are
lucky.

Mayhaps sometimes, but not the problem here....symptoms like that would
be quite observable if nothing else in something other than bright and
shiny contacts which have verified are so. Plus, have 240V.

--

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 14:58:54 -0500, Tekkie® wrote:

I have no clue. Are these fuses those that have copper ends that snap
in? Not the screw in types. I have seen the snap in fuses burn out
slowly, weaken, still pass some voltage before they completely fail.

Just playing along to have fun

+1 What Oren posted. Plus the fuse holders get overheated and then don't
hold the fuse securely. Then they sizzle and snap and smell, if you are
lucky.

They would begin to scorch, too. You could see small burnt spots in
the center. Then larger spots and then they failed. Some reason,
IIRC, they were called slow burn fuses for that reason?

dpb wrote:
On 11/04/2015 1:39 PM, dpb wrote:
...

Hence, it's coming down to there must be something going on between
the connection in the disconnect/fuse box and the weatherhead--I
suppose a packrat or some other varmint coulda' done something or
perhaps there's even a connection/junction box in that run they
needed to get it pulled--I've not yet done the full
probe/investigation along the route although it's straight up the
front wall of the barn thru the loft so I wouldn't think there would
have been any need. But, there is an old horse/mule feed bin in the
corner which covers up ready access/view w/o getting in and over it
so anything is possible...

PS. Are we having fun yet???

I'm having a simply marvelous F'ing time . I've been setting cement blocks .
My first go ... the advice I got here has helped .

--
Snag

On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 17:12:42 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

PS. Are we having fun yet???

I'm having a simply marvelous F'ing time . I've been setting cement blocks .
My first go ... the advice I got here has helped .

People on the East Coast of Arkansas can always learn something :-\

Oren posted for all of us...



On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 17:12:42 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

PS. Are we having fun yet???

I'm having a simply marvelous F'ing time . I've been setting cement blocks .
My first go ... the advice I got here has helped .

People on the East Coast of Arkansas can always learn something :-\

The West coast not so good?

--
Tekkie

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 15:00:24 -0500, Tekkie® wrote:

People on the East Coast of Arkansas can always learn something :-\

The West coast not so good?

They ain't got no stinkin' West Coast, do they

On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 13:39:25 -0600, dpb wrote:

Hence, it's coming down to there must be something going on between the
connection in the disconnect/fuse box and the weatherhead--I suppose a
packrat or some other varmint coulda' done something or perhaps there's
even a connection/junction box in that run they needed to get it
pulled--I've not yet done the full probe/investigation along the route
although it's straight up the front wall of the barn thru the loft so I
wouldn't think there would have been any need. But, there is an old
horse/mule feed bin in the corner which covers up ready access/view w/o
getting in and over it so anything is possible...


Looks to me like you need to do some major re-wiring, before a person or
animal dies..... The power from the weatherhead should go DIRECTLY to
the breaker/fuse panel, with no junction boxes in between. If you still
have a fuse box, it's time to upgrade anyhow.

writes:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 13:39:25 -0600, dpb wrote:

Hence, it's coming down to there must be something going on between the
connection in the disconnect/fuse box and the weatherhead--I suppose a
packrat or some other varmint coulda' done something or perhaps there's
even a connection/junction box in that run they needed to get it
pulled--I've not yet done the full probe/investigation along the route
although it's straight up the front wall of the barn thru the loft so I
wouldn't think there would have been any need. But, there is an old
horse/mule feed bin in the corner which covers up ready access/view w/o
getting in and over it so anything is possible...


Looks to me like you need to do some major re-wiring, before a person or
animal dies..... The power from the weatherhead should go DIRECTLY to
the breaker/fuse panel, with no junction boxes in between. If you still
have a fuse box, it's time to upgrade anyhow.


DBP suggested there may be a pull box (or pull el) in the
path from the weatherhead to the fusebox. That's perfectly legal.

On 11/04/2015 3:23 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 13:39:25 -0600, wrote:

Hence, it's coming down to there must be something going on between the
connection in the disconnect/fuse box and the weatherhead--I suppose a
packrat or some other varmint coulda' done something or perhaps there's
even a connection/junction box in that run they needed to get it
pulled--I've not yet done the full probe/investigation along the route
although it's straight up the front wall of the barn thru the loft so I
wouldn't think there would have been any need. But, there is an old
horse/mule feed bin in the corner which covers up ready access/view w/o
getting in and over it so anything is possible...


Looks to me like you need to do some major re-wiring, before a person or
animal dies..... The power from the weatherhead should go DIRECTLY to
the breaker/fuse panel, with no junction boxes in between. If you still
have a fuse box, it's time to upgrade anyhow.


DBP suggested there may be a pull box (or pull el) in the
path from the weatherhead to the fusebox. That's perfectly legal.

Indeed, folks are full of "death and destruction" scenarios that don't
fit the actual verbiage as written...

And, I just came in from a foray in the loft--as I suspected, all there
is is the el at the top; I didn't drag a ladder over and open it but I
know Dad well enough that there won't be a splice in there...

And, the fuse/disconnect box is _not_ what painted is thinking of, either...

Wind has gotten up and it's supposed to perhaps rain tomorrow so I ran
the lift back in...looks like next step is to do a resistance check on
that run but I'll have to get back up to the top to do it...

--

On 11/04/2015 4:49 PM, dpb wrote:
....

Wind has gotten up and it's supposed to perhaps rain tomorrow so I ran
the lift back in...looks like next step is to do a resistance check on
that run but I'll have to get back up to the top to do it...

Actually, as another mentioned earlier in the other thread, simplest
diagnostic here is probably to just run a temporary direct wire back
from the breaker box neutral to the connection at the weatherhed
bypassing the other box and existing wire altogether.

--

On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 17:08:07 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 11/04/2015 4:49 PM, dpb wrote:
...

Wind has gotten up and it's supposed to perhaps rain tomorrow so I ran
the lift back in...looks like next step is to do a resistance check on
that run but I'll have to get back up to the top to do it...

Actually, as another mentioned earlier in the other thread, simplest
diagnostic here is probably to just run a temporary direct wire back
from the breaker box neutral to the connection at the weatherhed
bypassing the other box and existing wire altogether.

Yep, I said I did this when my garage neutral had a problem. Assuming
your meter pole is not too far away, get a piece of #12 wire (or larger)
and connect it to the neutral in the meter pole main box neutral bar.
Run it to the weatherhead cable on the barn. Wrap it well around the
support wire. Turn on the power and check if you now have 120 - 0 - 120
using a few lightbilbs for a load. If it works, you know the problem is
between the meter pole and the weatherhead. If not, connect that wire
directly into the barn breaker box. If it still dont work, you have a
problem in that breaker box. You could also run that wire from the barn
weatherhead to the breaker box to see if the problem is between the
weatherhead and breaker box.

Of course this is only temporary and not for loads over 20A.

On 11/04/2015 4:08 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 13:39:25 -0600, wrote:

Hence, it's coming down to there must be something going on between the
connection in the disconnect/fuse box and the weatherhead--I suppose a
packrat or some other varmint coulda' done something or perhaps there's
even a connection/junction box in that run they needed to get it
pulled--I've not yet done the full probe/investigation along the route
although it's straight up the front wall of the barn thru the loft so I
wouldn't think there would have been any need. But, there is an old
horse/mule feed bin in the corner which covers up ready access/view w/o
getting in and over it so anything is possible...


Looks to me like you need to do some major re-wiring, before a person or
animal dies..... The power from the weatherhead should go DIRECTLY to
the breaker/fuse panel, with no junction boxes in between. If you still
have a fuse box, it's time to upgrade anyhow.

Doesn't "look" like anything to you; you ain't see'd it and you clearly
didn't follow the description and/or made an assumption it says
something it doesn't. One word reply--"nonsense".

There is a problem in the neutral, granted. It's still possible it's
the other end connection at the pole altho it seems peculiar with the
multiple ties at that point only one of the multiples would be bad but
it's possible.

Alternatively, as noted, there is something going on in that particular
run...

Or, I suppose, there could be a failure at the neutral block in the
breaker panel...that's a common point as well altho hard to see how as
I've checked the connection back to the disconnect both ends and
measured that resistance to make sure it wasn't a high resistance from a
near break or the like altho that would've been a fairly apparent heat
source which should have been observable.

--

Didn't you said in one posting that if you put probe on tank and other
on some kind pipe next to it that it seem to show some Voltage if
and I mean if is that the case you have TWO problems one you are
loosing ground and the other ,the heater inside of tank is leaking
and you are electrifying Water, remove power leads from heater
then check resistance between ground/tank and each individual
terminal that normally power is hook up to it, "IT SHOULD BE INFINITY"
it should show no resistance what so ever.



"dpb" wrote in message ...

On 11/04/2015 4:08 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 13:39:25 -0600, wrote:

Hence, it's coming down to there must be something going on between the
connection in the disconnect/fuse box and the weatherhead--I suppose a
packrat or some other varmint coulda' done something or perhaps there's
even a connection/junction box in that run they needed to get it
pulled--I've not yet done the full probe/investigation along the route
although it's straight up the front wall of the barn thru the loft so I
wouldn't think there would have been any need. But, there is an old
horse/mule feed bin in the corner which covers up ready access/view w/o
getting in and over it so anything is possible...


Looks to me like you need to do some major re-wiring, before a person or
animal dies..... The power from the weatherhead should go DIRECTLY to
the breaker/fuse panel, with no junction boxes in between. If you still
have a fuse box, it's time to upgrade anyhow.

Doesn't "look" like anything to you; you ain't see'd it and you clearly
didn't follow the description and/or made an assumption it says
something it doesn't. One word reply--"nonsense".

There is a problem in the neutral, granted. It's still possible it's
the other end connection at the pole altho it seems peculiar with the
multiple ties at that point only one of the multiples would be bad but
it's possible.

Alternatively, as noted, there is something going on in that particular
run...

Or, I suppose, there could be a failure at the neutral block in the
breaker panel...that's a common point as well altho hard to see how as
I've checked the connection back to the disconnect both ends and
measured that resistance to make sure it wasn't a high resistance from a
near break or the like altho that would've been a fairly apparent heat
source which should have been observable.

--

On 11/04/2015 5:38 PM, tony944 wrote:
Didn't you said in one posting that if you put probe on tank and other
on some kind pipe next to it that it seem to show some Voltage ...


Nope....that was some other thread entirely.

--

On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 18:08:10 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 11/04/2015 5:38 PM, tony944 wrote:
Didn't you said in one posting that if you put probe on tank and other
on some kind pipe next to it that it seem to show some Voltage ...


Nope....that was some other thread entirely.

Try using a drill or other substantial load on each 120 volt side while
monitoring the voltage on the other side to points from the neutral wire
into the panel forward along the neutral path.
No voltage change ( or very little change ) on good neutral points. Bad
neutral point should show change with load on other side.
--
Mr.E

On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 16:56:06 -0600, dpb wrote:


There is a problem in the neutral, granted. It's still possible it's
the other end connection at the pole altho it seems peculiar with the
multiple ties at that point only one of the multiples would be bad but
it's possible.

It's MORE than Possible! I've seen those multiple wire connections where
one of the wires is not well into the clamp (split bolt), or one cable
corroded or burnt off and you cant see it under all the tape. I actually
saw at a farm with multiple barns, where all the barns connected to one
pole, and the barns were running too many livestock fans and other stuff
on a very hot day, when all of a sudden there was a shower of sparks
falling from that pole, and one of the barns lost power while the others
still had power. I dont know if it was a hot or a neutral, but one of
the connections fried. An electrician was called.

On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 07:14:32 -0600, wrote:

On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 16:56:06 -0600, dpb wrote:


There is a problem in the neutral, granted. It's still possible it's
the other end connection at the pole altho it seems peculiar with the
multiple ties at that point only one of the multiples would be bad but
it's possible.

It's MORE than Possible! I've seen those multiple wire connections where
one of the wires is not well into the clamp (split bolt), or one cable
corroded or burnt off and you cant see it under all the tape. I actually
saw at a farm with multiple barns, where all the barns connected to one
pole, and the barns were running too many livestock fans and other stuff
on a very hot day, when all of a sudden there was a shower of sparks
falling from that pole, and one of the barns lost power while the others
still had power. I dont know if it was a hot or a neutral, but one of
the connections fried. An electrician was called.
Quite often each searate "run" will be connected to the "main
cable with it's own split bolt connector - and any one or all of them
can be affected by atmospheric conditiond, wind movement, or just
plain poor workmanship 30 years ago when they were installed.

On 11/05/2015 6:56 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 07:14:32 -0600, wrote:

On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 16:56:06 -0600, wrote:


There is a problem in the neutral, granted. It's still possible it's
the other end connection at the pole altho it seems peculiar with the
multiple ties at that point only one of the multiples would be bad but
it's possible.

It's MORE than Possible! I've seen those multiple wire connections where
one of the wires is not well into the clamp (split bolt), or one cable
corroded or burnt off and you cant see it under all the tape. I actually
saw at a farm with multiple barns, where all the barns connected to one
pole, and the barns were running too many livestock fans and other stuff
on a very hot day, when all of a sudden there was a shower of sparks
falling from that pole, and one of the barns lost power while the others
still had power. I dont know if it was a hot or a neutral, but one of
the connections fried. An electrician was called.
Quite often each searate "run" will be connected to the "main
cable with it's own split bolt connector - and any one or all of them
can be affected by atmospheric conditiond, wind movement, or just
plain poor workmanship 30 years ago when they were installed.

Those are crimped; REA ran them. Doesn't mean one can't have failed,
just less likely methinks.

But the front blew thru last night and looks like wind will be down some
today so perhaps can find the time to get to it again...altho it rained
enough with the 4+" had last week it may be a little dicey getting the
lift around; it's not articulated 2WD instead of 4 and at 12,000 lb
isn't a good mud vehicle at all...

--

Put a couple of 100 watt light bulbs on each side of the 240V lines to neutral. Measure the voltages, they should each be about 1/2 of the 240 line to line voltage. Then turn off one of the four bulbs, so that you still have a load on each side, but one is twice the load of the other. Measure the voltages again. The voltage across the single bulb should be well over 120V, and the voltage across the two paralleled bulbs should be well under 120V.. Do this quickly as the single bulb may burn out very quickly due to the over-voltage.