Do pop rivets get old? AKA blind rivets.

I've had two things that needed pop-riveting lately, the bag dispenser
lid from the doggie bathroom that got knocked over, and the extension
from my rear downspout, to take the water away from the house.

I"m 96% sure I used the same alluminum pop-rivets as the last several
times, but this time, the nail part broke off before there was any
appreciable bulging of the "sleeve" part.

I tried 3 rivets on the first task before I just used vice-grips to
squish the sleeve.(It came out perfect.) The downspout seemed to
work okay on the second try, but that's still 4 rivets that failed and
only one that worked.

Do they get brittle with age?


Should I be using steel pop rivets instead? What are the advantage of
them?

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:33:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

Do pop rivets get old? AKA blind rivets.

I've had two things that needed pop-riveting lately, the bag dispenser
lid from the doggie bathroom that got knocked over, and the extension
from my rear downspout, to take the water away from the house.

I"m 96% sure I used the same alluminum pop-rivets as the last several
times, but this time, the nail part broke off before there was any
appreciable bulging of the "sleeve" part.

I tried 3 rivets on the first task before I just used vice-grips to
squish the sleeve.(It came out perfect.) The downspout seemed to
work okay on the second try, but that's still 4 rivets that failed and
only one that worked.

Do they get brittle with age?


Should I be using steel pop rivets instead? What are the advantage of
them?

First question first re your header: Yes, everything does.
Next, do they get brittle with age: No.
Last, should you be using steel rivets: It depends.

The steel rivets are for use in ferrous metals and the aluminum rivets
are for use in nonferrous metals.

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:33:42 -0400, micky
wrote:

Do they get brittle with age?

I used military grade aircraft aluminum rivets on a boat. Glad I did.
They did not fail. This was without a rivet gun and done with hand
tools.

On 9/28/2014 7:33 PM, micky wrote:
Do pop rivets get old? AKA blind rivets.

Yes, and so are you and I.




Do they get brittle with age?

I recently used a couple that I brought home from work in the 60's and
they are perfect. No idea why the metal would change unless it reached
a couple hundred degrees.

Should I be using steel pop rivets instead? What are the advantage of
them?


Use steel in steel, aluminum in most everything else.

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 21:10:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/28/2014 7:33 PM, micky wrote:
Do pop rivets get old? AKA blind rivets.

Yes, and so are you and I.




Do they get brittle with age?

I recently used a couple that I brought home from work in the 60's and
they are perfect. No idea why the metal would change unless it reached
a couple hundred degrees.

Should I be using steel pop rivets instead? What are the advantage of
them?


Use steel in steel, aluminum in most everything else.
Some alloys age harden. Not sure if any are used in pulled rivets,
but solid rivets are available both hard and soft - and soft ones are
only soft for a limitted time. They may need to be annealed before
use.

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 22:02:24 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 21:10:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/28/2014 7:33 PM, micky wrote:
Do pop rivets get old? AKA blind rivets.

Yes, and so are you and I.




Do they get brittle with age?

I recently used a couple that I brought home from work in the 60's and
they are perfect. No idea why the metal would change unless it reached
a couple hundred degrees.

Should I be using steel pop rivets instead? What are the advantage of
them?


Use steel in steel, aluminum in most everything else.

Is that because of electroylsis or something similar?

Some alloys age harden. Not sure if any are used in pulled rivets,
but solid rivets are available both hard and soft - and soft ones are
only soft for a limitted time. They may need to be annealed before
use.

Well, I don't know either if such an alloy was used here, but they were
20 or 30 years old. I've just about run out, and I bought a bigger box
of assorted new ones, also aluminum, so next project I'll try the new
ones too.

Thanks, all.

On 9/29/2014 12:05 PM, micky wrote:

Should I be using steel pop rivets instead? What are the advantage of
them?


Use steel in steel, aluminum in most everything else.

Is that because of electroylsis or something similar?


Actually, you could use aluminum is steel too, but you usually get more
strength with steel and since you are protecting it with paint anyway,
the rivet won't rust.

With aluminum, you don't have to add any additional protective coatings.

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 14:58:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/29/2014 12:05 PM, micky wrote:

Should I be using steel pop rivets instead? What are the advantage of
them?


Use steel in steel, aluminum in most everything else.

Is that because of electroylsis or something similar?


Actually, you could use aluminum is steel too, but you usually get more
strength with steel and since you are protecting it with paint anyway,
the rivet won't rust.

With aluminum, you don't have to add any additional protective coatings.
And alunum and steel are not your only choices. There is also Monel
and stainless steel - and likely others as well.

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:25:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 14:58:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/29/2014 12:05 PM, micky wrote:

Should I be using steel pop rivets instead? What are the advantage of
them?


Use steel in steel, aluminum in most everything else.

Is that because of electroylsis or something similar?


Actually, you could use aluminum is steel too, but you usually get more
strength with steel and since you are protecting it with paint anyway,
the rivet won't rust.

With aluminum, you don't have to add any additional protective coatings.
And alunum and steel are not your only choices. There is also Monel
and stainless steel - and likely others as well.

Thanks, Ed, Clare. Sounds exciting. I wish I had more things to
rivet. I think I hammered down one real rivet in metal shop in the
8th grade.

Real rivets, the kind that were used in the construction of skyscrapers back in the early part of the 1900's were heated until they were white hot before they were hammered. That way they were soft enough to squash under the force of the pneumatic hammering tool. And, as the rivet cooled, it shrunk in length, and it's that shrinking that made for a very tight and strong joint in the I beams that were being connected with those rivets.

I kinda doubt they'd have let school kids loose with white hot steel because of all the possible ways a law suit could result.

On 9/29/2014 9:06 PM, micky wrote:
On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:25:20 -0400, wrote:

With aluminum, you don't have to add any additional protective coatings.
And alunum and steel are not your only choices. There is also Monel
and stainless steel - and likely others as well.

Thanks, Ed, Clare. Sounds exciting. I wish I had more things to
rivet. I think I hammered down one real rivet in metal shop in the
8th grade.

Real men use bang rivets. No wimpy blind pop
rivets for us Real Men.

Old blind rivets, just don't bang like they
used to.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 07:09:17 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 9/29/2014 9:06 PM, micky wrote:
On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:25:20 -0400, wrote:

With aluminum, you don't have to add any additional protective coatings.
And alunum and steel are not your only choices. There is also Monel
and stainless steel - and likely others as well.

Thanks, Ed, Clare. Sounds exciting. I wish I had more things to
rivet. I think I hammered down one real rivet in metal shop in the
8th grade.

Real men use bang rivets. No wimpy blind pop
rivets for us Real Men.

Old blind rivets, just don't bang like they
used to.

One was to connect one piece of downspout to another. If I could have
gotten inside the pipe, I would have. Even a blind rivet had the
advantage that little would be inside the downspout. A screw,which I
was going to use, would have caught leaves and eventually gotten
clogged.

The other was to form one of two hinges on the metal box lid, of the box
that dispenses doggie detritus transport bags. The other "hinge" was
a very small plastic Xmas tree, that went through a hole in the box and
a hole in the lid, but one of them had gotten broken when the whole
thing fell over. I thought there would be truck or car tire-prints,
but there weren't. Not sure what snapped off the
_
_/ \_ metal post.

nestork wrote:
'Bob[_44_ Wrote:
;3290187']Hello,

Anyone know of any Links where there is information regarding
how safe an Ionization type of Smoke Detector is in a youngster's room.

Looked, but couldn't really find anything specific.

Thanks,
Bob

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Bob:

I believe that if there were any risk of radiation damage from the smoke
detector, there would be warning signs on new detectors saying not to
install them in the bedrooms of small children and pregnant women.

However, the smoke detector shouldn't be in the bedroom, it should be
outside the bedroom door, but within 4 feet of the bedroom door when
looking down from space.

That's because, unless the person is a smoker and is in the habit of
smoking in bed, the chances of a fire starting in the bedroom are slim.
So, putting a smoke detector in the bedroom, and then sleeping with the
bedroom door closed is going to prevent that detector from detecting
smoke. By the time it does, your bedroom door is burning and you're
trapped in the bedroom with no escape except the bedroom window, if
there is one.

Better to put the smoke detector outside the bedroom but within 4 feet
of the door. That way if a fire starts in the house at night, the smoke
detector will detect the smoke much earlier, and will still be close
enough to the bedroom to wake up anyone inside.

And, never put a smoke detector closer than 4 inches to the corners
where walls meet ceilings. In a fire, the air in those areas is
relatively stagnant, and the smoke detector in those corner areas will
be slow to detect smoke.

So, I'd move the smoke detector, but not for the reason you were
thinking.

Some local codes require them in bedrooms.

I'm pretty sure I've put my counter next to detectors and found no
radiation, but it was on th fast setting. Longer integration may be needed.

Greg

On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 3:41:07 AM UTC-4, Gz wrote:
nestork wrote:

'Bob[_44_ Wrote:

;3290187']Hello,



Anyone know of any Links where there is information regarding

how safe an Ionization type of Smoke Detector is in a youngster's room..



Looked, but couldn't really find anything specific.



Thanks,

Bob



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Bob:



I believe that if there were any risk of radiation damage from the smoke

detector, there would be warning signs on new detectors saying not to

install them in the bedrooms of small children and pregnant women.



However, the smoke detector shouldn't be in the bedroom, it should be

outside the bedroom door, but within 4 feet of the bedroom door when

looking down from space.



That's because, unless the person is a smoker and is in the habit of

smoking in bed, the chances of a fire starting in the bedroom are slim.

So, putting a smoke detector in the bedroom, and then sleeping with the

bedroom door closed is going to prevent that detector from detecting

smoke. By the time it does, your bedroom door is burning and you're

trapped in the bedroom with no escape except the bedroom window, if

there is one.



Better to put the smoke detector outside the bedroom but within 4 feet

of the door. That way if a fire starts in the house at night, the smoke

detector will detect the smoke much earlier, and will still be close

enough to the bedroom to wake up anyone inside.



And, never put a smoke detector closer than 4 inches to the corners

where walls meet ceilings. In a fire, the air in those areas is

relatively stagnant, and the smoke detector in those corner areas will

be slow to detect smoke.



So, I'd move the smoke detector, but not for the reason you were

thinking.



Some local codes require them in bedrooms.

Not local; NFPA.

nate