I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)

On 11/19/2014 12:30 AM, yyy378 wrote:
I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)



It's not right

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, philo* wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:30 AM, yyy378 wrote:
I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)



It's not right

It's not right that he asks a question and only says that the location
is not in the USA. Some kind of secret or a troll?

On 11/19/2014 05:20 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:30 AM, yyy378 wrote:
I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)



It's not right

It's not right that he asks a question and only says that the location
is not in the USA. Some kind of secret or a troll?





Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

With three circuits, at least two of them would share the same "hot"
wire with the neutral having to bear (up to) twice the load that it's
rated for. This assumes all wires are of the same gauge and rated for
the same current as the breaker.

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:08:45 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 11/19/2014 05:20 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:30 AM, yyy378 wrote:
I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)



It's not right

It's not right that he asks a question and only says that the location
is not in the USA. Some kind of secret or a troll?





Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

With three circuits, at least two of them would share the same "hot"
wire with the neutral having to bear (up to) twice the load that it's
rated for. This assumes all wires are of the same gauge and rated for
the same current as the breaker.

It could be OK. It might be a 120V circuit and a 240V circuit. Not
enough info to tell. One breaker would have to be a double pole type.

On 11/19/2014 08:29 AM, Seymore4Head wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:08:45 -0600, philo wrote:




Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

With three circuits, at least two of them would share the same "hot"
wire with the neutral having to bear (up to) twice the load that it's
rated for. This assumes all wires are of the same gauge and rated for
the same current as the breaker.

It could be OK. It might be a 120V circuit and a 240V circuit. Not
enough info to tell. One breaker would have to be a double pole type.




Except he said "three" circuits and a total of five wires. 3 hot, 1
neutral, I ground


Putting code aside, from a purely safety stand point
it would be safe only if the wires were double the gauge required...
and that /not/ all three shared the same "hot" side.
I rather doubt that's the case.

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:34:25 AM UTC-5, philo* wrote:
On 11/19/2014 08:29 AM, Seymore4Head wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:08:45 -0600, philo wrote:




Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

With three circuits, at least two of them would share the same "hot"
wire with the neutral having to bear (up to) twice the load that it's
rated for. This assumes all wires are of the same gauge and rated for
the same current as the breaker.

It could be OK. It might be a 120V circuit and a 240V circuit. Not
enough info to tell. One breaker would have to be a double pole type.




Except he said "three" circuits and a total of five wires. 3 hot, 1
neutral, I ground


Putting code aside, from a purely safety stand point
it would be safe only if the wires were double the gauge required...
and that /not/ all three shared the same "hot" side.
I rather doubt that's the case.

Unless it is in fact three phase e.g. 120/208 or 277/480 and all hots are on different phases.

nate

On 11/19/2014 08:49 AM, N8N wrote:

Putting code aside, from a purely safety stand point
it would be safe only if the wires were double the gauge required...
and that /not/ all three shared the same "hot" side.
I rather doubt that's the case.

Unless it is in fact three phase e.g. 120/208 or 277/480 and all hots are on different phases.

nate




Yes, but very unlikely to see 3 phase in a residence.


Only once have I seen it...and it was simply because the people had
purchased a small warehouse with an elevator and converted the building
to a residence.

The three phase circuitry was completely separate from all other wiring
and used exclusively for the elevator.

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:08:51 AM UTC-5, philo* wrote:
On 11/19/2014 05:20 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:30 AM, yyy378 wrote:
I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)



It's not right

It's not right that he asks a question and only says that the location
is not in the USA. Some kind of secret or a troll?





Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

With three circuits, at least two of them would share the same "hot"
wire with the neutral having to bear (up to) twice the load that it's
rated for.

Not if they are on different phases, eg an Edison circuit. Which
again is why you need to know the rest of the story.



This assumes all wires are of the same gauge and rated for
the same current as the breaker.

On 11/19/2014 09:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:


Not if they are on different phases, eg an Edison circuit. Which
again is why you need to know the rest of the story.



Has anyone ever seen a residence with three phase?


What's an Edison circuit? He did not believe in AC

On 11/19/2014 12:47 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:08:45 -0600, philo wrote:

On 11/19/2014 05:20 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:30 AM, yyy378 wrote:
I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)



It's not right

It's not right that he asks a question and only says that the location
is not in the USA. Some kind of secret or a troll?





Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

With three circuits, at least two of them would share the same "hot"
wire with the neutral having to bear (up to) twice the load that it's
rated for. This assumes all wires are of the same gauge and rated for
the same current as the breaker.


There are lots of countries that have 3 phase in a dwelling





From "Worldstandards"

"three-phase electricity is rarely used for domestic purposes"


Of course that does not mean that it is /never/ user but I think the OP
has been scared off now

philo* wrote in :

On 11/19/2014 05:20 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:30 AM, yyy378 wrote:
I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)



It's not right

It's not right that he asks a question and only says that the location
is not in the USA. Some kind of secret or a troll?

Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

Wrong. This is perfectly fine if it's a 3-phase circuit.

philo* wrote in :


Yes, but very unlikely to see 3 phase in a residence.

What part of "this is not in the U.S." did you find confusing?
And who said it's in a residence? Certainly not the OP.

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:00:29 +0630, yyy378
wrote:

I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

AIUI, grounds are grounds are grounds.

But neutral wires are conductors of electricity, the same amount that
the hot wires carry.

Did he only use ONE neutral wire for all the outlets powered by three
different breakers? So for example, the breakers will provide 15
amps each, 45 amps total, and the only neutral wire has to return up to
45 amps!!!! You can't carry 45 amps on 14 gauge or even 12 gauge wire,
so no, it's not right.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)

What about the FEC, the Foreign Electrical Code?

AFAIK, the NEC is based on reality, and doesn't disapprove of things
that aren't unsafe, at least somewhat**. Maybe that's not always true,
but anything it says about this sort of thing probably does relate to
safety.

**Small risks that people would take, or that they didnt' even know
about , 50 years ago aren't permitted anymore, but why should
non-Americans bear these risks when they are known now?

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:26:15 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

philo* wrote in :

On 11/19/2014 05:20 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:30 AM, yyy378 wrote:
I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)



It's not right

It's not right that he asks a question and only says that the location
is not in the USA. Some kind of secret or a troll?

Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

Wrong. This is perfectly fine if it's a 3-phase circuit.

I didn't think of that. But if it were a 3-phase circuit, could one
wire accurately be called "neutral"?

micky presented the following explanation :
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:00:29 +0630, yyy378
wrote:

I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

AIUI, grounds are grounds are grounds.

But neutral wires are conductors of electricity, the same amount that
the hot wires carry.

Did he only use ONE neutral wire for all the outlets powered by three
different breakers? So for example, the breakers will provide 15
amps each, 45 amps total, and the only neutral wire has to return up to
45 amps!!!! You can't carry 45 amps on 14 gauge or even 12 gauge wire,
so no, it's not right.

Pity some of the contributors here know nothing about 3 phase
electricy.

The OP said 5 wires which is exactly the way Electricity is distributed
in Europe Australia and many other countries.
15 amps in each phase seperated by 120 degrees results in NO NIL
NOTHING in the neautral wire.

Admitadly not all domestics get 3 phase, I have 3 phase because I hava
a split system Air con and so do many of my neighbours.
My previous house did not have A/C until very late and then the supply
was changed to 3 phase.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)

What about the FEC, the Foreign Electrical Code?

AFAIK, the NEC is based on reality, and doesn't disapprove of things
that aren't unsafe, at least somewhat**. Maybe that's not always true,
but anything it says about this sort of thing probably does relate to
safety.

**Small risks that people would take, or that they didnt' even know
about , 50 years ago aren't permitted anymore, but why should
non-Americans bear these risks when they are known now?

The NEC is based on the archaeic Edison system and so is not the Bible
for more advanced systems. :-Z

--
John G Sydney.

On 11/19/2014 05:18 PM, John G wrote:


Pity some of the contributors here know nothing about 3 phase electricy.
X


snip


I worked with it industrially for 38 years few of us here (myself
included) made the assumption that the residence was three
phase...though as pointed out...it could be.

The OP did not give enough info for anyone here to know.


Now, if it is a three phase "wye" feed and there are a total of three ,
single phase outlets the neutral current would not be zero unless the
loads at all three outlets were the same...however...if it is three
phase, then the electrician probably did wire it correctly.

micky wrote in
:

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:26:15 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

philo* wrote in :

On 11/19/2014 05:20 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:30 AM, yyy378 wrote:
I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)



It's not right

It's not right that he asks a question and only says that the location
is not in the USA. Some kind of secret or a troll?

Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

Wrong. This is perfectly fine if it's a 3-phase circuit.

I didn't think of that. But if it were a 3-phase circuit, could one
wire accurately be called "neutral"?

Yes, if it's 3-phase wye, which can have a total of five wires, just as the OP described:
ground, neutral, and one for each of the three phases. Phase-to-phase voltage is 208V, and
phase-to-neutral is 120V, in a typical North American installation.

micky wrote in
:

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:00:29 +0630, yyy378
wrote:

I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

AIUI, grounds are grounds are grounds.

But neutral wires are conductors of electricity, the same amount that
the hot wires carry.

Did he only use ONE neutral wire for all the outlets powered by three
different breakers? So for example, the breakers will provide 15
amps each, 45 amps total, and the only neutral wire has to return up to
45 amps!!!! You can't carry 45 amps on 14 gauge or even 12 gauge wire,
so no, it's not right.

Maybe you should stick to subjects you know more about. If this is 3-phase wye, there's
absolutely nothing wrong.

=?ISO-8859-15?Q?philo=A0?= wrote in news:m4jaua$bmu$1@dont-
email.me:

On 11/19/2014 05:18 PM, John G wrote:


Pity some of the contributors here know nothing about 3 phase electricy.
X


snip


I worked with it industrially for 38 years few of us here (myself
included) made the assumption that the residence was three
phase...though as pointed out...it could be.

Note that you're also making the assumption that it's even a residence. The OP never
stated that.

It happens that philo* formulated :
On 11/19/2014 05:18 PM, John G wrote:


Pity some of the contributors here know nothing about 3 phase electricy.
X


snip


I worked with it industrially for 38 years few of us here (myself included)
made the assumption that the residence was three phase...though as pointed
out...it could be.

The OP did not give enough info for anyone here to know.


Now, if it is a three phase "wye" feed and there are a total of three ,
single phase outlets the neutral current would not be zero unless the loads
at all three outlets were the same...however...if it is three phase, then the
electrician probably did wire it correctly.
\
You are correct, the neutral current will only be zero when all three
phase loads are equall but the neutral current will never be more than
the total on ONE phase when the other 2 phases have no current.
Hence the wires would be quite acceptable if all were the same size.

It would be nice if the facts were quoted instead of blind assertions
from limted sources such as
Worldstandards"
"three-phase electricity is rarely used for domestic purposes"

In fact 3 phase is very common outside the USA

--
John G Sydney.

"philo " wrote in message
...
On 11/19/2014 05:18 PM, John G wrote:


Pity some of the contributors here know nothing about 3 phase electricy.
X


snip


I worked with it industrially for 38 years few of us here (myself
included) made the assumption that the residence was three phase...though
as pointed out...it could be.

The OP did not give enough info for anyone here to know.



I also worked around lots of 3 phase of several differant voltages in
industry. I did not make any asumptions when the OP said not in the US. I
don't know very much about other countries. We did get in some odd ball
(for the US ) 380 volt 3 phase equipment on a project about 25 years ago.
No one told us and we were trying to adjust some 3 phase 300 amp heaters to
480 volts out. Most we cold get was 380 volts. Decided to check the
incomming power and the transfrormers were set for 380 that the equipment
needed.

Damn junk from other countries are going to get people over here killed.
Seems that in the large 3 phase cabinets the disconnect is colored backwards
from the old US. If the pointer is on Green, that means the power is off
and it is safe to go in. If Red it means the power is on and it is not
safe. We were used to seeing it the opposit, Red is off and green is when
the power is on.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 11/19/2014 06:56 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"philo " wrote in message
...
On 11/19/2014 05:18 PM, John G wrote:


Pity some of the contributors here know nothing about 3 phase electricy.
X


snip


Damn junk from other countries are going to get people over here killed.
Seems that in the large 3 phase cabinets the disconnect is colored backwards
from the old US. If the pointer is on Green, that means the power is off
and it is safe to go in. If Red it means the power is on and it is not
safe. We were used to seeing it the opposit, Red is off and green is when
the power is on.



Wow

On 11/19/2014 06:49 PM, John G wrote:
It happens that philo formulated :
On 11/19/2014 05:18 PM, John G wrote:


Pity some of the contributors here know nothing about 3 phase electricy.
X


snip


I worked with it industrially for 38 years few of us here (myself
included) made the assumption that the residence was three
phase...though as pointed out...it could be.

The OP did not give enough info for anyone here to know.


Now, if it is a three phase "wye" feed and there are a total of three
, single phase outlets the neutral current would not be zero unless
the loads at all three outlets were the same...however...if it is
three phase, then the electrician probably did wire it correctly.
\
You are correct, the neutral current will only be zero when all three
phase loads are equall but the neutral current will never be more than
the total on ONE phase when the other 2 phases have no current.
Hence the wires would be quite acceptable if all were the same size.

It would be nice if the facts were quoted instead of blind assertions
from limted sources such as
Worldstandards"
"three-phase electricity is rarely used for domestic purposes"

In fact 3 phase is very common outside the USA




Three phase is very common in the US, just not in residential

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:58:45 PM UTC-5, philo* wrote:
On 11/19/2014 09:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:


Not if they are on different phases, eg an Edison circuit. Which
again is why you need to know the rest of the story.



Has anyone ever seen a residence with three phase?


What's an Edison circuit? He did not believe in AC

The OP didn't say it's a residence or give any indication at all as to where
it's located. He did say it's not in the USA and IDK about you, but
while I've traveled around the world quite a bit, I can't say that I've
analyzed how the systems work even in the countries that I have visited,
much less all the other countries.

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 5:54:03 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:00:29 +0630, yyy378
wrote:

I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

AIUI, grounds are grounds are grounds.

But neutral wires are conductors of electricity, the same amount that
the hot wires carry.

Did he only use ONE neutral wire for all the outlets powered by three
different breakers? So for example, the breakers will provide 15
amps each, 45 amps total, and the only neutral wire has to return up to
45 amps!!!! You can't carry 45 amps on 14 gauge or even 12 gauge wire,
so no, it's not right.



When there is more than one hot and they are not the same phase,
a neutral doesn't have to carry the same current that the hots carry.
That's how an Edison circuit, otherwise known as a shared neutral works.
You see that used here, even in residential applications.




How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)

What about the FEC, the Foreign Electrical Code?

AFAIK, the NEC is based on reality, and doesn't disapprove of things
that aren't unsafe, at least somewhat**. Maybe that's not always true,
but anything it says about this sort of thing probably does relate to
safety.

**Small risks that people would take, or that they didnt' even know
about , 50 years ago aren't permitted anymore, but why should
non-Americans bear these risks when they are known now?

On 11/20/2014 05:56 AM, trader_4 wrote:


The OP didn't say it's a residence or give any indication at all as to where
it's located. He did say it's not in the USA and IDK about you, but
while I've traveled around the world quite a bit, I can't say that I've
analyzed how the systems work even in the countries that I have visited,
much less all the other countries.




I assumed he was talking about his own house, but who knows.


Also: Even though at least one person here mentioned that three phase
residential power is common in Europe it is still a safe assumption to
say single phase is the most widely used /residential/ distribution
system world-wide.

That said: It is probable that if someone from outside the US asked a
question here...they very well may in Europe so my initial assumption
could very well have been wrong.



My only experience with European power distribution was when I was
stationed in Germany in the early 70's. Some of my friends had
turn-tables that were designed for 60hz and Germany was 50hz.

Though they could use a step down transformer to give them 115v, the
turn-table was too slow...so I had them wrap a few turns of electrical
tape around the drive wheel.

On 11/19/2014 11:31 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:49:00 +1100, John G wrote:

You are correct, the neutral current will only be zero when all three
phase loads are equall but the neutral current will never be more than
the total on ONE phase when the other 2 phases have no current.
Hence the wires would be quite acceptable if all were the same size.

Let; not start talking about triplin harmonics. Heads would explode.




It's not that complicated. In a three phase "wye" the center tap (even
with unbalanced loads) would not draw any more current than that of the
most used leg.

philo wrote:

On 11/19/2014 12:47 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:08:45 -0600, philo wrote:

On 11/19/2014 05:20 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:30 AM, yyy378 wrote:
I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)



It's not right

It's not right that he asks a question and only says that the location
is not in the USA. Some kind of secret or a troll?





Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

With three circuits, at least two of them would share the same "hot"
wire with the neutral having to bear (up to) twice the load that it's
rated for. This assumes all wires are of the same gauge and rated for
the same current as the breaker.


There are lots of countries that have 3 phase in a dwelling


From "Worldstandards"

"three-phase electricity is rarely used for domestic purposes"

Of course that does not mean that it is /never/ user but I think the OP
has been scared off now

I seem to recall Switzerland was one of the countries that used
residential three phase power.

On 11/20/2014 09:54 AM, Pete C. wrote:



From "Worldstandards"

"three-phase electricity is rarely used for domestic purposes"

Of course that does not mean that it is /never/ user but I think the OP
has been scared off now

I seem to recall Switzerland was one of the countries that used
residential three phase power.




From what I've found on-line I guess three phase is fairly common for
residential in Northern and Central Europe.

Due to higher energy costs, Europe has been more energy conscious that
the US.


The company I worked for (Enersys) manufactured industrial batteries and
chargers.
Some years back they bought out a French manufacturer of high-frequency
conversion battery chargers which were more efficient that those being
produced by the old Hertner plant in Cleveland. The Cleveland plant now
builds the chargers used in the US...so it has all worked out well.

Three phase 460v would be rectified then converted to hi-frequency AC
before it was sent to the transformer to reduce the voltage and increase
the current.

In a standard battery charger the main transformer could be as much as
350#. The high-frequency transformers can be held in your hand!


The old chargers (both SCR or Ferroresonant) are still being made as
their efficiency can be as high as 80%. The hi-freq chargers can get
closer to 95% efficiency and had been made in Europe for 20 years before
they started getting popular here.

On 11/20/2014 11:25 AM, wrote:
On



It's not that complicated. In a three phase "wye" the center tap (even
with unbalanced loads) would not draw any more current than that of the
most used leg.

That is where harmonics come in. The triplin harmonic would lag the
voltage to the point where it would show up in the current of an
adjacent leg
For this reason, they sell "super neutral" cable with the neutral 2
wire sizes bigger than the ungrounded conductors. This happens where
you have a large component of electronic ballasts and switching power
supplies.
http://www.afcweb.com/mc-metal-clad-...sized-neutral/




yes, that's true,

I guess I was thinking of just a resistive load

On 19/11/2014 13:50, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:00:29 +0630, yyy378
wrote:

I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)

Sounds like 3 phase wye. You see that here in the US but only in
commercial. If they have 3 phase in residential there, that is what
you are looking at.


Thank you. That must be it.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 03:59:00 +0630, yyy378
wrote:



On 19/11/2014 13:50, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:00:29 +0630, yyy378
wrote:

I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)

Sounds like 3 phase wye. You see that here in the US but only in
commercial. If they have 3 phase in residential there, that is what
you are looking at.


Thank you. That must be it.

The panel should be mark with it's type.
You could post a picture of the nametag if you are unsure.

On 23/11/2014 05:10, Seymore4Head wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 03:59:00 +0630, yyy378
wrote:



On 19/11/2014 13:50, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:00:29 +0630, yyy378
wrote:

I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)

Sounds like 3 phase wye. You see that here in the US but only in
commercial. If they have 3 phase in residential there, that is what
you are looking at.


Thank you. That must be it.

The panel should be mark with it's type.
You could post a picture of the nametag if you are unsure.

I have seen same or similar panels used for single and three phases.

The panel has no writing of any sort. The electricians here don't even
bother to label circuits for light, A/C, water heater, etc.

The panel and breaker are quite different from those used in the US. In
the US, breakers get their power from the two bars in the middle of the
panel. Here, you have to wire one breaker to the next. So, if the wire
connecting breaker #5 and 6 is loose, breakers #6 and down will have no
power.

On 19/11/2014 17:50, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:06:09 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:30 AM, yyy378 wrote:
I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)



It's not right

It's not right that he asks a question and only says that the location
is not in the USA. Some kind of secret or a troll?

Oh, I'm in Myanmar. Here, you have single and three phases co-exist in
residential dwellings, sometimes in the same building. And every house
has a generator is the owner can afford one. Blackout happens several
times a day. Every major piece of appliance is protected with a
safeguard which cuts off the current if voltage is too high or too low,
most of the time too low. The voltage is usually around 180 volt.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 07:35:09 +0630, yyy378
wrote:



On 23/11/2014 05:10, Seymore4Head wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 03:59:00 +0630, yyy378
wrote:



On 19/11/2014 13:50, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:00:29 +0630, yyy378
wrote:

I ask an electrician to install several outlets on three breakers. I
found that the electrician uses only five wires in the trunking.
Apparently, there is one grounding, one neutral and three hot wires. The
grounding and neutral wires are shared by three breakers.

How safe is it to do it this way? (Please forget about NEC as this is
not in the US.)

Sounds like 3 phase wye. You see that here in the US but only in
commercial. If they have 3 phase in residential there, that is what
you are looking at.


Thank you. That must be it.

The panel should be mark with it's type.
You could post a picture of the nametag if you are unsure.

I have seen same or similar panels used for single and three phases.

The panel has no writing of any sort. The electricians here don't even
bother to label circuits for light, A/C, water heater, etc.

The panel and breaker are quite different from those used in the US. In
the US, breakers get their power from the two bars in the middle of the
panel. Here, you have to wire one breaker to the next. So, if the wire
connecting breaker #5 and 6 is loose, breakers #6 and down will have no
power.

You could still take a picture of the panel. If it is 3 phase, it
should have 3 large connectors for three phase conductors. It should
then have a large neutral bar for another large neutral conductor and
another buss bar (maybe) for the grounds, depending on how old the
panel is.

On 11/22/2014 07:05 PM, yyy378 wrote:



snip

Oh, I'm in Myanmar. Here, you have single and three phases co-exist in
residential dwellings, sometimes in the same building. And every house
has a generator is the owner can afford one. Blackout happens several
times a day. Every major piece of appliance is protected with a
safeguard which cuts off the current if voltage is too high or too low,
most of the time too low. The voltage is usually around 180 volt.



If you have three phase power then what the electrician did is probably OK.

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:49:52 -0800 (PST), N8N
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:34:25 AM UTC-5, philo* wrote:
On 11/19/2014 08:29 AM, Seymore4Head wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:08:45 -0600, philo wrote:




Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

With three circuits, at least two of them would share the same "hot"
wire with the neutral having to bear (up to) twice the load that it's
rated for. This assumes all wires are of the same gauge and rated for
the same current as the breaker.

It could be OK. It might be a 120V circuit and a 240V circuit. Not
enough info to tell. One breaker would have to be a double pole type.




Except he said "three" circuits and a total of five wires. 3 hot, 1
neutral, I ground


Putting code aside, from a purely safety stand point
it would be safe only if the wires were double the gauge required...
and that /not/ all three shared the same "hot" side.
I rather doubt that's the case.

Unless it is in fact three phase e.g. 120/208 or 277/480 and all hots are on different phases.

nate

So if it's three phase it means that the neutral is never carrying
more than one of the "returns" from any one of the three branches at
the same time?

Even if that's true, isn't it still in some sense more heavily loaded
then the three "hot" legs. Each hot leg is "hot" for one third of the
time whereas the neutral is carrying "return" current ALL the time, at
least if something is plugged in and running on each of the three
legs.

On Monday, November 24, 2014 3:36:45 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
Even if that's true, isn't it still in some sense more heavily loaded
then the three "hot" legs. Each hot leg is "hot" for one third of the
time whereas the neutral is carrying "return" current ALL the time, at
least if something is plugged in and running on each of the three
legs.

No. At least if my memory is correct, it's been a while since I worked in a plant with 3 phase power, but if the loads are balanced I think there is no return current at all in the "neutral." 3P is a way of doing 3 separate circuits that would normally need 6 wires (hot and return for each circuit) with only 3 wires by taking advantage of the phase difference.

Ashton Crusher writes:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:49:52 -0800 (PST), N8N
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:34:25 AM UTC-5, philo* wrote:
On 11/19/2014 08:29 AM, Seymore4Head wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:08:45 -0600, philo wrote:




Who knows, but no matter what country he's in that method would be
incorrect.

With three circuits, at least two of them would share the same "hot"
wire with the neutral having to bear (up to) twice the load that it's
rated for. This assumes all wires are of the same gauge and rated for
the same current as the breaker.

It could be OK. It might be a 120V circuit and a 240V circuit. Not
enough info to tell. One breaker would have to be a double pole type.




Except he said "three" circuits and a total of five wires. 3 hot, 1
neutral, I ground


Putting code aside, from a purely safety stand point
it would be safe only if the wires were double the gauge required...
and that /not/ all three shared the same "hot" side.
I rather doubt that's the case.

Unless it is in fact three phase e.g. 120/208 or 277/480 and all hots are on different phases.

nate

So if it's three phase it means that the neutral is never carrying
more than one of the "returns" from any one of the three branches at
the same time?

Even if that's true, isn't it still in some sense more heavily loaded

Given that each of the hot legs is 120 degrees out of phase with
respect to the others, the current in the grounded conductor (aka neutral) will
sum to zero when all of the hot legs are pulling max current. In the
worst case, where only one leg is pulling max current, the grounded
conductor also conducts max current.