I just realized, when I bought a new gas can to mix a new batch of 50:1
two-stroke oil for my chainsaw, that I have been using TCW-3 two-stroke
oil for the past two years.

https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2948/1...cd716ed0_b.jpg

Drat!

On Friday, October 10, 2014 2:01:33 PM UTC-6, Danny D. wrote:
I just realized, when I bought a new gas can to mix a new batch of 50:1

two-stroke oil for my chainsaw, that I have been using TCW-3 two-stroke

oil for the past two years.



https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2948/1...cd716ed0_b.jpg



Drat!

YOUR CHAINSAW HAS A TWO-STROKE ENGINE. So what is the problem?
=====

Roy wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 14:37:26 -0700:

YOUR CHAINSAW HAS A TWO-STROKE ENGINE. So what is the problem?

The owners manual says *never* use TCW rated oil, and, googling, I find
multiple instances of reputed blown chainsaw engines as a result.

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002210.html

On 10/10/2014 6:58 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Roy wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 14:37:26 -0700:

YOUR CHAINSAW HAS A TWO-STROKE ENGINE. So what is the problem?

The owners manual says *never* use TCW rated oil, and, googling, I find
multiple instances of reputed blown chainsaw engines as a result.

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002210.html


One of the few things I remember from the small
engine course I took, the outboards are water
cooled, and they run cooler. Air cooled like your
saw runs 100 degrees or so hotter. it's very wise
to keep the saw clean of dust after each use, and
try to clean the oil and crud off the cooling fins.
At least, that's what the guy said.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 19:16:49 -0400:

Air cooled like your
saw runs 100 degrees or so hotter. it's very wise
to keep the saw clean of dust after each use,

I do have cleaning solutions in my "kit".
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2948/1...0b5b5fc6_b.jpg

For example, you'll notice the brass wire brush and the air spray to
clean out the oil holes in the bar.

The one thing I need to *remove* from my chainsaw kit is that TCW-3 oil,
in favor of whatever 2-stroke oil is properly used for air-cooled engines.

On 10/11/2014 12:59 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 19:16:49 -0400:

Air cooled like your
saw runs 100 degrees or so hotter. it's very wise
to keep the saw clean of dust after each use,

I do have cleaning solutions in my "kit".
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2948/1...0b5b5fc6_b.jpg

For example, you'll notice the brass wire brush and the air spray to
clean out the oil holes in the bar.

The one thing I need to *remove* from my chainsaw kit is that TCW-3 oil,
in favor of whatever 2-stroke oil is properly used for air-cooled engines.


Saw, not bar. Around the gasoline engine, there
should be some fins for cooling. On my saw, the
starter cord turns the flywheel. The flywheel
has fins to move cooling air over the saw body.
Helps keep the engine cool.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 10/11/2014 12:59 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 19:16:49 -0400:

Air cooled like your
saw runs 100 degrees or so hotter. it's very wise
to keep the saw clean of dust after each use,

I do have cleaning solutions in my "kit".
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2948/1...0b5b5fc6_b.jpg

For example, you'll notice the brass wire brush and the air spray to
clean out the oil holes in the bar.

The one thing I need to *remove* from my chainsaw kit is that TCW-3 oil,
in favor of whatever 2-stroke oil is properly used for air-cooled engines.

Here is article which says much the same,
and has a couple photos:
http://northernwoodlands.org/articles/article/trick

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Friday, October 10, 2014 4:58:36 PM UTC-6, Danny D. wrote:
Roy wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 14:37:26 -0700:



YOUR CHAINSAW HAS A TWO-STROKE ENGINE. So what is the problem?



The owners manual says *never* use TCW rated oil, and, googling, I find

multiple instances of reputed blown chainsaw engines as a result.



http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002210.html

I can appreciate your concern BUT did you see the machines on your oil container? Doesn't that tell you pretty well that it is an ALL-PURPOSE type oil?

Roy wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 17:41:23 -0700:

I can appreciate your concern BUT did you see the machines on your oil
container? Doesn't that tell you pretty well that it is an ALL-PURPOSE
type oil?

That's what I had thought too.

But, only recently, did I notice the line "Never" to use TCW-rated oil
in the owners manual for my 18" Husqvarna 445.

Bear in mind, my first chain saw ever, was a Craftsman (aka Poulon) 18"
chainsaw which died in about a year of just occassional use.

When I had it taken apart, they told me it had "scored pistons".

I had used the exact same oil, and nobody used the chainsaw but me, and I
did NOT abuse it. Yet, it died, all the same, after only about 10 uses.

In fact, the only thing I could save was the black plastic chainsaw
carrier that you see my Husky in, in my photo below.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2944/1...944028f121.jpg

On 10/10/2014 4:01 PM, Danny D. wrote:
I just realized, when I bought a new gas can to mix a new batch of 50:1
two-stroke oil for my chainsaw, that I have been using TCW-3 two-stroke
oil for the past two years.

https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2948/1...cd716ed0_b.jpg

Drat!

I'll admit, I've no idea why is this a
concern. Is that outboard motor oil?

Drat, what?

Incidentally, not seen you in a couple days.
I hope you are healthy and well?

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:14:54 -0400:

I'll admit, I've no idea why is this a concern. Is that outboard motor
oil?

See the manual right next to the oil in the picture in the OP.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2948/1...cd716ed0_b.jpg

It's at the top right corner of the rightmost page.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3940/1...9e7e880d_c.jpg

Under the header "Fuel Handling", and the tag "Two-Stroke Oil".
It says:
- Never use two-stroke oil intended for water-cooled engines,
sometimes referred to as outboard oil (rated TCW).

I hate it when things say not to use something but they don't say why,
but, it's there, so, I've clearly been using the wrong oil.

Googling, I find this ruined engine, reputedly due to the oil:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R2LJNXA...R2LJNXA0WEPVRP

Luckily, mine isn't ruined.

On 10/10/2014 6:56 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:14:54 -0400:

I'll admit, I've no idea why is this a concern. Is that outboard motor
oil?

See the manual right next to the oil in the picture in the OP.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2948/1...cd716ed0_b.jpg

CY: I saw the manual. It is like trying to read a
postage stamp on the bumper of the car in front
of me.


It's at the top right corner of the rightmost page.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3940/1...9e7e880d_c.jpg

Under the header "Fuel Handling", and the tag "Two-Stroke Oil".
It says:
- Never use two-stroke oil intended for water-cooled engines,
sometimes referred to as outboard oil (rated TCW).
CY: Thank you for sending the text large enough
for me to read.


I hate it when things say not to use something but they don't say why,
but, it's there, so, I've clearly been using the wrong oil.


CY: Oops, that's not good.

Googling, I find this ruined engine, reputedly due to the oil:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R2LJNXA...R2LJNXA0WEPVRP

Luckily, mine isn't ruined.

CY: Thank you for providing a bit more
detail, wasn't sure what was your concern.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 19:14:11 -0400:

Luckily, mine isn't ruined.

CY: Thank you for providing a bit more detail, wasn't sure
what was your concern.

My concern was mostly that the prior chainsaw lasted fewer than a dozen
uses before it scored its own pistons to death:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3938/1...0eece5ed_b.jpg

I remember *exactly* what happened to that Craftsman 358.351800
(Poulon) 18" chainsaw the day it died.

All of a sudden, the engine started speeding up faster and faster and
faster. I didn't realize what was happening until it was too late.

After about five or ten minutes of that speeded-up-engine, the engine
never started again. When I had it looked at, they said the pistons were
scored, and that it would cost more than it's worth, to fix.

Maybe it was the oil?
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2949/1...768e79a2_c.jpg

I don't know. But I never abused that saw, and it barely lasted.

I swore I'd never buy another Craftsman gas-motor tool ever again, so,
that's why I bought the Husqvarna to replace it.

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
My concern was mostly that the prior chainsaw lasted fewer than a dozen
uses before it scored its own pistons to death:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3938/1...0eece5ed_b.jpg

I remember *exactly* what happened to that Craftsman 358.351800
(Poulon) 18" chainsaw the day it died.

All of a sudden, the engine started speeding up faster and faster and
faster. I didn't realize what was happening until it was too late.

After about five or ten minutes of that speeded-up-engine, the engine
never started again. When I had it looked at, they said the pistons were
scored, and that it would cost more than it's worth, to fix.

Maybe it was the oil?
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2949/1...768e79a2_c.jpg

I don't know. But I never abused that saw, and it barely lasted.

I swore I'd never buy another Craftsman gas-motor tool ever again, so,
that's why I bought the Husqvarna to replace it.

Not having a boat, I never knew there would be a 2 cycle oil for them and
another for the air cooled engines.
I looked at the Coastal oil you showed a pix of. It has both a boat and
lawnmower on it. Site says it is good for all 2 cycle engines. Maybe it is
and maybe not. Some oils seem to be rated for both. I don't use enough 2
cycle stuff to make any differance in the price of the oil mix. I doubt I
use a gallon of the oil in a year or two. I noticed on some of the oil
bottles say they have addativies in them that act like the Stabil to keep
the gas fresh longer.

I do use the gas without ethanol in it and it seems to make a differance in
how smooth some of the engines run and not gum up if not used for a long
time such as my tiller that only gets used once or twice a year now. While
I use most of the gas up every 2 or 3 months, I put the Stabil in it just to
make sure. Probably not needed, but that way I know if I have some that is
not used for a while it will have a chance of being good.




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 10/11/2014 1:07 AM, Danny D. wrote:



I remember *exactly* what happened to that Craftsman 358.351800
(Poulon) 18" chainsaw the day it died.

All of a sudden, the engine started speeding up faster and faster and
faster. I didn't realize what was happening until it was too late.

No, that is not the problem. You had the same problem that I had with
my Homelite saw. It was cheap enough to buy and I hardly use the saw so
it is good enough. A hundred bucks later, we know that is is NOT "good
enough" but it is a POS.

Get a Stihl and be done with it. You will never need another saw.

Danny D. wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:01:33 +0000:

I just realized, when I bought a new gas can to mix a new batch of 50:1
two-stroke oil for my chainsaw, that I have been using TCW-3 two-stroke
oil for the past two years.

https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2948/1...cd716ed0_b.jpg

UPDATE:
H
I just called Husqvarna back at 800-487-5951 and got a few numbers
to call for my zip code (because they couldn't answer my question).

Calling those numbers, I've found that the RATING for the two-cycle
oil that is used in chainsaws is apparently JASO FD &/or ISO-L-EGD.

Googling, I find this specification for two-stroke oil:
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktio...hmentId=683876

First off, it says TC-W3 obsoletes TC-W & TC-WII (but, we already
know we don't want TCW-anything according to the owners manual).

For the JASO FD spec, we find the following:
1. JASO FA
€“ original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency,
initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
2. JASO FB
€“ increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust
system blocking requirements over FA.
3. JASO FC
€“ lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB,
however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust
system blocking requirements over FB.
4. JASO FD
€“ same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.

For the ISO L-EGD spec, we find it refers right back to JASO:
a. ISO-L-EGB
€“ same tests and requirements as JASO FB.
b. ISO-L-EGC
€“ same tests and slightly higher detergency
requirements (piston varnish) as JASO FC.
c. ISO-L-EGD
€“ same tests and requirements as JASO FD

I'm gonna print this, and tape it to my chainsaw box, along
with the existing chainsaw specification list as a reminder:

Husqvarna 445 18"
narrow kerf bar (aka micro lite, pixel)
0.050in pitch
0.325in gauge
0.025in height
72 drive links
3/16in file (4.8mm)
85°, 30°, 10° filing angles
Use H30, G72, 95VPX072CK chain
Do not use the H72 chain!
8.8oz bar oil per fill
16oz 87AKI gasoline per fill
10ml,1/3oz 2-stroke oil per fill
Only JASO SD or ISO-L-EGD oil
2.5oz oil per gallon gasoline

Danny D. wrote, on Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:53:32 +0000:

Calling those numbers, I've found that the RATING for the two-cycle oil
that is used in chainsaws is apparently JASO FD &/or ISO-L-EGD.

Here's another article, which mentions that JASO stands for the
Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Organization (JASO) and it explains
that JASO SD is the best currently, while ISO-L-EGD is a bit more
international, including American, Japanese and European engine
manufacturers.

http://www.lubetechshop.co.uk/articles.php?tPath=2

gfretwell wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 19:55:43 -0400:

TCW3 is not an oil rated for the temperature a chainsaw operates at.

I guess that means the TCW-rated oil doesn't "cool" the engine as well as
whatever rating it is that I should get.

It is not going to blow up right away but you will see more wear than
you should, in theory.

Makes sense, if the engine isn't being cooled right.

If this is a Homelite or Ryobi, you will probably throw it away for
other reasons before the engine actually wears out tho.

It's a Husqvarna 445, but I think it's the same oil I had used on a
Craftsman (aka Poulon) chainsaw, which ended up siezing on me just after
the warranty period expired.

When they took it apart they said it had scored pistons, and I asked what
I could possibly have done to score the pistons after just about 10 uses.

On 10/10/2014 8:17 PM, Danny D. wrote:
It's a Husqvarna 445, but I think it's the same oil I had used on a
Craftsman (aka Poulon) chainsaw, which ended up siezing on me just after
the warranty period expired.

When they took it apart they said it had scored pistons, and I asked what
I could possibly have done to score the pistons after just about 10 uses.


Please consider pour that gas in your car
(or your wife's car) fuel tank, and buy
some oil that's rated for the saw.

Hope your saw's not badly damaged.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:31:02 -0400:

buy some oil that's rated for the saw.

Serves me right for buying my two-stroke oil at the auto parts store.

Googling for two stroke oil at Home Depot, I find it's about 80 bucks a
gallon, out the door, in quart-sized increments.

HOME DEPOT: $80/gallon
$9 for 16 oz. 2-Cycle 50:1 Motor Oil for Engines
ECHO Model # 6450006, Internet # 100033949, Store SKU # 551696
http://www.homedepot.com/p/ECHO-16-o...0006/100033949

LOWES: $80/gallon
$9 for 16 oz. Pro Mix 16-oz ProMix 2-Cycle Oil
Item #: 188579 | Model #: 54004
http://www.lowes.com/pd_188579-30102...ductId=1159323

On Friday, October 10, 2014 7:10:58 PM UTC-6, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 10 Oct 2014 20:31:02 -0400:



buy some oil that's rated for the saw.



Serves me right for buying my two-stroke oil at the auto parts store.



Googling for two stroke oil at Home Depot, I find it's about 80 bucks a

gallon, out the door, in quart-sized increments.



HOME DEPOT: $80/gallon

$9 for 16 oz. 2-Cycle 50:1 Motor Oil for Engines

ECHO Model # 6450006, Internet # 100033949, Store SKU # 551696

http://www.homedepot.com/p/ECHO-16-o...0006/100033949



LOWES: $80/gallon

$9 for 16 oz. Pro Mix 16-oz ProMix 2-Cycle Oil

Item #: 188579 | Model #: 54004

http://www.lowes.com/pd_188579-30102...ductId=1159323

One other thing Danny is your 50/1 ratio for your mix. I never run that lean...have always gone with 40/1 or even 30/1 in really hot weather. As long as it will start and run the extra oil won't hurt other than the heavy smoke.
====

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 09:59:15 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote:

One other thing Danny is your 50/1 ratio for your mix. I never run that lean...have always gone with 40/1 or even 30/1 in really hot weather. As long as it will start and run the extra oil won't hurt other than the heavy smoke.

Maybe just a fouled spark plug no and then but they can often be
cleaned up, or replaced when needed. Carbon builds up on the top of
the piston too.

Roy wrote, on Sat, 11 Oct 2014 09:59:15 -0700:

One other thing Danny is your 50/1 ratio for your mix.
I never run that lean...have always gone with 40/1 or
even 30/1 in really hot weather. As long as it will
start and run the extra oil won't hurt other than
the heavy smoke.

Actually, truth be told, I do much the same thing.

I keep the small 2-ouncish 40:1 bottles around, and I keep
filling them, and using them with a gallon of 87AKI gas.

I figure, if some is good, more is better (to a point).

On 10/11/2014 12:59 PM, Roy wrote:

One other thing Danny is your 50/1 ratio
for your mix. I never run that lean...have
always gone with 40/1 or even 30/1 in really
hot weather. As long as it will start and run
the extra oil won't hurt other than the heavy smoke.

Fouls plugs sooner, and may carbon the
muffler.

That said, I've never had 32:1 smoke or
do that. I have been using 32:1 for decade
or more.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..