"...Researchers at Great Basin National Park are trying to unravel the
mystery behind a 132-year-old rifle found leaning against a juniper
tree in the remote park 300 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

No one knows how long the Winchester Model 1873 sat there, or who
might have left it. All they know so far is that the lever-action
repeating rifle was manufactured and shipped by Winchester in 1882,
one of more than 25,000 made that year of what came to be known as
“the gun that won the West.”

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/historic-rifle-found-leaning-against-tree-nevada-park

On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 12:11:09 -0800, Oren wrote:

"...Researchers at Great Basin National Park are trying to unravel the
mystery behind a 132-year-old rifle found leaning against a juniper
tree in the remote park 300 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

No one knows how long the Winchester Model 1873 sat there, or who
might have left it. All they know so far is that the lever-action
repeating rifle was manufactured and shipped by Winchester in 1882,
one of more than 25,000 made that year of what came to be known as
“the gun that won the West.”

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/historic-rifle-found-leaning-against-tree-nevada-park

Very good. Thanks.

What do you do when that tweet facebook bar is on top and it makes
scrolling so much harder? Is there a way to get rid of the bar?

I left an antique light bulb in my bedroom closet in 1962/ But my
mother sold our house in 1966 while I was away, and I forgot to tell her
to get the bulb. The chain for the light fixture in the closet was
broken, so I thought that was a good place to store it. It had a point
on the end. It's not 132 years, only 48. Do you think it's still
there?

On 01/16/2015 02:11 PM, Oren wrote:
"...Researchers at Great Basin National Park are trying to unravel the
mystery behind a 132-year-old rifle found leaning against a juniper
tree in the remote park 300 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

No one knows how long the Winchester Model 1873 sat there, or who
might have left it. All they know so far is that the lever-action
repeating rifle was manufactured and shipped by Winchester in 1882,
one of more than 25,000 made that year of what came to be known as
“the gun that won the West.”

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/historic-rifle-found-leaning-against-tree-nevada-park




How fast do Juniper trees grow?

If a rifle was left against a tree 100 years ago, the tree would have
long either engulfed the rifle or pushed it aside. Although from the
photo it looks to be partially engulfed, it seems unlikely to me it's
been there more than a few decades.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 15:38:32 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 01/16/2015 02:11 PM, Oren wrote:
"...Researchers at Great Basin National Park are trying to unravel the
mystery behind a 132-year-old rifle found leaning against a juniper
tree in the remote park 300 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

No one knows how long the Winchester Model 1873 sat there, or who
might have left it. All they know so far is that the lever-action
repeating rifle was manufactured and shipped by Winchester in 1882,
one of more than 25,000 made that year of what came to be known as
“the gun that won the West.”

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/historic-rifle-found-leaning-against-tree-nevada-park




How fast do Juniper trees grow?


Not an expert

If a rifle was left against a tree 100 years ago, the tree would have
long either engulfed the rifle or pushed it aside. Although from the
photo it looks to be partially engulfed, it seems unlikely to me it's
been there more than a few decades.

Only a fool would leave a _real_ Winchester Model 1873 by a tree a
few short decades ago.

On 2015-01-16, philo* wrote:

How fast do Juniper trees grow?

If a rifle was left against a tree 100 years ago, the tree would have
long either engulfed the rifle or pushed it aside. Although from the
photo it looks to be partially engulfed, it seems unlikely to me it's
been there more than a few decades.

Makes one wonder. There are more than one photo. Looks like the
stock was trying to revegetate.

nb

On 01/16/2015 3:38 PM, philo wrote:
....


How fast do Juniper trees grow?

If a rifle was left against a tree 100 years ago, the tree would have
long either engulfed the rifle or pushed it aside. Although from the
photo it looks to be partially engulfed, it seems unlikely to me it's
been there more than a few decades.

Not necessarily in the dry country--stuff grows very slowly in harsh
environments.

I'd certainly not jump to any conclusion it couldn't have been there for
quite a long time, indeed, altho all the article notes is the date of
manufacture, _not_ when it was left.

--

On 01/16/2015 04:02 PM, Oren wrote:
OnX



How fast do Juniper trees grow?


Not an expert

If a rifle was left against a tree 100 years ago, the tree would have
long either engulfed the rifle or pushed it aside. Although from the
photo it looks to be partially engulfed, it seems unlikely to me it's
been there more than a few decades.

Only a fool would leave a _real_ Winchester Model 1873 by a tree a
few short decades ago.




After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

So...it very well could have been there for over 100 years

On 1/16/2015 6:02 PM, dpb wrote:
On 01/16/2015 3:38 PM, philo wrote:
...


How fast do Juniper trees grow?

If a rifle was left against a tree 100 years ago, the tree would have
long either engulfed the rifle or pushed it aside. Although from the
photo it looks to be partially engulfed, it seems unlikely to me it's
been there more than a few decades.

Not necessarily in the dry country--stuff grows very slowly in harsh
environments.

I'd certainly not jump to any conclusion it couldn't have been there for
quite a long time, indeed, altho all the article notes is the date of
manufacture, _not_ when it was left.

--

Good point. Even in a nearly dry environment you would not think it
would hold up that well.

Frank wrote:

Good point. Even in a nearly dry environment you would not think it
would hold up that well.

The closeup of the Winchester logo shows some significant corrosion. There
are a lot of old mining sites where they left the equipment and tools back
in the late 1800's and the stuff doesn't look any worse.

On 01/16/2015 6:24 PM, philo wrote:
....

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

Trees don't grow that way...

--

On 2015-01-17, rbowman wrote:

The closeup of the Winchester logo shows some significant corrosion. There
are a lot of old mining sites where they left the equipment and tools back
in the late 1800's and the stuff doesn't look any worse.

The gun's owner may have been killed and the killer didn't know the
victim left a gun, nearby.

Hey, it's the Code of the West.

nb

On 1/17/2015 9:21 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2015-01-17, rbowman wrote:

The closeup of the Winchester logo shows some significant corrosion. There
are a lot of old mining sites where they left the equipment and tools back
in the late 1800's and the stuff doesn't look any worse.

The gun's owner may have been killed and the killer didn't know the
victim left a gun, nearby.

Hey, it's the Code of the West.

Do a Google search for the article in the LA Times. Better pictures and
you'll believe that gun has been there a loooooooooooong time. Looks
like they had to wrap the stock with plastic to keep it from falling
apart after sucking up what little water it may have been exposed to
over the years.

On 01/16/2015 6:56 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/16/2015 6:02 PM, dpb wrote:
....

Not necessarily in the dry country--stuff grows very slowly in harsh
environments.

I'd certainly not jump to any conclusion it couldn't have been there for
quite a long time, indeed, altho all the article notes is the date of
manufacture, _not_ when it was left.

Good point. Even in a nearly dry environment you would not think it
would hold up that well.

Living in an area dry but not so dry as most of NV I have no trouble at
all believing it.

As for slow-growing, there was a wisteria planted at the base of the old
wind-charger tower by grandparents in the early '20s when it was
erected. After 40 year or so, it had reached about 20-ft in height.
That was my knowledge of wisteria. In TN, we had a deck off the rear of
the new house built on a pretty good slope so the rear of it was almost
15-ft from the ground to the railing and left all that area exposed
underneath. I built in a trellis for shade leaving a couple of
walk-thrus between the deck posts and planted a wisteria at each corner
and the middle thinking in 10 yr or so it would about cover up the area.
Needless to say, in _that_ environment, it was trying to cover the
house in less than five and had to remove it entirely.

Just sayin'...if you haven't experienced the difference that the
tougher environment can make and expect growth as it occurs back where
it rains and is much more temperate, you really can't grasp how tough it
is and how slow/stunted things can be/are in comparison...

--

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 09:38:54 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

Do a Google search for the article in the LA Times. Better pictures and
you'll believe that gun has been there a loooooooooooong time. Looks
like they had to wrap the stock with plastic to keep it from falling
apart after sucking up what little water it may have been exposed to
over the years.

Here is some close-up video taken at the park visitor center.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkboM5FBAd0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkboM5FBAd0

dpb wrote:

Just sayin'...if you haven't experienced the difference that the
tougher environment can make and expect growth as it occurs back where
it rains and is much more temperate, you really can't grasp how tough it
is and how slow/stunted things can be/are in comparison...

I live in a semi-arid climate with approximately the same annual
precipitation as the lower parts of the Great Basin National Park. Some of
the areas I hike were clear cuts that were replanted over 25 years ago. The
ponderosa pines are about 6' high. Between poor soil and little water they
will be merchantable in a hundred years or so.

And that's in places with enough elevation and precipitation to even support
trees. The south facing slopes and valleys are short grass prairies left to
their own devices.

If you want a pine plantation, head for Georgia or the Pacific North Wet.

On 1/16/2015 11:23 PM, rbowman wrote:
Frank wrote:

Good point. Even in a nearly dry environment you would not think it
would hold up that well.

The closeup of the Winchester logo shows some significant corrosion. There
are a lot of old mining sites where they left the equipment and tools back
in the late 1800's and the stuff doesn't look any worse.


Some one, Oren?, posted a close-up video and maybe it has sat out there
for over 100 years. It looked a lot more aged than in the photo.

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 11:47:45 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

dpb wrote:

Just sayin'...if you haven't experienced the difference that the
tougher environment can make and expect growth as it occurs back where
it rains and is much more temperate, you really can't grasp how tough it
is and how slow/stunted things can be/are in comparison...


_A Tree's Secret to Living Long_

"...the Methuselah Tree, a bristlecone pine more than 46 centuries
old. But it's truly baffling to learn under what conditions it has
accomplished this extraordinary feat."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/methuselah/long.html

I live in a semi-arid climate with approximately the same annual
precipitation as the lower parts of the Great Basin National Park. Some of
the areas I hike were clear cuts that were replanted over 25 years ago. The
ponderosa pines are about 6' high. Between poor soil and little water they
will be merchantable in a hundred years or so.


....for the children

And that's in places with enough elevation and precipitation to even support
trees. The south facing slopes and valleys are short grass prairies left to
their own devices.

If you want a pine plantation, head for Georgia or the Pacific North Wet.

Much of the pine in Georgia goes towards pulp wood. Turnover is faster

On 01/17/2015 12:47 PM, rbowman wrote:
dpb wrote:

Just sayin'...if you haven't experienced the difference that the
tougher environment can make and expect growth as it occurs back where
it rains and is much more temperate, you really can't grasp how tough it
is and how slow/stunted things can be/are in comparison...

I live in a semi-arid climate with approximately the same annual
precipitation as the lower parts of the Great Basin National Park. Some of
the areas I hike were clear cuts that were replanted over 25 years ago. The
ponderosa pines are about 6' high. Between poor soil and little water they
will be merchantable in a hundred years or so.

And that's in places with enough elevation and precipitation to even support
trees. The south facing slopes and valleys are short grass prairies left to
their own devices.

Ayup, sounds about right or really doin' pretty good...

If you want a pine plantation, head for Georgia or the Pacific North Wet.

Altho in the PNW, less pine, more fir...

--

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 14:09:27 -0500, Frank
wrote:

Some one, Oren?, posted a close-up video and maybe it has sat out there
for over 100 years. It looked a lot more aged than in the photo.

Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkboM5FBAd0

On 01/17/2015 08:22 AM, dpb wrote:
On 01/16/2015 6:24 PM, philo wrote:
...

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

Trees don't grow that way...

--





What are you talking about ?

My speculation is that there was NO tree at the time the rifle was
dropped but later the tree 'came up' from the ground.


How the hell else does a tree grow....from the sky down???

philo wrote:
On 01/17/2015 08:22 AM, dpb wrote:
On 01/16/2015 6:24 PM, philo wrote:
...

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left
on the ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle
came up with it.

Trees don't grow that way...

--





What are you talking about ?

My speculation is that there was NO tree at the time the rifle was
dropped but later the tree 'came up' from the ground.


How the hell else does a tree grow....from the sky down???

The new sapling would bend away from that load . What (apparently) most of
y'all don't understand is just how slowly those Juniper trees grow in that
climate . That tree is likely over 250 years old - yes , they grow that
slowly out there .
I grew up on the high mountain desert of northern Utahaha , and it would
amaze you just how many growth rings you'd find on even a relatively small
tree .
--
Snag

On 01/17/2015 2:00 PM, philo wrote:
On 01/17/2015 08:22 AM, dpb wrote:
On 01/16/2015 6:24 PM, philo wrote:
...

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

Trees don't grow that way...
....

What are you talking about ?

My speculation is that there was NO tree at the time the rifle was
dropped but later the tree 'came up' from the ground.


How the hell else does a tree grow....from the sky down???

Trees grow taller (and branches longer) because of the division of cells
at the tips of branches. By contrast, diameter increases as a result of
cell division in the cambrium layer just under the innermost layer of
bark. (You can look it up if you think otherwise...)

Hence, a point along the trunk remains stationary wrt to the ground; the
top just continues upwards, not the whole thing pushed up from the
ground. Besides, as Terry points out, in that case the seedling
would've just gone around the barrel when it came out of the ground;
it'd never picked it up.


--

On 01/17/2015 03:08 PM, dpb wrote:
On 01/17/2015 2:00 PM, philo wrote:
On 01/17/2015 08:22 AM, dpb wrote:
On 01/16/2015 6:24 PM, philo wrote:
...

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on
the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

Trees don't grow that way...
...

What are you talking about ?

My speculation is that there was NO tree at the time the rifle was
dropped but later the tree 'came up' from the ground.


How the hell else does a tree grow....from the sky down???

Trees grow taller (and branches longer) because of the division of cells
at the tips of branches. By contrast, diameter increases as a result of
cell division in the cambrium layer just under the innermost layer of
bark. (You can look it up if you think otherwise...)

Hence, a point along the trunk remains stationary wrt to the ground; the
top just continues upwards, not the whole thing pushed up from the
ground. Besides, as Terry points out, in that case the seedling
would've just gone around the barrel when it came out of the ground;
it'd never picked it up.




OK


that makes sense to me

On 01/17/2015 02:43 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:



What are you talking about ?

My speculation is that there was NO tree at the time the rifle was
dropped but later the tree 'came up' from the ground.


How the hell else does a tree grow....from the sky down???

The new sapling would bend away from that load . What (apparently) most of
y'all don't understand is just how slowly those Juniper trees grow in that
climate . That tree is likely over 250 years old - yes , they grow that
slowly out there .
I grew up on the high mountain desert of northern Utahaha , and it would
amaze you just how many growth rings you'd find on even a relatively small
tree .




Yep thanks for the good explanation.


My guess is that if the rifle was left there, it's owner must have met
his demise...not likely one would forget it.

On 01/17/2015 11:13 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 14:09:27 -0500, Frank
wrote:

Some one, Oren?, posted a close-up video and maybe it has sat out there
for over 100 years. It looked a lot more aged than in the photo.

Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkboM5FBAd0


It was "empty" too. Interesting.

On 01/17/2015 3:57 PM, philo wrote:
On 01/17/2015 03:08 PM, dpb wrote:
On 01/17/2015 2:00 PM, philo wrote:
....

How the hell else does a tree grow....from the sky down???

Trees grow taller (and branches longer) because of the division of cells
at the tips of branches. By contrast, diameter increases as a result of
cell division in the cambrium layer just under the innermost layer of
bark. (You can look it up if you think otherwise...)

Hence, a point along the trunk remains stationary wrt to the ground; ...

....

OK


that makes sense to me

Basic botany...

--

On 1/17/2015 2:13 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 14:09:27 -0500, Frank
wrote:

Some one, Oren?, posted a close-up video and maybe it has sat out there
for over 100 years. It looked a lot more aged than in the photo.

Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkboM5FBAd0


Saw it down in the thread after posting.
Here in the east, the gun would have just about completely disintegrated
or grown into the vegetation. Things remain a lot longer in dry western
areas.

On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 6:22:41 AM UTC-8, dpb wrote:
On 01/16/2015 6:24 PM, philo wrote:
...

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

Trees don't grow that way...

--

Yep. It is amazing how many people think trees grow up from the bottom in spite of evidence in plain sight that they they don't. A scar, a nail, a fence, etc. put on a tree when it is young will still be at the same height a hundred years later.

Harry K

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 20:47:43 -0800, Todd wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkboM5FBAd0


It was "empty" too. Interesting.

Looks like the breech was open? No word yet if they used metal
detectors, looking for spent .44-40 casings in the immediate area.

..44-40 :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44-40_Winchester

philo wrote:

On 01/17/2015 08:22 AM, dpb wrote:
On 01/16/2015 6:24 PM, philo wrote:
...

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

Trees don't grow that way...

What are you talking about ?

My speculation is that there was NO tree at the time the rifle was
dropped but later the tree 'came up' from the ground.


How the hell else does a tree grow....from the sky down???

Consider this. In your distant youth, you carved your sweetheart's name in a
heart of the side of some tree. Forty years later, is the heart going to be
20' up?

On 01/18/2015 12:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
philo wrote:

On 01/17/2015 08:22 AM, dpb wrote:
On 01/16/2015 6:24 PM, philo wrote:
...

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

Trees don't grow that way...

What are you talking about ?

My speculation is that there was NO tree at the time the rifle was
dropped but later the tree 'came up' from the ground.


How the hell else does a tree grow....from the sky down???

Consider this. In your distant youth, you carved your sweetheart's name in a
heart of the side of some tree. Forty years later, is the heart going to be
20' up?




Yep

On 01/18/2015 10:46 AM, Harry K wrote:
On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 6:22:41 AM UTC-8, dpb wrote:
On 01/16/2015 6:24 PM, philo wrote:
...

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

Trees don't grow that way...

--

Yep. It is amazing how many people think trees grow up from the bottom in spite of evidence in plain sight that they they don't. A scar, a nail, a fence, etc. put on a tree when it is young will still be at the same height a hundred years later.

Harry K



UR right

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 13:13:34 -0600, philo wrote:

On 01/18/2015 12:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
philo wrote:

On 01/17/2015 08:22 AM, dpb wrote:
On 01/16/2015 6:24 PM, philo wrote:
...

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

Trees don't grow that way...

What are you talking about ?

My speculation is that there was NO tree at the time the rifle was
dropped but later the tree 'came up' from the ground.


How the hell else does a tree grow....from the sky down???

Consider this. In your distant youth, you carved your sweetheart's name in a
heart of the side of some tree. Forty years later, is the heart going to be
20' up?

Yep

Nope

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 13:13:34 -0600, philo wrote:

Consider this. In your distant youth, you carved your sweetheart's name in a
heart of the side of some tree. Forty years later, is the heart going to be
20' up?

Yep

Wrong answer.
--
"Dumb is local...As soon as you go 15 miles away from your dumbness, you see how dumb you are." -- Sherrod Small

On 01/18/2015 04:43 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 13:13:34 -0600, philo wrote:

Consider this. In your distant youth, you carved your sweetheart's name in a
heart of the side of some tree. Forty years later, is the heart going to be
20' up?

Yep

Wrong answer.




aargh!!!!

I mean to say "no"


sheesh I know better than that

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on
the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

Waiting for someone to say that guns don't
kill people, trees pick up guns.


-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 18:18:06 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

After I posted, I realized that the rifle may have just been left on
the
ground and covered with brush...
then many years later the tree grew and the barrel of the rifle came up
with it.

Waiting for someone to say that guns don't
kill people, trees pick up guns.

"guns don't kill people"!

Feel better now?

I said it.

On 01/18/2015 05:32 PM, Oren wrote:



snip

"guns don't kill people"!

Feel better now?

I said it.




Guns don't kill people unless you use the gun to bash someone's head it...

it's the bullets

In article ,
Harry K wrote:
--

Yep. It is amazing how many people think trees grow up from the
bottom in spite of evidence in plain sight that they they don't. A
scar, a nail, a fence, etc. put on a tree when it is young will still
be at the same height a hundred years later.

Oh, those Tree Growth Deniers...so frustrating.

m