I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?

On 7/26/2014 9:15 AM, wrote:
I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?


Depends on the condition of the existing floor, but removing the old can
usually insure a better install.

What is the price difference to get the best job? Problems with the new
floor may take a couple of years to show up too.

On Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:49:18 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/26/2014 9:15 AM, wrote:

I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?





Depends on the condition of the existing floor, but removing the old can

usually insure a better install.



What is the price difference to get the best job? Problems with the new

floor may take a couple of years to show up too.

+1

If the subfloor is sound and the existing linoleum firmly attached,
not coming apart, etc, then tiles can stick fine. If not, then the
subfloor needs to be replaced. Did he ask why they said the subfloor
needs to be replaced? Read the install instructions for the tiles?

wrote:
I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a
vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable
flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and
the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new
vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?

That depends ... If the existing lino is tightly adhered to the subfloor and
there are no weak spots or excessive cracking from subfloor joint movement
you SHOULD be able to lay over it . Are you sure the existing flooring is
"linoleum" ? That product was not in common usage 25 years ago , what you
have down is much more likely to be a "cushion vinyl" product or possibly
one of the Armstrong solid vinyl products . If CV , at least the top/cushion
layers may need to be stripped - this will leave a paper backing layer that
may or may not contain asbestos fibers . It was around that period that
other reinforcing fibers were beint introduced .

--
Snag

On Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:09:10 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
wrote:

I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a

vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable

flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and

the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new

vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?



That depends ... If the existing lino is tightly adhered to the subfloor and

there are no weak spots or excessive cracking from subfloor joint movement

you SHOULD be able to lay over it . Are you sure the existing flooring is

"linoleum" ? That product was not in common usage 25 years ago , what you

have down is much more likely to be a "cushion vinyl" product or possibly

one of the Armstrong solid vinyl products . If CV , at least the top/cushion

layers may need to be stripped - this will leave a paper backing layer that

may or may not contain asbestos fibers . It was around that period that

other reinforcing fibers were beint introduced .


I agree with the above, except that if it's really 25 years old, it shouldn't
have asbestos. Asbestos was banned in the early 80s.

In ,
typed:
I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a
vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable
flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and
the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new
vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?

I think it would be hard to say without more information.

When you say "vinyl tile", do you mean VCT (Vinyl Composition Tile), or do
you mean peel-and-stick vinyl tiles?

It also depends on the condition of the existing linoleum floor and
subfloor. Posting a few photos using a website like http://tinypic.com/
might help.

Another option could include just putting down luan on top of the existing
floor and then tile over that. But, that depends on what is there now, the
condition, etc.

I once had a kitchen that I was re-doing that had an old linoleum floor that
was glued down. It was old and worn, but it was strong and flat, with maybe
one or two seam areas that needed a little attention. I had a local
flooring company install a new one-piece sheet vinyl floor on top of the
existing linoleum and it worked great. They did a little floor
repair/filler routine to prep the small seam area issues, then put the new
floor down with a newer kind of adhesive that sticks but also allows the new
floor to be peeled off at a later date if needed. It came out great.

I wanted a one-piece new floor with no seams, and the room was something
like 12 feet 6 inches by 15 feet. Most sheet vinyl in the U.S. comes in
12-foot wide rolls, so that was a problem. But, I bought a brand of sheet
vinyl called Flexitec (I think) which is made using the metric system and is
4 meters wide instead of 12 feet wide. 4 meters is about 13 feet 2 inches,
so that meant that they could do the kitchen with all one piece and no
seams. Looks good. It is in a rental and it has been there for about 4
years now and still looks brand new. I may have photos somewhere that I
could post, but I am not sure.

You have two basic choices:

1) Lay 1/4" plywood over the linoleum and glue to that.
You can use flooring nails but it's better to use screws
and fill with wood putty. Nails don't sit perfectly flat.
They can show through self-stick or vinyl tile and can
crack vinyl composite tile.

2) Pull up the linoleum. If the underlying subfloor is very
clean you can use it. If not you'll need to replace it or
go over it.

The bottom line is that you need a solid, clean surface
to glue to. Method #1 is fine if there isn't a problem with
raisning the floor about 3/8", in terms of meeting thresholds,
baseboard heat, etc. (Or more if you're using thick tiles.
Typical HD tile will add about 1/8" plus plywood. Some
more expensive vinyl tile might be thicker.)

"TomR" wrote in message
...
| In ,
| typed:
| I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a
| vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable
| flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and
| the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new
| vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?
|
| I think it would be hard to say without more information.
|
| When you say "vinyl tile", do you mean VCT (Vinyl Composition Tile), or do
| you mean peel-and-stick vinyl tiles?
|
| It also depends on the condition of the existing linoleum floor and
| subfloor. Posting a few photos using a website like http://tinypic.com/
| might help.
|
| Another option could include just putting down luan on top of the existing
| floor and then tile over that. But, that depends on what is there now,
the
| condition, etc.
|
| I once had a kitchen that I was re-doing that had an old linoleum floor
that
| was glued down. It was old and worn, but it was strong and flat, with
maybe
| one or two seam areas that needed a little attention. I had a local
| flooring company install a new one-piece sheet vinyl floor on top of the
| existing linoleum and it worked great. They did a little floor
| repair/filler routine to prep the small seam area issues, then put the new
| floor down with a newer kind of adhesive that sticks but also allows the
new
| floor to be peeled off at a later date if needed. It came out great.
|
| I wanted a one-piece new floor with no seams, and the room was something
| like 12 feet 6 inches by 15 feet. Most sheet vinyl in the U.S. comes in
| 12-foot wide rolls, so that was a problem. But, I bought a brand of sheet
| vinyl called Flexitec (I think) which is made using the metric system and
is
| 4 meters wide instead of 12 feet wide. 4 meters is about 13 feet 2
inches,
| so that meant that they could do the kitchen with all one piece and no
| seams. Looks good. It is in a rental and it has been there for about 4
| years now and still looks brand new. I may have photos somewhere that I
| could post, but I am not sure.
|
|

On Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:29:29 AM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:
You have two basic choices:



1) Lay 1/4" plywood over the linoleum and glue to that.

You can use flooring nails but it's better to use screws

and fill with wood putty. Nails don't sit perfectly flat.

They can show through self-stick or vinyl tile and can

crack vinyl composite tile.



2) Pull up the linoleum. If the underlying subfloor is very

clean you can use it. If not you'll need to replace it or

go over it.



The bottom line is that you need a solid, clean surface

to glue to.

And why isn't existing linoleum with an existing subfloor a solid,
clean surface that vinyl sheet or tiles can be applied directly to?

"Mayayana" wrote in
:

You have two basic choices:

1) Lay 1/4" plywood over the linoleum and glue to that.
You can use flooring nails but it's better to use screws
and fill with wood putty. Nails don't sit perfectly flat.
They can show through self-stick or vinyl tile and can
crack vinyl composite tile.

"IF" a new surface is required.

Not luan, not 1/4 plywood. Use Ultraply.
http://www.davidcmaguire.com/AF3/AF3/UltraPly.html

Not wood putty. Use skimcoat for screw heads and seams. Sandable as well.
http://www.wwhenry.com/content.aspx?...cID=83&pID=145



2) Pull up the linoleum. If the underlying subfloor is very
clean you can use it. If not you'll need to replace it or
go over it.

The bottom line is that you need a solid, clean surface
to glue to. Method #1 is fine if there isn't a problem with
raisning the floor about 3/8", in terms of meeting thresholds,
baseboard heat, etc. (Or more if you're using thick tiles.
Typical HD tile will add about 1/8" plus plywood. Some
more expensive vinyl tile might be thicker.)

"TomR" wrote in message
...
| In ,
| typed:
| I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen
| a vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable
| flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and
| the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new
| vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?
|
| I think it would be hard to say without more information.
|
| When you say "vinyl tile", do you mean VCT (Vinyl Composition Tile),
| or do you mean peel-and-stick vinyl tiles?
|
| It also depends on the condition of the existing linoleum floor and
| subfloor. Posting a few photos using a website like
| http://tinypic.com/ might help.
|
| Another option could include just putting down luan on top of the
| existing floor and then tile over that. But, that depends on what is
| there now,
the
| condition, etc.
|
| I once had a kitchen that I was re-doing that had an old linoleum
| floor
that
| was glued down. It was old and worn, but it was strong and flat,
| with
maybe
| one or two seam areas that needed a little attention. I had a local
| flooring company install a new one-piece sheet vinyl floor on top of
| the existing linoleum and it worked great. They did a little floor
| repair/filler routine to prep the small seam area issues, then put
| the new floor down with a newer kind of adhesive that sticks but also
| allows the
new
| floor to be peeled off at a later date if needed. It came out great.
|
| I wanted a one-piece new floor with no seams, and the room was
| something like 12 feet 6 inches by 15 feet. Most sheet vinyl in the
| U.S. comes in 12-foot wide rolls, so that was a problem. But, I
| bought a brand of sheet vinyl called Flexitec (I think) which is made
| using the metric system and
is
| 4 meters wide instead of 12 feet wide. 4 meters is about 13 feet 2
inches,
| so that meant that they could do the kitchen with all one piece and
| no seams. Looks good. It is in a rental and it has been there for
| about 4 years now and still looks brand new. I may have photos
| somewhere that I could post, but I am not sure.
|
|

| Not luan, not 1/4 plywood. Use Ultraply.
| http://www.davidcmaguire.com/AF3/AF3/UltraPly.html
|

Looks good. In some cases standard plywood can have
voids, which *could possibly* result in a puncture if a
spike heel hits it just right. But if decent plywood is
available I don't see the need for specialty products.
I also wonder about the availability of such a product.
I've never noticed it before. Do you buy it at a local
lumber yard or HD?

"Mayayana" wrote in news:lr2tui$eio$1@dont-
email.me:

| Not luan, not 1/4 plywood. Use Ultraply.
| http://www.davidcmaguire.com/AF3/AF3/UltraPly.html
|

Looks good. In some cases standard plywood can have
voids, which *could possibly* result in a puncture if a
spike heel hits it just right. But if decent plywood is
available I don't see the need for specialty products.
I also wonder about the availability of such a product.
I've never noticed it before. Do you buy it at a local
lumber yard or HD?




We sell it at the lumber yard. Ultraply is a very hard surface.

Walk on Ultraply with those spike heals and it's just click click click
with no evidence of marks. Walk on AC pine, fir ply or luan with spikes and
I bet you'll see traces of the trail...especially if it's one of those
Walmart babes wearing them insert Mr Yuk sticker here.

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 09:17:57 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Not luan, not 1/4 plywood. Use Ultraply.
| http://www.davidcmaguire.com/AF3/AF3/UltraPly.html
|

Looks good. In some cases standard plywood can have
voids, which *could possibly* result in a puncture if a
spike heel hits it just right. But if decent plywood is
available I don't see the need for specialty products.
I also wonder about the availability of such a product.
I've never noticed it before. Do you buy it at a local
lumber yard or HD?

Underlayment grade luan OR poplar ply is zero void. That's what makes
it "underlayment grade" It also uses waterresistant or waterproof
glue.

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:11:09 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

In ,
typed:
I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a
vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable
flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and
the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new
vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?

I think it would be hard to say without more information.

When you say "vinyl tile", do you mean VCT (Vinyl Composition Tile), or do
you mean peel-and-stick vinyl tiles?

It also depends on the condition of the existing linoleum floor and
subfloor. Posting a few photos using a website like http://tinypic.com/
might help.

Another option could include just putting down luan on top of the existing
floor and then tile over that. But, that depends on what is there now, the
condition, etc.

I once had a kitchen that I was re-doing that had an old linoleum floor that
was glued down. It was old and worn, but it was strong and flat, with maybe
one or two seam areas that needed a little attention. I had a local
flooring company install a new one-piece sheet vinyl floor on top of the
existing linoleum and it worked great. They did a little floor
repair/filler routine to prep the small seam area issues, then put the new
floor down with a newer kind of adhesive that sticks but also allows the new
floor to be peeled off at a later date if needed. It came out great.

Our kitchen is "floating" solid vinyl - perimeter glued only. It has
one "chemical welded" seam

I wanted a one-piece new floor with no seams, and the room was something
like 12 feet 6 inches by 15 feet. Most sheet vinyl in the U.S. comes in
12-foot wide rolls, so that was a problem. But, I bought a brand of sheet
vinyl called Flexitec (I think) which is made using the metric system and is
4 meters wide instead of 12 feet wide. 4 meters is about 13 feet 2 inches,
so that meant that they could do the kitchen with all one piece and no
seams. Looks good. It is in a rental and it has been there for about 4
years now and still looks brand new. I may have photos somewhere that I
could post, but I am not sure.

On 07/26/2014 08:15 AM, wrote:
I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?




If you want it done right, have the old stuff removed.

I had my kitchen re-done 25 years ago and the salesman said the new
floor could be placed right over the old.

When the installed got here he refused to do it that way and removed the
old floor and used leveling compound to get the surface virtually perfect.

Now 25 years later the floor is still in perfect condition and am glad
it was done properly. The dealer did *not* pass on the additional
charges to me.

In ,
philo typed:
On 07/26/2014 08:15 AM, wrote:
I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a
vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable
flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and
the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new
vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?

If you want it done right, have the old stuff removed.

I had my kitchen re-done 25 years ago and the salesman said the new
floor could be placed right over the old.

When the installed got here he refused to do it that way and removed
the old floor and used leveling compound to get the surface virtually
perfect.
Now 25 years later the floor is still in perfect condition and am glad
it was done properly. The dealer did *not* pass on the additional
charges to me.

In my case, taking up the old linoleum floor would have been a big project
and would have caused problems and a big mess. That's because the old
linoleum was glued down permanently, so taking it up would have left a rough
and messed up surface to work with. And, I then would probably have needed
to re-do or cover over the subfloor with new plywood. So, I was better off
leaving the original linoleum in place and putting the new floor on top of
that. Each situation is different, and it sounds like your old floor was
able to be taken up without causing any significant additional problems
other than needing the application of a little leveling compound.

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 06:15:11 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?

Did you ask why the "plywood subfloor" needed replacement; how could
they tell with the floor cover still in tact?

On 07/26/2014 5:34 PM, Oren wrote:
....

Did you ask why the "plywood subfloor" needed replacement; how could
they tell with the floor cover still in tact?

It's far quicker for them than fixing removing the lino are resurfacing
-- and, ergo, cheaper for the homeowner.

--

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 17:48:23 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 07/26/2014 5:34 PM, Oren wrote:
...

Did you ask why the "plywood subfloor" needed replacement; how could
they tell with the floor cover still in tact?

It's far quicker for them than fixing removing the lino are resurfacing
-- and, ergo, cheaper for the homeowner.

Had they said, we'll put down 1/4 inch laun perpendicular to the
current sub floor, over the existing flooring, install the new tiles,
I could accept. OP implies they want to R&R what is there. I'm not
certain what the OP is saying.

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 16:01:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 17:48:23 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 07/26/2014 5:34 PM, Oren wrote:
...

Did you ask why the "plywood subfloor" needed replacement; how could
they tell with the floor cover still in tact?

It's far quicker for them than fixing removing the lino are resurfacing
-- and, ergo, cheaper for the homeowner.

Had they said, we'll put down 1/4 inch laun perpendicular to the
current sub floor, over the existing flooring, install the new tiles,
I could accept. OP implies they want to R&R what is there. I'm not
certain what the OP is saying.
Doing what you are suggesting will raise the floor surface almost
half an inch, which in many cases would be unacceptable (at least to
me)

On 07/26/2014 6:01 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 17:48:23 -0500, wrote:

On 07/26/2014 5:34 PM, Oren wrote:
...

Did you ask why the "plywood subfloor" needed replacement; how could
they tell with the floor cover still in tact?

It's far quicker for them than fixing removing the lino are resurfacing
-- and, ergo, cheaper for the homeowner.

Had they said, we'll put down 1/4 inch laun perpendicular to the
current sub floor, over the existing flooring, install the new tiles,
I could accept. OP implies they want to R&R what is there. I'm not
certain what the OP is saying.

Besides the obvious as another notes of raising the floor level,
depending on the condition it may not be adequate isolation from the
existing and "show-thru" will occur with time if not immediately...

Spent several yearly summers w/ "my uncle the Armstrong
dealer/remodeler" while in school as (lowly-paid) summer work and saw
much during that time; many of same situation as OP outlines where
wasn't replaced by previous or the thin overlay telegraphed after a
relatively short time...

--

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:34:06 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 06:15:11 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?

Did you ask why the "plywood subfloor" needed replacement; how could
they tell with the floor cover still in tact?
A flooring expert will know with one look what kind of old floor is
installed, and will have had lots of experience removing/replacing it
so will know, with virtual certainty, what is going to be involved. It
is almost allways possible to salvage the subfloor, but it is seldom
economically feasible. Takes more labour and expense to salvage the
old than to replace.

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 06:15:11 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen a vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?
depends on the linoleum and the tile. If the linoleum is textured the
texture will "telegraph" though certain tiles. Is the tile self
adhesive? The type of adhesive used may or may not stick to the
existing flooring reliably. Most self adhesive tiles are pretty fussy,
and some bulk adhesives will work, some won't.

Do the job RIGHT, so you only have to do the job ONCE, and can be proud of the results. After all done right the job should last perhaps 20 years...

If you cut corners by not removing the old flooring, and 2 years later the new flooring begins to detoriate, will they warranty their now 2 year old work

Plus doing the cheap job will likely void all of the manufacturers warranty, since as far as I know, they all state clearly remove all the old....

On 7/26/2014 8:15 AM, wrote:

I have a linoleum floor that is probably 25 years old. I've chosen
a vinyl tile to replace it and have three estimates from reputable
flooring stores. Two of them say the Lino needs to be pulled up and
the plywood subfloor replaced. The third says they can put the new
vinyl over the existing floor. Who is correct?


If the linoleum and subfloor are in sound condition there's no reason
to remove them. However, you will have to strip every bit of wax and
crud off the linoleum. The seams should be tight, but for insurance,
you may want to drive a few nails along the seams to ensure it. If
it's adhesive-backed tile, don't rely on just that adhesive. Purchase
some proper adhesive and use that during the install.

In 1983 we installed a peel-and-stick Armstrong vinyl tile floor in
our kitchen over 1954-installed linoleum using the above process.
Still have the floor, and the vinyl is finally starting to show its
age. Install it right, care for it right, and it'll last longer than
you'd expect.