On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 12:01:41 PM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 10:56:42 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 11:45:35 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:

The default values in his CMOS memory are presumably sufficient
for operation. He may not be getting optimal performance from
his system, however.

I'm fine with all except the last part. After what you posted,
isn't the alternative and more likely situation that Mr. Coombs
PC has the BIOS setup actually stored in Flash or EEPROM and hence
it doesn't lose them even though it has a dead battery?

Keep grasping as stars...that's what dreamers do.

Keep lying instead of admitting you're wrong. Again, from AMI,
a leading supplier of BIOSs:

"Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."


Exactly what I said.....

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 08:04:57 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 7:16:19 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 8:24:16 PM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:

CMOS is static RAM that works with the flash BIOS...it requires
battery backup.

I know what CMOS RAM is, it's 40 year old technology. That's
why for a long time, the settings have been stored in Flash memory
now, because it doesn't require battery backup. As I said, AFAIK,
the
only thing that requires a battery is the clock.

As per usual, you contradict yourself, "...for a long time"-"AFAIK"!

I have a (dead now) Tosh laptop that had a dead CMOS battery . The only
thing that was ever affected is the clock if I let it drain the (main)
battery .
If you had changed any bios settings from default they would also have
been lost, ut on Tosh laptops the factory installed ramand drive specs
were urned into the bios as default, so there was very little to
customize.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 08:10:06 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 9:10:21 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 9:40:49 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 8:15:12 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 8:34:45 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 7:16:19 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 8:24:16 PM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:

CMOS is static RAM that works with the flash BIOS...it requires battery backup.

I know what CMOS RAM is, it's 40 year old technology. That's
why for a long time, the settings have been stored in Flash memory now,
because it doesn't require battery backup. As I said, AFAIK, the
only thing that requires a battery is the clock.

As per usual, you contradict yourself, "...for a long time"-"AFAIK"!

No, as usual, you're making things up. Nothing I said there is
contradictory. Think about this, Flash has been available for over
two decades, EEPROM even longer. They are non-volatile inexpensive
and don't require a battery. Flash is even used for the Bios, so it
would be very easy to use a tiny section of that to also store the
setup data, it would essentially be free.

So now you're talking hypothetically, "...so it would be very easy...", but not factual! And you're saying flash, when in fact they use NVRAM...try not to guess at things!

Take a look at my post, where I quoted AMI which is an actual
major supplier of BIOS and similar technology to the PC industry.
They make the software that stores the BIOS data, they certainly
know where it's stored. That's about as "factual" as you can
get. Here, they directly address the issue:

"Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."

http://www.ami.com/support/faqs/

Note that is consistent with what Mr. Coombs just posted. He has
a laptop with a dead CMOS battery and he says it works just fine,
the only thing he loses is the date/time.

The 2nd time you referred to your cohort to back-up your blathering...his CMOS could have been marginal, holding settings but not RTC.
Why doesn't everbody plonk the trader - then I wouldn't have to catch
his drivel second and third hand.

bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 10:56:42 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 11:45:35 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:

The default values in his CMOS memory are presumably sufficient
for operation. He may not be getting optimal performance from
his system, however.

I'm fine with all except the last part. After what you posted,
isn't the alternative and more likely situation that Mr. Coombs
PC has the BIOS setup actually stored in Flash or EEPROM and hence
it doesn't lose them even though it has a dead battery?

Keep grasping as stars...that's what dreamers do.

Try pulling your head out of your ass , you're wrong and you just need to
admit it . Oh , and I'm nobodies "cohort" , just relaying real life
experience . Can you explain the motherboard that I installed in a different
laptop - it had no CMOS power supply at all when it arrived . Worked just
fine , the settings must have magically appeared outta my ass when I plugged
it all up .
--
Snag
Is your membership in the
ID-10-T club up-to-date?

"Mayayana" wrote in
:

| I'd appreciate any hints on safely removing and replacing the CMOS
| battery on my old Compaq. Any suggestions? I hear some are VERY
| difficult to remove!
|

It shouldn't be. Just pop it out. Then don't
dally in replacing it with a new one. The role
of the battery is to power BIOS memory when
the computer is not plugged in. If it's left out
for too long the settings can be lost. It's always a
good idea, just to be safe, to boot into the
BIOS first, if possible, and write down the current
settings. I once got a call from my very elderly
father to fix his PC. He'd been mucking around in
the BIOS and apparently set everyting to factory
default. But for whatever reason that wasn't good.
The computer was rebooitng as soon as it booted.
If you're not familiar with BIOS settings then it's
a good idea to know what yours are in case you
lose them.




Current battery dead. Computer doesn't know date, time, how much RAM it
has, etc.


--
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

trader_4 wrote in
:

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 5:59:57 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 10:57:39 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| I'd appreciate any hints on safely removing and replacing the CMOS
| battery on my old Compaq. Any suggestions? I hear some are VERY
| difficult to remove!
|

It shouldn't be. Just pop it out. Then don't
dally in replacing it with a new one. The role
of the battery is to power BIOS memory when
the computer is not plugged in. If it's left out
for too long the settings can be lost. It's always a
good idea, just to be safe, to boot into the
BIOS first, if possible, and write down the current
settings. I once got a call from my very elderly
father to fix his PC. He'd been mucking around in
the BIOS and apparently set everyting to factory
default. But for whatever reason that wasn't good.
The computer was rebooitng as soon as it booted.
If you're not familiar with BIOS settings then it's
a good idea to know what yours are in case you
lose them.

If the Cmos battery is DEAD the settings are already either totally
lost or compromized.

I don't think so. Motherboards switched to using Flash memory
to hold those setting a long time ago. It's
part of the flash bios. AFAIK, the only thing that needs
the battery now is the clock.

This one's 14 years old, Needs CMOS for date, time, RAM size, etc.
Battery is dead.



--
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 08:10:06 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 9:10:21 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 9:40:49 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 8:15:12 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 8:34:45 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 7:16:19 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 8:24:16 PM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:

CMOS is static RAM that works with the flash BIOS...it requires battery backup.

I know what CMOS RAM is, it's 40 year old technology. That's
why for a long time, the settings have been stored in Flash memory now,
because it doesn't require battery backup. As I said, AFAIK, the
only thing that requires a battery is the clock.

As per usual, you contradict yourself, "...for a long time"-"AFAIK"!

No, as usual, you're making things up. Nothing I said there is
contradictory. Think about this, Flash has been available for over
two decades, EEPROM even longer. They are non-volatile inexpensive
and don't require a battery. Flash is even used for the Bios, so it
would be very easy to use a tiny section of that to also store the
setup data, it would essentially be free.

So now you're talking hypothetically, "...so it would be very easy...", but not factual! And you're saying flash, when in fact they use NVRAM...try not to guess at things!

Take a look at my post, where I quoted AMI which is an actual
major supplier of BIOS and similar technology to the PC industry.
They make the software that stores the BIOS data, they certainly
know where it's stored. That's about as "factual" as you can
get. Here, they directly address the issue:

"Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."

http://www.ami.com/support/faqs/

Note that is consistent with what Mr. Coombs just posted. He has
a laptop with a dead CMOS battery and he says it works just fine,
the only thing he loses is the date/time.

The 2nd time you referred to your cohort to back-up your blathering...his CMOS could have been marginal, holding settings but not RTC.
Why doesn't everbody plonk the trader - then I wouldn't have to catch
his drivel second and third hand.

Why don't you go plonk yourself? As dumb as you are, with as
many totally wrong posts, especially on electrical code issues,
I still haven't "plonked" you and would never call for anyone
else to do so. By ignoring people, you're just living in your
own little world, which leads to, well, being dumb.

And note, instead of the ad hominem attack, why not just address
the issuem where I was correct and what I posted to support it?

AMI:

"Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 06:27:02 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."

+1

My Gigabyte (EP45-UD3P) motherboard has a dual BIOS. If one corrupts
for some odd reason, you can boot to the other. Then flash the other
again.

DualBios (trademark)

| Current battery dead. Computer doesn't know date, time, how much RAM it
| has, etc.
|

There's really nothing you have to worry about.
Just avoid shorting anything on the board, and
ground yourself before proceeding. You may have
to adjust the BIOS afterward, but that can't be
helped.

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 12:33:50 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
Worked just
fine, the settings must have magically appeared outta my ass when I plugged
it all up.


Precisely...just where your thought process originates. (and your ability to punctuate properly!)

bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 12:33:50 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
Worked just
fine, the settings must have magically appeared outta my ass when I
plugged it all up.


Precisely...just where your thought process originates. (and your
ability to punctuate properly!)

Oh , **** you . I do it because it drives anal-retentive dickheads
like you nuts . Though in your case that's more like a putt ...
--
Snag
Doood , you are just plain wrong about the need for a CMOS for
anything other than the RTC .

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 16:42:26 -0500, Curmudgeon
wrote:

On 7/10/2015 12:58 PM, trader_4 wrote:

"Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."


Exactly, and even the RTC doesn't matter (to me anyway) since the OS
retrieves the time and resets the RTC immediately after system boot.

Bingo.

....though it may not work in older systems.

On 7/9/2015 2:59 PM, wrote:

If the Cmos battery is DEAD the settings are already either totally
lost or compromized.
Usually not the case. Starting with ATX power supplies, the CMOS memory
was maintained by Vstandby, which was 5V coming from the power supply,
when the computer was off, not the battery (Vbat). This enabled
manufacturers to move from those big Tadiran batteries to the 2032 coin
cells since the battery only had to power the CMOS when the computer was
not connected to the mains.

The mistake some people made (and still make) is to disconnect the
computer from the mains with a power strip after it is turned off. This
forces the CMOS to be maintained by the battery.

So if the computer hasn't been unplugged, even if the CMOS battery is
dead the settings are retained.

It's less of an issue now that the setting are stored in flash (other
than the RTC).

On 7/9/2015 5:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 17:24:06 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 6:44:23 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 5:59:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 10:57:39 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| I'd appreciate any hints on safely removing and replacing the CMOS battery
| on my old Compaq. Any suggestions? I hear some are VERY difficult to
| remove!
|

It shouldn't be. Just pop it out. Then don't
dally in replacing it with a new one. The role
of the battery is to power BIOS memory when
the computer is not plugged in. If it's left out
for too long the settings can be lost. It's always a
good idea, just to be safe, to boot into the
BIOS first, if possible, and write down the current
settings. I once got a call from my very elderly
father to fix his PC. He'd been mucking around in
the BIOS and apparently set everyting to factory
default. But for whatever reason that wasn't good.
The computer was rebooitng as soon as it booted.
If you're not familiar with BIOS settings then it's
a good idea to know what yours are in case you
lose them.

If the Cmos battery is DEAD the settings are already either totally
lost or compromized.

I don't think so. Motherboards switched to using Flash memory
to hold those setting a long time ago. It's
part of the flash bios. AFAIK, the only thing that needs
the battery now is the clock.

CMOS is static RAM that works with the flash BIOS...it requires battery backup.
On MOST systems this is true.Some have a bios bootstrap that pulls
the bios information off the SDRAM.

Remember the AT class computers that used the real-time clock chip
with the built-in battery (Harris Semiconductors)?

Dallas.

On 7/10/2015 12:58 PM, trader_4 wrote:

"Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."


Exactly, and even the RTC doesn't matter (to me anyway) since the OS
retrieves the time and resets the RTC immediately after system boot.

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 4:28:10 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2015 2:59 PM, wrote:

If the Cmos battery is DEAD the settings are already either totally
lost or compromized.
Usually not the case. Starting with ATX power supplies, the CMOS memory
was maintained by Vstandby, which was 5V coming from the power supply,
when the computer was off, not the battery (Vbat). This enabled
manufacturers to move from those big Tadiran batteries to the 2032 coin
cells since the battery only had to power the CMOS when the computer was
not connected to the mains.

The mistake some people made (and still make) is to disconnect the
computer from the mains with a power strip after it is turned off. This
forces the CMOS to be maintained by the battery.

So if the computer hasn't been unplugged, even if the CMOS battery is
dead the settings are retained.

It's less of an issue now that the setting are stored in flash (other
than the RTC).

....and, if put the PC in sleep mode (even with a dead Cmos battery) no ill will come of it!

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 14:29:53 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 7/9/2015 5:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 17:24:06 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 6:44:23 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 5:59:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 10:57:39 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| I'd appreciate any hints on safely removing and replacing the CMOS battery
| on my old Compaq. Any suggestions? I hear some are VERY difficult to
| remove!
|

It shouldn't be. Just pop it out. Then don't
dally in replacing it with a new one. The role
of the battery is to power BIOS memory when
the computer is not plugged in. If it's left out
for too long the settings can be lost. It's always a
good idea, just to be safe, to boot into the
BIOS first, if possible, and write down the current
settings. I once got a call from my very elderly
father to fix his PC. He'd been mucking around in
the BIOS and apparently set everyting to factory
default. But for whatever reason that wasn't good.
The computer was rebooitng as soon as it booted.
If you're not familiar with BIOS settings then it's
a good idea to know what yours are in case you
lose them.

If the Cmos battery is DEAD the settings are already either totally
lost or compromized.

I don't think so. Motherboards switched to using Flash memory
to hold those setting a long time ago. It's
part of the flash bios. AFAIK, the only thing that needs
the battery now is the clock.

CMOS is static RAM that works with the flash BIOS...it requires battery backup.
On MOST systems this is true.Some have a bios bootstrap that pulls
the bios information off the SDRAM.

Remember the AT class computers that used the real-time clock chip
with the built-in battery (Harris Semiconductors)?

Dallas.
Correct.

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 12:20:53 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 08:10:06 -0700 (PDT), bob_villa
wrote:

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 9:10:21 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 9:40:49 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 8:15:12 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 8:34:45 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 7:16:19 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 8:24:16 PM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:

CMOS is static RAM that works with the flash BIOS...it requires battery backup.

I know what CMOS RAM is, it's 40 year old technology. That's
why for a long time, the settings have been stored in Flash memory now,
because it doesn't require battery backup. As I said, AFAIK, the
only thing that requires a battery is the clock.

As per usual, you contradict yourself, "...for a long time"-"AFAIK"!

No, as usual, you're making things up. Nothing I said there is
contradictory. Think about this, Flash has been available for over
two decades, EEPROM even longer. They are non-volatile inexpensive
and don't require a battery. Flash is even used for the Bios, so it
would be very easy to use a tiny section of that to also store the
setup data, it would essentially be free.

So now you're talking hypothetically, "...so it would be very easy....", but not factual! And you're saying flash, when in fact they use NVRAM....try not to guess at things!

Take a look at my post, where I quoted AMI which is an actual
major supplier of BIOS and similar technology to the PC industry.
They make the software that stores the BIOS data, they certainly
know where it's stored. That's about as "factual" as you can
get. Here, they directly address the issue:

"Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."

http://www.ami.com/support/faqs/

Note that is consistent with what Mr. Coombs just posted. He has
a laptop with a dead CMOS battery and he says it works just fine,
the only thing he loses is the date/time.

The 2nd time you referred to your cohort to back-up your blathering...his CMOS could have been marginal, holding settings but not RTC.
Why doesn't everbody plonk the trader - then I wouldn't have to catch
his drivel second and third hand.

You could always take a vacation from Usenet if it upsets you so bad. Writing what others might think of as drivel is what a free and open forum is all about. Perhaps someone doesn't like what you have to say, would you want that person imploring of everyone that you should be blocked? A good self-righteous whack-job or moonbat is someone who can provide hours of entertainment. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wacky Monster

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 1:16:44 PM UTC-4, wrote:

I have a (dead now) Tosh laptop that had a dead CMOS battery . The only
thing that was ever affected is the clock if I let it drain the (main)
battery .


If you had changed any bios settings from default they would also have
been lost, ut on Tosh laptops the factory installed ramand drive specs
were urned into the bios as default, so there was very little to
customize.

Some will never learn.... Once again, from AMI, a leading supplier
of BIOSs to the PC industry:

http://www.ami.com/support/faqs/

"Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."

Completely consistent with what Mr. Coombs is reporting happens with
his computer.

Or From Wikipedia:

"Nonvolatile BIOS memory refers to a small memory on PC motherboards that is used to store BIOS settings. It was traditionally called CMOS RAM because it used a volatile, low-power complementary metal-oxide-semiconductor (CMOS) SRAM (such as the Motorola MC146818 or similar) powered by a small battery when system power was off (called the CMOS battery).

The term remains in wide use but it has grown into a misnomer: nonvolatile storage in contemporary computers is often in EEPROM or flash memory (like the BIOS code itself); the remaining usage for the battery is then to keep the real-time clock (RTC) going."

Just the facts Clare and note that I'm not calling on anyone to plonk,
or censor you.

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 11:48:05 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
trader_4 writes:
On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 8:44:42 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
I know you will nitpick this to death...so I offer-up this from Tom's Har=
dwa=20
=20
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...calculate-con=
sumption,3066-10.html

You have Toms, but how about American Megatrends, (AMI) which is
a major supplier of BIOS technology to the PC industry. They
should know where the BIOS setup is actually stored today:

http://www.ami.com/support/faqs/

Historically, the BIOS and its settings were stored into CMOS (complementar=
y metal-oxide semiconductor) and was commonly referred to as the CMOS Setup=
. The CMOS and Real-Time Clock (RTC) required an electric charge to maintai=
n their settings. This was typically performed by an on-board battery. As t=
he battery aged, the electrical charge that maintained the CMOS settings di=
minished. The BIOS and RTC would then revert to its default settings, resul=
ting in, "Press F1 to enter the CMOS setup."

Note: The terms CMOS setup and BIOS setup were frequently used interchangea=
bly in the 1990s and far into the 2000s.

Beginning in the late 1990s, main board manufacturers started to store the =
BIOS into flash memory. There are two benefits for doing this.

*Flash memory does not require a charge to maintain its settings.
*The size of the BIOS can be increased.

Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is r=
equired to maintain the main board's RTC settings."


Pay close attention to that last sentence. It's *exactly* what I said.
Now, to be sure, I can't say every MB implementation is done that way.
Which is why I said "AFAIK". And to be fair, from Googling I saw other
sources saying the setup is still stored in CMOS. A big part of the
problem is that it's all referred to, based on past history,
as CMOS setup, regardless of where it's actually stored.

Finally, we have the post Mr. Combs just made, where he says he
has a Toshiba laptop with a dead battery and the only thing it
ever lost was the clock. If the BIOS setup is in CMOS, how do
you explain that?

Easy - the default values are sufficient for his level of operations.

http://www.bioscentral.com/misc/cmosmap.htm

I agree, that's one possibility. But if it's lost it's BIOS
settings, you would think that when it boots it would come up
with a warning message, telling you it's been lost, asking you
if you want to continue to boot, etc. He's not seeing that.

The other possibility is that like AMI and other sources say,
the BIOS settings in his PC are stored in Flash or other non-volatile
memory. I don't see why all PC manufacturers would not be doing that.
It's either free or tiny cost and it eliminates bad things happening
due to a battery. You'd think just the relief from people calling
their helplines, etc, it would be well worth it to build a better
product.

"KenK" wrote in message ...

I'd appreciate any hints on safely removing and replacing the CMOS battery
on my old Compaq. Any suggestions? I hear some are VERY difficult to
remove.


Removal of these batteries is tricky when using a large jackhammer. That is
for sure.

On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 9:10:15 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

The other possibility is that like AMI and other sources say,
the BIOS settings in his PC are stored in Flash or other non-volatile
memory. I don't see why all PC manufacturers would not be doing that.
It's either free or tiny cost and it eliminates bad things happening
due to a battery. You'd think just the relief from people calling
their helplines, etc, it would be well worth it to build a better
product.

Again your *logic* is flawed...what do manufacturers care about 5 to 7 yrs after purchase. They would want you to buy new, of course. Would they be willing to add a few cents to the design for that time to please a customer? Get real...
Of course the designers push for these things...and eventually are incorporated into a build, much to their frustration.
As always, you push your *talking points* to support your *thinking*...when often it is not the case.

On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 10:37:57 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 9:10:15 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

The other possibility is that like AMI and other sources say,
the BIOS settings in his PC are stored in Flash or other non-volatile
memory. I don't see why all PC manufacturers would not be doing that.
It's either free or tiny cost and it eliminates bad things happening
due to a battery. You'd think just the relief from people calling
their helplines, etc, it would be well worth it to build a better
product.

Again your *logic* is flawed...what do manufacturers care about 5 to 7 yrs after purchase.

Again, here's what the leading BIOS manufacturer, AMI says:

"Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."

Can you read? Who knows more about what manufacturers are doing?
You or AMI that provides the actual BIOS software that does the
setup storage?

As to why a manufacturer would care about what customers think about
their product 6 or 7 years out, obviously you've never been involved
in a real and successful business. You want customers happy, so they
will buy their next PC from you. That's one very good reason. And
when you can do that at zero, or close to zero cost, good businesses,
particularly high tech ones, do it. But being a socialist loon, I'm
sure you wouldn't know much about business.


As always, you push your *talking points* to support your *thinking*...when often it is not the case.

It's not my thinking. I've given you several sources, including AMI,
quoted above *again*. They say *exactly* what I said in my first
post, that you disagreed with. And it's not just me here saying it,
several other posters agree, including Mr. Coombs, who you promptly
attacked for no reason.

Stop, just stop, instead of further discrediting yourself.

On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 10:22:35 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 10:37:57 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 9:10:15 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

The other possibility is that like AMI and other sources say,
the BIOS settings in his PC are stored in Flash or other non-volatile
memory. I don't see why all PC manufacturers would not be doing that.
It's either free or tiny cost and it eliminates bad things happening
due to a battery. You'd think just the relief from people calling
their helplines, etc, it would be well worth it to build a better
product.

Again your *logic* is flawed...what do manufacturers care about 5 to 7 yrs after purchase.

Again, here's what the leading BIOS manufacturer, AMI says:

"Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."

Can you read? Who knows more about what manufacturers are doing?
You or AMI that provides the actual BIOS software that does the
setup storage?

As to why a manufacturer would care about what customers think about
their product 6 or 7 years out, obviously you've never been involved
in a real and successful business. You want customers happy, so they
will buy their next PC from you. That's one very good reason. And
when you can do that at zero, or close to zero cost, good businesses,
particularly high tech ones, do it. But being a socialist loon, I'm
sure you wouldn't know much about business.


As always, you push your *talking points* to support your *thinking*...when often it is not the case.

It's not my thinking. I've given you several sources, including AMI,
quoted above *again*. They say *exactly* what I said in my first
post, that you disagreed with. And it's not just me here saying it,
several other posters agree, including Mr. Coombs, who you promptly
attacked for no reason.

Stop, just stop, instead of further discrediting yourself.

Mr. combs, mr. comes, mr. combs, come to my rescue! Manufactures care about as much as a conservative (or liberal) after they're elected! And you live in the *real* world...I thought only liberals were *pie-in-the-sky* idealists?

bob_villa wrote:
On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 10:22:35 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 10:37:57 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:
On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 9:10:15 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

The other possibility is that like AMI and other sources say,
the BIOS settings in his PC are stored in Flash or other
non-volatile memory. I don't see why all PC manufacturers would
not be doing that. It's either free or tiny cost and it eliminates
bad things happening due to a battery. You'd think just the
relief from people calling their helplines, etc, it would be well
worth it to build a better product.

Again your *logic* is flawed...what do manufacturers care about 5
to 7 yrs after purchase.

Again, here's what the leading BIOS manufacturer, AMI says:

"Note: Although the BIOS settings are stored in Flash memory, a
battery is required to maintain the main board's RTC settings."

Can you read? Who knows more about what manufacturers are doing?
You or AMI that provides the actual BIOS software that does the
setup storage?

As to why a manufacturer would care about what customers think about
their product 6 or 7 years out, obviously you've never been involved
in a real and successful business. You want customers happy, so they
will buy their next PC from you. That's one very good reason. And
when you can do that at zero, or close to zero cost, good businesses,
particularly high tech ones, do it. But being a socialist loon, I'm
sure you wouldn't know much about business.


As always, you push your *talking points* to support your
*thinking*...when often it is not the case.

It's not my thinking. I've given you several sources, including AMI,
quoted above *again*. They say *exactly* what I said in my first
post, that you disagreed with. And it's not just me here saying it,
several other posters agree, including Mr. Coombs, who you promptly
attacked for no reason.

Stop, just stop, instead of further discrediting yourself.

Mr. combs, mr. comes, mr. combs, come to my rescue! Manufactures care
about as much as a conservative (or liberal) after they're elected!
And you live in the *real* world...I thought only liberals were
*pie-in-the-sky* idealists?

It's Coombs , that is : C double 0h em bee-ess , with the emphasis on Bee
Ess . I don't know why you're looking to me for validation , I think you're
just another idiot troll . With low self-esteem and poor reading
comprehension . And bad breath too ...
Oh , and the only thing the CMOS battery powers in any of the 5 computers
I have set up and running here is the RTC . Examples include an e-machine ,
a HP , a Tosh laptop , and 2 homebuilts running Asus M2A-VM mobo's with AMD
Athlon X2 processors .
--
Snag

On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 3:25:18 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:

It's Coombs, that is: C double 0h em bee-ess, with the emphasis on Bee
Ess. I don't know why you're looking to me for validation, I think you're
just another idiot troll.


I spell it *combs* because it drives anal-retentive dickheads
like you nuts. (I get the emphasis on the BS part!)
And it's your cohort looking for validation, as if you didn't know.

bob_villa wrote:
On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 3:25:18 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:

It's Coombs, that is: C double 0h em bee-ess, with the emphasis on
Bee Ess. I don't know why you're looking to me for validation, I
think you're just another idiot troll.


I spell it *combs* because it drives anal-retentive dickheads
like you nuts. (I get the emphasis on the BS part!)
And it's your cohort looking for validation, as if you didn't know.

If you go back to Ye Olde Englishe , it's spelled both ways . There's
supposed to be some "royal blood" back there in my lineage somewhere , so
bow before me knave !

--
Snag