"Norminn" wrote in message
...
clipped
Muriatic is the last thing I would use without an expert mason's advice.
How large an area is involved? More than your picture? A simple
disguise with paint might be much more satisfactory than trying to
remove mortar....acryllic paint in two or three shades from brick, stiff
brush. I did some cover-up on a concrete floor after a condo neighbor
slopped walnut stain all over it. It is hard to get any kind of paint
out of mortar, so it won't come off easily. I would start with the
darkest shade from the brick, then dabble over part of that, mottling so
that some of each color shows. If you are half-way skilled at matching
colors, it might be a satisfactory fix. I would certainly not let the
moron who did this touch it again!

The story gets much, MUCH worse. The very helpful neighbor who recommended
him pretty much begged me to give him a chance to fix what he had done. I
REALLY didn't want to, but some things you have to do just to keep the peace
and at least seem to be fair.

He came back to "fix it" with 2 gallons of 37% HCl acid. He starts just
pouring it from the bottle right on the bricks. Holy crap! Oodles of red,
bubbling foam form up and of course he has no hose or rinse water standing
by (I did, though).

We rinse it off quickly (it was eating the brick, too - that's where the red
came from) and then he goes to dilute it half and half. FWIW, I had him
start his "demonstration" of what he intended to do to fix it on the
backside of the porch that no one really ever sees. Before I can warn him,
he decided to change to a plastic milk jug and dilute the mix, which he did
backwards (water into acid). After that very impressive boilover, he
switched to a spray bottle (no gloves, respirator or goggles, mind you!!!).
His lungs must be burning today because he was spritzing that stuff at eye
level for about an hour.

Then, just as I have had enough, his wife and two year old daughter arrived
to help. Really. You can't make this stuff up. Then I turn to see my
"pseudo-mason" starting to chip away at the excess, HCl-soaked mortar at eye
level without goggles. That was the last straw. Since he was a friend of a
very helpful neighbor, I needed a lot of "evidence" to convict him of
incompetence and send him away. I certainly got it in a very short time.
(Some would say I already had more than enough!) Letting his little girl
run around the jobsite with acid sitting around was unbelievable to me. I
thought of what I would say in court if she got hurt. Thinking about the
liability I said "Pack it up, you're going home." I told him that he said
he knew how to do this, but he didn't even know to use a mortar sponge -
that's all there is to it. I said "it's not my fault - it's yours. I don't
want to have the whole place slathered in acid (by this time my eyes and
throat were burning!!) while you spend days trying to fix what should have
never happened." He packed up (telling me he had another friend coming by
to help but I didn't care) and left. I suspect he knew how badly he had
screwed up and bringing the family was a sympathy ploy that backfired as
badly as his mortar work did. I think this is the worst job I have ever had
a worker do. A repainting (without prep) of the wood porch supports was
pretty damn bad, but that was easy to fix - do it again with proper scraping
and prep. But this bad brickwork would have taken about three days to fix,
at least according to how long it took to clean 10 bricks with a brush (when
the mortar wasn't thorough set).

Today a friend is coming and we're going to see if a power washer does any
better. It's really only a test for future reference because the porch
pretty much has to come down and be replaced by a sunroom/mudroom. This
fiasco merely forced my hand and made me resolute to NEVER "hire this guy
because he's been out of work, has a kid, a pregnant wife, sob, sob, sob."

I came back inside and took my BP which really spiked from the conflict. I
guess I am getting too damn old to deal with bald-faced liars anymore.
frown

OK - onto the power washer. Since it's removed plenty of things that I
didn't want removed before, maybe this time it will clear some of the
mortar.

TKS

In ,
Texas Kingsnake typed:
"Norminn" wrote in message
...
clipped
Muriatic is the last thing I would use without an expert mason's
advice. How large an area is involved? More than your picture? A
simple disguise with paint might be much more satisfactory than
trying to remove mortar....acryllic paint in two or three shades
from brick, stiff brush. I did some cover-up on a concrete floor
after a condo neighbor slopped walnut stain all over it. It is hard
to get any kind of paint out of mortar, so it won't come off easily.
I would start with the darkest shade from the brick, then dabble
over part of that, mottling so that some of each color shows. If
you are half-way skilled at matching colors, it might be a
satisfactory fix. I would certainly not let the moron who did this
touch it again!

The story gets much, MUCH worse. The very helpful neighbor who
recommended him pretty much begged me to give him a chance to fix
what he had done. I REALLY didn't want to, but some things you have
to do just to keep the peace and at least seem to be fair.

He came back to "fix it" with 2 gallons of 37% HCl acid. He starts
just pouring it from the bottle right on the bricks. Holy crap!
Oodles of red, bubbling foam form up and of course he has no hose or
rinse water standing by (I did, though).

We rinse it off quickly (it was eating the brick, too - that's where
the red came from) and then he goes to dilute it half and half.
FWIW, I had him start his "demonstration" of what he intended to do
to fix it on the backside of the porch that no one really ever sees.
Before I can warn him, he decided to change to a plastic milk jug and
dilute the mix, which he did backwards (water into acid). After that
very impressive boilover, he switched to a spray bottle (no gloves,
respirator or goggles, mind you!!!). His lungs must be burning today
because he was spritzing that stuff at eye level for about an hour.

Then, just as I have had enough, his wife and two year old daughter
arrived to help. Really. You can't make this stuff up. Then I turn
to see my "pseudo-mason" starting to chip away at the excess,
HCl-soaked mortar at eye level without goggles. That was the last
straw. Since he was a friend of a very helpful neighbor, I needed a
lot of "evidence" to convict him of incompetence and send him away.
I certainly got it in a very short time. (Some would say I already
had more than enough!) Letting his little girl run around the
jobsite with acid sitting around was unbelievable to me. I thought
of what I would say in court if she got hurt. Thinking about the
liability I said "Pack it up, you're going home." I told him that he
said he knew how to do this, but he didn't even know to use a mortar
sponge - that's all there is to it. I said "it's not my fault - it's
yours. I don't want to have the whole place slathered in acid (by
this time my eyes and throat were burning!!) while you spend days
trying to fix what should have never happened." He packed up
(telling me he had another friend coming by to help but I didn't
care) and left. I suspect he knew how badly he had screwed up and
bringing the family was a sympathy ploy that backfired as badly as
his mortar work did. I think this is the worst job I have ever had a
worker do. A repainting (without prep) of the wood porch supports
was pretty damn bad, but that was easy to fix - do it again with
proper scraping and prep. But this bad brickwork would have taken
about three days to fix, at least according to how long it took to
clean 10 bricks with a brush (when the mortar wasn't thorough set).

Today a friend is coming and we're going to see if a power washer
does any better. It's really only a test for future reference
because the porch pretty much has to come down and be replaced by a
sunroom/mudroom. This fiasco merely forced my hand and made me
resolute to NEVER "hire this guy because he's been out of work, has a
kid, a pregnant wife, sob, sob, sob."

I came back inside and took my BP which really spiked from the
conflict. I guess I am getting too damn old to deal with bald-faced
liars anymore. frown

OK - onto the power washer. Since it's removed plenty of things that
I didn't want removed before, maybe this time it will clear some of
the mortar.

Yikes! Interesting story.

On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 9:41:44 AM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
In ,
Texas Kingsnake typed:
"Norminn" wrote in message
...
clipped
Muriatic is the last thing I would use without an expert mason's
advice. How large an area is involved? More than your picture? A
simple disguise with paint might be much more satisfactory than
trying to remove mortar....acryllic paint in two or three shades
from brick, stiff brush. I did some cover-up on a concrete floor
after a condo neighbor slopped walnut stain all over it. It is hard
to get any kind of paint out of mortar, so it won't come off easily.
I would start with the darkest shade from the brick, then dabble
over part of that, mottling so that some of each color shows. If
you are half-way skilled at matching colors, it might be a
satisfactory fix. I would certainly not let the moron who did this
touch it again!

The story gets much, MUCH worse. The very helpful neighbor who
recommended him pretty much begged me to give him a chance to fix
what he had done. I REALLY didn't want to, but some things you have
to do just to keep the peace and at least seem to be fair.

He came back to "fix it" with 2 gallons of 37% HCl acid. He starts
just pouring it from the bottle right on the bricks. Holy crap!
Oodles of red, bubbling foam form up and of course he has no hose or
rinse water standing by (I did, though).

We rinse it off quickly (it was eating the brick, too - that's where
the red came from) and then he goes to dilute it half and half.
FWIW, I had him start his "demonstration" of what he intended to do
to fix it on the backside of the porch that no one really ever sees.
Before I can warn him, he decided to change to a plastic milk jug and
dilute the mix, which he did backwards (water into acid). After that
very impressive boilover, he switched to a spray bottle (no gloves,
respirator or goggles, mind you!!!). His lungs must be burning today
because he was spritzing that stuff at eye level for about an hour.

Then, just as I have had enough, his wife and two year old daughter
arrived to help. Really. You can't make this stuff up. Then I turn
to see my "pseudo-mason" starting to chip away at the excess,
HCl-soaked mortar at eye level without goggles. That was the last
straw. Since he was a friend of a very helpful neighbor, I needed a
lot of "evidence" to convict him of incompetence and send him away.
I certainly got it in a very short time. (Some would say I already
had more than enough!) Letting his little girl run around the
jobsite with acid sitting around was unbelievable to me. I thought
of what I would say in court if she got hurt. Thinking about the
liability I said "Pack it up, you're going home." I told him that he
said he knew how to do this, but he didn't even know to use a mortar
sponge - that's all there is to it. I said "it's not my fault - it's
yours. I don't want to have the whole place slathered in acid (by
this time my eyes and throat were burning!!) while you spend days
trying to fix what should have never happened." He packed up
(telling me he had another friend coming by to help but I didn't
care) and left. I suspect he knew how badly he had screwed up and
bringing the family was a sympathy ploy that backfired as badly as
his mortar work did. I think this is the worst job I have ever had a
worker do. A repainting (without prep) of the wood porch supports
was pretty damn bad, but that was easy to fix - do it again with
proper scraping and prep. But this bad brickwork would have taken
about three days to fix, at least according to how long it took to
clean 10 bricks with a brush (when the mortar wasn't thorough set).

Today a friend is coming and we're going to see if a power washer
does any better. It's really only a test for future reference
because the porch pretty much has to come down and be replaced by a
sunroom/mudroom. This fiasco merely forced my hand and made me
resolute to NEVER "hire this guy because he's been out of work, has a
kid, a pregnant wife, sob, sob, sob."

I came back inside and took my BP which really spiked from the
conflict. I guess I am getting too damn old to deal with bald-faced
liars anymore. frown

OK - onto the power washer. Since it's removed plenty of things that
I didn't want removed before, maybe this time it will clear some of
the mortar.

Yikes! Interesting story.

Yes, to say the least. I confirms what I said from the beginning, that
this work was so totally incompetent that it's hard to see how the same
guy is going to fix it and I probably would not have given him the chance.

When folks were recommending acid, I was wondering what effect that might
have on the bricks, meaning can you just clean one area with it? Or
once you start, will it brighten up the area so that you then have to
clean the whole wall or it won't match? IDK, have no experience there.
But maybe acid in the screwed spots and power washing all over would
work? OP was smart having the knucklehead start in a back area that
isn't prime visibility.

And so much for neighbor recommendations. Just shows you that sometimes
even that doesn't work. Apparently this guy can't paint either.
Somebody that incompetent, hard to imagine what he can do right.
One of the first rules with any competent repair guy is from Clint
Eastwood: "A man's gotta know his limits". I can do a lot of stuff,
but I've never done brick pointing and I would never attempt that
work for someone else. If I had a small spot to be done, I might
use it as an opportunity to learn on my own house.

clipped

OK - onto the power washer. Since it's removed plenty of things that I
didn't want removed before, maybe this time it will clear some of the
mortar.

TKS



You can write the word "idiot" on the brick wall if you set the pressure
high enough and get close enough!! I think it is time to stop ****ing
with it and get some estimates from a real mason. Jeesh!! Lots of
bricks have a surface "finish" that develops in firing and, once gone,
causes deterioration/efflorescence.

On 6/29/2015 6:13 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Norminn wrote:
clipped

All good information. I'll be heading out to HomeDepot to pick up
acid, gloves, a new wirebrush (still can't find the one I
know/knew I had) and other things to use to clear the mortar. I'll set
my less-then-stellar "mason" (maybe he is more of a
mason-ite) to work using the method you've outlined. Will also
find out exactly what mortar he used as well.

If you let him do it you are crazy.

It is at least 99 to one that it is not lime mortar.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rapid-Set...0055/202188453

a.. Sets in just 15 minutes
b.. Structural Strength in just 1 hour
c.. Easy to use, just add water
I'm hosed. frown

TKS



Muriatic is the last thing I would use without an expert mason's
advice. How large an area is involved?

The use of acid is to remove the little bit that cannot be removed
physically. It does a good job at that, gets mortar out of all the little
interstices.


http://www.leebrickandblock.com/10-c...-construction/

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 09:10:15 -0400, "Texas Kingsnake"
wrote:


He came back to "fix it" with 2 gallons of 37% HCl acid. He starts just
pouring it from the bottle right on the bricks. Holy crap! Oodles of red,
bubbling foam form up and of course he has no hose or rinse water standing
by (I did, though).

I gave fair warning earlier; if you used acid to use a milder one, not
muriatic at first. Oh, and water does no neutralize the acid.

Folks have warned you about bringing this guy back. You've also been
warned about using a power washer.

In , others typed:

The story gets much, MUCH worse. The very helpful neighbor who
recommended him pretty much begged me to give him a chance to fix
what he had done. I REALLY didn't want to, but some things you have
to do just to keep the peace and at least seem to be fair.

He came back to "fix it" with 2 gallons of 37% HCl acid. He starts
just pouring it from the bottle right on the bricks. Holy crap!

Yikes! Interesting story.

Yes, to say the least. I confirms what I said from the beginning,
that this work was so totally incompetent that it's hard to see how
the same guy is going to fix it and I probably would not have given
him the chance.

When folks were recommending acid, I was wondering what effect that
might have on the bricks, meaning can you just clean one area with
it? Or once you start, will it brighten up the area so that you then have
to
clean the whole wall or it won't match? IDK, have no experience
there. But maybe acid in the screwed spots and power washing all over
would work?

As I mentioned earlier, I am amateur when it comes to re-pointing bricks
etc., and I managed to do a really crapped job on my own red brick fronts
steps recently. But, based on what people here suggested, and some good
YouTube videos, I decided to use diluted muriatic acid to try to clean up my
mistakes. It worked well, and by diluting the muriatic acid as suggested by
others I found that the acid had no impact on the red bricks. It only
fizzed with the relatively new mortar and made it easier to get the excess
mortar screw-ups off of the brick. It didn't lighten the bricks in the
areas where I used the diluted muriatic acid, and those bricks looked the
same as the other bricks that were not hit with the acid after the job was
done. There was no red brick fizzing -- just mortar fizzing.

One of the first rules with any competent repair guy is from Clint
Eastwood: "A man's gotta know his limits". I can do a lot of stuff,
but I've never done brick pointing and I would never attempt that
work for someone else.

I agree. I have several contractor-type friends who work for themselves and
do all kinds of contractor/construction work. But, one thing that I have
found is that nearly every one of these types of people that I meet almost
always say is that they can do whatever the job is. They lack the ability
to just say "no" and say that I am not completely sure or experienced enough
in that area to do that particular type of job. Some of these people are
friends of mine, and I often try to get them to know when to say "no". I
also sometimes look up on YouTube how a job that they are doing or about to
do is supposed to be done and pass that on to them. They tend not to be
computer literate enough to research the various types of jobs on the
Internet to learn the right and wrong ways to do things.

The guy who did the brickpointing in this case is an extreme example of
someone just saying, "I can do that" when, in fact, he has absolutely no
clue on how to do it and no ability to even look up how to do it on YouTube
etc.